Please don’t drag this topic to another thread-I’ve really heard enough.

Please see the original post, as it’s been revised.

I know this will ultimately be a blessing to you.  (key word:  ultimately!)

I see the involvement of a “Reformed Big Dog” as a direct answer to our collective prayers, and I understand why this individual would choose to remain anonymous at this time.  RT, I too have a theory of who it is…

May God clearly guide each of you in your decision of whether to share your personal testimony about your SGM experiences, and may your words be in the center of His will.  For those of you who have been deeply wounded, please realize that this opportunity may never come your way again . . .

Blessings and Godspeed!

Jim and Carole,

I do think it is interesting that, just as Jim seems unable to keep the blog going, this happens.  It is very “hand of God-ish”.  I had lost all hope of the big dogs taking any interest in their own wounded.  It is these people whom my heart is for, and I know the two of you would not put them in harm’s way.  So, I am, with hesitation, on board.

I have a question.  This comes not from a strong-faithed woman, but from a timid Canary who trusts in God for her courage:  why would you believe that sending a letter describing our experiences won’t end up like the last meeting my husband and I attended, where it became about our sin?  Has something changed that makes you hopeful that CJ won’t pull this one on us, that he will really listen?  I think many of us just couldn’t go through all that again.  Are the odds in our favor that we won’t get the “usual”, like a form letter telling us all about the doctrine of sin?

I know you aren’t prophets.  I’m just asking plainly what you think the odds are, from your talk with the anonymous guy, to your gut feelings on the matter.  I am going to pray with my husband about our participation.  I know others must be praying, as well.  This could be a big thing. 

I’m sorry that, when your lives seemed so full, the Lord has given you more work to do.  Thank you both.

To all who are considering sending their letters to CJ:  this could be our way of putting wings to our prayers, so to speak.  One last chance, one more time to try and get CJ to listen…this must be seriously prayed over.  I got my name, “Canary”, from my family, because I tend to be discerning.  I don’t smell any bad air, here.  Go prayerfully, go cautiously, but this just might be a thing to be part of.   There is no one to go to, above CJ.  Let us see what his response is to being flooded with the same stories we have posted, here.  Like someone said above, it could be a win/win scenario.  There might be other believers who will be saved from going through what we went through, simply because God moves on CJ’s heart.  Perhaps this Refuge can be a place of Reform, after all.  We can only try. 

If a timid, little, yellow canary can step out in this, I know that more of you can, as well.  I guess it doesn’t just take courage.  It will take faith.

I am wondering, what is the possible outcome of these letters?  Maybe a form letter or even a personal letter to each one back from CJ saying he is sorry.  Will he post a letter on this blog?  Will this be enough?  As we write our letters, let’s ask the question, what are we hoping to accomplish from this endeavor?  What is the return we are hoping for???    

Long time, no see, my friend!   

Sidney…  I understand your concerns and hesitation, I truly do!  Jim and I have walked this path ourselves and along with many of you for a very long time…  we know SGM’s unbiblical methods, believe me!    

We are not forcing anyone to do this…  we are simply providing an opportunity.  That’s all.  If you don’t want to participate, that’s cool!…  If you do, that’s cool, too.  No pressure from us.  Jim has passed along the message, and he is willing to be the “go between”. 

Jim is also doing everything in his power to make sure that there will be no retribution aimed at any of us, legal or otherwise.  Again, having at least one RBD looking over CJ’s shoulder is a good thing, in my opinion.

The way this will work is that Jim will collect all of the accounts and convert them to locked PDF’s…  which means they cannot be edited.  This will take a while to gather the accounts, convert them and get them ready to send to CJ. 

During this time, rest assured that Jim will be looking into everything…  every loophole, possible litigation, etc.  If anything comes up that looks and/or smells fishy, Jim will not continue this endeavor.  Jim is not stupid (far from it!) and there are people he knows and trusts that can help him walk through the legal ramifications of all of this.

Believe me when I say that those who have been hurt and treated in an unbiblical manner by SGM is of the utmost importance to us.  We are not going to do anything that would cause more harm to all of you that we have grown to love so much. 

Again, let me reiterate this point…  Jim is just the messenger…  and he has taken on the responsibility of collecting accounts from those that want to participate.  There is absolutely no pressure being placed on anyone to do anything they are not comfortable doing.  But for those that do, the opportunity has been placed before us.  It’s up to us, individually, to decide what we want to do with it. 

Writing a private letter to one person that is filled with truth, that says Pastor X, in 2001, told me that I could not teach because I was not dressed appropriately” or whatever, is neither slander nor defamation.

To demand the name of the RBD is to doubt Jim’s word that this man is legitimate. 

Jim has proven himself to be a man of unbelievable character and judgement–he is unfailingly truthful and discrete.  Carole has spent countless hours in ministry to many of us ladies.  He is weary and busy and sick of the whole thing, yet he perseveres, not only here on the blog, but through email and phone conversations.

Can you perceive the timing here?  Jim admits he is weary and bored with SGM and the blog, burdened with work, and all of a sudden this comes about?  As his time as an online blogmaster winds to a close, it is obvious that this is the time to do this.

If you were in need to financial support, and an anonymous donor offered you $10 million through a known and trusted friend, you wouldn’t take the offer of help without knowing who the original donor was?

The RBD also needs protection–he is a mediator–not directly involved in this at all.  He is responsible to his own elders and to his church.

This is what we all have been asking for.

My family has been victimized in much the same way as most of you at another church.  My kids were shunned publicly one time.  I was enraged by that, and in general I tend to let that stuff go.  I understand fear and pain.  We wanted someone to listen to us. 

We tried to speak to the elders at that church, but they were too busy calling around trying to rake up mud on us.  They were too busy disinvesting us of positions of bible study leaders, etc.  They were too busy codependantly protecting themselves and their pastor to listen to truth.  They didn’t care about the Book in our case, they were worried about CYA.

Our former pastor chased our current pastor around at presbytery one day, (actually chased him right into the bathroom) to tell  him that we were trouble, and that was where we were finally heard.

Our new pastor and, seperately, an elder, asked us to tell him (them) the unvarnished truth and we did, dispassionately.  Their flaws.  Our flaws.  He listened.  He believed us. 

Having someone listen to us, believe us, was like losing a thousand pound malignant tumor.  We were heard.

The power that our previous pastor held over us, emotionally, evaporated.  You can’t believe the freedom that came when we told the story ONE MORE TIME and THAT TIME WAS THE TIME!

I beg you, if you have a story to tell, THIS COULD BE YOUR TIME, THE TIME, THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

If this turns out to not be THE TIME, then it is just one more time you tell the story.  It doesn’t give CJ any more power–he is the emperor with no clothes and YOU KNOW IT.

Jesus adores you.  He longs to be gracious to you.  He has given you everything that is His.  Your position in Him is secure:  your identity is as a beloved child of the universe breathing almighty God, not as a victim of CJ and this SGM system.

You won’t be alone in this.  Jim will be there, a host of your brethren will be there.  It won’t just be your voice anymore–it will be the voices of many of us, many from this large community that has bonded together in common interest, and now finally in love for one another.

The difference here is this:  if you tell your story one more time, and then experience any weird stuff, any persecution, any shunning, that is simply the next part of your story to tell. 

The RBD, and others who are watching, are watching to SEE CJ’S REACTION TO YOUR STORY! 

If he doesn’t respond with true repentance, with true change, THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE WAITED FOR.

If CJ responds with true repentance, if he calls for top-down change, if he changes the church’s polity, established lay eldership, demands accountability, opens his church and his books for examination, abolishes the PC and encouarges each congregation to call their own pastors, if he chooses a great man with vision to set up an international missions arm of the church, if he calls each congregation to begin lavish giving to the poor and needy, if he encourages every pastor to begin connecting with the rest of the confessing church in their city for prayer and service and mutual support, THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE WAITED FOR.

Don’t let this chance pass you by.  For my dh and me, to have had the opportunity to bond together with all the believers that were hurt, shunned and denigrated in our former church, enabled by an objective third party, to present our stories would have been wonderful.

Outstanding comments and exhortations on your 8:53 post.
~jw

A third party is involved, and this is good news.

This may seem too crude an example, but here it goes:

I’m hearing lots of “what about the stack already on their desk?” stories in regard to Jim’s request for testimonies/stories.

Our testimonies were arrows.

What Jim is requesting will make a missile.

I’m not talking about destroying people; I’m talking about what gets an organization to sit up and pay attention to what you have to say.

I could continue with the analogies, but the only thing I have to add is this: the blogs have served their purpose to facilitate this.  Let’s all take a bow, congratulate ourselves, and then get to writing.  I know there is a temptation to draw a line and make someone meet your list of demands in this whole process (I’ve struggled in that whole area).

If you feel CJ or anyone else is doing too little too late, has an agenda, didn’t include this in his request or that in his actions, couldn’t we as one group of Christians bite the bullet and engage in returning good for evil?

~jw

No, my concerns lie solely on CJ and his leaders…  I’m not sure how he is going to respond, as I’ve seen his track record in the past.  :-/  But, as Jim said, it seems like a win/win…  either CJ responds in a biblical manner or he doesn’t…  that remains to be seen.  But, if CJ or any of his leaders choose to remain silent or turn the tables back on us in any way, as they have done to so many of us in our past interactions with them, that would not be a good move on their part…  there is at least one RBD who is watching them.  I see that as a good thing. 

But I can assure you that Jim is doing everything he can to insure that this is not a trap for any of us.  After all, we have seen the hurt, we have walked that road, too, along with many of you.  The last thing in the world Jim or I want to see happen is more hurt, more pain, more suffering heaped on anyone at the hands of SGM.

One more thing…  this should not be confused with reform within SGM…  this is strictly an opportunity to share our accounts, to give voice to what happened to us at the hands of our SGM leaders and look for repentance and forgiveness…  Reform still needs to happen, but that’s another subject entirely.  And reform needs to happen so that accounts like ours do not happen to anyone else… 

I understand your skepticism, I truly do.  But I also believe in a very big God, Who may be moving and working here…    We’ll just have to wait and see how this whole thing progresses.

No one is under any compulsion to participate. To be very honest, I’ve heard more than enough reasons why some think this is a bad idea.

I’m not taking a vote, I’m offering to help. If you don’t like the idea, then you should not participate.

I’m moving forward with this, and my account will be included.

I lnow the details probably haven’t been worked out, but could you possibly fill in some gaps? What is the process…does everyone send you their story, then you pass them along to RBD and CJ?  How will CJ respond?  Will he be responding to you and RBD – will there be any public acknowledgement?  Also, acme asked above about the format…are you looking for detail or an executive summary?

I am very skeptical and imagine the result will be tracking down the victims sin as revealed in their stories.  I hope that is not the case.  Either way, I plan on sending you my story (nothing dramatic) in the hopes of reform in SGM.

There is much though, in addition to victims…what about SGM’s polity,   SGM’s deceit in the church’s use of ”missions” funds for normal operating expenses,  lack of financial accountability, etc? Will CJ be addressing those as well?

Brother, thank you so much for this blog  and for working towards a resolution.  I can’t imagine the effort this takes and the time/emotional toll it takes.  You are making a difference in peoples lives and it is appreciated, though mostly unsaid.

How does this work, exactly?   We send stories to you and you deliver en masse?

Don’t forget a certain AZ “Apostle” said (before witnesses) that Matthew 18 can’t just be applied when it’s convenient to us. I would humbly ask, he was speaking for CJ, right?

You need to read, re-read and read again Jim’s 12:14am post.  He has some excellent points.

~j