I remember various “outreaches” that failed to convert anyone. I remember taking classes about being “brief and amazing” when sharing the gospel. The problem was, there was no power in our methods. No power in our words. The world can tell when they meet the real Jesus or just a pale imitation. That’s all we were – pale imitations of the Lord.
Canary,
You got me thinking, if there is power in the Gospel, and nobody responded, ……. I wonder just what was shared that SGM called a gospel?
(Or was it an attempt to show just how amazing SGM is to sgm-ers? And world just doesn’t care.)
KWIM?
There are lots of gospels, but only one true Gospel.
I don’t know, Defender. It’s possible. I went through “training” on how to share the gospel, what verses to use, even on how to write out my own track. We were suppose to go up to strangers and ask if we could talk to them. What was lacking was heart – there was so much mind stuff – the verses, the technique, etc. yet little love. I just shared the good news with my 15 year old again last week and there was certainly not only love but the Holy Spirit gave me the words. The results are so different when you share something that you actually HAVE. Does that make sense?
Yes it does make sense.
The true Gospel comes out in our lives, because we are changed, and effects us that way.
(Partly, my question was rhetorical.)
When I was growing up in the Lutheran Church, our particular congregation used the “Kennedy Evangelism Training Method”. It was a 16 week course in learning specific verses, and conversation methods in sharing the Gospel. I remember our team making cold calls to people’s houses, sitting in the living rooms and sharing the Gospel.
Our church grew exponentially. After several years, many of the people in the congregation cited that they were saved by those living room visits, and became members of that church. (Just a different twist on the “packaged Gospel”.)
Now eventually, that congregation morphed into celebrity worship of the pastor,and nepotism has kept it going. I remember hearing in the late 80′s, that the pastor had died of brain cancer, and his son-in-law took over the church.
Q.1.) “If you were to die tonight, do you think you would go to Heaven?”
Q. 2.) “If you did die tonight, and God asked you ‘Why should I let you into my heaven?’ What would you say?”
As per D. James Kennedy’s Evangelism Explosion.
Talk about adding to the Scriptures! Can you imagine the apostle Paul asking such lame questions while he was ministering the Gospel? Who comes up with such nonsense?
Answer to Question 1 – It does not matter what anyone THINKS will happen.
Answer to Question 2 - God does not ask why He should let people in Heaven.
The world is looking for a demonstation of Christ not an explanation. Jesus built a platform for his message by being first a servant and second a lover of sinners. The church has struggled with both of these.
We are not perceived as serving the world but judging the world. (not totally accurate but you get the picture). The expression of His Father was His glory — graciousness, compassion, mercy, love, kindness, reliable, and forgiving of ALL sin, iniquity and rebellion. We are His glory (or the expression of His glory) in the earth – sinners should encounter the glory of God in us to them. I don’t think the world sees Jesus when they see the (institutionalized) church.
Finally – the one’s that Jesus had a problem with were the self-righteous not the needy. And the self-righteousness had a problem with Him. It seems to me the church is seen as the self-righteousness not the expression of God’s glory in the earth (as the glory of God is in us – Christ Himself).
Last (this falls in line with the “just one more scripture” method ) – We will be most effective in reaching the world with the gospel when we learn who we are and the power of His righteousness to love and serve the world as He did (not in how well we learn to “share the gospel”. If we are to change the world (which we are called to do), it will be as servants of mankind (even the enemies of God – as he did us when we were enemies).
Kids learn how to relate by observing the people in their environment.
The hurting world learns about Jesus by the way we Christians live our lives.
And, in general, we are not doing such a swift job.
I remember the pressure to go out to the mall with the, “Two Question Test.” Oh, we had to go to special classes to qualify and take a final exam at the end (I got a 94 instead of a 100 because I asked a couple questions using my own words instead of regurgiating the script.) We were told the success rate was high.
I couldn’t bring myself to do it, I just couldn’t. And I’m extroverted but it just looked so contrived.
Does anyone know of anyone that has been converted and established in a local church as a result of this particular technique?
D.B., I never saw the two question test work on anyone. But that’s me. You were discerning enough not to try it. I, on the other hand, tried it a couple of times before I said to myself, “This ain’t working” and quit. My sharing the gospel with strangers at the Mall was “brief and amazing” – brief because I didn’t last long, and amazing that I ever thought it might “work”.
Way to say it, Irv. I have been thinking a while that Jesus did not come to judge the world but to save it. We should be of the same mind and heart. Unfortunately, a lot of judging of the world went on in the PDI that I knew. I’m ashamed to say I was part of that. Now I am free to love and live the gospel. Judgment Day will come soon enough and I, thankfully, won’t be the Judge! We have the freedom to walk in His love with all people. ( I am not talking about accepting sin, but loving sinners regardless – I’ve put down my stones)
DB, “Does anyone know of anyone that has been converted and established in a local church as a result of this particular technique?”
I know of people who claim to be converted by that method, as I said in my earlier post.
Not by me personally.
I never used that method except for in the class itself. This happened when I was 16 years old.
I have presented the Gospel to many in my life, and a few times I used words.
I recall several times, back when I worked in the Construction industry, when co-workers would ask If I were a christian or something like that, because I “didn’t smoke, or drink, or didn’t raise no hell, or nothin’ like that.” And It would open up opportunities to discuss the differences between “razin’ hell” and Jesus’ work to keep us out of hell. Or something like that. Can’t say if the guys were saved, don’t know where they are today. I don’t know if I planted seed, or watered it, or if it was harvested since. I just responded to the moment.
I didn’t have to ask those two questions.
These kinds of encounters were repeated many times in my life. I could tell when I was interacting with someone who was wrestling with God, because they would sometimes, without provocation, turn on me. I believe that the spirit in them was uncomfortable with the Holy Spirit in me. Therefore I would not respond unkindly, they were in torment.
It is a Spiritual Battle, that’s for sure.
The Gospel is best shared from our lives.
When we are truly living in the Grace of God, the Gospel is displayed.
(Not a contrived life like SGM demands,)
There were times when co-workers came to me and told me how my words or example changed their life, when I had no idea I ever did such a thing.
One such time a female co-worker was talking about how if she ever got pregnant, she would for sure get an abortion. I said “Well, just remember that you may have to give an account to God for that decision someday.” It wasn’t given in a judgmental tone, or anything like that. But, a year later she came to me to say that she had lost so much sleep over my comment, that she now knows that she could never do such a thing as abort a child, if she ever got pregnant.
Now that is not a presentation of the Gospel, but you never know how God is working in a person’s life. It was 15 years ago at Ft Belvoir VA. For all I know, someone else planted more seed and she is a believer worshiping today (hopefully not in an SGM church) and we will rejoice together at the feast of the Lamb.
Yeah, I’m not into “caned” gospel presentations either.
You know…however, whenever, with whomever, using whatever…let’s just all encourage each other to be ready in and out of season to give a defense for the hope that is within us.
Some people have great success being taught how to get to the point, some people have a better ability to weave the gospel into conversations.
You may not be into canned presentations, you may be into them. Either way we are commanded to hare the gospel, and I am guilty of not always doing so. I am sad about this.
Let’s rejoice anytime the Word goes forth, because it never comes back void.
Anything done with purity and passion can be effective.
Where is Jesus in the 2 question test? Where is the Gospel? Where is the leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit? Where is the revelation of the cross? Coming later? Let’s see.
A typical response to the 2 question test.
Answer to question 1: ” I do not want to go to Heaven if that means spending the rest of eternity with a bunch of self righteous hypocritical Christians.”
Then the typical Christian’s response to that statement: “Waiter! Check please!”
(Never made it to question 2)
I’ve known people who have come to Christ through Evangelism Explosion.
We are treading on very thin ground here. As a sister in Christ, I urge you to focus on heresy and abuse in the church, not on people who pour their lives out to share the gospel.
Remember that Jesus always asked questions, “Who do you say that I am?”
If this approach doesn’t work for you, don’t use it. But let’s not shoot each other over it.
Dennis Brother,
The two question test is used as an ice breaker to open up a conversation with a total stranger. It has nothing to do with the Gospel. (I agree, the premise of the questions is not biblical, but you ask the questions to people who may know nothing of biblical things.)
It just gets a conversation going in the direction that can be turned to the Gospel.
It is for people who need a comfortable approach.
Truth be told, people I know who used that approach, no longer follow the “script” because they are comfortable sharing their faith in a natural way.
I’m not going to knock the Evangelism Explosion Program merely because it is canned, nor because I do not use it myself. BUT, People have been led to Christ by Christians who were otherwise not quite comfortable doing so in a casual way.
No mater how it is done, if Christ is proclaimed, PRAISE GOD!
I think the original point here might have been that SGM had a canned program, that proclaimed ….. something…..not the true Gospel.
I understand about opening the door to the Gospel presentation. But does that mean we use an unBiblical approach? I think most people are fed up with Christians and their religious tracts. When I lived in Daytona Beach, the Campus Crusades for Christ literally bombarded the beach with the “4 Spiritual Laws” tracts. They had movies at night about car crashes and dying before getting saved. It was more about fear of eternal punishment than the cross of Christ and becoming a child of God. Same thing goes for Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort. Definitely not the way the apostle Paul talked about being saved.
Why the need to add man made techniques to telling someone about Jesus Christ? I never saw Jesus and the disciples going to the beach to hand out tracts. Nor did they start a Christian rock band to attract the youth. What’s wrong with just sticking to God’s word? Is it not good enough? Was God a failure at telling us in His word how to minister the Gospel, so that now we need to be “creative” and use our own techniques? What ever happened to the word of God being our blueprint for how we do things? Do we have more faith in the latest witnessing fad?
Just to remind you of one of the gross extremes of “ministering the Gospel”, do you remember the stripper for Jesus? After they came in and watched her striptease act, she then told them about Jesus!!! Does that change your mind about the “whatever works” mentality?
Are we helping God, or getting in His way? I really wonder sometimes.
Wow RT - I certainly didn’t mean to communicate that I was shooting anyone down for preaching the gospel. That is the antithesis of what I live and believe. I was just following the spirit of the thrad.
I am very grateful to those who preach the gospel and personally I will use whatever works depending on my situation and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Jesus met people at their point of need not at His point of need – I personally like His example as have done accordingly.
In a very poor way, I was trying to communicate my concern about the way we as Christians represent Christ to the world that ultimately hinders the gospel of Christ.
I was attempting to say that Christ’s example of coming to serve mankind and loving even his enemies (of which we all were) are powerful in our expression to the world. When we serve those in the world (our neighbors, it gives a greater weight to our message.
I do believe that the church’s demonstration of our life with Christ has hindered the work of those who are on the front lines day in and day out.
Anyway — I appreciate your challenge to my comments – hopefully this brings some clarity of what is in my heart on not just my words.
Dennis,
I agree that using scare tactics to present the Gospel is annoying and not profitable, and certainly not scriptural.
The Evangelism Explosion “method” may not be your cup of tea, but it does present the scriptural Gospel in an organized manner.
Trust me, Evangelism Explosion is not tracts. No tracts are EVER used.
It is memorization of scripture, in context, to be shared one on one.
Immediately following the two questions is the scriptural Gospel presentation starting with Grace, using Romans 6:23.
Man is a sinner: Mt 5:48 Rom 3:23 Eph 2:8-9 John 1:1,14
I could go on and on, with the entire outline I memorized as a teen many years ago.
To memorize a program like this as a young man is a very good thing to do. It ingrains Scripture into one’s heart, and gives tools to share the Gospel with friends or strangers in a moments notice, to give a reason for the hope that lies withing us.
There are a lot of Brothers & Sisters in Christ, right now, who first heard the Gospel from someone following this outline of the Gospel. Isn’t God amazing? (The foolishness of an outline to make Disciples of Christ. Whodathunkit?)
I am not promoting this method, so much as saying it is a valid, proven method for people who are not so out-going. Once scripture is in you, just speak the truth that lies within you, and Voila! You are preaching the Gospel. (Probably with far more power than CJ has ever preached.)
Again, after I finished the class, I NEVER followed that outline again, I just learned, and knew the Gospel, and shared it from my heart.
That’s the Christian life.
(Not killing sin till your dead. I’m poking fun at SGM here, not you Dennis.)
I hope this helps explain what I have tried to say.
Dennis, “do you remember the stripper for Jesus? After they came in and watched her striptease act, she then told them about Jesus!!! Does that change your mind about the “whatever works” mentality?”
I have no idea what you are talking abut with that statement, except that I did a research paper on CULTS in high school, and a CULT did something like that. The Girls were called “Hookers for Jesus.” That’s NOT the Gospel. That’s not Christ.
When I said “No mater how it is done, if Christ is proclaimed, PRAISE GOD!” I was talking about the actual Scriptural Gospel, not CULT behavior. NOT even CJ’s gospel.
The 4 spiritual laws, as I recall, (It has been over 30 years since I have read them) is scriptural. If someone is saved by reading that tract, PRAISE GOD!
Let me tell you a story:
A friend of mine was saved back in the 70′s. This new believer was convinced that the Holy Spirit wanted him to record an 8 track tape to loop a simple message, something like “Repent, and believe in Jesus to be saved!”
He was to mount big loud speakers on the top of his van, playing that tape, and drive from Lansing Michigan to Mackinaw island and back on a given Memorial Day weekend when that freeway would be bumper to bumper with vacation traffic.
He thought that he would be praying with people to receive Christ all weekend on the side of the road. It didn’t happen.
20 years later, he is a pastor of a small church and he hears how one of the people in his congregation was going up to northern Michigan one Memorial day weekend (20 years ago) and heard that message, was convicted of his sin, pulled over, prayed all by himself for God to forgive him, and has been living for Christ ever since.
They were united that day, (20 years later) and believe that perhaps that one convert was the whole point, and God rewarded that pastor 20 years later for his obedience.
No mater how it is done, if Christ is proclaimed, PRAISE GOD!
The 2 question test is NOT an unbiblical approach.
Handing out tracts is not something I am personally comfortable with (cold contact), but one of those 4 spiritual laws booklets that you don’t think too much of was used by the Holy Spirit to help point my husband to the Lord the day he became a Christian.
All I was trying to say was that it is the GOODNESS of God that leads men to repentance, and that is the work of the Holy Spirit. God does not need man made methods to convict or convert someone. If someone became a Christian, it was the work of the Holy Spirit and that had little or nothing to do with the METHOD of how the Gospel was presented. I do not see any methods being used or promoted in the Bible.
“God’s word will not return unto Him void.” His word alone is sufficient, no added ingredients necessary.
If the Gospel is preached, some will be saved. I’m grateful for some methods that I find laughable, because God uses all types of “methods” to draw people to Himself. “All means”.
Of course, I was in a blatantly Christian hair metal band in the 80′s, so what do I know…
… except that we saw God save a lot of people.
1 Cor 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
A tract is a condensed version of the Gospel. A few verses printed out on a piece of paper, sometimes with a testimony also printed on it. Some people that will never pick up a Bible and look at it will hold onto that little piece of paper that someone gave them or that they found. And the Holy Spirit will use those few verses to bring people into the Kingdom – indeed, His word will not return unto Him void. There is nothing unbiblical about bible verses and someone’s testimony printed out on a folded up 1/2 of 8 1/2″ x 11″ piece of paper. I’m sure if paper was readily available back in the NT, tracts in some form would’ve been used, since there were letters to the various churches…
I Cor 9:20 is about relating to people where they are at, and on their level, not looking down on them with some spiritual superiority complex. It is about preaching the Gospel with humility and compassion. Like Canary quoted earlier, “When necessary, use words.”
I do not have a problem with that. But I would much rather just talk to someone. A tract is very impersonal. It is just a generic booklet that does not relate to a person on their level. One size fits all does not line up with 1 Cor 9:20 that Jim just quoted.
I should have indicated which rant of yours I was addressing. It was the “start a Christian rock band”, which I think fits 1 Cor 9. We’re talking about personal experiences, and I was sharing my experience of becoming a hair metal kid to reach the hair metal kids.
I am sorry that I misunderstood you. I was not aware that Paul was talking about starting a Christian rock band in 1 Cor 9:20. I did not see that deeply into those verses. Maybe your vision into the Scriptures is better than mine.
I am going to become a Christian cigarette smoker so that I can reach those who smoke cigarettes! I won’t inhale of course, but they won’t know that. Then I am going to be a Christian lottery player, so that I can reach those who play the lottery. I will only bet a couple of bucks evey now and then, and give any and all the winnings to the church, so it won’t be gambling or the love of money. Then I am going to be a Christian….
Ok, Dennis, I’m trying to behave myself and not be snarky. I know Jim will appreciate that. I think we all agree that one size does not fit all. The point is that you said this:
(quote)I understand about opening the door to the Gospel presentation. But does that mean we use an unBiblical approach? I think most people are fed up with Christians and their religious tracts. When I lived in Daytona Beach, the Campus Crusades for Christ literally bombarded the beach with the “4 Spiritual Laws” tracts. They had movies at night about car crashes and dying before getting saved. It was more about fear of eternal punishment than the cross of Christ and becoming a child of God. Same thing goes for Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort. Definitely not the way the apostle Paul talked about being saved. Why the need to add man made techniques to telling someone about Jesus Christ? I never saw Jesus and the disciples going to the beach to hand out tracts. (end of quote)
I said in my previous post that handing out tracts is not my thing, but I am not going to say that it is wrong because that is not true. And that’s all I have to say on the matter.
I was not trying to offend you or anyone else (which seems to be extremely difficult for me). And I am not talking about right vs wrong (morally speaking). Just wanting not to stray from the Biblical pattern of “how” to do things. There is nothing morally wrong with handing out tracks or starting a Christian rock band, or the 2 question test. I am just concerned with adding to the Scriptures. No condemnation intended.
Please forgive me for being an ass (as Jim so rightly and politely put it).
(quote)Just wanting not to stray from the Biblical pattern of “how” to do things. There is nothing morally wrong with handing out tracks or starting a Christian rock band, or the 2 question test. I am just concerned with adding to the Scriptures. No condemnation intended.
Please forgive me for being an ass (as Jim so rightly and politely put it).(end quote)
.
The Bible doesn’t tell us exactly how to do everything, where we get in trouble is when we insist that something has to be done a certain way in order to be “biblical”. As Canary said, whatever is said or done in the name of Jesus must be said or done in His love.
.
So, in that regard…I forgive you for being a stubborn mule.
.
.
Just don’t do it again…
I am one saved as a result of Campus Crusade’s outreach. So are countless thousands upon thousands of people. Watch out. God is MUCH bigger than us, and does what he will when his Word goes forth.
Sometimes we are jealous of the fruit of others. Do you truly believe, Dennis, that people have not come to faith in Jesus through the scriptures in tracts? Your criticism and arrogance in poo-pooing (proper word, I think, means “denigrating) the work of thousands of fellow sisters and brothers in Christ is breathtaking.
So…why is it an unbiblical approach to share the gospel? Jesus told his disciples to pack up and go out two by two. And back in the ’70′s and ’80′s, when I was on the beach in Daytona with the dorky movie and the slo-mo football, all of American were dorks. It was the 1970′s, after all. Only Jim was not dorky. And neither was his band. Probably.
Why the heck is this such an issue? And how do hookers or strippers compare to young believers who are trying to share the gospel? Honestly, Dennis, I think your arguments are bizarre. Fun, but bizarre. Using a tract as a way to share the gospel is akin to smoking or gambling…what the heck?
It seems like you have great success in sharing the gospel, that you have seen much fruit and many people coming to faith in Christ, probably have a gift of evangelism. Could you elaborate? I’m (really) unclear about the proper biblical way to share the gospel if it is not trusting in God to lead as he wills and using scripture to proclaim the glories of the Lord.
As others have said, let’s just be. Let others be. Let the Holy Spirit do work.
God used Charles Manson’s right hand man “Tex Watson”, to reach my cold heart. After reading his bought “Will you Die For Me? I was convinced that if God could forgive someone as evil as Watson then He could forgive me, and I thought I was too far gone.
I had a friend tell me that he was stoned out of his mind listening to a Pat Benatar album when she sang “Treat Me Right”, and he immediately fell to his knees and repented because he said he felt it was Jesus speaking to him through what she sang. Today, 30 years later, he is an elder in a community church.
I had someone ask me “you and you’re wife reach so many people for Christ, what is your formula?”
I said “Formula?, the Beatles had it right when they sang “All You Need is Love”, because if you don’t love the lost and see them as God does, you will have no desire to see them worshiping along side you for eternity. (I just scanned back and saw that I plagiarized Canary)
I also do love the quote that was probably mentioned earlier in this dialog- ” Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” Francis of Assisi
If people see you come at them as some sort of quota they see right through it. That’s probably why I don’t like the Jack Chic track stuff, but I’m sure someone somewhere got saved reading one. Like I always say “with a shotgun, even a blind hunter’s gonna get a deer eventually”
I came to be interested in Jesus through the movie “Jesus Christ, Super Star” – talk about a faulty gospel – and yet the gospel was in there somewhere. It wasn’t too many years after watching that movie as a young teen that I accepted the Lord into my heart. Unfortunately, legalistic churches got hold of me. Didn’t learn about grace till mid-life. Sad, huh?
Paul, I stand corrected about the quote I attributed to Martin Luther (preach the gospel at all times, if necessary use words). I read it in one of his writings – must have been quoting Saint Francis.
What stands opposed to…virtue is tyrannical pride, when the pastor exempts himself from all subjection, and tyrannizes over the Church. It was for this that Ezekiel condemned the false prophets, that is, that they ruled cruelly and tyrannically (Ezekiel 34:4). Christ also condemned the Pharisees, because they laid intolerable burdens on the shoulders of the people which they would not touch, no, not with a finger (Matthew 23:4). This imperious rigour, then, which ungodly pastors exercise over the Church, cannot be corrected, except their authority be restrained, so that they may rule in such a way as to afford an example of a godly life. — John Calvin
I remember various “outreaches” that failed to convert anyone. I remember taking classes about being “brief and amazing” when sharing the gospel. The problem was, there was no power in our methods. No power in our words. The world can tell when they meet the real Jesus or just a pale imitation. That’s all we were – pale imitations of the Lord.
Canary,
You got me thinking, if there is power in the Gospel, and nobody responded, ……. I wonder just what was shared that SGM called a gospel?
(Or was it an attempt to show just how amazing SGM is to sgm-ers? And world just doesn’t care.)
KWIM?
There are lots of gospels, but only one true Gospel.
I don’t know, Defender. It’s possible. I went through “training” on how to share the gospel, what verses to use, even on how to write out my own track. We were suppose to go up to strangers and ask if we could talk to them. What was lacking was heart – there was so much mind stuff – the verses, the technique, etc. yet little love. I just shared the good news with my 15 year old again last week and there was certainly not only love but the Holy Spirit gave me the words. The results are so different when you share something that you actually HAVE. Does that make sense?
Yes it does make sense.
The true Gospel comes out in our lives, because we are changed, and effects us that way.
(Partly, my question was rhetorical.)
When I was growing up in the Lutheran Church, our particular congregation used the “Kennedy Evangelism Training Method”. It was a 16 week course in learning specific verses, and conversation methods in sharing the Gospel. I remember our team making cold calls to people’s houses, sitting in the living rooms and sharing the Gospel.
Our church grew exponentially. After several years, many of the people in the congregation cited that they were saved by those living room visits, and became members of that church. (Just a different twist on the “packaged Gospel”.)
Now eventually, that congregation morphed into celebrity worship of the pastor,and nepotism has kept it going. I remember hearing in the late 80′s, that the pastor had died of brain cancer, and his son-in-law took over the church.
The Two Question Test?
O wow, DB, I forgot that one. Can’t remember what the questions were though! Was one of them “what do you think it takes to make it to heaven?”
Q.1.) “If you were to die tonight, do you think you would go to Heaven?”
Q. 2.) “If you did die tonight, and God asked you ‘Why should I let you into my heaven?’ What would you say?”
As per D. James Kennedy’s Evangelism Explosion.
Talk about adding to the Scriptures! Can you imagine the apostle Paul asking such lame questions while he was ministering the Gospel? Who comes up with such nonsense?
Answer to Question 1 – It does not matter what anyone THINKS will happen.
Answer to Question 2 - God does not ask why He should let people in Heaven.
For the “whatever it is worth department” –
The world is looking for a demonstation of Christ not an explanation. Jesus built a platform for his message by being first a servant and second a lover of sinners. The church has struggled with both of these.
We are not perceived as serving the world but judging the world. (not totally accurate but you get the picture). The expression of His Father was His glory — graciousness, compassion, mercy, love, kindness, reliable, and forgiving of ALL sin, iniquity and rebellion. We are His glory (or the expression of His glory) in the earth – sinners should encounter the glory of God in us to them. I don’t think the world sees Jesus when they see the (institutionalized) church.
Finally – the one’s that Jesus had a problem with were the self-righteous not the needy. And the self-righteousness had a problem with Him. It seems to me the church is seen as the self-righteousness not the expression of God’s glory in the earth (as the glory of God is in us – Christ Himself).
Last (this falls in line with the “just one more scripture” method ) – We will be most effective in reaching the world with the gospel when we learn who we are and the power of His righteousness to love and serve the world as He did (not in how well we learn to “share the gospel”. If we are to change the world (which we are called to do), it will be as servants of mankind (even the enemies of God – as he did us when we were enemies).
but that’s me!!
Word Irv.
It’s just like do as I say not as I do parenting.
Kids learn how to relate by observing the people in their environment.
The hurting world learns about Jesus by the way we Christians live our lives.
And, in general, we are not doing such a swift job.
I remember the pressure to go out to the mall with the, “Two Question Test.” Oh, we had to go to special classes to qualify and take a final exam at the end (I got a 94 instead of a 100 because I asked a couple questions using my own words instead of regurgiating the script.) We were told the success rate was high.
I couldn’t bring myself to do it, I just couldn’t. And I’m extroverted but it just looked so contrived.
Does anyone know of anyone that has been converted and established in a local church as a result of this particular technique?
D.B., I never saw the two question test work on anyone. But that’s me. You were discerning enough not to try it. I, on the other hand, tried it a couple of times before I said to myself, “This ain’t working” and quit. My sharing the gospel with strangers at the Mall was “brief and amazing” – brief because I didn’t last long, and amazing that I ever thought it might “work”.
Way to say it, Irv. I have been thinking a while that Jesus did not come to judge the world but to save it. We should be of the same mind and heart. Unfortunately, a lot of judging of the world went on in the PDI that I knew. I’m ashamed to say I was part of that. Now I am free to love and live the gospel. Judgment Day will come soon enough and I, thankfully, won’t be the Judge! We have the freedom to walk in His love with all people. ( I am not talking about accepting sin, but loving sinners regardless – I’ve put down my stones)
I love what Martin Luther wrote, “Share the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.”
DB,
“Does anyone know of anyone that has been converted and established in a local church as a result of this particular technique?”
I know of people who claim to be converted by that method, as I said in my earlier post.
Not by me personally.
I never used that method except for in the class itself. This happened when I was 16 years old.
I have presented the Gospel to many in my life, and a few times I used words.
I recall several times, back when I worked in the Construction industry, when co-workers would ask If I were a christian or something like that, because I “didn’t smoke, or drink, or didn’t raise no hell, or nothin’ like that.” And It would open up opportunities to discuss the differences between “razin’ hell” and Jesus’ work to keep us out of hell. Or something like that. Can’t say if the guys were saved, don’t know where they are today. I don’t know if I planted seed, or watered it, or if it was harvested since. I just responded to the moment.
I didn’t have to ask those two questions.
These kinds of encounters were repeated many times in my life. I could tell when I was interacting with someone who was wrestling with God, because they would sometimes, without provocation, turn on me. I believe that the spirit in them was uncomfortable with the Holy Spirit in me. Therefore I would not respond unkindly, they were in torment.
It is a Spiritual Battle, that’s for sure.
The Gospel is best shared from our lives.
When we are truly living in the Grace of God, the Gospel is displayed.
(Not a contrived life like SGM demands,)
There were times when co-workers came to me and told me how my words or example changed their life, when I had no idea I ever did such a thing.
One such time a female co-worker was talking about how if she ever got pregnant, she would for sure get an abortion. I said “Well, just remember that you may have to give an account to God for that decision someday.” It wasn’t given in a judgmental tone, or anything like that. But, a year later she came to me to say that she had lost so much sleep over my comment, that she now knows that she could never do such a thing as abort a child, if she ever got pregnant.
Now that is not a presentation of the Gospel, but you never know how God is working in a person’s life. It was 15 years ago at Ft Belvoir VA. For all I know, someone else planted more seed and she is a believer worshiping today (hopefully not in an SGM church) and we will rejoice together at the feast of the Lamb.
Yeah, I’m not into “caned” gospel presentations either.
You know…however, whenever, with whomever, using whatever…let’s just all encourage each other to be ready in and out of season to give a defense for the hope that is within us.
Some people have great success being taught how to get to the point, some people have a better ability to weave the gospel into conversations.
You may not be into canned presentations, you may be into them. Either way we are commanded to hare the gospel, and I am guilty of not always doing so. I am sad about this.
Let’s rejoice anytime the Word goes forth, because it never comes back void.
Anything done with purity and passion can be effective.
Where is Jesus in the 2 question test? Where is the Gospel? Where is the leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit? Where is the revelation of the cross? Coming later? Let’s see.
A typical response to the 2 question test.
Answer to question 1: ” I do not want to go to Heaven if that means spending the rest of eternity with a bunch of self righteous hypocritical Christians.”
Then the typical Christian’s response to that statement: “Waiter! Check please!”
(Never made it to question 2)
I’ve known people who have come to Christ through Evangelism Explosion.
We are treading on very thin ground here. As a sister in Christ, I urge you to focus on heresy and abuse in the church, not on people who pour their lives out to share the gospel.
Remember that Jesus always asked questions, “Who do you say that I am?”
If this approach doesn’t work for you, don’t use it. But let’s not shoot each other over it.
Dennis Brother,
The two question test is used as an ice breaker to open up a conversation with a total stranger. It has nothing to do with the Gospel. (I agree, the premise of the questions is not biblical, but you ask the questions to people who may know nothing of biblical things.)
It just gets a conversation going in the direction that can be turned to the Gospel.
It is for people who need a comfortable approach.
Truth be told, people I know who used that approach, no longer follow the “script” because they are comfortable sharing their faith in a natural way.
I’m not going to knock the Evangelism Explosion Program merely because it is canned, nor because I do not use it myself. BUT, People have been led to Christ by Christians who were otherwise not quite comfortable doing so in a casual way.
No mater how it is done, if Christ is proclaimed, PRAISE GOD!
I think the original point here might have been that SGM had a canned program, that proclaimed ….. something…..not the true Gospel.
I understand about opening the door to the Gospel presentation. But does that mean we use an unBiblical approach? I think most people are fed up with Christians and their religious tracts. When I lived in Daytona Beach, the Campus Crusades for Christ literally bombarded the beach with the “4 Spiritual Laws” tracts. They had movies at night about car crashes and dying before getting saved. It was more about fear of eternal punishment than the cross of Christ and becoming a child of God. Same thing goes for Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort. Definitely not the way the apostle Paul talked about being saved.
Why the need to add man made techniques to telling someone about Jesus Christ? I never saw Jesus and the disciples going to the beach to hand out tracts. Nor did they start a Christian rock band to attract the youth. What’s wrong with just sticking to God’s word? Is it not good enough? Was God a failure at telling us in His word how to minister the Gospel, so that now we need to be “creative” and use our own techniques? What ever happened to the word of God being our blueprint for how we do things? Do we have more faith in the latest witnessing fad?
Just to remind you of one of the gross extremes of “ministering the Gospel”, do you remember the stripper for Jesus? After they came in and watched her striptease act, she then told them about Jesus!!! Does that change your mind about the “whatever works” mentality?
Are we helping God, or getting in His way? I really wonder sometimes.
RT,
Just a small note: Jesus asked His disciples “Who do people say that I am?” He was not talking to unbelievers when He asked that question.
Wow RT - I certainly didn’t mean to communicate that I was shooting anyone down for preaching the gospel. That is the antithesis of what I live and believe. I was just following the spirit of the thrad.
I am very grateful to those who preach the gospel and personally I will use whatever works depending on my situation and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Jesus met people at their point of need not at His point of need – I personally like His example as have done accordingly.
In a very poor way, I was trying to communicate my concern about the way we as Christians represent Christ to the world that ultimately hinders the gospel of Christ.
I was attempting to say that Christ’s example of coming to serve mankind and loving even his enemies (of which we all were) are powerful in our expression to the world. When we serve those in the world (our neighbors, it gives a greater weight to our message.
I do believe that the church’s demonstration of our life with Christ has hindered the work of those who are on the front lines day in and day out.
Anyway — I appreciate your challenge to my comments – hopefully this brings some clarity of what is in my heart on not just my words.
Dennis,
I agree that using scare tactics to present the Gospel is annoying and not profitable, and certainly not scriptural.
The Evangelism Explosion “method” may not be your cup of tea, but it does present the scriptural Gospel in an organized manner.
Trust me, Evangelism Explosion is not tracts. No tracts are EVER used.
It is memorization of scripture, in context, to be shared one on one.
Immediately following the two questions is the scriptural Gospel presentation starting with Grace, using Romans 6:23.
Man is a sinner: Mt 5:48
Rom 3:23
Eph 2:8-9
John 1:1,14
I could go on and on, with the entire outline I memorized as a teen many years ago.
To memorize a program like this as a young man is a very good thing to do. It ingrains Scripture into one’s heart, and gives tools to share the Gospel with friends or strangers in a moments notice, to give a reason for the hope that lies withing us.
There are a lot of Brothers & Sisters in Christ, right now, who first heard the Gospel from someone following this outline of the Gospel. Isn’t God amazing? (The foolishness of an outline to make Disciples of Christ. Whodathunkit?)
I am not promoting this method, so much as saying it is a valid, proven method for people who are not so out-going. Once scripture is in you, just speak the truth that lies within you, and Voila! You are preaching the Gospel. (Probably with far more power than CJ has ever preached.)
Again, after I finished the class, I NEVER followed that outline again, I just learned, and knew the Gospel, and shared it from my heart.
That’s the Christian life.
(Not killing sin till your dead. I’m poking fun at SGM here, not you Dennis.)
I hope this helps explain what I have tried to say.
Dennis,
“do you remember the stripper for Jesus? After they came in and watched her striptease act, she then told them about Jesus!!! Does that change your mind about the “whatever works” mentality?”
I have no idea what you are talking abut with that statement, except that I did a research paper on CULTS in high school, and a CULT did something like that. The Girls were called “Hookers for Jesus.” That’s NOT the Gospel. That’s not Christ.
When I said “No mater how it is done, if Christ is proclaimed, PRAISE GOD!” I was talking about the actual Scriptural Gospel, not CULT behavior. NOT even CJ’s gospel.
The 4 spiritual laws, as I recall, (It has been over 30 years since I have read them) is scriptural. If someone is saved by reading that tract, PRAISE GOD!
Let me tell you a story:
A friend of mine was saved back in the 70′s. This new believer was convinced that the Holy Spirit wanted him to record an 8 track tape to loop a simple message, something like “Repent, and believe in Jesus to be saved!”
He was to mount big loud speakers on the top of his van, playing that tape, and drive from Lansing Michigan to Mackinaw island and back on a given Memorial Day weekend when that freeway would be bumper to bumper with vacation traffic.
He thought that he would be praying with people to receive Christ all weekend on the side of the road. It didn’t happen.
20 years later, he is a pastor of a small church and he hears how one of the people in his congregation was going up to northern Michigan one Memorial day weekend (20 years ago) and heard that message, was convicted of his sin, pulled over, prayed all by himself for God to forgive him, and has been living for Christ ever since.
They were united that day, (20 years later) and believe that perhaps that one convert was the whole point, and God rewarded that pastor 20 years later for his obedience.
No mater how it is done, if Christ is proclaimed, PRAISE GOD!
The 2 question test is NOT an unbiblical approach.
Handing out tracts is not something I am personally comfortable with (cold contact), but one of those 4 spiritual laws booklets that you don’t think too much of was used by the Holy Spirit to help point my husband to the Lord the day he became a Christian.
All I was trying to say was that it is the GOODNESS of God that leads men to repentance, and that is the work of the Holy Spirit. God does not need man made methods to convict or convert someone. If someone became a Christian, it was the work of the Holy Spirit and that had little or nothing to do with the METHOD of how the Gospel was presented. I do not see any methods being used or promoted in the Bible.
“God’s word will not return unto Him void.” His word alone is sufficient, no added ingredients necessary.
Method/schmethod.
If the Gospel is preached, some will be saved. I’m grateful for some methods that I find laughable, because God uses all types of “methods” to draw people to Himself. “All means”.
Of course, I was in a blatantly Christian hair metal band in the 80′s, so what do I know…
… except that we saw God save a lot of people.
1 Cor 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
A tract is a condensed version of the Gospel. A few verses printed out on a piece of paper, sometimes with a testimony also printed on it. Some people that will never pick up a Bible and look at it will hold onto that little piece of paper that someone gave them or that they found. And the Holy Spirit will use those few verses to bring people into the Kingdom – indeed, His word will not return unto Him void. There is nothing unbiblical about bible verses and someone’s testimony printed out on a folded up 1/2 of 8 1/2″ x 11″ piece of paper. I’m sure if paper was readily available back in the NT, tracts in some form would’ve been used, since there were letters to the various churches…
Hi Jim,
I Cor 9:20 is about relating to people where they are at, and on their level, not looking down on them with some spiritual superiority complex. It is about preaching the Gospel with humility and compassion. Like Canary quoted earlier, “When necessary, use words.”
Hi Ellie,
I do not have a problem with that. But I would much rather just talk to someone. A tract is very impersonal. It is just a generic booklet that does not relate to a person on their level. One size fits all does not line up with 1 Cor 9:20 that Jim just quoted.
Gee thanks, Dennis.
I should have indicated which rant of yours I was addressing. It was the “start a Christian rock band”, which I think fits 1 Cor 9. We’re talking about personal experiences, and I was sharing my experience of becoming a hair metal kid to reach the hair metal kids.
I was purty as heck, too…
Hi Jim,
I am sorry that I misunderstood you. I was not aware that Paul was talking about starting a Christian rock band in 1 Cor 9:20. I did not see that deeply into those verses. Maybe your vision into the Scriptures is better than mine.
I am going to become a Christian cigarette smoker so that I can reach those who smoke cigarettes! I won’t inhale of course, but they won’t know that. Then I am going to be a Christian lottery player, so that I can reach those who play the lottery. I will only bet a couple of bucks evey now and then, and give any and all the winnings to the church, so it won’t be gambling or the love of money. Then I am going to be a Christian….
Dennis-I think you should reach out to other asses.
That is hysterical Jim! I was actually going to put that, but did not know how to put that in “Christian” terminology. Very well said!
Ok, Dennis, I’m trying to behave myself and not be snarky. I know Jim will appreciate that. I think we all agree that one size does not fit all. The point is that you said this:
(quote)I understand about opening the door to the Gospel presentation. But does that mean we use an unBiblical approach? I think most people are fed up with Christians and their religious tracts. When I lived in Daytona Beach, the Campus Crusades for Christ literally bombarded the beach with the “4 Spiritual Laws” tracts. They had movies at night about car crashes and dying before getting saved. It was more about fear of eternal punishment than the cross of Christ and becoming a child of God. Same thing goes for Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort. Definitely not the way the apostle Paul talked about being saved.
Why the need to add man made techniques to telling someone about Jesus Christ? I never saw Jesus and the disciples going to the beach to hand out tracts. (end of quote)
I said in my previous post that handing out tracts is not my thing, but I am not going to say that it is wrong because that is not true. And that’s all I have to say on the matter.
Jim,
…and *I* was trying not to be snarky….
Hi Ellie,
I was not trying to offend you or anyone else (which seems to be extremely difficult for me). And I am not talking about right vs wrong (morally speaking). Just wanting not to stray from the Biblical pattern of “how” to do things. There is nothing morally wrong with handing out tracks or starting a Christian rock band, or the 2 question test. I am just concerned with adding to the Scriptures. No condemnation intended.
Please forgive me for being an ass (as Jim so rightly and politely put it).
Maybe we can all agree that whatever is said or done in the name of Jesus must be said or done in His love. Without that love, there is no power.
Ellie
Canary,
AMEN! Agreed 100%.
Thanks Canary!
(quote)Just wanting not to stray from the Biblical pattern of “how” to do things. There is nothing morally wrong with handing out tracks or starting a Christian rock band, or the 2 question test. I am just concerned with adding to the Scriptures. No condemnation intended.
Please forgive me for being an ass (as Jim so rightly and politely put it).(end quote)
.
The Bible doesn’t tell us exactly how to do everything, where we get in trouble is when we insist that something has to be done a certain way in order to be “biblical”. As Canary said, whatever is said or done in the name of Jesus must be said or done in His love.
.
So, in that regard…I forgive you for being a stubborn mule.
.
.
Just don’t do it again…
Dennis,
I am one saved as a result of Campus Crusade’s outreach. So are countless thousands upon thousands of people. Watch out. God is MUCH bigger than us, and does what he will when his Word goes forth.
Sometimes we are jealous of the fruit of others. Do you truly believe, Dennis, that people have not come to faith in Jesus through the scriptures in tracts? Your criticism and arrogance in poo-pooing (proper word, I think, means “denigrating) the work of thousands of fellow sisters and brothers in Christ is breathtaking.
So…why is it an unbiblical approach to share the gospel? Jesus told his disciples to pack up and go out two by two. And back in the ’70′s and ’80′s, when I was on the beach in Daytona with the dorky movie and the slo-mo football, all of American were dorks. It was the 1970′s, after all. Only Jim was not dorky. And neither was his band. Probably.
Why the heck is this such an issue? And how do hookers or strippers compare to young believers who are trying to share the gospel? Honestly, Dennis, I think your arguments are bizarre. Fun, but bizarre. Using a tract as a way to share the gospel is akin to smoking or gambling…what the heck?
It seems like you have great success in sharing the gospel, that you have seen much fruit and many people coming to faith in Christ, probably have a gift of evangelism. Could you elaborate? I’m (really) unclear about the proper biblical way to share the gospel if it is not trusting in God to lead as he wills and using scripture to proclaim the glories of the Lord.
As others have said, let’s just be. Let others be. Let the Holy Spirit do work.
What does this have to do with SGM???
Thanks for the chance to comment,
Love from RT, a fellow ass.
God used Charles Manson’s right hand man “Tex Watson”, to reach my cold heart. After reading his bought “Will you Die For Me? I was convinced that if God could forgive someone as evil as Watson then He could forgive me, and I thought I was too far gone.
I had a friend tell me that he was stoned out of his mind listening to a Pat Benatar album when she sang “Treat Me Right”, and he immediately fell to his knees and repented because he said he felt it was Jesus speaking to him through what she sang. Today, 30 years later, he is an elder in a community church.
I had someone ask me “you and you’re wife reach so many people for Christ, what is your formula?”
I said “Formula?, the Beatles had it right when they sang “All You Need is Love”, because if you don’t love the lost and see them as God does, you will have no desire to see them worshiping along side you for eternity. (I just scanned back and saw that I plagiarized Canary)
I also do love the quote that was probably mentioned earlier in this dialog- ” Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” Francis of Assisi
If people see you come at them as some sort of quota they see right through it. That’s probably why I don’t like the Jack Chic track stuff, but I’m sure someone somewhere got saved reading one. Like I always say “with a shotgun, even a blind hunter’s gonna get a deer eventually”
I came to be interested in Jesus through the movie “Jesus Christ, Super Star” – talk about a faulty gospel – and yet the gospel was in there somewhere. It wasn’t too many years after watching that movie as a young teen that I accepted the Lord into my heart. Unfortunately, legalistic churches got hold of me. Didn’t learn about grace till mid-life. Sad, huh?
Paul, I stand corrected about the quote I attributed to Martin Luther (preach the gospel at all times, if necessary use words). I read it in one of his writings – must have been quoting Saint Francis.
YEP Paul…………exactly!