Comments on: Out of the Frying Pan and into the Fire or Happy Days are Here Again? http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/ a safe haven Tue, 22 May 2012 14:02:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Collateral Damage http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-17529 Collateral Damage Wed, 12 May 2010 13:57:20 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-17529 TforJC: The ex-SGM pastor there came from the Sarasota church plant. Has 6 kids. Elderly mother lives with them. TforJC: The ex-SGM pastor there came from the Sarasota church plant. Has 6 kids. Elderly mother lives with them.

]]> By: bruised http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-17526 bruised Wed, 12 May 2010 13:40:45 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-17526 goodness. correction - I felt that maybe I was still called to be a part of SG............please forgive my hurried typing! goodness.
correction – I felt that maybe I was still called to be a part of SG…………please forgive my hurried typing!

]]> By: bruised http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-17525 bruised Wed, 12 May 2010 13:39:02 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-17525 G McK was my counsel when engaged to the man from SG. I always stayed with he and his wife..................... I went to Denver and visited as well.. Felt maybe I was stilled called to SG without my fiance'................ once engagement was called off. I was cast out! G McK
was my counsel when engaged to the man from SG.
I always stayed with he and his wife…………………
I went to Denver and visited as well.. Felt maybe I was stilled called to SG without my fiance’…………….
once engagement was called off.
I was cast out!

]]> By: TforJC http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-17512 TforJC Wed, 12 May 2010 05:20:12 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-17512 Guys, I go to the N Denver church... who is the pastor from Florida????  I am a member and am totally out of the loop here.  Why did DB leave? Guys, I go to the N Denver church… who is the pastor from Florida????  I am a member and am totally out of the loop here.  Why did DB leave?

]]> By: Doc http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-15736 Doc Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:13:03 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-15736 CD---- no audio from the meeting. We'll wait and see in regards to your 2nd question. CD—- no audio from the meeting. We’ll wait and see in regards to your 2nd question.

]]> By: Collateral Damage http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-15735 Collateral Damage Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:58:00 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-15735 Is there any audio to this family meeting? Also, how's the new transplanted SGM pastor from Florida doing there in the N. Denver church? Is he on staff yet? Is there any audio to this family meeting? Also, how’s the new transplanted SGM pastor from Florida doing there in the N. Denver church? Is he on staff yet?

]]> By: Doc http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-15734 Doc Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:06:34 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-15734 Longtime reader from the wild west, here. Barging in to comment on the state of the union, I mean, Grace Community church (North Denver). It's been a month now since Sr Pastor GMck presided over the very high security "Family Meeting": Expectant answers/reasons for the departure of former Sr Pastor DB were dropped into a bottomless bucket.  Maybe leadership decided silence was the best answer. Or maybe its just left to the many people (some who have already left and those who stay) that can figure it out because of personal 'experiences'.   Or maybe  "grace"  was extended when it became evident DB evolved into a product of the legalistic SGM Company. And the production line continues with GMck------ A poster (Be Bold) above spoke concern for Grace Community when stated:  "I grieve for the Denver church. They can't possibly know how their foundations are going to be shaken and they likely won't notice the cracks in the building until the soil is sifted like sand underneath them."     Will Grace Community stay afloat? There are ALREADY 'grievous' cracks that have been plastered over. The walls that contain the cracks stand on the sandy foundation that is named Sovereign Grace Ministries.  A sandy foundation shifts; is unsteady; causes holes to fall into.  For awhile the building on sandy foundation can stand, propping itself up to look like a strong rock---but it's not The Rock. God is God.  He sees.  He knows all. Sadly, we are watching what happens when leaders and or a ministry (SGM) have: "...misled My people by saying 'Peace!'  when there is no peace. And when anyone builds a wall, behold, they plaster it over with whitewash."-- Ezekiel 13:10 As I reread the posts from this thread, the very  clear synopsis of why the trumpets of alarm continue is, I believe, given in a sentence from a post by "PK":            "The Truth and the Gospel should never be so complicated that it stifles the simple               removal of ill practices that have produced ill shepherds, ill sheep, and thus an ill              Bride."      Denver and all SGM sheep--look to The Bridegroom, Jesus. He is the way, the Truth and the Life.  He is the Rock of our Salvation.   He's not a rule-giver.  He is Life.   Longtime reader from the wild west, here. Barging in to comment on the state of the union, I mean, Grace Community church (North Denver).

It’s been a month now since Sr Pastor GMck presided over the very high security “Family Meeting”:
Expectant answers/reasons for the departure of former Sr Pastor DB were dropped into a bottomless bucket.  Maybe leadership decided silence was the best answer. Or maybe its just left to the many people (some who have already left and those who stay) that can figure it out because of personal ‘experiences’.   Or maybe  “grace”  was extended when it became evident DB evolved into a product of the legalistic SGM Company.

And the production line continues with GMck——

A poster (Be Bold) above spoke concern for Grace Community when stated: 
“I grieve for the Denver church. They can’t possibly know how their foundations are going to be shaken and they likely won’t notice the cracks in the building until the soil is sifted like sand underneath them.”

    Will Grace Community stay afloat?

There are ALREADY ‘grievous’ cracks that have been plastered over. The walls that contain the cracks stand on the sandy foundation that is named Sovereign Grace Ministries.  A sandy foundation shifts; is unsteady; causes holes to fall into.  For awhile the building on sandy foundation can stand, propping itself up to look like a strong rock—but it’s not The Rock.

God is God.  He sees.  He knows all.
Sadly, we are watching what happens when leaders and or a ministry (SGM) have:
“…misled My people by saying ‘Peace!’  when there is no peace. And when anyone builds a wall, behold, they plaster it over with whitewash.”– Ezekiel 13:10

As I reread the posts from this thread, the very  clear synopsis of why the trumpets of alarm continue is, I believe, given in a sentence from a post by “PK”:
           “The Truth and the Gospel should never be so complicated that it stifles the simple 
             removal of ill practices that have produced ill shepherds, ill sheep, and thus an ill
             Bride.”
    

Denver and all SGM sheep–look to The Bridegroom, Jesus. He is the way, the Truth and the Life.  He is the Rock of our Salvation.   He’s not a rule-giver.  He is Life.
 

]]> By: Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14816 Jim Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:43:14 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14816 <p>John-sure thing.</p> John-sure thing.

]]> By: John Galt http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14815 John Galt Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:25:28 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14815 Jim, I would like to send you some info can you contact me through my email??? Jim, I would like to send you some info can you contact me through my email???

]]> By: 5yearsinPDI http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14814 5yearsinPDI Sat, 09 Jan 2010 14:53:05 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14814 <em> All the adjectives were defining for me the poor interpretation and practice of Calvinism at SGM. I currently attend a church that would call its doctrine Calvinistic, but the life experienced there is so completely different–like walking from a smoke filled room into fresh mountain air!!! </em> Precisely!  My experience as well.  All the adjectives were defining for me the poor interpretation and practice of Calvinism at SGM. I currently attend a church that would call its doctrine Calvinistic, but the life experienced there is so completely different–like walking from a smoke filled room into fresh mountain air!!!

Precisely!  My experience as well.

]]> By: John Galt http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14813 John Galt Sat, 09 Jan 2010 10:38:10 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14813 Flotsam and Jetsam-- so sorry to hear what happened to you in Colorado. So enjoyed working together on the Star Trek skits!!! You are loved and missed. BTW, i got married-finally in Nov of '06. You would love my wife-she makes me look so much better than i am!!! Flotsam and Jetsam– so sorry to hear what happened to you in Colorado. So enjoyed working together on the Star Trek skits!!! You are loved and missed. BTW, i got married-finally in Nov of ’06. You would love my wife-she makes me look so much better than i am!!!

]]> By: John Galt http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14812 John Galt Sat, 09 Jan 2010 10:34:05 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14812 5yearsinpdi--wasn't throwing Calvinism under the bus. All the adjectives were defining for me the poor interpretation and practice of Calvinism at SGM. I currently attend a church that would call its doctrine Calvinistic, but the life experienced there is so completely different--like walking from a smoke filled room into fresh mountain air!!! The main point is that there is a great life awaiting those who leave SGM. it may hurt for a season, but the Lord will see you through to the other side of the pain and into a joy fulled life in Christ!!! 5yearsinpdi–wasn’t throwing Calvinism under the bus. All the adjectives were defining for me the poor interpretation and practice of Calvinism at SGM. I currently attend a church that would call its doctrine Calvinistic, but the life experienced there is so completely different–like walking from a smoke filled room into fresh mountain air!!!
The main point is that there is a great life awaiting those who leave SGM. it may hurt for a season, but the Lord will see you through to the other side of the pain and into a joy fulled life in Christ!!!

]]> By: Square Peg http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14811 Square Peg Sat, 09 Jan 2010 06:45:06 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14811 Defended --  Once again, I am staring openmouthed at my computer.  Never in my entire life have I ever heard of such a horrific and ridiculous policy -- that a newly-saved person was denied the opportunity for Bible study because her newly-saved husband should disciple her.  The blind leading the blind.  This is nuts.  SGM has gone farther off the rocker than I previously thought.  And I thought they were pretty far off.   Where in the world is common sense? Are the SGM pastors having some kind of contest to see who can be the most controlling?  Or maybe just the kookiest?  Lord, Jesus, come quickly.  Defended –  Once again, I am staring openmouthed at my computer.  Never in my entire life have I ever heard of such a horrific and ridiculous policy — that a newly-saved person was denied the opportunity for Bible study because her newly-saved husband should disciple her.  The blind leading the blind.  This is nuts.  SGM has gone farther off the rocker than I previously thought.  And I thought they were pretty far off.   Where in the world is common sense?

Are the SGM pastors having some kind of contest to see who can be the most controlling? 
Or maybe just the kookiest? 

Lord, Jesus, come quickly. 

]]> By: musicman http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14810 musicman Sat, 09 Jan 2010 05:15:30 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14810 Dorothy- I'm sorry for the hurt you've endured... Peace to you-MM Dorothy-
I’m sorry for the hurt you’ve endured…
Peace to you-MM

]]> By: 5yearsinPDI http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14809 5yearsinPDI Sat, 09 Jan 2010 03:54:00 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14809 <em>      Well, I can testify that there is abundant life once you remove yourself from the life defying, legalistic, overbearing authoritative, cross-centered calvinism that is SGM.</em> A minor clarification.  SGM is not cross centered Calvinism. Do NOT reject Calvinism when you can have the deep and lasting joy of reading men like Edwards,   LLoyd- Jones, Iain Murray, Burroughs, Pink, and hundreds more. Do NOT confuse CJM with godly pious Calvinists who have entered into the deep love and grace of God and the depths of His holy word like few of us ever have. Calvinism is the gospel and man centered Arminianism is error. What you tasted at SGM is NOT true Calvinism.       Well, I can testify that there is abundant life once you remove yourself from the life defying, legalistic, overbearing authoritative, cross-centered calvinism that is SGM.

A minor clarification. 

SGM is not cross centered Calvinism.

Do NOT reject Calvinism when you can have the deep and lasting joy of reading men like Edwards,   LLoyd- Jones, Iain Murray, Burroughs, Pink, and hundreds more. Do NOT confuse CJM with godly pious Calvinists who have entered into the deep love and grace of God and the depths of His holy word like few of us ever have. Calvinism is the gospel and man centered Arminianism is error. What you tasted at SGM is NOT true Calvinism.

]]> By: Defended http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14807 Defended Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:38:54 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14807 re:Jim - oh my goodness. Jim, I don't even know how or what you say to that! When our pastor made a stand that an older woman couldn't take a newly-saved woman into a Bible Study that pastor had no place to go as the godly woman gave him biblical support for her desire and so he shut down the conversation with "if you keep this up I'm going to have to wonder what sin is in your heart that you want to continue to argue with me". sigh. That was 2002 I believe. In CLC-SoDenver. Did that guy take a class in that debate style? Was it used on him? Or is it taught in their leadership retreats? ps - background: this was during a marathon teaching on Titus, and a woman teaching another woman about the Scriptures was purported to be based on Carolyn Mahaney's teaching. It seems this (former) pastor held firm that the newly-saved husband was supposed to disciple his newly-saved wife and that other woman should not do that. Apparently if women try to teach each other sin will result. This was in the context of teaching Titus. Makes no sense to me whatsoever, but it happened. I promise. I'm praying for you all. anomalies abound. re:Jim – oh my goodness. Jim, I don’t even know how or what you say to that!
When our pastor made a stand that an older woman couldn’t take a newly-saved woman into a Bible Study that pastor had no place to go as the godly woman gave him biblical support for her desire and so he shut down the conversation with “if you keep this up I’m going to have to wonder what sin is in your heart that you want to continue to argue with me”. sigh.
That was 2002 I believe. In CLC-SoDenver. Did that guy take a class in that debate style? Was it used on him? Or is it taught in their leadership retreats?

ps – background: this was during a marathon teaching on Titus, and a woman teaching another woman about the Scriptures was purported to be based on Carolyn Mahaney’s teaching. It seems this (former) pastor held firm that the newly-saved husband was supposed to disciple his newly-saved wife and that other woman should not do that. Apparently if women try to teach each other sin will result. This was in the context of teaching Titus. Makes no sense to me whatsoever, but it happened. I promise.

I’m praying for you all. anomalies abound.

]]> By: Sigelman http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14806 Sigelman Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:38:35 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14806 "We received a lavish outpouring of grace Wednesday night! Meetings like this are never easy and so much can easily be misunderstood, but from those I talked to last night after the meeting, God's grace is evident. How grateful I am for that!! Thank you again, for making this time together possible. If you were unable to be with us, we did record the meeting and would be glad to get a copy to you. As you process all you heard, please feel free to contact the pastoral team with any questions or observations you might have. We want to make it easy for you to express your heart and share your observations. "Speaking the truth in love" brings glory to God and good to our church family. ... Join with me in believing for a move of the Holy Spirit at Metro. We need it so much! Danny Jones" “We received a lavish outpouring of grace Wednesday night! Meetings like this are never easy and so much can easily be misunderstood, but from those I talked to last night after the meeting, God’s grace is evident. How grateful I am for that!!
Thank you again, for making this time together possible. If you were unable to be with us, we did record the meeting and would be glad to get a copy to you.
As you process all you heard, please feel free to contact the pastoral team with any questions or observations you might have. We want to make it easy for you to express your heart and share your observations. “Speaking the truth in love” brings glory to God and good to our church
family.
…
Join with me in believing for a move of the Holy Spirit at Metro. We need it so much!
Danny Jones”

]]> By: Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14805 Jim Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:39:25 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14805 <p>I'd really like to hear from people via email who are currently having the tables turned on them.</p> <p>SGM leadership is currently acting like this in an anomaly-a part of their past that rarely happens today.</p> <p>I'll be happy to inform them that they are misinformed.</p> <p>jim@sgmrefuge.com</p> I’d really like to hear from people via email who are currently having the tables turned on them.

SGM leadership is currently acting like this in an anomaly-a part of their past that rarely happens today.

I’ll be happy to inform them that they are misinformed.

jim@sgmrefuge.com

]]> By: Steve240 http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14804 Steve240 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:59:12 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14804 Flotsam and Jetsam said: “You’re bitter, and that invalidates your observation!”,  “Have you dealt with your own sin in bringing that to me?” and dozens of similar responses.  It is the sovereign grace book you won’t see on the book table – “A Hundred and One Ways to Avoid Receiving Correction – Pastors Only Edition”.  I suppose I am just being bitter and this invalidates my observations.   Nice phrase and way of putting that. It is so sad where one hears so many reports of how SGM Leaders like to turn the tables on someone bringing to a leader an "observation."  I wonder how intentional this is or are these leaders only good at seeing others problems and sin and not their own.  As you point out, even if a person bringing this up is bitter does that negate what they brought up about a leader if it is true? Of course who would expect these leaders to have any sin since they always parade themselves as being "imperfect."  ;-)   Too bad these "imperfect" leaders rarely want to admit any of their own imperfections. Flotsam and Jetsam said:
“You’re bitter, and that invalidates your observation!”,  “Have you dealt with your own sin in bringing that to me?” and dozens of similar responses.  It is the sovereign grace book you won’t see on the book table – “A Hundred and One Ways to Avoid Receiving Correction – Pastors Only Edition”.  I suppose I am just being bitter and this invalidates my observations.
 
Nice phrase and way of putting that.
It is so sad where one hears so many reports of how SGM Leaders like to turn the tables on someone bringing to a leader an “observation.”  I wonder how intentional this is or are these leaders only good at seeing others problems and sin and not their own.  As you point out, even if a person bringing this up is bitter does that negate what they brought up about a leader if it is true?
Of course who would expect these leaders to have any sin since they always parade themselves as being “imperfect.”  ;-)    Too bad these “imperfect” leaders rarely want to admit any of their own imperfections.

]]> By: Cardinal http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/12/05/out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire-or-happy-days-are-here-again/#comment-14803 Cardinal Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:04:04 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=323#comment-14803 "you are bitter and that invalidates your observation." that well used phrase works well in Northern Virginia  and Senior pastors greet you as if nothing ever happened. Dorothy, we feel your pain..believe me.     “you are bitter and that invalidates your observation.”
that well used phrase works well in Northern Virginia  and Senior pastors greet you as if nothing ever happened.
Dorothy, we feel your pain..believe me.
 
 

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