I think they are a great idea! I was just thinking about where house churches are around here in my area. I wonder how you can find one especially if all your “friends” aren’t really friends anymore.
Thank you for bringing this subject to the fore; we are having our first House Church meeting in our home this Saturday.
We have been faithful SGM members for 22yrs up to our recent departure. I have been researching the topic of “house church”, it’s support in scripture and church history vs. the traditional North American Institutional Church model.
I have much to say, however, look forward to the discussion.
When I left Mormonism, I wanted to find the “best” church, the “right” church.
It was part of the reason I loved being a Mormon: being “right,” being a part of the “correct” church, the most “biblical” church.
Now, I realize that house churches, mega-churches, country churches, church plants…all are ways the Father molds his children, all are ways we join together to worship and grow.
Be cautious, as you recover from the toxicity of SGM, not to suspect that there is ony “one” way to be joined together in covenant. Find the place that is best for you, a place of purity and love and grace.
Apelogeito
–I’m so excited to hear of your freedom! Breathe the free air!
I only have one question about the topic. Everyone feel free to help me with this thought. How does evangelism and spreading the good news work in a house church format? Most of the sweet folks I know that have been involved are the same 12-20 people with no change in numbers. How do you spread the gospel and see the home church grow if it has a “us 4 and no more” mindset? I certainly see how burnt folks can go in this direction. It seem safe and relational. What are y all’s thought on this? Jim thanks for the links. I will read up as well!
Since i thought about starting one when i left SGM i will give a brief thought on home churches. It is what our forefathers did the first 200 hundred years of Christianity. Evangelism was simple. christians modeled something so radically different the people you knew were going to come and get saved or reject. also, they didn’t build temples or buildings,but when they got large the started meeting in more homes spreading from area to area. Highly effective since it changed the world. Alas, in the 300′s paganism entered the church through the Emperor Constantine and we have been suffering ever since. Nevertheless, i am in a place that would not be my natural setting for fellowship and being blessed beyond my wildest dreams-go figure!!!
Ageless, can you contact me by inbox and update me on the exodus???
I don’t want to get into a whole debate on the whole house church thing, however in response to Azaziah, the statement that it is what our forefathers did for the first 200 years is semi-true, but misleading.
When the church started they did meet in temples and synagogues, they left and started meeting in houses when they were kicked out and persecuted. Of course during times of persucution churches met in houses, that is still the case today where churches are in houses in countries where it is illegal to have church. So we would expect that for most of the early church time until Constantine the church met in houses becuase they had to – they were under persecution. To say that it is a model for how we are suppose to hold church today in America igonores the historical realities, and really draws on an example that is not relevant.
Presbyterian is correct in his (her) assessment of how and why the early church met and how they grew. Someday (maybe in the near future) Christians in this country will be forced to meet in home churches because, like in Russia under Communism, all building were turned into museums or burnt to the ground. I think many from SGM might find Home Church (aka Home Group) to be an interesting alternative. No overlording leaders, BUT – I agree with agelessdebutnante. Of all the friends I have in home churches, they all still meet with the small little group they started with many years ago.
It would be interesting to here from a persecuted Christian in Cuba or China that is FORCED underground and hear if they would prefer to stay hidden or jump at the chance to meet out in the open in a building (called a Church) with other Christians.
We are in a great place now after leaving Metro Life. We are the only building in a small community in East Orlando, and people from the community drop in all the time because “we just moved here and are looking for a church” or “we just started a family and figured that we wanted to start going back to church again” or “I saw the building and wanted to know what it was all about” I have heard these 3 and many more statements that say one thing to me – God is using the building in this community to draw people to Him, and we get the opportunity to share the Gospel with them, sometimes even, by opening our mouths.
I think that everyone who gathers in a building on Sundays should continue to do so, if they feel that is what God wants them to do. As someone who sees the advantages of home church, I have no beef with first whatever on the corner.
The question of evangelism has been asked.
My personal position on this is, most evangelism happens where we live. That is, in the market place, the town square, out in the world where we live.
True, the Gospel is to be preached from the pulpit too, but I always thought that the Gospel is preached in our lives, as we interact with the world (that we are in, but not of.)
The house church concept creates an environment whereby, unless visitors are invited in, evangelism is conducted outside, so to speak.
It would merely shift most of the evangelism to the outside of the “meeting place” walls.
Personally, house churches can be great alternative to the Americanized institutional church. (Some have called it “Churchianity.”)
The evangelism question is indicative of the one of reasons 5 million of us (in the US) have “left the building”.
Defender has touched on this-evangelism should be a part of every believer’s life. So many American’s want to pay the pros, and have them do the work. “Feed” me, teach my kids, keep my teens out of trouble, or better yet, get them ‘fired up’ about God, preach the Gospel to the friends I invite to church.
You have elders all around you, and you might be one. We all need “equipping”, and I’d encourage everyone to glean from the wisdom of the elders in your midst. Read the qualifications in Tim and Titus, and do some deep thinking. I’ll bet you’ll realize that Paul is describing someone you know.
Been thru the house church thing. No staff, no building, no “stuff”. Lots of hyper-spirituality and wheel-spinning. I’ll never get sucked into that again.
I was part of a house church for three years. It was wonderful. Yet, I knew of another house church in the area that became very controlling. Women had to wear dresses, head coverings, etc. The leaven can be found when any believers meet, whether in a building or in a home. It still has to be all about following Jesus.
There is more opportunity for believers to use their gifts to edify the Body in a small group. Having an Elder or two is important. Like Jim said, they will be easily identified. Our elder never had to say much. He just oversaw things, didn’t rule over anyone. We all respected his wisdom and age, and knew he was there to watch over us in a good way. It was an incredible experience.
As for evangelism, there wasn’t much done in our SGM church. I am convinced that we share the Lord with people in our lives. If they want to know Him, we help raise them to maturity. It isn’t complicated. A house church should grow and split into more house churches if people are sharing the Lord in their every day lives. Ours disolved because we moved to CO, but I will always be grafeful for the experience.
The Missus,
“Been thru the house church thing. No staff, no building, no “stuff”. Lots of hyper-spirituality and wheel-spinning. I’ll never get sucked into that again. ”
Takes me back to “Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it.”
We need to bloom where God plants us. That’s for sure.
Jim, you are correct, so many people want to, as you said, “let the pros do it” and what do we end up with? Pros (Like CJ) running our churches.
I have been reading this blog for over a week now; first, I apologize for not placing my comments in the right thread. I have had difficulty navigating the site…I’d like to tell my story ( at this point it is on going). It is not by accident that I found this site. It has been the faithfulness of a loving and gracious God that I found it! To show me….that I’m not a) losing my mind! b) my questions are GOOD ones and c) there may be hope.
I don’t think I have ever felt so lost in my life.
Please place this post where it belongs and someone please guide me in this site…would like very much to chat with you guys!
God bless you all!
needin hope
Welcome to the site. So many of us know exactly what you mean by the feeling that you’re losing your mind. But you’re not! When people are feeling that way it is most likely because they are seeing something clearly but those around them are acting like what is being seen is not there or that it is not as you see it. Trust the Holy Spirit to guide you. He gave you a gut to listen to and eyes to see. And it sounds like He is blessing them with truth, even though it is such a painful time you are going through.
There is lots of hope! I promise. There will come a day when things are seen clearly and no one will be standing beside you telling you that there is no elephant in the room and it must be all your imagination/sin/pride for seeing it. God is leading you. Be sure of that. And He is not about to quit. It is HIS work to complete the good work He started in you.
Welcome and wishing you the best today as you walk out this difficult time,
Stunned
So glad you found the site! If you want to tell us your story, go to the top of the page and click “My Story”. That would be the best place to say what you want – no one is allowed to criticize you on that forum, or on “Moving On”. Jim keeps those two places safe from the drive-by’s who don’t understand. Like Stunned said, you are feeling what many of us did at one time. I cried all day when I read over at SGM Survivors. Others had the same experiences with PDI/SGM as I and my family had!
Welcome again. I think you will find hope as you keep reading. Canary
I did the house church thing when I was in college for a year. The house church was supposed to be a refuge for burned out charismatics. Lots of the people were in one extended family. I always felt like the outsider. The pastor was always out of town on mission trips though, so it never really took off. They disbanded while I was on vacation, so I went to another church and met my husband within a few weeks.
Needin Hope, what’s your story and how can we help?
I think it’s a mistake to have a one-or-the-other stand on house church vs. meeting place churches (by meeting-place church, I am referring to those who prefer a building and not a house). Somehow this has been thrown into an adversarial scenario in some circles, and it’s both silly and unnecessary. As far as relevancy, the building you meet in–in my opinion–is not relevant. What is relevant is the gathering of Christians to be both a place of worship and a witness to the world. That group is the church. Not the brick and mortar thing you built with all of that money you raised.
I also think it’s a huge mistake to rely on a building to add to your numbers by its sheer presence alone. Waiting for people to show up is any easy excuse for me to not knock on doors or witness in any venue God provides. Not preaching to anyone here, I am just telling you how my history has been with it.
As far as evangelism goes, is our goal to add numbers to our meeting place, or to add numbers to Christ?
Home churches are subject to the same pitfalls that meeting-place churches suffer from, and the scriptural prescription for such illnesses are the same. When an ego barges into a house church to take ungraced control and/or starts preaching a false gospel, you confront them. If it persists, you boot their butt the same way you would if the same type of loud, hissing reptile slithered into a meeting-place church.
I know, I’ve oversimplified in my example, but hopefully you get my point.
Personally, I think Christians in America right now would be very wise to embrace the home church and stop trying to illegitimize it. News flash: care groups are not the end all and be all of home meetings. As Christians we are naive to think we are above or will never experience any type of radical downward spiral of the government that would lead to Christians having to meet in homes. I’m not a rabid dispensationalist, and I am not an apologist for home churches…I’m just sayin’, brothers and sisters.
From the cheap seats the form in which Christians gather is less important that fulfilling the mandate and mission of the church to serve and teach the nations how to live. As long as it is about ‘us’ we will not be overwhelmingly conquers in the earth.
Seek first the kingdom of God and His Righteousness — If we do that Jesus will build His church as He said he would and we will about the teaching the nations of the world how to live.
Christians want to argue doctrine, structure, polity and whatnot – when we need to rally around who we are and why we are here.
The early church had no need for buildings, paid staff, big budgets, denominations/divisions, etc. I’m not sure why man thought these necessary.
Imagine how the gospel could be spread and physical needs met without all this overhead.
The early church did it, meeting in homes and teaching/evangelizing in public places. We could do it that way, too. I think that Americans are consumers even when it comes to church. We have so many choices and we can pick a church based on programs, worship style, children’s ministry, etc. The typical house church can’t compete with these things. One has to really want the simplicity of the house church. It is counter-cultural to American churchianity to actual forego these conveniences.
Enjoying the discussion.
Well said in the above post, Irv. The house church I was involved with actually helped us to discover who were in Christ after leaving PDI in such confusion. It met a great need in us all. On the other hand, another house church in the area was as full of legalism as the church the people had left. No matter where believers “meet” if it ain’t about Jesus and the Kingdom of Heaven, it’s going to get taken over by the leaven…
I think they are a great idea! I was just thinking about where house churches are around here in my area. I wonder how you can find one especially if all your “friends” aren’t really friends anymore.
Here’s a few places to start Pam.
http://housechurch.org/registry/index.html
http://www.hccentral.com/directory/index.html
http://www.site.house2house.co.....ask=search
http://www.housechurchresource.....hurch.html
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/openhse/links.html
I think house churches are interesting. We have several around Richmond that I know about.
I only wonder how the unsaved would find the worshiping groups. Through invitation, certainly, but what do you think?
Intriguing links. Thanks, Jim.
Thanks, Everyone I’ll check them out.
Jim,
Thank you for bringing this subject to the fore; we are having our first House Church meeting in our home this Saturday.
We have been faithful SGM members for 22yrs up to our recent departure. I have been researching the topic of “house church”, it’s support in scripture and church history vs. the traditional North American Institutional Church model.
I have much to say, however, look forward to the discussion.
When I left Mormonism, I wanted to find the “best” church, the “right” church.
It was part of the reason I loved being a Mormon: being “right,” being a part of the “correct” church, the most “biblical” church.
Now, I realize that house churches, mega-churches, country churches, church plants…all are ways the Father molds his children, all are ways we join together to worship and grow.
Be cautious, as you recover from the toxicity of SGM, not to suspect that there is ony “one” way to be joined together in covenant. Find the place that is best for you, a place of purity and love and grace.
Apelogeito
–I’m so excited to hear of your freedom! Breathe the free air!
I only have one question about the topic. Everyone feel free to help me with this thought. How does evangelism and spreading the good news work in a house church format? Most of the sweet folks I know that have been involved are the same 12-20 people with no change in numbers. How do you spread the gospel and see the home church grow if it has a “us 4 and no more” mindset? I certainly see how burnt folks can go in this direction. It seem safe and relational. What are y all’s thought on this?
Jim thanks for the links. I will read up as well!
Since i thought about starting one when i left SGM i will give a brief thought on home churches. It is what our forefathers did the first 200 hundred years of Christianity. Evangelism was simple. christians modeled something so radically different the people you knew were going to come and get saved or reject. also, they didn’t build temples or buildings,but when they got large the started meeting in more homes spreading from area to area. Highly effective since it changed the world. Alas, in the 300′s paganism entered the church through the Emperor Constantine and we have been suffering ever since. Nevertheless, i am in a place that would not be my natural setting for fellowship and being blessed beyond my wildest dreams-go figure!!!
Ageless, can you contact me by inbox and update me on the exodus???
I don’t want to get into a whole debate on the whole house church thing, however in response to Azaziah, the statement that it is what our forefathers did for the first 200 years is semi-true, but misleading.
When the church started they did meet in temples and synagogues, they left and started meeting in houses when they were kicked out and persecuted. Of course during times of persucution churches met in houses, that is still the case today where churches are in houses in countries where it is illegal to have church. So we would expect that for most of the early church time until Constantine the church met in houses becuase they had to – they were under persecution. To say that it is a model for how we are suppose to hold church today in America igonores the historical realities, and really draws on an example that is not relevant.
Presbyterian
is correct in his (her) assessment of how and why the early church met and how they grew. Someday (maybe in the near future) Christians in this country will be forced to meet in home churches because, like in Russia under Communism, all building were turned into museums or burnt to the ground.
I think many from SGM might find Home Church (aka Home Group) to be an interesting alternative. No overlording leaders, BUT – I agree with agelessdebutnante. Of all the friends I have in home churches, they all still meet with the small little group they started with many years ago.
It would be interesting to here from a persecuted Christian in Cuba or China that is FORCED underground and hear if they would prefer to stay hidden or jump at the chance to meet out in the open in a building (called a Church) with other Christians.
We are in a great place now after leaving Metro Life. We are the only building in a small community in East Orlando, and people from the community drop in all the time because “we just moved here and are looking for a church” or “we just started a family and figured that we wanted to start going back to church again” or “I saw the building and wanted to know what it was all about” I have heard these 3 and many more statements that say one thing to me – God is using the building in this community to draw people to Him, and we get the opportunity to share the Gospel with them, sometimes even, by opening our mouths.
I think that everyone who gathers in a building on Sundays should continue to do so, if they feel that is what God wants them to do. As someone who sees the advantages of home church, I have no beef with first whatever on the corner.
The question of evangelism has been asked.
My personal position on this is, most evangelism happens where we live. That is, in the market place, the town square, out in the world where we live.
True, the Gospel is to be preached from the pulpit too, but I always thought that the Gospel is preached in our lives, as we interact with the world (that we are in, but not of.)
The house church concept creates an environment whereby, unless visitors are invited in, evangelism is conducted outside, so to speak.
It would merely shift most of the evangelism to the outside of the “meeting place” walls.
Personally, house churches can be great alternative to the Americanized institutional church. (Some have called it “Churchianity.”)
The evangelism question is indicative of the one of reasons 5 million of us (in the US) have “left the building”.
Defender has touched on this-evangelism should be a part of every believer’s life. So many American’s want to pay the pros, and have them do the work. “Feed” me, teach my kids, keep my teens out of trouble, or better yet, get them ‘fired up’ about God, preach the Gospel to the friends I invite to church.
You have elders all around you, and you might be one. We all need “equipping”, and I’d encourage everyone to glean from the wisdom of the elders in your midst. Read the qualifications in Tim and Titus, and do some deep thinking. I’ll bet you’ll realize that Paul is describing someone you know.
Been thru the house church thing. No staff, no building, no “stuff”. Lots of hyper-spirituality and wheel-spinning. I’ll never get sucked into that again.
I was part of a house church for three years. It was wonderful. Yet, I knew of another house church in the area that became very controlling. Women had to wear dresses, head coverings, etc. The leaven can be found when any believers meet, whether in a building or in a home. It still has to be all about following Jesus.
There is more opportunity for believers to use their gifts to edify the Body in a small group. Having an Elder or two is important. Like Jim said, they will be easily identified. Our elder never had to say much. He just oversaw things, didn’t rule over anyone. We all respected his wisdom and age, and knew he was there to watch over us in a good way. It was an incredible experience.
As for evangelism, there wasn’t much done in our SGM church. I am convinced that we share the Lord with people in our lives. If they want to know Him, we help raise them to maturity. It isn’t complicated. A house church should grow and split into more house churches if people are sharing the Lord in their every day lives. Ours disolved because we moved to CO, but I will always be grafeful for the experience.
The Missus,
“Been thru the house church thing. No staff, no building, no “stuff”. Lots of hyper-spirituality and wheel-spinning. I’ll never get sucked into that again. ”
Takes me back to “Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it.”
We need to bloom where God plants us. That’s for sure.
Jim, you are correct, so many people want to, as you said, “let the pros do it” and what do we end up with? Pros (Like CJ) running our churches.
Kinda makes you go “Hmmmm”, doesn’t it?
I have been reading this blog for over a week now; first, I apologize for not placing my comments in the right thread. I have had difficulty navigating the site…I’d like to tell my story ( at this point it is on going). It is not by accident that I found this site. It has been the faithfulness of a loving and gracious God that I found it! To show me….that I’m not a) losing my mind! b) my questions are GOOD ones and c) there may be hope.
I don’t think I have ever felt so lost in my life.
Please place this post where it belongs and someone please guide me in this site…would like very much to chat with you guys!
God bless you all!
needin hope
Dear Sister/Brother needin’ hope,
Welcome to the site. So many of us know exactly what you mean by the feeling that you’re losing your mind. But you’re not! When people are feeling that way it is most likely because they are seeing something clearly but those around them are acting like what is being seen is not there or that it is not as you see it. Trust the Holy Spirit to guide you. He gave you a gut to listen to and eyes to see. And it sounds like He is blessing them with truth, even though it is such a painful time you are going through.
There is lots of hope! I promise. There will come a day when things are seen clearly and no one will be standing beside you telling you that there is no elephant in the room and it must be all your imagination/sin/pride for seeing it. God is leading you. Be sure of that. And He is not about to quit. It is HIS work to complete the good work He started in you.
Welcome and wishing you the best today as you walk out this difficult time,
Stunned
Dear needin’hope,
So glad you found the site! If you want to tell us your story, go to the top of the page and click “My Story”. That would be the best place to say what you want – no one is allowed to criticize you on that forum, or on “Moving On”. Jim keeps those two places safe from the drive-by’s who don’t understand. Like Stunned said, you are feeling what many of us did at one time. I cried all day when I read over at SGM Survivors. Others had the same experiences with PDI/SGM as I and my family had!
Welcome again. I think you will find hope as you keep reading.
Canary
I did the house church thing when I was in college for a year. The house church was supposed to be a refuge for burned out charismatics. Lots of the people were in one extended family. I always felt like the outsider. The pastor was always out of town on mission trips though, so it never really took off. They disbanded while I was on vacation, so I went to another church and met my husband within a few weeks.
Needin Hope, what’s your story and how can we help?
Vida
Forgot to tell it I want the comments for this thread.
Howdy:
I think it’s a mistake to have a one-or-the-other stand on house church vs. meeting place churches (by meeting-place church, I am referring to those who prefer a building and not a house). Somehow this has been thrown into an adversarial scenario in some circles, and it’s both silly and unnecessary. As far as relevancy, the building you meet in–in my opinion–is not relevant. What is relevant is the gathering of Christians to be both a place of worship and a witness to the world. That group is the church. Not the brick and mortar thing you built with all of that money you raised.
I also think it’s a huge mistake to rely on a building to add to your numbers by its sheer presence alone. Waiting for people to show up is any easy excuse for me to not knock on doors or witness in any venue God provides. Not preaching to anyone here, I am just telling you how my history has been with it.
As far as evangelism goes, is our goal to add numbers to our meeting place, or to add numbers to Christ?
Home churches are subject to the same pitfalls that meeting-place churches suffer from, and the scriptural prescription for such illnesses are the same. When an ego barges into a house church to take ungraced control and/or starts preaching a false gospel, you confront them. If it persists, you boot their butt the same way you would if the same type of loud, hissing reptile slithered into a meeting-place church.
I know, I’ve oversimplified in my example, but hopefully you get my point.
Personally, I think Christians in America right now would be very wise to embrace the home church and stop trying to illegitimize it. News flash: care groups are not the end all and be all of home meetings. As Christians we are naive to think we are above or will never experience any type of radical downward spiral of the government that would lead to Christians having to meet in homes. I’m not a rabid dispensationalist, and I am not an apologist for home churches…I’m just sayin’, brothers and sisters.
Well THERE he is!
Thanks for the thoughts, PK!
Prot Knight..
Thanks for your insight………… you nailed it!
PK- Thanks for weighing in.
From the cheap seats the form in which Christians gather is less important that fulfilling the mandate and mission of the church to serve and teach the nations how to live. As long as it is about ‘us’ we will not be overwhelmingly conquers in the earth.
Seek first the kingdom of God and His Righteousness — If we do that Jesus will build His church as He said he would and we will about the teaching the nations of the world how to live.
Christians want to argue doctrine, structure, polity and whatnot – when we need to rally around who we are and why we are here.
The early church had no need for buildings, paid staff, big budgets, denominations/divisions, etc. I’m not sure why man thought these necessary.
Imagine how the gospel could be spread and physical needs met without all this overhead.
The early church did it, meeting in homes and teaching/evangelizing in public places. We could do it that way, too. I think that Americans are consumers even when it comes to church. We have so many choices and we can pick a church based on programs, worship style, children’s ministry, etc. The typical house church can’t compete with these things. One has to really want the simplicity of the house church. It is counter-cultural to American churchianity to actual forego these conveniences.
Enjoying the discussion.
Well said in the above post, Irv. The house church I was involved with actually helped us to discover who were in Christ after leaving PDI in such confusion. It met a great need in us all. On the other hand, another house church in the area was as full of legalism as the church the people had left. No matter where believers “meet” if it ain’t about Jesus and the Kingdom of Heaven, it’s going to get taken over by the leaven…
House churches come in as many flavors as institutional churches.
When I first created a website for a local gathering and started posting it to home church directories, half the people who called me were “prophets”.
“Sure, c’mon over to place my place. I’ll get some friends together so you can tell them about God’s judgment on America.”
Or not…
House churches come in as many flavors as institutional churches.
That about sums it up…:)