Comments on: So Metro….

By: Leonard

Leonard — Sun, 23 May 2010 01:54:05 +0000

Metro come on Benny teaching Christian Counseling is like Mike Nash doing heart surgey and I trust Mike would at least he Pray first. The leaders did a good show telling us they care .

Look at all we lost in the last 6 months. Yes they do care for themselves

By: Stunned

Stunned — Mon, 17 May 2010 14:30:43 +0000

Hey Paul, I just found your response. Thank you for your grace. Hoping you have a lovely day.

Stunned

By: Bruised

Bruised — Fri, 07 May 2010 19:24:25 +0000

Paul,
That is my prayer as well.
That eyes be opened.. I still love them all dearly but have suffered hurt from being among them………. But the again. We live in a fallen world where we do sin and certainly NEED THE GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST!

By: Paul

Paul — Fri, 07 May 2010 18:59:55 +0000

Stunned, Thank you. Blogs, like email can be a terrible way to communicate. For instance, you were referring to strapless gowns and I was envisioning some of the “wedding” gowns that I have seen Hollywood use as another excuse to show some more skin. You were talking “tomatoes” and I was referring to “dachshunds.”
I guess the main point of what I was trying to get at can be found in 1 Corinthians 10
23″Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”[c]
27If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28But if anyone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience’ sake[d]— 29the other man’s conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another’s conscience? 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
Another point I wanted to get at was that if CJ’s daughter feels a conviction about this, it is her conviction and should be respected. I don’t want to be an ex-SGM member bitter and hateful towards anything that comes from the mouth of anyone from SGM.
It would take pages to tell of all the ways that my wife and I have been blessed over the years by God working through teaching (some faulty), love, fellowship and care of us as we battled many cancers, and surgeries and it would hinder my prayers to dwell, in bitterness, on any of the negatives. I do pray that the eyes of these men could be opened so that, like the International Church of Christ there could be widespread repentance from the top down. It happened with the ICC and The Worldwide Church of God, so why can’t I pray that it might happen with the church I was with for decades?
That does not make me sit back quietly, but it makes me want to choose my words more carefully.

By: Stunned

Stunned — Thu, 06 May 2010 11:45:05 +0000

Paul,

Last night in homegroup we were studying Romans 12:9-21. It’s scripture that talks about love. I thought about you during our discussion and thought about how I had not spoken to you with love in my heart yesterday. I’m very sorry for that and regret it. I wish I had the wisdom to always know how to make my point while still walking in love. I’m afraid it’ll be a long time before I get there. Til then, I’m sorry I didn’t speak to you in love.

Stunned

By: Paul

Paul — Thu, 06 May 2010 11:35:52 +0000

“So Metro…………………..”
Has the exodus ended or are folks still trickling out the doors as they see “same old, same old”?

By: Stunned

Stunned — Thu, 06 May 2010 11:10:08 +0000

when people try to use the Law to battle sin, more sin follows.

Amen, amen and amen!!!!!! When are people going to get it?

AKS, yes. Your point is exactly what I was trying to say regarding the … um….errr… butt country. It sounds like a place you almost wouldn’t want to send your daughters no matter how much they were wearing. Where women are seen as objects, violence against them is easily begotten.

By: A Kindred Spirit

A Kindred Spirit — Wed, 05 May 2010 23:57:01 +0000

Jim, my 7:04 is in moderation.

By: Defender

Defender — Wed, 05 May 2010 23:29:37 +0000

I went to school back in the 80′s with a guy from Saudi Arabia.
He didn’t “Ogle” the girls like his fellow country-men did.
In the early 90′s I went to Saudi Arabia as a defense contractor and took a day to go see my friend in Riyadh. While walking through the mall in Riyadh, I made a humorous comment about the posters of the fashion models in the store windows and how they were very attractive, but their eyes were blacked out like with thick electrical tape.
He rolled his eyes and told me how when men are forbidden to look at women (As is in Saudi Arabia) they lust for the women all the more. Because he was an employee of Saudia (the kingdom Airline) he traveled to Europe as often as he could, and spent many weekends on the beaches of the French Riviera. (Think about that, nude beaches.)
He said that he and the other men who traveled like that did not “burn” so much as his fellow countrymen who could only gaze with imagination at the burkua’s passing by.
He was embarrassed for the lusty men in his country.
So there ya have it, when people try to use the Law to battle sin, more sin follows.

By: A Kindred Spirit

A Kindred Spirit — Wed, 05 May 2010 23:04:14 +0000

Back to the narcissist conversation... It's been my personal observation that SGM does indeed have a large number of "narcissists" among them. In fact, they seem to attract them. Kris and I have discussed this numerous times over at the survivors' blog. We all have a little "narcissist" in us from time to time, but there are those in SGM that have enough of the symptoms on a consistent basis to actually be labeled as such. There are a series of 5 posts on the "Wittenberg Gate" blog titled, "Controlling Personalities in the Church" that are an excellent read on the topic for those interested. http://dory.typepad.com/wittenberg_gate/2005/05/controlling_per.html

By: A Kindred Spirit

A Kindred Spirit — Wed, 05 May 2010 22:41:36 +0000

I wouldn’t advise any “missionary plumbers” going to THAT particular country.

By: A Kindred Spirit

A Kindred Spirit — Wed, 05 May 2010 21:56:59 +0000

I have another friend who did some summer missionary work in a country where they had a thing for “butts.”

(Yeah, I realize there are men who like “butts” in our country, too. I’m familiar with the songs “I like big butts and I cannot lie” and “fat bottomed girls.”)

All the girls who went on the mission trip were told to make sure they had extra long, baggy T-shirts that would completely cover their butts. I saw the clothes my friend packed and the pictures from that summer. Trust me, there was absolutely *NOTHING* sexy about what these girls wore. Long skirts to their ankles with those XXX-Large, long t-shirts. She said the men in that country were HORRIBLE!! She had NEVER seen anything like it.

Here was a country where the women were mostly covered from head to toe and the men were sex-crazed maniacs. She said you could literally see the “lust” in their eyes.

By: A Kindred Spirit

A Kindred Spirit — Wed, 05 May 2010 21:24:01 +0000

Stunned…we are INDEED “kindred spirits!!”

Preach on, sister!!

I am with you, girl!!

I have several friends who are missionaries in other countries where the climate is hot and the women walk around scantily clothed all the time. They all have commented that they were amazed that it didn’t affect the men there. What amazed them even more is that after spending some time there, they, too, became “unaffected” by it.

They would wholeheartedly agree with you, Stunned.

We are a messed up bunch when it comes to sex, and unfortunately, “God’s people” can be some of the worst.

By: Stunned

Stunned — Wed, 05 May 2010 20:27:29 +0000

Seriously, I’ve never gotten upset (not turned on for that matter) when a plumber (or any other person) bent down in front of me and I saw that. I understood that that is life sometimes. I certainly don’t consider it immodest when a plumber bends down and that happens. You know why that happens? Maybe he’s a bigger guy and it’s difficult to find clothes that fit just so. That and a person in that profession, at least when they’re working, is often wearing a rather heavy tool belt, which will weigh their clothes down even more. I respect the men and women who work as plumbers. And if their work causes them to be in situations where the tops of their cheeks are revealed, it’s by no means going to annoy me. I’m just grateful for all concerned that they are working.

(BTW, I’ve never had that hit me between the eyes, but, wow. I’d imagine that could cause bruising. Sorry it’s happened to you.)

By: Jim

Jim — Wed, 05 May 2010 19:38:00 +0000

sheesh Paul…

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 05 May 2010 19:32:06 +0000

Stunned,

And by the way, Paul. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent over at good old Girl Talk, but we are NOT talking about exposing 90% of the breast. (I don’t believe we ever even mentioned breasts. Where’s your mind, Paul?) If you went to read what we were discussing, you would know that that site condemns women for going strapless. STRAPLESS. STRAPLESS?!?!
Never spend any time at the Girl Talk
Didn’t know you were talking about strapless. I was thinking of the weddings I have been to and – yes – when the bride bends down at the table to greet the visitors -THE GIRLS are in your face – that is immodest, in the same way when the plumber squats and the crack hits you between the eyes.
But anyhow – getting back to

“So Metro…………………..”

By: Ellie

Ellie — Wed, 05 May 2010 17:36:21 +0000

~high five~
Stunned,
I’m stunned.
GREAT post.

By: Stunned

Stunned — Wed, 05 May 2010 11:14:22 +0000

I think it is appropriate to consider what we wear in what situations.
BTW, no one said we should not consider what is appropriate in some situations. No one suggested any such thing. But is it appropriate to be putting in your daughter’s brain that the very friends and family she is close enough to invite to her wedding might actually be viewing her as nothing but an object as she marches toward her husband to be?! NOOO. If that is the case, it is better to purge your life of such scum bags than to objectify your child like that. It is sick and twisted.

And what of the women that God created with incredibly large breasts? It’s not like they can hide those babies out of the way somewhere. Cover ‘em up all you want and you still have incredibly large breasts. What are those women to think of themselves? Are they to think that even their closest friends will objectify them from the time they are 12 to 70? Scummy men will, yes. But friends and family? Baby, you better get new friends and family.

And yes, you can’t control who shows up to see you get married. If some perv shows up, some perv shows up. But to dress or not dress for those evil people? NO! Let me say it again. NO!

And by the way, Paul. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent over at good old Girl Talk, but we are NOT talking about exposing 90% of the breast. (I don’t believe we ever even mentioned breasts. Where’s your mind, Paul?) If you went to read what we were discussing, you would know that that site condemns women for going strapless. STRAPLESS. STRAPLESS?!?! Your friends and family are going to get a hard on for seeing you in an elegant STRAPLESS DRESS?!?!? Are you freaking kidding me? If some one gets excited seeing a friend or family member in an elegant strapless wedding gown then it is the observer with the problem and the bride should NOT be forgoing the dress she has her heart set on to accomodate that perv. Heck, if he gets a turn on from that, he’ll get a turn on from a burka.

The change should not be with the dress but the friends.

If you think I am angry you are 100% correct. I have been objectified since I was 12. It doesn’t matter how you dress or don’t dress. It doesn’t matter the purity of your hear or the filth of it. I know men who have raped 3 year olds. Do you think it was the 3 year old who did something wrong? No. It is the pervert. It is always with the sinner, not the one who is being sinned against. As a result I have allowed myself to gain 30 extra pounds in the past 4 year because I was scared. Scared of filthy dirty perverts who hide their issues and try to put it on the woman. Well guess what, if you fall in love with a woman, or lust after her or anything in between, unless she is sinning (as in what the bible says is sin and not CJ/Carolyn/SGM “sin”) then that is on you. NOT on her. I’m sick of letting the pervs win this one. Enough.

I’d like to tell all of them to go do to themselves what they want to do to women they lust after. Get it over with and leave the rest of society alone to go on our way.

By: Stunned

Stunned — Wed, 05 May 2010 10:58:35 +0000

Wow, Paul. What weddings have you been to? And which strip joints?

I couldn’t resist. Sorry.

I have been to many weddings and in many weddings. As have my male friends. My loud, vocal, “worldly” and somewhat perverted male friends. And none of them have ever had those same thougths. (Yeah, I talk to my male friends about this.) I find that I’ve seldom seen a wedding dress that shows more cleavage than what you can see on any street on any given day. Is this a struggle for many men? I wonder if it would be for a person living, say in, Miami, who sees string bikinis all day long or at least string bikini tops. Is there possibly a desensitization process that happens where people see this thing and stop de-personalizing women to the point that they no longer get turned on? Or possibly for some men, the woman is another human being and not a sexual object. I mean, I know men who see scantily clad women and don’t think of them sexually but sadly. (And yes, these are men with raging sex hormones.) But they don’t objectify women as sexual objects but as people. Sometimes broken people, but people nonetheless. I still see the problem being with the observer.

Basically it comes down to this: How come some men can see a woman in stripper clothes and get turned on while other men see her and ache that she doesn’t know how valuable she is and see the sexual damage done to her sometime in her life? Riddle me that and then we’ll start to get some where.

PS. 90% of her breast? Mathematically that would have to mean she is wearing pasties. And tiny ones at that.

By: nickname

nickname — Wed, 05 May 2010 05:00:33 +0000

Hmm. I’ve never been to a wedding where the wedding gown was in any way immodest or licentious. (And believe me, in my profession, I’ve been to more weddings than your average bear).