Please continue the conversation here.

“oh for goodness’ sake, NO we don’t have a copy!  lol.
But from my memory it said that Larry was in a 6-month reform program after leaving MD and that at the end of 6 months he thought he was finished with the current course of correction and the other leaders (CJ) disagreed.  So they had to part company, or something like that.”

So the handout didn’t say much more than this about Tomczak?  I have read where Tomczak wrote in his book Reckless Abandon:

“Tomczak declared that this time “…seemed like an unbelievable nightmare” during which he, his wife Doris, and their son Justin “were threatened in various ways if we did not cooperate with the ministry that we were leaving… A letter was circulated in an attempt to discredit me and to distort the events surrounding my departure. Our own family members were divided.”

My understanding is that Tomczak first left CLC and moved for a short time period to what at the time was the Fairfax PDI Church.  He then moved to Atlanta to help pick up the pieces after the founding pastor of the Atlanta PDI  Church left PDI. 

Tomczak moved from CLC to Fairfax in the approximate 92/93 time frame. 

It is interesting that Tomczak first went down there to heal a church split and then lead one a few years later (approx 97). 

Does anyone know the date Tomczak move from Fairfax to Atlanta?

Thought that might be interesting info to add to the discussion.  Yet another example, allbeit an old one, of PDI/SGM mismanagement. 

Maybe someone who is more a “student” of theology can explain to me, in short, the focus and strong emphasis on indwelt sin by SGM. It seems that regardless of what you say or do, behind closed doors, these pastors keep reminding you of your sinner status.

I have yet to see redundant scripture in the New Testament that asks us to dwell on our indwelt sin as our greatest duty. On the contrary, our greatest commandment is to love the Lord thy God and to love your neighbor. The message of love in repeated and emphasised and commanded by first and foremost Jesus himself, and then Paul, and the other writers of the New Testament. This focus on sin seems to have greater weight with the SGM pastors than in any other church I have ever seen. Shouldn’t we be rejoicing in the Lord instead of dwelling on how ”bad” we still are?

Is there some doctrine out there that SGM has latched on to that puts the greater weight on one’s sin rather than love? If so, how is a person supposed to grow in the Lord by applying this doctrine? 

I suppose that maybe in some very odd way these pastors may earnestly believe that they are showing love by asking us to dwell on our indwelt sin.

This was one of my many “whys” when it came to SGM….. I have stopped asking why on the rest because there was no rational answer. I am still curious about this one though. Anyone have any idea? Doctrinal foundation? Biblical reference?

“As it keeps coming up on the blog, may I gently observe that the phrase is rendered “toe the line”, not “tow the line” ?”

Thanks for the correction. 

Googled the two phrases and found this:

http://grammartips.homestead.com/toetheline.html

” So one who “toes the line” is one who does not allow his foot to stray over the line.   In other words, one who does not stray beyond a rigidly defined boundary.”

Keep your toe somewhere vs tow an item like a car etc.

“Read up on Set Free’s Story, and Noels Story on the survivors site. The perp in both accounts is the same person.”

I read both of these stories (Set Free’s story is at http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=843; Noel’s Story is at http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=276), and it doesn’t seem to me that the perp is the same person. Set Free says the molestor was the sr. pastor’s son, whereas Noel says the molestor in her story was the son of a friend of her’s; the friend was separated from her husband and was not identified as a pastor’s wife.

Am I missing something? What in the two stories leads you to say the molestor was the same person?

oh for goodness’ sake, NO we don’t have a copy!  lol.
But from my memory it said that Larry was in a 6-month reform program after leaving MD and that at the end of 6 months he thought he was finished with the current course of correction and the other leaders (CJ) disagreed.  So they had to part company, or something like that.

We were in Ffx at the time; I assumed every member everywhere got one. (??)

The interesting and clueless part was that I thought I heard that it was from the experience with Larry that when Benny needed correction and had to step down they said that they wouldn’t put a 6-mos. timeframe on the correction process ever again.  But if Benny or his kids were directly involved in any sexual abuse that’s a whole new shocker to me.

Anyone remember something similar or different?

“I was clueless, even at the official letter we received from CJ 6 mos. later.  Remember that letter?”

Do you recall what the letter said or still have a copy?  I am curious as to what is said.

“What I want to say is that it is VERY POSSIBLE to be at a SGM church and NEVER run in to many of the issues that are talked about here on this site.   I would venture to say that 60-75% of the people just follow along and never have an issue. ”

I would guess that you are right on this. 

As people have indicated before, it is when you start to question things and don’t “tow” the company line that SGM Members see the darker side. 

It’s along the lines of seeing the clothes on the emperor or at least not saying he doesn’t have clothes on keeps you “safe.”  In other words, drink the “kool aid” and you are safe.  Question or ask even using scripture in your questioning and you aren’t safe. 

From all that I have read here and and SGM Survivors many of the SGM leaders are uncomfortable and even are threatened by those who question.  Start to ask questions and you become a target for their abuse.  This can include their “asking” you to leave w/o any type of Mathew 18 procedure.  So much for the trying to work things out that “Peacemakers” pushes. 

I am sure that this doesn’t explain why all abuse occurs but certainly explains a lot of it. 

SGM since their existence has taught a extreme definition of what they consider “gossip” and “slander” and has served them well to keep a lot of their members in the dark about what abuse is going on to the “select” few that are abused. 

I am sure that some of the abuse is leadership resorting to trying “protect” their business organization denomination association of churches.  Since it would be hard for most of these men to make the same kind of living they make as SGM pastors/leaders either consciously or subconciously they get “desperate.” 

Fred, formersgmer, go to ‘Set Free’s Story’ on sgmsurvivors.com and do the math. A guy named Larry T was the sr. pastor assigned to the church plant in Atlanta.  We were at the sendoff at FCC (VA), sitting with a friend who worked for him in G’burg; several families from Ffx went with Larry to GA.  Makes me sick.  I was clueless, even at the official letter we received from CJ 6 mos. later.  Remember that letter?

I do not think that the details need to be shared here.  This sounds like a serious legal matter.  If it is true than it is not different than what the Roman Catholic church did with its own sexual abuse scandals and I would really encourge PFR to take this to the right people.

People need to know what is still being withheld and covered up within SGM.  Thanks.

Payola?….I don’t have to say that is a serious accusation.  If you have evidence of financial impropriety, have you considered going to the authorities?  I am not asking you to share any details here I am just wondering if this is something which needs to be taken to another level.

So, why didn’t Dick get a half-hour of Sunday-morning prime time to tell his testimony, when he left CLC?

Specifically, in Encore Productions, Inc. v. PromiseKeepers, the Court noted that

A strong federal policy favoring arbitration for dispute resolution exists, and this policy “requires a liberal reading of arbitration agreements.” Moses H. Cone Memorial Hospital v. Mercury Construction Corp., 460 U.S. 1, 23 n. 27, 103 S.Ct. 927, 74 L.Ed.2d 765 (1983). This means that any doubts concerning the scope of arbitrable issues should be resolved in favor of arbitration. See id. at 24-25, 103 S.Ct. 927; Coors Brewing Co. v. Molson Breweries, 51 F. 3d 1511, 1514 (10th Cir. 1995) (“all doubts are to be resolved in favor of arbitrability”) (citations omitted).

Encore Productions, Inc. v. PromiseKeepers, 53 F.Supp.2d 1101, 1109-1110 (D. Colo 1999).

Read up on Set Free’s Story, and Noels Story on the survivors site.

The perp in both accounts is the same person.

There is a money trail behind the perps actions that led to Dick W’s(PDI’s CFO) reasons for  departure.

Noel and Set Free are not the only v’s with this perp.

Not everyone could be kept quiet through manipulation.

So where is payola in the NT CJ?