Comments on: A Scandalous Freedom http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/ a safe haven Tue, 22 May 2012 14:02:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Walter http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-19604 Walter Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:46:22 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-19604 I was a member in Steve Brown's church in Miami Fl 35 years ago. I am in Atlanta now and he comes here a few times a year to teach at Perimeter Church (my church home). I was Steve before Steve was cool!  :)  And he is still cool. I was a member in Steve Brown’s church in Miami Fl 35 years ago. I am in Atlanta now and he comes here a few times a year to teach at Perimeter Church (my church home). I was Steve before Steve was cool!  :)  And he is still cool.

]]> By: Stunned http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17530 Stunned Wed, 12 May 2010 13:59:47 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17530 Bruised, what gorgeous words, Who I am in quite enough in Christ.  Amen!!!!!!!!! FormerSGPastor, what a WONDERFUL way to fall asleep! Bruised, what gorgeous words, Who I am in quite enough in Christ.  Amen!!!!!!!!!

FormerSGPastor, what a WONDERFUL way to fall asleep!

]]> By: bruised http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17519 bruised Wed, 12 May 2010 13:01:12 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17519 Yes.... Canary... I do feel the love. got on line here at work this morning - starting reading with tear filled eyes........... It is peaceful to just "rest" in the Lord for this season! What a blessing.  No more trying to measure up and be a "BETTER GODLY WOMAN"...... Who I am is quite enough in Christ.....   Hugs gang! Yes…. Canary… I do feel the love.
got on line here at work this morning – starting reading with tear filled eyes………..
It is peaceful to just “rest” in the Lord for this season!
What a blessing.  No more trying to measure up and be a “BETTER GODLY WOMAN”……
Who I am is quite enough in Christ…..
 
Hugs gang!

]]> By: Canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17504 Canary Wed, 12 May 2010 01:17:25 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17504 FSGP,  rejoicing with you - freedom! Stunned, I can only agree with the others - your words to Bruised are right on. Bruised, are you feeling the love???:) FSGP,  rejoicing with you – freedom!

Stunned, I can only agree with the others – your words to Bruised are right on.

Bruised, are you feeling the love???:)

]]> By: FSGP http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17491 FSGP Tue, 11 May 2010 22:28:16 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17491 Irv - Good to hear from you as always! Amen to your comment on 5/11 @ 1251. I have spent the last week+ going to bed at night and pondering the great exchange that occurred on my behalf thanks to Jesus; hallelujah, what a Savior! Stunned on 5/11 at 1713 - right on, right on! Tell it! All - today at lunch I ran into two young pastors (who I know) who went to RTS. I asked them if they had classes with Steve Brown. Immediately they beamed, became animated, and responded with an enthusiastic "Yes!". They were very familiar with SF. One of them said it was "liberating". Free at last, ya'll! Former SG Pastor Irv – Good to hear from you as always! Amen to your comment on 5/11 @ 1251. I have spent the last week+ going to bed at night and pondering the great exchange that occurred on my behalf thanks to Jesus; hallelujah, what a Savior!

Stunned on 5/11 at 1713 – right on, right on! Tell it!

All – today at lunch I ran into two young pastors (who I know) who went to RTS. I asked them if they had classes with Steve Brown. Immediately they beamed, became animated, and responded with an enthusiastic “Yes!”. They were very familiar with SF. One of them said it was “liberating”.

Free at last, ya’ll!
Former SG Pastor

]]> By: Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17486 Jim Tue, 11 May 2010 21:39:00 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17486 <p>For the record, Irv is 99.9% correct.</p> <p>We have not been become what Adam was before the Fall.</p> <p>Everything else he's saying is correct, and isn't it wonderful?!</p> <p>(Still not joking.)</p> For the record, Irv is 99.9% correct.

We have not been become what Adam was before the Fall.

Everything else he’s saying is correct, and isn’t it wonderful?!

(Still not joking.)

]]> By: Stunned http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17485 Stunned Tue, 11 May 2010 21:36:04 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17485 Irv, Jim, check's in the mail. Irv, Jim, check’s in the mail.

]]> By: Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17484 Jim Tue, 11 May 2010 21:30:58 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17484 <p>Bruised, Stunned is 100% correct. (I'm not joking.)</p> Bruised, Stunned is 100% correct. (I’m not joking.)

]]> By: Irv http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17483 Irv Tue, 11 May 2010 21:28:13 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17483 Stunned - I thought you said it just fine! One problem you do not have is communicating your heart. --- 100% correct - as usual!! I love it!!   When I have had to referee at times, I make if very clear right up front "that I may not always get it right but I am never wrong" :) .    Stunned – I thought you said it just fine! One problem you do not have is communicating your heart. — 100% correct – as usual!! I love it!!
 
When I have had to referee at times, I make if very clear right up front “that I may not always get it right but I am never wrong” :) . 
 

]]> By: Irv http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17481 Irv Tue, 11 May 2010 21:21:48 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17481 Canary -- I love it!! LOL  Canary — I love it!! LOL 

]]> By: Irv http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17479 Irv Tue, 11 May 2010 21:18:17 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17479 Bruised -    The ladies on Refuge are looking well after you and many are praying for you which assures that you will come to the place of rest (peace). As I was praying for you I felt to I encourage you to move from a mindset of  an 'obedience walk' to a "faith walk".    I would not assume that you do but many Christians consider obedience as 'not sinning'. Jesus obeyed His Father's wishes but it had nothing to do with sin but in the honor, worship and faith in His Father. He did what He saw His Father doing. Obedience is more about being who you are in Christ and being His expression.     As a new creation you have a new nature (divine), new mind (Christ's) and a new spirit (perfect). Col 2:6 says as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord so walk in Him. You received Christ Jesus the Lord by faith so your walk is a faith walk.    Many years ago I was trying to help my wife (and myself) understand grace vs works because she is naturally a servant so her identity was in what she did and felt that serving was giving her heart. We finally starting breaking through when she came to the revelation that Jesus wanted her heart not her service.    The next break through came when we recognized and believed the glory of God was in us and was our new DNA (Christ in us). That we were the expression of His glory to people not our works. When Moses demanded (or asked with great weight) to see God's glory, it was interesting what God revealed to him.    Moses saw God deliver the Jews, leave for the promised land with the riches of Egypt on their backs, the cloud by day, the fire by night, the Red Sea open, the Egyptian army drown, their every need provided, their clothes not wearing out, the Lord speak to Moses at the burning bush, etc. etc. Most Christians would have said he had already seen the glory of God.    When the Lord revealed His glory he described  it this way (Ex 34:6) - He is compassionate, gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, loving the multitudes and forgiving of all sin, iniquity and rebellion. What Moses saw was Jesus Himself.    Here is where it gets good. Those attributes of Jesus is the glory of God all of which now reside in us. We are now totally free to exhibit His glory to those in our lives and to the world. We know longer need to ask for these things they are in us and we walk (release) by faith those attributes as expressions of His glory.    Bruised - you are precious to the Lord and He has chosen you as an object of his Love and Glory. This is possible because He made you righteous not in the hope that someday you can attain righteousness. ---- All by faith!!!    Don't mean to be long winded is just happens sometimes. You are in good hands and I am confident the Lord will complete the work in you that He began in you in Christ Jesus.    Irv Bruised - 
 
The ladies on Refuge are looking well after you and many are praying for you which assures that you will come to the place of rest (peace). As I was praying for you I felt to I encourage you to move from a mindset of  an ‘obedience walk’ to a “faith walk”. 
 
I would not assume that you do but many Christians consider obedience as ‘not sinning’. Jesus obeyed His Father’s wishes but it had nothing to do with sin but in the honor, worship and faith in His Father. He did what He saw His Father doing. Obedience is more about being who you are in Christ and being His expression.  
 
As a new creation you have a new nature (divine), new mind (Christ’s) and a new spirit (perfect). Col 2:6 says as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord so walk in Him. You received Christ Jesus the Lord by faith so your walk is a faith walk. 
 
Many years ago I was trying to help my wife (and myself) understand grace vs works because she is naturally a servant so her identity was in what she did and felt that serving was giving her heart. We finally starting breaking through when she came to the revelation that Jesus wanted her heart not her service. 
 
The next break through came when we recognized and believed the glory of God was in us and was our new DNA (Christ in us). That we were the expression of His glory to people not our works. When Moses demanded (or asked with great weight) to see God’s glory, it was interesting what God revealed to him. 
 
Moses saw God deliver the Jews, leave for the promised land with the riches of Egypt on their backs, the cloud by day, the fire by night, the Red Sea open, the Egyptian army drown, their every need provided, their clothes not wearing out, the Lord speak to Moses at the burning bush, etc. etc. Most Christians would have said he had already seen the glory of God. 
 
When the Lord revealed His glory he described  it this way (Ex 34:6) – He is compassionate, gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, loving the multitudes and forgiving of all sin, iniquity and rebellion. What Moses saw was Jesus Himself. 
 
Here is where it gets good. Those attributes of Jesus is the glory of God all of which now reside in us. We are now totally free to exhibit His glory to those in our lives and to the world. We know longer need to ask for these things they are in us and we walk (release) by faith those attributes as expressions of His glory. 
 
Bruised – you are precious to the Lord and He has chosen you as an object of his Love and Glory. This is possible because He made you righteous not in the hope that someday you can attain righteousness. —- All by faith!!! 
 
Don’t mean to be long winded is just happens sometimes. You are in good hands and I am confident the Lord will complete the work in you that He began in you in Christ Jesus. 
 
Irv

]]> By: Stunned http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17478 Stunned Tue, 11 May 2010 21:13:32 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17478 Bruised, I am about to make a statement I know you won't believe.  I know I won't be able to give you any proof of the rightness of this statement.  (At least not to your satisfaction.  And that's not because you're hard to please.  I think you are the opposite of that, honestly.)  I am sure I won't even say it well and I am already wishing Canary or someone else will come in and "clean up" after me to make better sense of what I'm trying to say.  All that to say, bruised said, "Why then:  Am I so fearful of being lukewarm?  This taunts at me daily…….."  Bruised, I think that if you were lukewarm and you thought of this scripture, then being worried about it would be the farthest thing from your mind.  Actually, if you were lukewarm, you probably wouldn't even be thinking about this verse ever.  But if it did cross your path, you wouldn't care about being lukewarm or not.  I wonder if the conversation in your head would go something like this: "Be ye not lukewarm."   Hmmm....I wonder what I'm going to eat for lunch.  I would take the fact that you are concerned about whether you are lukewarm or not as proof positive that you are NOT lukewarm.  Besides, just from the little interaction we've had on here with you, I can say beyond a shadow of any doubt (in my mind), you my friend are NOT lukewarm.  Anyone else here want to chime in and assure her I am 100% correct.  (As usual.  ;-) ) Bruised, I am about to make a statement I know you won’t believe.  I know I won’t be able to give you any proof of the rightness of this statement.  (At least not to your satisfaction.  And that’s not because you’re hard to please.  I think you are the opposite of that, honestly.)  I am sure I won’t even say it well and I am already wishing Canary or someone else will come in and “clean up” after me to make better sense of what I’m trying to say. 

All that to say, bruised said, “Why then:  Am I so fearful of being lukewarm?  This taunts at me daily……..”  Bruised, I think that if you were lukewarm and you thought of this scripture, then being worried about it would be the farthest thing from your mind.  Actually, if you were lukewarm, you probably wouldn’t even be thinking about this verse ever.  But if it did cross your path, you wouldn’t care about being lukewarm or not.  I wonder if the conversation in your head would go something like this:

“Be ye not lukewarm.”   Hmmm….I wonder what I’m going to eat for lunch. 

I would take the fact that you are concerned about whether you are lukewarm or not as proof positive that you are NOT lukewarm.  Besides, just from the little interaction we’ve had on here with you, I can say beyond a shadow of any doubt (in my mind), you my friend are NOT lukewarm. 

Anyone else here want to chime in and assure her I am 100% correct.  (As usual.  ;-) )

]]> By: Canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17457 Canary Tue, 11 May 2010 17:45:31 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17457 Well said, Irv.  So, the truth is that, under grace, when we look into the mirror, we see Jesus!  Yee-ha! Well said, Irv.  So, the truth is that, under grace, when we look into the mirror, we see Jesus!  Yee-ha!

]]> By: bruised http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17448 bruised Tue, 11 May 2010 17:03:50 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17448 thank you Irv. Why then:  Am I so fearful of being lukewarm?  This taunts at me daily........ I want to rest in the fact that I'm covered by Grace and then drift back in to the law!!!!!!   still trying to find that resting place.  I have lived out the OBEDIENCE WALK for over 4 years now... its gonna just take time! thank you Irv.
Why then:  Am I so fearful of being lukewarm?  This taunts at me daily……..
I want to rest in the fact that I’m covered by Grace and then drift back in to the law!!!!!!
 
still trying to find that resting place.  I have lived out the OBEDIENCE WALK for over 4 years now… its gonna just take time!

]]> By: Irv http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17446 Irv Tue, 11 May 2010 16:51:54 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17446 Bruised -  As my good Jewish friends say "from your lips to God heart". I will pray with you to that end.  If you will indulge me and I know I am preaching to the choir I would like to make a comment to your statement:  "For a year now I have beat myself up thinking I’m just not a good submissive christian" I have asked Christians through the years what is it to be a good Christian according to the scriptures. They come up with incredibly long lists of what they believe the scriptures teach to be a good Christian. Scriptures do not make any reference to being a "good Christian" but they do speak to Christians as being righteous.  When we said yes to Jesus there was an exchange made; my unrighteousness for His righteousness. The key to our life in Christ is righteousness. The only way to righteousness before God is 100% obedience to the law (every jot and tittle) to which Jesus fulfilled 100% which is impossible for man.  Trust in Christ for our salvation is an exchange; our unrighteousness is credited to Christ's account and His righteousness is credited to us (our account). Credited is a accounting term which means everything was made right (everything balanced). The application is this: we are now justified (we stand before God as though we never sinned just as Jesus never sinned) and now we are glorified (clothed in the glory of God as Adam was clothed in His glory in the garden prior to the fall).  What Adam was before the fall has been restored to all those who in Christ. By faith our condition which was unacceptable to God has been made acceptable through Christ. As we accepted Him by faith, we continue in Him by faith and the life we now live is Him living in us. And through us the glory of God (Jesus) is expressed to the world.  So Bruised you never have to strive to be a 'good Christian' - you are a righteous Christian -- free from the law of sin and death. We no longer live at the cross (we were buried with Him - raised with Him - we are seated in the heavenlies), but we live with Him beyond the cross to enjoy the fullness of Christ and life in His kingdom.  So much for a quick comment!!  Bruised - 

As my good Jewish friends say “from your lips to God heart”. I will pray with you to that end. 

If you will indulge me and I know I am preaching to the choir I would like to make a comment to your statement: 

“For a year now I have beat myself up thinking I’m just not a good submissive christian”

I have asked Christians through the years what is it to be a good Christian according to the scriptures. They come up with incredibly long lists of what they believe the scriptures teach to be a good Christian. Scriptures do not make any reference to being a “good Christian” but they do speak to Christians as being righteous. 

When we said yes to Jesus there was an exchange made; my unrighteousness for His righteousness. The key to our life in Christ is righteousness. The only way to righteousness before God is 100% obedience to the law (every jot and tittle) to which Jesus fulfilled 100% which is impossible for man. 

Trust in Christ for our salvation is an exchange; our unrighteousness is credited to Christ’s account and His righteousness is credited to us (our account). Credited is a accounting term which means everything was made right (everything balanced).

The application is this: we are now justified (we stand before God as though we never sinned just as Jesus never sinned) and now we are glorified (clothed in the glory of God as Adam was clothed in His glory in the garden prior to the fall). 

What Adam was before the fall has been restored to all those who in Christ. By faith our condition which was unacceptable to God has been made acceptable through Christ. As we accepted Him by faith, we continue in Him by faith and the life we now live is Him living in us. And through us the glory of God (Jesus) is expressed to the world. 

So Bruised you never have to strive to be a ‘good Christian’ – you are a righteous Christian — free from the law of sin and death. We no longer live at the cross (we were buried with Him – raised with Him – we are seated in the heavenlies), but we live with Him beyond the cross to enjoy the fullness of Christ and life in His kingdom. 

So much for a quick comment!! 

]]> By: bruised http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17445 bruised Tue, 11 May 2010 16:37:23 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17445 Stunned, Actually.. I was giving Irv the wow.... was his comment!  lol But truly is an awesome way to view it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   gets my applause! Stunned,
Actually.. I was giving Irv the wow…. was his comment!  lol
But truly is an awesome way to view it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
gets my applause!

]]> By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17444 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM Tue, 11 May 2010 16:34:18 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17444 For the record, from the NASB: <strong>Grace:</strong>  122 times <strong>Freedom:</strong> 8 times <strong>Licentiousness:</strong> 1 <strong>And just for the record, Pastor:</strong> 1   For the record, from the NASB:

Grace:  122 times
Freedom: 8 times
Licentiousness: 1
And just for the record, Pastor: 1
 

]]> By: Stunned http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17443 Stunned Tue, 11 May 2010 16:22:11 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17443 Bruised said, "The law is like a mirror, in it I can only see my sinful condition"  Wow and awesome way to look at it!  Thank you for sharing that. Bruised said, “The law is like a mirror, in it I can only see my sinful condition”  Wow and awesome way to look at it!  Thank you for sharing that.

]]> By: bruised http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17434 bruised Tue, 11 May 2010 13:56:26 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17434 Irv, WOW..... For me – I will always error on the side of grace and freedom!! The law is like a mirror, in it I can only see my sinful condition, when I look at grace, I see my righteousness and identity in Christ. When I see freedom I see no restraints to to be everything I can be in Him and the freedom to accomplish all that Jesus has for me, and bondage — well I am just not going there except to apply truth when needed which brings more freedom!!! We must stand firm (no fear) in our freedom that we never again subject ourselves to a yoke of slavery. <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&q=Gal+5%3A1" rel="nofollow">Gal 5:1</a> I PRAY TO BE HERE 100% ONE DAY SOON! Irv,
WOW…..
For me – I will always error on the side of grace and freedom!! The law is like a mirror, in it I can only see my sinful condition, when I look at grace, I see my righteousness and identity in Christ. When I see freedom I see no restraints to to be everything I can be in Him and the freedom to accomplish all that Jesus has for me, and bondage — well I am just not going there except to apply truth when needed which brings more freedom!!! We must stand firm (no fear) in our freedom that we never again subject ourselves to a yoke of slavery. Gal 5:1
I PRAY TO BE HERE 100% ONE DAY SOON!

]]> By: Stunned http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/09/15/a-scandalous-freedom/#comment-17430 Stunned Tue, 11 May 2010 12:19:57 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=299#comment-17430 Irv, Christians run screaming in fear when they hear about freedom.  It's so sad.  How many times does the bible use the word "grace"?  How about the word "freedom"?  How many times does the bible use the word "liscentiousness"?  Yet it seems whenever a Christian hears the word freedom, they feel the need to "balance" it with a warning on liscentiousness.  Does the bible need to do that?  I don't think so.  I guess someone ought to have told God that He should have "balanced" it out in the bible, as well. Irv, Christians run screaming in fear when they hear about freedom.  It’s so sad.  How many times does the bible use the word “grace”?  How about the word “freedom”?  How many times does the bible use the word “liscentiousness”? 

Yet it seems whenever a Christian hears the word freedom, they feel the need to “balance” it with a warning on liscentiousness.  Does the bible need to do that?  I don’t think so.  I guess someone ought to have told God that He should have “balanced” it out in the bible, as well.

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