Chuck,
 
We willnot reveal our identity or where we go to church or which sgm church we were a part of. No, we choose not to contact you via your personal email. These debates are like a revolving door that never ends. Probably a more helpful investigation for your questions would be to go to the couples who left who were previously long time members.

In all sincerity, we do pray for the Gilbert church and love and respect the Senior Pastor.
For all the sgm churches, our prayer is that there will be a return to their first love—Jesus Christ……….learning of Him, knowing Him,hearing Him, following Him—above all others-because HE is the Resurrection and the Life.

Shalom to you, Chuck…we ‘ll not be responding to any of your questions (We see you do have communications ongoing on the Survivors website —perhaps that will be helpful to you also—I hope so). 

 -  Waters

I’m grateful that you offered to take the conversation offline. I’m personally weary of public debate.

I think that Waters’ questions were reasonable, and also informed, proving that there is some connection there.

I can’t speak for anyone here but myself, but as the guy who got this ball rolling, I can tell you that I have no desire to tear down a church or a denomination.

Assuming you are a member of a sgm church, you have either already benefited from the existence of this blog and survivors, or will benefit in the future.

A just balance and scales are the Lord’s; all the weights in the bag are his work. Prov 16:11

Scroll up to Waters’ postings on Sept 24th and 27th. Perhaps you can come to understand and then discern the answers for your questions. No need to wonder.

And wondering:

Did you, as a church, receive a written form of exactly WHAT the hired law firms’ conclusions were for “everything to be done in accordance with the law”? (Like, what “everything” are they talking about?)

And, is everyone now crystal clear in regards to Steves role in the (Gilbert)church?

As for the SGM cultural change—-quite difficult to be ‘in” it—but not “of” it….without being adversely spiritually effected. **** May God equip and strengthen you and sharpen your discernment in your surroundings.

Do you know how things are faring in Gilbert church???

Thank you so much for sharing that very beautiful and powerful allegory. It made me cry; and in the press of life today, it was exactly the encouragement I needed to hear. Thank you!

That brought to mind two passages of scripture. From Psalm 37:34 “Wait for the Lord and keep His way. He will exalt you to inherit the land; when the wicked are cut off you will see it.”

And from 2 Cor 1:8-10 “We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life………But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us, on Him we have set our Hope…..”

Thank you again for sharing that.

From A Cave Of Knowing: Field Report/
Lambs To Lions Beat The Dragon

Now hear this (it will make sense on a deep level to some/to others will just sound nonsensical):

For a while, we’ve been on the run . . . . Hiding in caves, finding refuge here and there–bravehearts, purehearts, brothers and sisters lending a helping hand, best as they can. The enemy, led by a hateful tyrant filled with rage and bent on destruction . . . . hunts those dedicated to liberty, freedom, truth, love . . . .

We’ve been wounded—made many errors. Often we have been outflanked. Sometimes, through sheer blind courage and angst we have gone to field to meet the opponent, though out-manned . . . and were swept in battle . . . again, taking to the hills to salve our hurts . . . .

The little host of which we speak is of royal lineage–wayward prodigals, mostly looking as through a glass darkly. They see forms, are moved and led by whisperings of spirit, barely heard, from time to time . . . on the move yet . . . learning as they go, survival techniques, ways to defend against the ubiquitous foe. Were it not for the guiding protection of mighty battle-hardened angels, all would have fallen; but it is part of the plan, that the skirmishing royals be kept safe through all, though many times all has seemed lost and impossible.

BUT HERE IS A WONDER! The more broken, them more bereft of self power–this running royal band becomes impregnable and increasingly toughened, flint-like in resolve to find ultimate victory! What is actually happening in the unseen records of such deeds . . . rarely matches the scene on terra, on the ground . . . . For to the mortal eye–and even to the eyes of wrath-filled wizards and adepts attacking under the dragon banner–it would appear the royal children are hopelessly beaten, lost, demoralized, crippled . . . .

Ah, but in spirit, which transcends the merely temporary shiftings of energy-driven matter . . . what is seen, what is recorded, is success after success! The foolish tyrant who ravages the mere land is blind, as are his minions, to the accruing glory of the warrior saints, as they strive on with faithful fortitude . . . constantly chalking up victories which are actually heralded in the immortal skies, as the heavenly watchers smile in divine satisfaction. The dragon’s ruse’s seem to work for a time, and the battle on the ground looks hopelessly relinquished to the evil grins of the gloating goats and wolves . . . but wiser Eyes and Ears that Hear Observe that ALL IS WELL, and the Plan goes as intended.

It was meant for the princes and princesses to experience being thrown out–that the Children be left to wander and suffer for a season in the wilderness. That they may know their utter devastation without their Lord. For all works to the greater glory of the one true King, in His wisdom and all-knowing determinations . . . . And he seeks a family, once collected into the great halls of permanence that will dine and fest and adventure and serve throughout a far-flung universe and endless creation, kings and queens, priests and prophets, alongside angelic cohorts–these having been tested through the trials and fires of mortal staging.

Meanwhile, yet, there is a time . . . where the blessed vagabonds must scurry. They will collect here and there. They will be guided by lights, by sounds, by still, inner voice . . . carried ofttimes on wing . . . . They will part clouds, bring rain, heal the sick, teach the willing . . . as they wander and drive through the darkened world, while storm clouds gather on all fronts, side to side . . . .

Wondrous deeds of holy chivalry, knightly errands . . . many brave stands will be made–ALL recorded and marveled at by the hosts on high who lovingly regard the stubborn royals, who stand fearlessly in the gap, giving up of lives, of fortunes–for truth, honor, principle . . . but most of all for sheer love and devotion to their great Master and Lord, He Who shall one day be known by all as the King of Kings . . . .

Driven through battering rains, plummeting fires, shaking grounds, plagues and pestilence . . . harried by the swarming harpies, incubi, succubi, ghouls, veritable zombies–hordes of the living dead who stalk them day and night–YET, they carry on, undaunted. Or, if hurt for a time, confused, and in despair, nevertheless, these royal nomads (for they do not make house on shifting sands) recover and continue the fight. They cannot be beaten.

All the world’s treasures, technologies, resources, cunning . . . is arrayed against them–these relative few–yet invincible they turn out to be. The harder they are pushed, the harder they become in their resolve to make it to the final gates, where absolute protection and comfort perfectly awaits . . . .

Hold firm, stalwarts, though you fall and weave and cry out in frustration and anger. The eternal hearer knows all thy deeds of the heart and not a whit is missed! Your true intent . . . .

And slowly but surely, that intent will manifest–a character made for endless ages is being wrought, hammered on the anvil of human life, as intended by the great Artist and Creator of divine souls. The destroyers, jealous, fearful, bilious . . . will finally crumble–mad, insane, decrepit, shot through will wickedness and spiritual disease . . . and at last thrown into the furnace.

Hold on! There is more to do, more to suffer, more to prove, more tests to hone the mettle dearhearts, bravehearts, purehearts . . . .

Lambs become lions . . . and beat the dragon.
The Divine Eternal Father watches and waits . . . for His children to arrive, brought in by their Warrior Shepard, turned Lion to vanquish all adversaries.

this, a humble word from one such outpost . . . a scout on the wall, surveying the fields, the battlements . . . .
brother, thomas