So here’s what we know.
From twitter:
“Jeff Purswell just taught through an 18 page outline on church polity in 3 hrs. Great start to #t4g2010“
From a pastor’s blog:
“Monday evening and Tuesday morning we gathered as Sovereign Grace pastors to hear 2 substantial messages by Jeff Purswell that helped to clarify, deepen and expand our understanding of polity–that is, how local churches are to be governed and led. We were reminded again of the great privilege of being called to lead and to care for God’s people, and of the importance of understanding as well as we can how God intends for his church to be structured.”
Based on what I’ve heard, it appears that “lay elders” are a part of the conversation. It also seems that the role of apostles is being reexamined. My understanding is that Purswell’s treatise may not be the final word regarding polity at this time. I think, loosely translated, that Purswell said that lay elders are not prohibited.
That’s it for now. More to come…
“to help clarify, deepen and expand our understanding of polity”…that sounds to me like a lot of words that really mean….we don’t know what we are doing, and local churches are spinning out of control…..
I wonder if Jeff Purswell knows the song…here we go round the mulberry bush…..
Charlie,
I wonder if Jeff Purswell knows the song…here we go round the mulberry bush…..
Ha! Like a circle that goes no where but round and round and roung…oy, I’m feeling dizzy…
How interesting. It appears to me that SGM polity is one of those areas where they thought nobody else in Christian history had it right, so they had to re-invent the wheel — only they made it square. If they are indeed re-structuring, it’s a great opportunity. I’m praying for the best.
When I read the following quote from Jim’s post, I could’ve sworn that it was written by the SP of my former SGM church. The syntax had his name written all over it. I could HEAR those words coming out of his mouth. So I checked the website to see , but it wasn’t on his blog. I guess we are all fluent in SGM-ese.
“Monday evening and Tuesday morning we gathered as Sovereign Grace pastors to hear 2 substantial messages by Jeff Purswell that helped to clarify, deepen and expand our understanding of polity–that is, how local churches are to be governed and led. We were reminded again of the great privilege of being called to lead and to care for God’s people, and of the importance of understanding as well as we can how God intends for his church to be structured.”
Yeah, Square Peg, I know what you mean!
I love the “called to lead” thing. I wonder if they got the part that leadership translated into serving, the part of being a sheep dog gathering the sheep and pointing them to the real Shepard instead of acting as the mediator between God and man. That role has already been perfectly filled.
While I am praying for the best, several points need to be addressed:
1) We still know absolutely nothing, zilch, nada, negative, etc. in regard to what was actually said by Purswell at that meeting. The criticism of our polity has been very public, from within and from without (I fall in both categories) so I am wondering what is so “top secret” about it and why they are saving it up for a special occasion. I am so sick and tired of these US and THEM scenarios between leadership and the flock, that I quite frankly don’t know to express myself in words how it saddens me.
2) We at SGM have had thirty-plus years to develop our polity; to be generous, we’ve had at least a decade to address questions and concerns both privately and publicly that have been voiced; to be ultra-generous, we’re closing in on three years when it began to be openly analyzed and criticized on the blogosphere and the remainder of the web.
3) A review of polity and what it is simply does not make for a polity change. We’ve been champs at reviewing what we’ve already established, so if it’s eighteen pages of fluffy we might change our minds with an insurance policy that the role of “apostle” is still in tact and even fluorishing during this “review” period, then it’s an insult to have even had these meetings and essentially lead those of us on who have been hopeful for desperately needed change.
Brothers in Christ, the time for change is now. The time for the ship to turn is now. The time to stop insulting, trampling on and darkly patronizing the sheep is over.
Leadership has been made aware of this situation/travesty (that poor polity practices destroy and/or mar the beauty of the church and its saints) for some time, both on a personal and public level.
All of you know my name, number and email addresses if you have any questions or concerns regarding my current statements or the nature of my position on and off these blogs (which is the same). I may not speak for everyone in terms of the ideal polity, but I certainly do speak for those who have been and are despairing.
Let me make myself as clear as possible on this: I do not fear your retribution in any way whatsoever, so please keep it off the table as I will simply knock it off. To say this affects me, my spouse, our family ties and life at church would be the understatement of the century.
I am forced to put all of it on the line, because my conscience on this matter is eating me alive, and it won’t anymore.
Leaders, please consider the scripture passage I started and ended my article on polity with.
Now is the time for good and lasting change.
Thank you Jim and Carole (and many others) for latching onto this like a fiesty bloodhound and not letting go.
–jw
it appears that “lay elders” are a part of the conversation It also seems that the role of apostles is being reexamined. . I think, loosely translated, that Purswell said that lay elders are not prohibited.
This is pretty significant stuff for SGM and, if true, it is encouraging and i would think that this is what many here have been hoping would occur.
Regarding apostles, I did hear many years ago that Mark Dever and some of his pastors were amused at the idea that SGM had apostles.
This sounds very interesting. If real changes are made, it will be good. My concern is the motivation behind the changes – Spirit driven or man driven???? What would the state of things be if refuge and survivors had not entered the scene?
“Lay elders are not prohibited…?” I’m lamenting the division between clergy and laity again…
PK — you’re the bomb. Hang in there — don’t grow weary in well-doing. You’re there for such a time as this.
We had lay elders at my exSGc. There was a leadership team comprised of the staff pastors and several non-staff men. All these men were known as and referred to as elders by staff and congregation. In all cases while I was on staff the lay elders sided with the sr pastor. Differences of opinion, ultimately, were not tolerated. This facade and lack of integrity was a big reason why I left leadership.
Former SG Pastor
Square Peg,
The title of Purswell’s lecture could have been: “SGM- The Clergy/Laity distinction is as strong as ever.”
I just read the document. He said some good things that needed to be said, but the Chicken that informs the polity Egg remains the same. Pastors lead and the congregation follows. There will be no shared authority within SGM if this document represents the “new” polity statement. It is ALL in the hands of the pastors.
Square Peg said: “How interesting. It appears to me that SGM polity is one of those areas where they thought nobody else in Christian history had it right, so they had to re-invent the wheel — only they made it square. ”
Re-invent? It really isn’t that far from the Catholic model is it?
“Pope: Head of the church, he is based at the Vatican. The pope is infallible in defining matters of faith and morals.”
Jim said: “The title of Purswell’s lecture could have been: “SGM- The Clergy/Laity distinction is as strong as ever.”
I just read the document. He said some good things that needed to be said, but the Chicken that informs the polity Egg remains the same. Pastors lead and the congregation follows. There will be no shared authority within SGM if this document represents the “new” polity statement. It is ALL in the hands of the pastors.”
It’s that mixed surprised/not surprised and disgusted feeling I have right now. The kid who knows the sucker punch is coming, but still has an inkling of hope he can befirends and reconcile. That is snuffed out, and the wind is knocked out of me again.
Shame on me. Shame on us. Shame on SGM. Shame on them. Shame on us for creating and nurturing such a caste system that is as far from the scriptural servant-is-leader-is-servant model. Shame on them for disrupting so many lives and our acts of introversion, exclusivity and phariseeism. Shame on our cults of personality and erecting statues to men rather than altars to God. Shame is what I feel right now. I could crawl under a rock right now, and I think it is appropriate to do so, albeit briefly. Maybe under the shadow of His wing is better place.
Everyone on this blog, and on sgm survivors: I may have disagreed on finer points with you and may still in the future, but forgive me for ever defending SGM to you, for any of the phariseeism, for straining gnats out of the minutiae that is meaningless filthy rags in terms of our slavation. Forgive me.
For any members of my family reading this, I am not attacking you, and please have the temerity and wisdom to know that I’m not…don’t let anyone convince you that I am attacking you.
Right now I just want PD (my sweet and loving wifey) and I to bask in the presence of God. His holiness, His mercy, the joy of our salvation.
My mind keeps going back to Peter in Acts 2, his call for repentance and his assurance that those who do will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. I want my mind’s eye to dwell on sweet things. Peter, Paul, John and co. THAT’s the apostolic coverage I want. Christ is the Head of the church that I want. I want Christ.
God forgive me for ever placing my hope in men.
–jw
You are returning to the simplicity of knowing Jesus. I rejoice with you in this! I pray for God’s sabbath rest (Hebrews) to fall upon you and your wife.
All,
This Polity stuff has soooo many layers, its overwhelming, to me, to take in.
Jim, as you condensed…”ALL is (still) in the hands of the pastors”—pretty much shows the man-in-charge stance which “rules” this denomination/company/familyof churches.
There has been No responsibility from the Gaithersberg Hill for their errored doctrines and abusive destructive counseling that occurred for years. No public admission of their sin against Gods people and God Himself. Blame is laid at the feet of the errant local pastor. The local pastors follow the outline/m.o. of sgm doctrine and polity. So many pastors and ‘leaders’ are products (whether they realize it or not) of their intensely trained religous environment. We have witnessed a generation of the children grow up……….critical thinking has been discouraged in them; priority alleigance to the sgm way of doing church is utmost in their hearts (usurping the Voice of Jesus Christ and leading of Holy Spirit)…Like their adult fellow congregants they know the lingo, the focus on sin,the shunning stance to those who have left and voiced their alarm—its all a continued orchard of fruit that will continue to reproduce after itself…….until the foundational structure that is known as sgm is torn down, repented of, renounced, and serious crying out to God and seeking Him to possibly “rebuild”—well, thats this sheeps perspective.
The Refuge blog has revealed abusive counseling and ‘pastoring’–blowing the lid off the pharisitical pastors,leaders, and apostles. I pray they will tread softly when ‘counseling’ abused women and children. I pray they will cease misleading their people. I pray they will cease to counsel abused victims to first look at their own sins. I pray they will discern good from evil and the very real danger they perpetuate on their own people because of operation in religousness.—Any continuation of abusing and mauling the Bride?— we will continue to watch and sound the alarms.
PK,
Just read your latest post— I remember whenwe were beginning to go through our ‘storm’—I would walk around the house saying the Name of Jesus—and realizing I had not heard His Name in so very very long—and a Jeremy Camp song “Give me Jesus” I would crank up and sing ————-yes—running into the shelter of the Most High and proclaiming His Name is the most wonderful balm…….Blessings to yall……..
Waters-expect SGM Inc to further distance themselves from any responsibility.
PK -
I feel your pain. I really do (ask Jim or Irv). I was a SGM apologist for too long. I still have people very close to me who are happily (for the time being) enmeshed in SGM. The road out has not been painless and just when I think/thought it could get no darker … it did.
That said, I am better out than I was in.
Praying for you,
Former SG Pastor
PK ~
Jesus love you, this I know.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ pk & wifey }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
love yous!
:]
Dear PK,
When my kids were little and they’d do something really bad and I was completely flummoxed with how to respond, sometimes I’d hear in my ear the voice of some nag saying, “Shame on you!” and I’d think, “No! Grace. Grace on you.” None of us need any more shame in our lives. Especially those of us living under the SGM umbrella of shame. (Something like Get Smart’s Cone of Silence, it makes it impossible to hear what those outside of yourself are saying.)
So to you, my dear brother, please let me say, “Grace. Grace to you. Grace on you. Grace above, below and surrounding you.” You have no reason to feel shame. You are human and stupid and smart and silly, just like the rest of us. Sometimes we see clearly, sometimes we think we see clearly and find out we never did. That’s why it’s important to tread lightly with those we disagree with. (Clearly I have yet to learn this lesson.) And that’s why we must give lots of grace and love to them and lots of grace and love to ourselves. So please, dear brother, give yourself lots of grace. You need it, even if you can’t see it right now.
Your sister in Christ,
Stunned
who hopes she wasn’t being too bossy here but only wants to be a support to you
PK & PD – May God BLESS you!
You know we have nothing but blessings and prayer for both of you and your sweet souls.
As I read your post, PK I was also thinking of Jeremy Camp’s version of “Give me Jesus” so I hope you both will sing it loud and strong in your darkest moments.
You know as well as the rest of us that GRACE is God’s gift to you. So I wish you grace from Jesus. Not the kind that is spoken but has strings of works & approval attached.
“Singing psalms and hymns and spritual songs”….I wish you healing and comfort for whatever the days ahead may hold. My personal anthem of freedom in Jesus was sung at our new congregation with tears streaming as I would sing “In Christ Alone.”
Both of these sweet musical devotions are centered on our sweet Savior and Lord Jesus.
God bless you both.
Hey all,
This stuff sounds a lot like the Vineyard Christian Fellowship where I was a pastor. Left 5 years ago. Now I’m at SGM but you all have me a bit nervous. I had to leave VCF for abusive authority made possible because of an undefined polity other than a general belief the the sr. pastor was the boss. Elders, if VCF churches even had them were just “yes men” for the sr. pastor. To make matters worst, the polity at the regional and national level was even worst, essentially non-existent. The regional and national levels amounted to a “good ole boy’s club;” the names have hardly changed in 25 years! Still the same people. There is no fresh perspective, nor room for theological/ministry discussion, let alone debate. But, I left. It cost me a lot to do so but I’m not bitter about it. I’ve seen a lot of abuse and forced “hush hush” pressure and threats put on people. Many “pastors” in these “authoritarian and power” roles can’t handle the authority and power. Their insecure sin natures makes them vulnerable to the corrupting effects of such “heady” power and they become abusive. But I’ve seen this same phenom in business, in school, and in politics. It’s just a sin problem in every body of human gatherings. You’ve been just as mal-treated at work, at school, etc. as in the church. We should not be so surprised that it shows up in the church gatherings also. Although my position is that in the church gatherings, we ought to be more aware than the secular gatherings of this condition of human nature being something that is BAD and as such we should be purposefully attentive to avoiding its adoption. And like all sin problems we should be eagerly and joyously submitting it to the redemptive work of Christ through confession, repentance, and forgiveness. We should NOT be defending it. I don’t care if the defense is made in the name of “leadership,” “apostleship,” “eldership,” or even worst, “Jesus.” The nature of Christ is humble and redemptive. So should be the goal of all Christian’s, i.e. to grow more humble and redemptive, like Christ our Savior. And Church leaders ought to be first in this line so they can be models for the rest of God’s dear children.
As a pastor, I don’t know if I will associate with SGM or not. I had enough of this insecurity and power politicking in the VCF. All I want to do is faithfully follow God’s call on my life to love and serve the beautiful bride of Christ my Lord and Savior. Pastors remember Ezek. 34.
srj,
I can understand why you’re “nervous.” You should be.
Keep your eyes and ears WIDE OPEN at your SG church, pray for discernment, and keep reading.
- Kindred