Comments on: Chesapeake Revisted

By: Defended

Defended — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:51:47 +0000

Sorry…that is SECOND Peter 2 ( 2 Peter 2 )

By: Defended

Defended — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:50:57 +0000

Peter 2 False Teachers and Their Destruction 1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings-; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. 12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish. 13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. 17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

By: Canary

Canary — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:07:28 +0000

Hebrews 8:5-7 (New International Version)

5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”[a] 6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

By: Canary

Canary — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:03:23 +0000

Very true, Steve 240. Those of us who fell into this sort of leader worship (or fear of leadership) would not have stumbled if the love of Jesus had been our guide. You mention it being like a drug. I remember feeling as though I’d come out of a fog after leaving PDI. I began to think more clearly. I had to get away from the controlling church to actually see how much of a trap it was for those of us who allowed men to be our mediators between ourselves and God. Now, Jesus stands in that place for me…by His mercy.

By: Steve240

Steve240 — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 02:08:18 +0000

Canary said:

“I, too, have regrets about how I treated some people as a PDIer/SGMer. It is so good that we look at our own weaknesses in following leaders who were doing wrong. Some of our mistakes were from ignorance and some from fear. Then there were the mistakes made because we decided to follow men instead of God. ”

I am sure there are a lot of reasons why genuine Christians do this. One is that one many times emulates the characteristics of those they admire to. This emulation is really no surprise in SGM with the almost deification and admiration of leaders that goes on within SGM.

One person who was involved in a similar movement described it like a “drug” that blinded people. That is people were so driven to move up the “food chain” or leadership hierarchy that they did things including being abusive as a way to move up etc. The desire to fit in as well as the fact that others were doing this blinded them to how wrong it was what they were doing.

By: Canary

Canary — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 18:59:23 +0000

Ellie, I’ve been meaning to call you. Expect it!

By: Ellie

Ellie — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 18:57:49 +0000

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ canary!! }}}}}}}}}}}}}}

:*

By: Canary

Canary — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:09:19 +0000

Thanks Waters and Fred. Just needed a break from the battle.

By: Fred

Fred — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 15:15:17 +0000

Canary, SO GOOD TO “SEE’ YOU!!!! You have been sorely missed!! As usual your comments bring enlightment and wisdom. Please don’t fly away again!!!

By: Canary

Canary — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 04:12:56 +0000

You ask a good question, Water. Wish I had an answer. I don’t understand how people who say they know and love the Lord can be so self absorbed with their authority over others. I don’t get it…

By: Waters

Waters — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 01:17:26 +0000

***Canary! *** So great to “see” you again……and as always, to hear you bring compassion along with wisdom……

Appreciate your points in regards to women. Strange that somehow the value of women
becomes lost in authoritarian culture/denominations. I love it that Jesus always HEARD women, just as He HEARD men. We are both of equal value to our Savior Redeemer!

The parallel in the Chespeake story and KingsWay upheaval is clear as in the light of day—for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear ——-The authoritarian manipulative control of SGM leadership/polity…maligns and seeks to silence Gods people…………
But then……”For such a time as this….” He raises up an Esther (Chesapeake story),
or an SW and MB and Mike D (the KingsWay story)—to become advocates of His Righteousness on behalf of Gods people. Why oh why that doesn’t cause SGM to realize the fear of God in their destructive mauling actions is a sad mystery to me……

By: Canary

Canary — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:44:32 +0000

I, too, have regrets about how I treated some people as a PDIer/SGMer. It is so good that we look at our own weaknesses in following leaders who were doing wrong. Some of our mistakes were from ignorance and some from fear. Then there were the mistakes made because we decided to follow men instead of God. Understanding and acknowledging our own responsibility in cooperating with abusive leadership will bring more freedom and peace to our hearts.

Women, I think we are sometimes the subject of authoritarian abuse because of the way in which we are perceived by controlling leadership. No matter what is “said”, our rights and respect as co-heirs to the Kingdom are lost when only men do the leading/ministering. We seriously have to seek the Lord on what our positions are in the His Kingdom here on earth, first as servants (as all must be) and then as priests (which we all are). In all things, love is our guide. Some leaders and even their wives will not allow women members to achieve all that God has for them simply because of their gender. They should take an example from the page of Jesus’ life, who spoke to a Samaratin woman about her need for God. She then became an evangelist to her own town!

By: Waters

Waters — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 05:20:24 +0000

Pilgrim,

Thankyou so much for writing.
I must tell you that I too was one that ignored the hurt of another—
Over ten years ago,I put on my best Stepfordite face ( my son-in-laws description!) and chose sides —two mothers were wounded because of the condition of their children and I chose to comfort one (the SGM member) and not the other (the former SGM member) . The smugness of my attitude makes me ill to this day. (And I too am thankful for Gods forgiveness and cleansing)
And, I am thankful, ever so, for … seeing… the pitiful depths of pride, arrogance and lording-over the SGM doctrine/polity/leadership manipulates Gods people with— because
we can ‘blow the trumpet’ to warn of their insidious actions.

Pilgrim, your description of the leaderships actions towards your friends who were cruelly victimized is so familiar —- many many many many many women can testify of this same pattern. The very pastor/elder she sought to trust for protection and care,became her accuser, maligner, and ally to the perpetrator. This is one of the most twisted, perverse and damaging results of the SGM teachings on pastoral authority and womens submission. Refuge readers, please remember that CJ has been given documented
accounts of these actions and patterns. Have we heard a cry of repentance and sorrow over such PATTERNS from the Gburg hill?? N O N E

The SGM pastoral/elder accusing and maligning of Brethren/congregants continues— as recently as the KingsWay upheaval. Just as in the pattern of discarding and then maligning abused women, D Harvey and GE confirm to the KingsWay congregants that they in fact have no valued input. Even though the Lord has moved on behalf of SW and brought to light the maligning and deceptions perpetrated by pastor/elder GE, SGM
employs Peacemakers to “bring peace”. (???????????????????)

Pilgrim exhorted for SGMers: “Don’t ignore the major DISCONNECT between what is said (or preached) and what is done”.
ASK QUESTIONS……………SEEK ANSWERS………….Sharpen sensitivity to the ‘checks’
and red flags Holy Spirit sends ——— the more He is ignored or deflected, the less His Voice and nudgings are heard.
He really does seek to deliver us from the ‘snare of the fowler’ — He has sovereignly delivered and redeemed us and our family member — Our healing is a process —but we are beyond thankful to begin to absorb the unfathomable depths of being loved and cared for by the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. There is none like Him……….

May the Lords Peace, which Jesus the Christ bequeathed to His Own, flood your spirit and mind, saints,— to hear Him above all voices and in all types of storms. He IS Truth!
He IS Life! He IS the door, the only door — and He opens ‘the way’ for us!
Love to you all, Waters

By: Waters

Waters — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:08:25 +0000

PK and PD,

We miss your voices…..
Just want to let you know am praying for you this morning……………

Col 1: 9-11– “That the Lord may continue to fill you with the knowledge of His will
in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, as you are walking in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the
knowledge of God. May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious
might, for all endurance and patience with joy………”

By: Pilgrim

Pilgrim — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:01:17 +0000

I was one who ultimately ended up looking the other way when I had friends who were seriously hurt by SGM. In particular, two friends became single mothers through no fault of their own. They needed lots of love and support. Their children suffered. After one incident, I was actually visited by two “elders” who questioned me about one of these women since she had been a close friend of mine. Rather than offering support to this victim, they assigned blame to my friend who had suffered a most horrible injustice and betrayal at the hands of her husband. I never looked at the elders as “henchmen,” but perhaps, unwittingly, they were. I figure they were sent by someone to do damage control. The “spin” had already been decided. I fell in line. I have relived this many times. It’s difficult to fathom the depths of deception I was in. I had so much to lose (or so I thought) by leaving my “happiest place on earth.” My whole world was wrapped up in SGM. To speak up in her defense would have meant the end of my world as I knew it. I have no excuse. I am so grateful that God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse me. Praise God.
For anyone who is still in SGM, take a look around you. Stand up for the weak and marginalized. God has called us all to do that. Don’t ignore the major disconnect between what is said (or preached) and what is done.

By: Waters

Waters — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 04:17:19 +0000

Thankyou, Fred, for taking the time to transfer Renee’s post here at Refuge.

Renee, the parallel you illustrate above is breathtakingly clear — really –
The CHOICE to remain silent in the face of SGM’s proven deceptions, maulings, and twisting of Gods Word as the Brethren are manipulated is more than disappointing,
it is deeply sad……and well, frightening.

What manner of person chooses to look the other way and walk over the trail of mauled and discarded Brethren? Oh yes, Jesus gave the illustration of this in the parable of the good Samaritan. The religous ones walked around the wounded bleeding man— but the Samaritan man SAW the wounded man—and tended to him and carried him to a safe place. The Samaritan didnot charge the wounded man with “not being wise” going down that trail…Or “selfish” to walk alone to his destination…Or having an “agenda” of walking the road he chose……….His motive was selfless love as he SAW the wounded man.
The religous Pharisees became ALLIES of the perpetrators/bandits because of their skirting around the “issue”, and continuing on their journey as they ignored a bleeding man.

SGMers, as Renee has asked, if you believe the problems, the abuses, the wrongs are REAL —what will you do?

Renee, I pray the Lord will strengthen your family and that He will tangibly pour out His unfailing love upon each of you…….

By: Fred

Fred — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 22:59:19 +0000

The following was written by renee over on http://www.sgmsurvivors.com. It is a powerful post and one that I hope many will read here at Refuge. I am posting this with permission from renee.

123
renee
November 9th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
The Missus –
You know, I have no desire to gang up on you, either. I’m more interested in hearing your answers to questions than I am in getting into a debate. Really.
I wanted to go back to something mentioned earlier. Both Kris and Pilgrim touched on the idea that simply because a person hasn’t experienced X, doesn’t mean X isn’t real and damaging.
The Missus and other SGMers reading this, may I share something with you?
I lost my aunt and uncle to terrorism. While others can feel complacent about this issue, as time goes on and it doesn’t happen to them, my family and I can never be complacent on the issue. It happened to us, to my “tribe,” and it leaves a huge permanent fissure.
In the Muslim community at large, there is no NO collective outcry against terrorism. The people who don’t do these things themselves, the people who say that isn’t what Islam is all about, the people who haven’t experienced it themselves, remain silent in the face of repeated terrorist acts. They say nothing and it infuriates me. I don’t think I’m alone in this.
Is that kind of silence okay with anyone else reading this?
And what does the silence of the Muslim community suggest? Whatever it is, it’s not good, is it?
Maybe this seems like an extreme analogy, but bear with me.
People in your tribe — the family of Christ — have been wounded, broken, traumatized at the hands of SGM. Within the rank and file of SGM, there is no outcry, no defense mounted of their brothers and sisters. Many SGMers are simply silent. Some refuse to acknowledge these things even happen. Some throw it back in the faces of the wounded, calling them “bitter” and “unforgiving.”
That you and other SGMers haven’t experienced the wounds and abuses that many have doesn’t negate their experiences and it doesn’t take away their pain. You and other SGMers believe you’re part of great church, a solid organization. It’s nice to believe that. It is. But in the face of plenty of evidence to the contrary, how can you still hold to that view? How is there no outcry?
You know, the man who killed my aunt and uncle and 215 others was an Egyptian. In the aftermath of it all, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak said it was “culturally impossible” for an Egyptian to have done what he, in fact, did.
This event was pre-9/11.
The lead hijacker on 9/11 was Mohammed Atta.
He was Egyptian.
Just as 9/11 proved it’s not “culturally impossible” for Egyptians to commit acts of terror, these SGM blogs prove it’s not “culturally impossible” for Christians to perpetrate wrongs against other Christians. Your brothers and sisters on this blog are trying to bring that point home to you, time and time again.
What will it take for you, SGMers? Your own spiritual 9/11?
Is that what has to happen to make you believe the problems, the abuses, the wrongs are REAL?
Is that what you’re waiting for? For the towers of your faith to come crashing down?
I pray it’s not so. I really do.

By: Fred

Fred — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:22:10 +0000

Yes Defended, I agree with you completely. My heart is very heavy this morning for the people but I lean in, press into, and trust my wonderful Savior! He is my strong tower and He is the Light of the World that will break through this darkness.

Steve and Janis Shank were at the Chesapeake church this past weekend. Apparently he came to announce the new church plant!

By: Fred

Fred — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:17:44 +0000

As I think about the pastors within SGM churches, I cannot but wonder what kind of pastors these young men would have been if they had never been associated with SGM. Would they have been pastors at all? Would they have found other professions or would they have felt the “call” to the ministry? As I think about these young men I am very sad. Sad that they have been deceived and taken advantage of by CJ and team. Sad that they have believed lies that have led them down the wrong path – a path of abuse, control, and manipulation. They have been seduced by the power, the prestige, the pride and the idolatry which drew them and caused them to cast aside the real Jesus Christ, the real body of Christ and real Christianity. How very sad for them, for their families and for their congregations. I lay this at CJ’s feet. He is the one responsible for creating this machine, for deceiving these young men, their wives and congregations.

There are many stories of abuse and manipulation that have never been published on any blogs but they are out there. As you learn more and more of the abuse, manipulation and yes perversion you become overwhelmed with the sheer darkness and evil which surrounds Sovereign Grace Ministries. My heart is so heavy as I consider this new church plant in Charlottesville, Va. for more people will be deceived, used, and taken advantage of. The possiblity of real abuse is always there within this SGM machine. The history of the movement proves this well. There have been so many people hurt and abused and yet, we have not seen repentance on the part of CJ for allowing “his” ministry to get so far off! Things continue on and they continue to plant more churches. More innocent saints will join their flocks never knowing what has gone on in the past. Parking lots will continue to fill up with cars and the deception continues. I cry out to the Lord……

By: Waters

Waters — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 04:17:39 +0000

Released reports:

Over H A L F the KingsWay congregants have left!!! WOW!!

Hmmmmmm I wonder how much TRUTH the Chesapeake congregants know about the revelations of lies, maligning of Brethren, and deceptions which GE has perpetrated upon his own ‘flock’——-Either they: Don’t know: Deflect the truth: Gloss over (scripture terms that as a whitewash); or choose not to care……..So truly sad to see the leaven of deception work its way into the hearts of the Brethren.

So Fred,

KB goes to KingsWay at the end of the Chesapeake upheaval (where he has been charged with disqualifying himself as a pastor)…to be “cared for” by Gene E.
Mentored by GE. Encouraged and discipled by GE.

Then the KingsWay upheaval occurs. Where was Keith?? Did he become an advocate on behalf of SW and the others who were attempting to bring justice on behalf of a brother who was maligned and scorned for TEN years? Where was he during the meetings??? What did he really learn from the Chesapeake trial?? Can someone from KW comment on that? I would love to be surprised.

And of course Steve S flew into Cheapeake to affirm KB and the Charlottesville church plant. Everyithing must be so very Biblically correct and in line to go forward (using some of that “rainey day fund” from Gaithersberg, I suppose?)

Fred, lets hope and pray SGM leadership has ceased and desisted from administering their abusive destructive unGodly cousel to women in crisis. If not, their arrogance and pride will continue to be brought to the light. God ALWAYS hears the cries of His Own.

And as RT said awhile back,….. lets remember to pray for the protection of the people in Charlottesville.