Comments on: When Will You Just Get Over It?

By: Fred

Fred — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:40:37 +0000

Chuck, Absolutely we are called to forgive unconditionally! We are not called to forgive only when the other person or party is repentant. I totally agree with Stunned! I would like to add that there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. As in the example that Stunned used, you are called to forgive the rapist but that does not mean you reconcile and are in relationship with him.

God is using the blogs to warn the people of grave danger within SGM churches. He calls some to be watchmen on the wall. Ezekiel 33:1-11 is very clear. Verse 3 states, “when he sees the sword coming upon the land, if he blows the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, if the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be on his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, but did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning will save his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman’s hand.”

We are called to forgive those who have sinned against us and walk in the freedom and grace that Jesus Christ has given to us through His death and resurrection. We are also called to obey Him and if He has called us to be watchman on the wall and blow the trumpet, it will not go well for those who do not obey!

By: Stunned

Stunned — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 16:40:53 +0000

I don’t believe FORGIVENESS is conditional for me. My life is too short to ruin its days with unforgiveness if I can help it. Forgiveness is for me, so I can live free.

But let’s not confuse FORGIVENESS with trusting when someone has proven themselves untrustworthy. I might forgive someone for raping me whether they are repentant or not. But I’m sure as hell not about to go into a dark room alone with them unless I believe there has been genuine CHANGE AND I think it is somehow in my best interest to do so. If I don’t go into that room with them, doesn’t mean I haven’t forgiven. Just means my momma didn’t raise no fool. (Actually, she did, but don’t tell my sister I said that. )

By: Chuck Sowers

Chuck Sowers — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 00:31:35 +0000

Question: If forgivness is always conditional – what does un-forgiveness look like?

Question: In comparison to forgiveness what is the difference in our response and attitude toward the unrepentant unforgiven person(s)?

Question: If you don’t forgive unless someone repents – do you try to remember all who haven’t repented and you havent forgiven as to keep up with who is unforgiven in your life?

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:51:59 +0000

Protestant Knight and Lin,
Right on with this statement: >>>I am leery of those who add to the Word what is not there…or read into it. We must examine all teaching and test everything. Even those things taught with good intentions.
This happens much often than we realize due to poor Bible study habits and a lack of knowledge of sound exegesis and hermeneutics. And, I’m afraid due to some faulty translations of some words.

By: Square Peg

Square Peg — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:46:37 +0000

Charlie —
“Malarkey.” To what “high malarkey” are you referring?

By: Charlie

Charlie — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 04:11:48 +0000

Can anyone help me with the spelling of the word milarkey…or in this care HIGH MILARKEY.

By: Canary

Canary — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:19:41 +0000

Ooooh, good question, Jim.

By: Jim

Jim — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:43:37 +0000

pp,

Assuming you're not a drive-by, are you a universalist?

By: Canary

Canary — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:43:39 +0000

Sure He forgave, but He didn’t approve of their sin. He still does not approve of sin, though He still loves and forgives us. SGM has sinned against many people but will not acknowledge that what we are saying is true. This isn’t about forgiveness, anyway. It is about being voices in the wilderness to try and stop the abuses of church authority that continues to ruin lives.

By: pp

pp — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:55:26 +0000

hey guys
just encountered this website…
what about Jesus on the cross ‘Father, forgive them for they no not what they do’.
is it real or potential forgiveness? what i mean is : did the father really forgive the people who put Jesus to death because of Jesus’ prayer. (‘them’: people who needed forgiveness: from Judas to potious pilate to all the mockers and soldiers around them, and all the jews)

By: John Umland

John Umland — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 23:00:05 +0000

More quotes today at Christianity Today
http://www.christianitytoday.c.....15.54.html
God is good
jpu

By: happymom

happymom — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:03:28 +0000

John,
Thanks for posting those links, they were excellent and so was Justin Taylor’s “Should we forgive the unrepentant?”
I agree with the above posts and think that forgiveness is a must, especially for ourselves. It frees us from something that can eat us alive and allows us to release the offender to God. I do not think we have to trust them again, that must be earned, but we are called to forgive, that is clear in scripture.
Not that that is always easy, but it sure feels better!

By: Juli

Juli — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:23:48 +0000

John U, I absolutely agree…good points!

By: John Umland

John Umland — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:07:22 +0000

I also believe when we pray as Jesus taught us and we say “Forgive US OUR sins” we ask the Lord to forgive those who sinned against us. See that developed more here, http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/200.....-sins.html
Hence, if we asked God to forgive US, then who are we to withhold it from them? See some links to stories here, http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/200.....thers.html

God is good
jpu

By: John Umland

John Umland — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:04:03 +0000

Regarding forgiveness and bitterness watch this non-Christian video.
http://www.slatev.com/index.ht.....4553949001
I don’t think we will always achieve reconciliation but I do think it is separate from forgiveness. No matter what, Jesus warns us if we don’t forgive, our Father won’t forgive us our sins. Matthew 6:14-15, so forgiveness is necessary. But reconciliation is not necessary. It’s nice. And it can have many different outcomes. It can include “agree to disagree” as well as “BFF” as well as never getting within arm’s length again. But reconciliation requires both parties agreeing to the need to go on that process. Forgiveness is an independent endeavor. Forgiveness – unilateral. Reconciliation – multilateral. I think it’s that way because forgiveness is something we settle in our hearts before God.
1 Corinthians 5 is different. I have only just started a blog series called “how to get kicked out of church.” http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/200.....hurch.html and http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/200.....hurch.html
I think it is about speaking truth in an assembly. If someone is doing certain things that separate the believers from the unbeliever, they need to be treated as an unbeliever and suffer the consequences of their sinful choices. When they come to their senses and repent, welcome them back.

By: Juli

Juli — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:33:36 +0000

Jim,

Good point. Personally. I think forgiveness has NOTHING to do with reconcilation. Now, repentance does imply reconciliation – that I do believe in the context of our relationship with God anyway.

Intresting about this topic because today I had the opportunity to bless an “enemy” I had struggled to forgive for three years. (not SGM related) What made this possible was realizing that I didn’t have to consequently extend the invitation to resume relationship with this person. I simply forgave them, blessed them, and set boundaries. There is no repentance on their part, and even if there was, I am not required to resume relationship until which time I feel “safe” and honored as a sister in the Lord. And even then, it is still my choice who I allow to be part of my life, and to what degree. And there should always be an equitable exchange of intimacy by both parties, not just one. And the relationship should not be based on sacrifice, but honor and reflecting individual value.

I can forgive SGM, but that doesn’t mean I am gonna hang out with my old SGM buddies, or go back to the church. I know you know what I mean here

People’s definitions of forgiveness and reconciliation, and expectations derived from them are all over the place.

We are told to forgive. Period. So that much we do. We are not told to put ourselves in relationships randomly or recklessly and give intimacy to anyone and everyone, especially someone who has abused that intimacy in the past (as SGM has for so many of us)

Forgiveness is not about trusting someone else. It is about release, and freedom. And ultimately, peace.

By: Protestant Knight

Protestant Knight — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:12:32 +0000

Lin: In regard to Matt.18, you said: "This added step could be used to hide all kinds of serious problems in the Body as we have seen happen. I am leery of those who add to the Word what is not there…or read into it. We must examine all teaching and test everything. Even those things taught with good intentions." You are 100% right on. ~John

By: Lin

Lin — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:16:07 +0000

An interesting aspect of this is in 1 Corin 5. How can we map the teaching there to forgiveness? Paul is clear there is a difference between those who call themselves brother and those who are in the world. He even gives a list of sins of those who call themselves brother and says we should not even eat with them! but those same kind of people in the ‘world’ we cannot avoid in our daily lives. We interact with them in business, etc.

But that teaching would be considered ‘unforgiving’ for someone who ‘calls’ themselves a brother in today’s Christian economy.

However, I want to advise folks to be very careful taking the teaching of Jay Adams without serious testing. At the True Church Conference last year, he taught on church discipline. He laid out the steps of discipline outlined in Matt 18. The problem? He added a step that is not in scritpure. He claims that it is implied in other scripture. The step he added is before you take it to the ‘church’. He says you must take it to the elders first. We can argue all day what is implied by ‘church’. But that is NOT what the text says. It says eklessia and this was before Pentecost. We also see that many Epistles were written to the entire Body. Not just the elders. As a matter of fact, we cannot name the elders for each church in the NT.

This added step could be used to hide all kinds of serious problems in the Body as we have seen happen.

I am leery of those who add to the Word what is not there…or read into it. We must examine all teaching and test everything. Even those things taught with good intentions.

By: MiMi

MiMi — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:43:48 +0000

Psalm 112,
I find myeslf agreeing with you. I know from recent personal experience, that there was a situation/relationhip that I had grieved over for many (and I mean many years). The woundedness from the years of abuses had affected my life and determined many of my choices. I had confronted the situation once a few years back, hoping for the person to admit their offenses. I really didn’t even care if they sought forgiveness, I just wanted them to stop denying it. It didn’t happen.

This past Christmas, the Lord prompted me to go to them, confront again and forgive them openly to their face. They of course, denied again, then finally admitted it, but the twist was that I deserved what happened, as my value was of no importance or consequence to anyone. WOW….at that moment, I realized the problem was theirs, not mine. I told them I forgave them (tho no repentence took place). I suddeny realized there would never be any reconciliation, but there was resolution for me. By forgiving, I was so freed from the anger and pain. I knew I had done what was desired by the Lord. There was such freedom in facing that there was not, nor would there ever likely be any relationship/intimacy again. I cannot explain, maybe I am wrong, but for me, forgiving, truly forgiving, left me in a place of freedom, where those many minutes of a lifetime longing and desiring for something that could never be, gave way to a joy I had never expected. By forgiving, and ridding myslf of carring around the memory and pain of the abuses, there was room for joy.

Although I don’t agree with the references at the top of this post, I do agree with the last comment by Piper.

“The difference is that when a person who wronged us does not repent with contrition and confession and conversion (turning from sin to righteousness), he cuts off the full work of forgiveness. We can still lay down our ill will; we can hand over our anger to God; we can seek to do him good; but we cannot carry through reconciliation or intimacy”

It is truly God’s forgiveness we all need. With unrepentance, comes the loss of mercy and reconciliaton with the Father for that person. I don’t believe they need my forgiveness to repair that loss, but as the listed scripture states, I believe I need to forgive for my own reconciliation with HIM.

My primary, ultimate purpose in life is to have that sweet communion and fellowship with my Jesus. If forgiving, whether there is repentance or not, brings me closer to the throne room, then forgivenes it is. I have experienced the joy and blessing from it!

MiMi

By: Jim

Jim — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:01:41 +0000

It might be helpful if those who disagree with the premise above would interact with the text. If the Scripture references sited are being interpreted incorrectly by these men, please provide your opinion of the correct interpretation.