No such luck, but I did find a recent post by Dave Harvey, that included the following statement:

The function fulfilled by men following in Paul’s (and Timothy’s, and Silas’s, and Epaphras’s, etc.) footsteps is primarily missiological, not ecclesiological. The accent rests on gospel mission, not church maintenance. And the specific expression of that mission is church planting. “[Paul’s] more functional understanding of apostleship,” says Gordon Fee, “would certainly have its modern counterparts in those who found and lead churches in unevangelized areas.”

Is this a new view, or have I not been paying attention?

Mark Lauterbach, the senior pastor who was de-gifted and then re-gifted, shared his heart with the congregation after his Sunday morning sermon. There was another meeting last night, but I haven’t received any details yet.

I’m told that after his sermon, Mark asked the congregation to forgive him. He publicly confessed to the sins of pride and control, specifically, that he had refused input from the congregation, and confessed that was wrong for the pastors to decide in major issues themselves, and then inform the congregation.

Mark also stated that he had confused control for good leadership, and had sought to run things himself, instead of seeing others gifts and letting them walk in their gifting. He said that he had assumed too much authority.

The other pastor on staff confessed to ignoring input from the congregation regarding his responsibilities.

As an aside, here’s Mark’s latest blog post:

This is a repost from Feb of last year. Some links are dead, because I’m nicer than I used to be. Hard to believe, I know…

I feel that this is timely because MCL’s issues are polity issues. The members are waiting to see what actions the leaders will take. It doesn’t seem very “joint heir-like” to me. MCL is not their church. You are not their people. It is clear that pastors in SGM have more authority than is granted by Scripture. This extra Biblical view of pastoral authority informs their polity. “Don’t talk to each other, talk to us”. When did Paul ever make such a statement? To whom were the epistles written to? The churches. Elders are rarely mentioned in the letters to the churches.

In the the next “we have decided” statement statement delivered to MLC, the “we” should refer to all of you. You are not children.

_______________________

We have a lot of new readers. It’s obviously impossible to read every post written since June of 08, so many new guests might form an opinion of this blog based on the topic at hand.

I left SGM in June of 06 because of their polity. I started this blog in June of 08 because of their polity.

POLITY IS IMPORTANT. ALL of SGM’s problems flow from their unorthodox, unique-to-SGM polity. It informs their Eccesiology, Missiology, and is the reason for their truncated Gospel, as their polity only allows them to hear their own voice. Their polity has placed them on the outer fringe of orthodoxy, forcing them to use out of context or partial quotes to give the impression that Biblical scholars support their fringe view.

In the recent SGC Chesapeake fiasco, both Keith and Gene appealed to SGM’s polity statement, rather than to Scripture. Very Roman, if you ask me.

By all means, read the SGM polity statement. Then, with the statement in hand, please read what we’ve had to say about SGM’s polity, and our lengthy review of their polity statement.

I’ve tried to find everything we’ve said about SGM polity and link to it in this post.

This gets a little tricky. Click on the words in green below to read a post, then click on the home tab to return here to click on the next post.

Enjoy!

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/06/14/jerry-bridges-on-the-controller/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/06/20/responding-to-leadership-in-sgm/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/06/28/trust-your-leaders/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/06/26/they-stand-in-the-very-stead-of-god/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/07/01/more-responsibilities-of-the-sheep/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/07/10/jesus-on-leadership/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/07/15/sgm-polity/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/07/19/mick-jagger-and-cj-mahaney-on-leadership/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/07/21/under-their-thumb/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/06/the-fruit-of-good-pastoring/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/24/advice-to-the-lone-ranger/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/26/more-recommendations-for-cj/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/28/bible-doctrine-tastes-great-less-filling-burp/

The good stuff starts here….

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/09/02/polity-episode-1-an-introduction-to-dave-harveys-phantom-menace/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/09/04/sovereign-grace-ministries-on-elders/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/09/08/sovereign-grace-ministries-on-elders-2/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/09/10/polity-episode-2-dave-harveys-quote-in-the-cloned-quote-wars/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/09/17/polity-episode-3-dave-harveys-big-a-little-a-and-the-revenge-of-the-systh/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/09/19/more-grudem-on-polity-and-apostles/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/09/26/polity-episode-4-a-flimsy-hope-with-dave-harvey-a-new-hope-in-jesus-christ/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/01/missiology-part-1-entering-the-minefield-of-the-world/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/08/missiology-part-2-apostles-epistles-and-missions-oh-my/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/15/missiology-part-3-wayne-grudems-ministers-of-mercy-and-dave-harveys-apostles-in-authority/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/11/04/why-sovereign-grace-ministries-is-not-a-cult-the-exorcist-and-other-lighthearted-election-day-thoughts/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/12/12/uh-oh-steve-shank-is-here/

http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/11/what-to-expect/Polity Scholity Revisited
]]> http://sgmrefuge.com/2010/01/23/polity-schmolity-revisited/feed/ 41 http://sgmrefuge.com/2010/01/21/danny-and-benny-are-humble/ http://sgmrefuge.com/2010/01/21/danny-and-benny-are-humble/#comments Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:29:11 +0000 Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=341 You’ve received Danny’s email. Read points 5 and 6 very carefully. Notice what the evaluation team will and will not address.

“There are several issues in the list above that the rest of the leadership team would agree needs to be pursued…”

“However, there is significant disagreement with the other points listed…”

If the members I’ve communicated with are in any way indicative of the general feeling among the membership, it seems that “there is significant disagreement” between the leadership team and the members of MLC.

Post by Dorothy is Leaving Oz on Jan 7:

Grace and Peace,

Jim and Carole

Hark the herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!
Peace on earth and mercy mild
God and sinners reconciled”
Joyful, all ye nations rise
Join the triumph of the skies
With the angelic host proclaim:
“Christ is born in Bethlehem”
Hark! The herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!”
Christ by highest heav’n adored
Christ the everlasting Lord!
Late in time behold Him come
Offspring of a Virgin’s womb
Veiled in flesh the Godhead see
Hail the incarnate Deity
Pleased as man with man to dwell
Jesus, our Emmanuel
Hark! The herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!”
Hail the heav’n-born Prince of Peace!
Hail the Son of Righteousness!
Light and life to all He brings
Ris’n with healing in His wings
Mild He lays His glory by
Born that man no more may die
Born to raise the sons of earth
Born to give them second birth
Hark! The herald angels sing
“Glory to the newborn King!”

Now, the very publicly honored new Sr P rides in on his white horse to save the day.

Insiders are aware that this man is potentially dangerous, and some early reports have come in that Glynn’s defective counseling MO hasn’t changed, and the good people of N. Denver are now the unfortunate recipients of Glynn’s “wisdom”.

Would anyone from the wild west like to comment?

1. You’ve noticed a pattern of people leaving the fellowship, but don’t ask your pastor about it and don’t delve into the reasons behind the exits.
2. You’ve seen your pastor act in retribution for slights or criticism by removing people from ministries, publicly or privately shaming them or refusing to listen to them.
3. You excuse your pastor’s wrong behavior: he’s young, he doesn’t understand the people who are unhappy, he has a little trouble relating to people, he’ll grow out of it, I’m probably not seeing the whole picture, God will show him his weaknesses and he’ll handle things better soon.
4. You find yourself blaming victims. You justify harsh behavior by your pastor by focusing on the sins of those who are shamed or shunned or criticized or punished.
5. You feel that to protect the name of Christ in your community you need to keep secret the alarming behavior by your pastor or leaders in the church.
6. You feel it’s your duty to think the best of your pastor, no matter what charges are brought against him, but you don’t extend the same courtesy to those who feel they’ve been abused or harmed.
7. You feel it’s okay for your pastor to build up your church by cutting down other churches with “inferior” doctrines or practices, but it’s not okay for anyone to question decisions by church leaders if it looks like criticism.
8. You enjoy being flattered by your pastor and seek to please him often. You spend a lot of time in church flattering and being flattered.
9. You fear being criticized by your pastor or having your special ministry taken away.
10. You’ve seen your pastor flatter those he can use and then later turn on them.
11. You would feel uncomfortable asking to see financial records of the church, and you just assume that they are being used in a godly manner.
12. You feel constantly pressured to help more in church or to give more, or both.
13. Going to church often seems like a burden, but you don’t want anyone to know you feel that way.
14. You have criticized other churches or individuals with your pastor.
15. You like the feeling of being in the “inner circle,” and you feel you have the pastor’s confidence.
16. You feel superior to Christians who don’t witness as much as you, or who don’t practice their faith as well as you, or who don’t emphasize certain doctrines like you do.
17. You feel that no one quite understands the scriptures, delivers sermons or reaches out to the weak and poor like your pastor does.
18. You spend much time defending your pastor, either in your own mind or to others.
19. You don’t like to admit it, but you often spend more time thinking (whether positively, negatively or both) about your pastor or leaders than you do about God.
20. You are exhausted.

http://sgmrefuge.mofuse.mobi/

…just temporarily. Going away for a week to celebrate our 30th anniversary (God had been way too good to me!)

I’ve closed comments, as I’ve heard the internet is full of crazy people. 

See ya in a week or so.

This is a must read.

Part 1

Part 2

“I just want to recommend a good book called A Scandalous Freedom by Steve Brown. He is reformed, but he just seems so…so…FREE!! And I love his quotes. Here are some:

“When the requirement for acceptance in any particular group is to think certain thoughts, to act in certain ways, ad to fit in certain molds – and we don’t hink or act that way or fit the mold- we tend to fake it. We put on a mask that says, “I’m just like you. Now will you please love me and accept me?”

“The greatest tragedy of the church is that, in many cases, the most dishonest hour of the week is the hour we spend at church.”

“I’m a Presybeterian, and we believe in a doctine called ‘radical and pervasive depravity.’ If we find any depravity, however, we kick you out!” (I love that one – or you could say instead of kicking out, how ’bout beating up?).

“Freedom threatens religious people because it takes away their leverage and makes it more difficult for them to maintain control.””

Dennis posted a link to Steve Brown’s Scandalous Freedom podcast.

I’ve posted the link in the sidebar and can’t think of a better book to recommend to our readers.

Listen here

Some updates for those who are interested…

I’ve been afraid to upgrade WordPress, as I’ve broken the blog before. We were still using the original version we launched with over a year ago. There’s been a number of attack warnings in the blogosphere, telling people like me to upgrade NOW. I paid someone to do it for me, and hopefully, things will load faster and fewer comments will go in to moderation. Hopefully…

I haven’t posted stats since March, and thought what the hey… someone might be interested. Here’s what I find really cool-there are rules of blogging. Best practices. Post on a regular basis, interact with commenters, welcome new commenters, read your own blog, etc. I don’t have time to be a “good blogger”, yet our numbers are still strong. It’s very encouraging to start something that continues without your involvement. In our worst month of the year we’re read by over 32K individuals? Crazy stuff…

Here are the stats for the last 5 months, in pageview/unique visitor format.

April-127721/41961

May-117487/38990

June-102474/36608

July-93202/32488

August-118811/38024

2) I think that Frank Viola’s Organic Church books are helpful. not perfect, but helpful. I strongly disagree with the general premise of his last book, From Eternity to Here, but that wasn’t an Organic Church book. His next book is “Finding Organic Church: A Comprehensive Guide to Starting and Sustaining Authentic Christian Communities”. Frank has requested that everyone who is interested order from Amazon on September 1, as this boosts Amazon ratings, drawing attention to the topic. I’m in…

Remember this post? The whole deal smelled like a dead fish then, and now it’s belly up.

Proof that you can use all the right words and still be completely man centered.

Little kingdoms of little men. They all fall down.

You did the right thing, Brent.

I see this as SGM’s system working, although very slowing in this case. I’m sketchy on the details, but I hope that SOMEONE in SGM’s leadership followed Paul’s instructions to Timothy. (1 Tim 5:19-20)

UPDATE-July 28.

1.”I told you so” is not accurate, as Brent will continue to be a member of Grace, which is a SGM church, therefore, he did not “leave SGM”, but has resigned as a pastor.

2. I’m told that 1 Tim 5:19-20 was followed.

3. I’m told that “moving slowing” on SGM’s part is an evidence of reform. While leaders within SGM have been appealing to Brent for some time, SGM did not become officially involved until the leadership team of Grace appealed to SGM for help. After the appeal was made, they actually moved quite quickly, given the scope of the task before them. They interviewed a large number of people, and at the end of their evaluation, they recommended that Brent resign. Brent accepted their recommendation.

I promised our readers over a year ago that I would expose abuse of authority within SGM. I promised that I would (loudly) call for reform. I also promised our readers that should reform occur, I would chronicle evidence of reform with a grateful heart.

I commend the local leadership of Grace, the SGM pastors who were involved in this endeavor, and I commend Brent for doing the right thing.

I can only see this as one of many very positive signs of change within SGM. God is good!

There is no easy answer to this question, so I normally tailor my response to the one asking. Clocked out Dad who has no interest in being the primary educator in your children’s spiritual life? Just pay the pros to do it for you. For a meager 10% of your annual salary, your children can benefit from 1st Whatever’s wonderful children’s ministry. Don’t worry about the teens, as they’re sure to have an uber-cool youth pastor who can teach your teens how uber-cool it is to be a Christian. Ignore the verified data available about how “successful” these programs are, just pay your dues and leave the heavy lifting to the pros.

An additional benefit will be that you won’t even have to think for yourself. Just show up and hear the 45 minute lecture, prepared just for you. You know, just like the Christians in the new testament did.

Sadly, I think this is the right answer for the majority of American Christians. Pay your dues, enjoy the “services” provided.

Food for thought-why does 1 Cor 14, which is the most descriptive (and prescriptive) example we have in Scripture of an assembly of believers bear no resemblance to what most of us do every Sunday?

More food for thought-we are clearly told in Hebrews 10:25 that we must gather together. How are we supposed to fulfill the reason we gather together (Hebrews 10:24) while we are looking at the back of each other’s heads while listening to a professional speaker give a lecture?

(Listen to the audio)