Here are quotes from several others including Jay Adams, Lig Duncan, John MacArthur, Ken Sande, John Piper and blogging legend Justin Taylor (See Justin’s post, “Shall we forgive the unrepentant?”).
Jay Adams
Jay Adams argues without qualification that forgiveness is conditional. Notice Adams’ balance in stressing that Christians are obligated to try and bring an offender to repentance.
What shall we say then? It is clear that forgiveness-promising another never to bring up his offense again to use it against him – - is conditioned on the offenders willingness to confess it as sin and to seek forgiveness. You are not obligated to forgive an unrepentant sinner, but you are obligated to try to bring him to repentance. All the while you must entertain a genuine hope and willingness to forgive the other and a desire to be reconciled to him or her. Because this biblical teaching runs counter to much teaching in the modern church, it is important to understand it. Such forgiveness is modeled after God’s forgiveness which is unmistakably conditioned on repentance and faith.[1]
Ligon Duncan
This is a question that many Christians have never thought through. I think that Christians who have themselves harbored unjustified bitternesses and have been unforgiving in places and in ways that they should have been forgiving, often when they are confronted with and gripped by the radical teaching of Christ on forgiveness, out of sorrow for their own sin, read Jesus’ teaching on forgiveness in such a way that they understand it to mean that forgiveness is an automatic obligation in every circumstance, irrespective of the repentance of the other party. And, again, I think that that is a mistake. I believe that forgiveness always has in view reconciliation, and reconciliation is always two-sided. So if there is not a repentance corresponding to a forgiveness, then very often there is an impossibility of reconciliation. I think that whatever we think about forgiveness, forgiveness is a component to what is a larger picture, and the larger picture is reconciliation. And reconciliation is necessarily two-sided. Consequently, I think it is important for us to talk about both forgiveness and readiness to forgive. There may be circumstances where a reconciliation is impossible, but a readiness to reconcile can still be present with a believer. Consequently, I would want to make that distinction when I was counseling a believer who was in a circumstance where there was not a present possibility of reconciliation of the relationship. Instead of telling them that they need to forgive or they will become bitter, I think I would rather say that you need to be ready to forgive and not to be captured by your bitterness.[2]
John MacArthur
John MacArthur argues that for small matters there are times when forgiveness is unilaterally and unconditionally granted.[3] But, MacArthur also clearly states:
It is obvious from Scripture that sometimes forgiveness must be conditional . . . There are times when it is necessary to confront an offender. In such cases, unconditional forgiveness is not an option. These generally involve more serious sins- – not petty or picayune complaints, but soul-threatening sins or transgressions that endanger the fellowship of saints.[4]
Ken Sande
Ken Sande agrees that there are times when a matter should be overlooked.[5] And, he also agrees that in most ideally forgiveness should follow repentance. Sande pictures forgiveness as a two stage process. In his words:
When an offense is too serious to overlook and the offender has not yet repented, you may need to approach forgiveness as a two-stage process. The first stage requires having an attitude of forgiveness, and the second, granting forgiveness. Having an attitude of forgiveness is unconditional and is a commitment you make to God . . . By his grace you seek to maintain a loving and merciful attitude toward someone who has offended you . . .
Granting forgiveness is conditional on the repentance of the offender and takes place between you and that person . . . When there has been a serious offense, it would not be appropriate to [make the promises of forgiveness] until the offender has repented.[6]
Justin Taylor
”Love your enemies” is something that we should do at all times and in all places. It is modeled after God’s love for his enemies, whom he loves even when they are “unjust” and “evil” (Luke 6:35). At the same time, our forgiveness of others is likewise modeled upon God’s forgiveness of sinners, whom he forgives conditioned upon their repentance. God does not forgive apart from repentance; neither should we. In major offenses, we are not to forgive the unrepentant.
In the event of a tragedy that involves the loss of human life brought about by wanton human sin, it is therefore wrong for Christians to call upon immediate forgiveness in the absence of repentance. Such a call both cheapens and misunderstands the biblical doctrine of forgiveness.[7]
John Piper
In a sermon, John Piper pointed to the conditional nature of forgiveness.[8] While Piper allowed that at points Christians should forgive unconditionally he also added:
One last observation remains: forgiveness of an unrepentant person doesn’t look the same as forgiveness of a repentant person.
In fact I am not sure that in the Bible the term forgiveness is ever applied to an unrepentant person. Jesus said in Luke 17:3-4 “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.” So there’s a sense in which full forgiveness is only possible in response to repentance.
But even when a person does not repent (cf. Matt. 18:17) we are commanded to love our enemy and pray for those who persecute us and do good to those who hate us (Luke 6:27).
The difference is that when a person who wronged us does not repent with contrition and confession and conversion (turning from sin to righteousness), he cuts off the full work of forgiveness. We can still lay down our ill will; we can hand over our anger to God; we can seek to do him good; but we cannot carry through reconciliation or intimacy.
[1] Jay Adams, From Forgiven to Forgiving: Learning to Forgive One Another God’s Way (Amityville, NY: 1994), 37.
[2] A Roundtable Discussion on Forgiveness: Derek Thomas Interviews Ligon Duncan and Justin Taylor, (Reformation 21, accessed October 23 2007); available from http://www.reformation21.com/Upcoming_Issues/Forgiveness_Roundtable/354/.
[3] John MacArthur, Forgiveness: The Freedom and Power of Forgiveness (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 1998), 122-128.
[4] MacArthur, 119, 128.
[5] Ken Sande, The Peace Maker (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2004; reprint, 3rd), 79-99.
[6] Sande, 210-211.
[7] Justin Taylor, Is Forgiveness Always Right and Required(2007, accessed July 15 2007); available from http://theologica.blogspot.com/2007/01/is-forgiveness-always-right-and.html.
[8] John Piper, As We Forgive Our Debtors: What Does Forgiveness Look Like(Desiring God Ministries, 1994, accessed September 19 2007); available from http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/1994/868_As_We_Forgive_Our_Debtors/.
Outstanding post from http://www.chrisbrauns.com, Jim. However difficult it may be, I have to navigate these waters regularly (all Christians do). Does receiving forgiveness mean going away and shutting up? Does forgiving always open doors to reconciliation? Good thoughts and questions for me to ponder, particularly in this season.
I think the big one for me is what to do in the aftermath of speaking the truth in love, if results on either side are far from being “resolved,” from whichever party’s perspective. I know we speak a lot about finding our identity in Christ, but I do think this is crucial when entering (and exiting, frankly) these situations.
~John
These are awful and destructive teachings. Unforgiveness will destroy a person. Let me suggest another definition of forgiveness. When I forgive someone I relinquish all my claims of justice against someone before God. I let God handle it. It’s much better having an argument with someone you have already forgiven. Remember Jesus’s warning at the end of his example prayer in Matthew 6: 14-15 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. I’d rather err on not waiting for someone to repent before I forgive them.
I’ve been spiritually abused more than once, and I’ve never been part of SGM. If I waited until my abusers repented, I’d still be holding onto something they don’t care about. Let go and let God.
God is good
jpu
Very interesting. Much to ponder. Thanks, Jim.
Years ago I read a two-in-one book, by David W. Augsburger, called “Caring Enough To Forgive/Caring Enough Not To Forgive,” that deals with the entire forgiveness-and-repentance process.
In the first section he emphasizes the need for forgiveness to those who repent of sin. In the second, he emphasizes the need for repentance by those who sin — and that Christians should be slow to grant forgiveness to those who are not ready or willing to repent.
Augsburger is against what I’d call “greasy forgiveness” — the desire to grant forgiveness and restore a relationship, just to move on, but without true repentance (meaning an admission of sin *plus* some kind of commitment to change the thinking/behavior that cause the sin) by the offending party).
I think anyone struggling with forgiveness issues regarding their SGM experience would do well to read this book.
“greasy forgiveness” – that’s awesome!
John Umland has it right:
Matthew 6: 14-15 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
How would the parable of the unforgiving servant (Matthew 18:23-35) read as told by MacArthur or Piper? The master forgave the servant 10,000 talents, but the servant refused to forgive his fellowservant because that man still owed him one hundred pence (i.e., he didn’t repent)?
Sorry, I will take the words of Jesus over John Piper or Justin Taylor. And I’m a person who struggles with bitterness and holding grudges, so I know it’s not easy.
It might be helpful if those who disagree with the premise above would interact with the text. If the Scripture references sited are being interpreted incorrectly by these men, please provide your opinion of the correct interpretation.
Psalm 112,
I find myeslf agreeing with you. I know from recent personal experience, that there was a situation/relationhip that I had grieved over for many (and I mean many years). The woundedness from the years of abuses had affected my life and determined many of my choices. I had confronted the situation once a few years back, hoping for the person to admit their offenses. I really didn’t even care if they sought forgiveness, I just wanted them to stop denying it. It didn’t happen.
This past Christmas, the Lord prompted me to go to them, confront again and forgive them openly to their face. They of course, denied again, then finally admitted it, but the twist was that I deserved what happened, as my value was of no importance or consequence to anyone. WOW….at that moment, I realized the problem was theirs, not mine. I told them I forgave them (tho no repentence took place). I suddeny realized there would never be any reconciliation, but there was resolution for me. By forgiving, I was so freed from the anger and pain. I knew I had done what was desired by the Lord. There was such freedom in facing that there was not, nor would there ever likely be any relationship/intimacy again. I cannot explain, maybe I am wrong, but for me, forgiving, truly forgiving, left me in a place of freedom, where those many minutes of a lifetime longing and desiring for something that could never be, gave way to a joy I had never expected. By forgiving, and ridding myslf of carring around the memory and pain of the abuses, there was room for joy.
Although I don’t agree with the references at the top of this post, I do agree with the last comment by Piper.
“The difference is that when a person who wronged us does not repent with contrition and confession and conversion (turning from sin to righteousness), he cuts off the full work of forgiveness. We can still lay down our ill will; we can hand over our anger to God; we can seek to do him good; but we cannot carry through reconciliation or intimacy”
It is truly God’s forgiveness we all need. With unrepentance, comes the loss of mercy and reconciliaton with the Father for that person. I don’t believe they need my forgiveness to repair that loss, but as the listed scripture states, I believe I need to forgive for my own reconciliation with HIM.
My primary, ultimate purpose in life is to have that sweet communion and fellowship with my Jesus. If forgiving, whether there is repentance or not, brings me closer to the throne room, then forgivenes it is. I have experienced the joy and blessing from it!
MiMi
An interesting aspect of this is in 1 Corin 5. How can we map the teaching there to forgiveness? Paul is clear there is a difference between those who call themselves brother and those who are in the world. He even gives a list of sins of those who call themselves brother and says we should not even eat with them! but those same kind of people in the ‘world’ we cannot avoid in our daily lives. We interact with them in business, etc.
But that teaching would be considered ‘unforgiving’ for someone who ‘calls’ themselves a brother in today’s Christian economy.
However, I want to advise folks to be very careful taking the teaching of Jay Adams without serious testing. At the True Church Conference last year, he taught on church discipline. He laid out the steps of discipline outlined in Matt 18. The problem? He added a step that is not in scritpure. He claims that it is implied in other scripture. The step he added is before you take it to the ‘church’. He says you must take it to the elders first. We can argue all day what is implied by ‘church’. But that is NOT what the text says. It says eklessia and this was before Pentecost. We also see that many Epistles were written to the entire Body. Not just the elders. As a matter of fact, we cannot name the elders for each church in the NT.
This added step could be used to hide all kinds of serious problems in the Body as we have seen happen.
I am leery of those who add to the Word what is not there…or read into it. We must examine all teaching and test everything. Even those things taught with good intentions.
Lin:
In regard to Matt.18, you said:
“This added step could be used to hide all kinds of serious problems in the Body as we have seen happen. I am leery of those who add to the Word what is not there…or read into it. We must examine all teaching and test everything. Even those things taught with good intentions.”
You are 100% right on.
~John
Jim,
Good point. Personally. I think forgiveness has NOTHING to do with reconcilation. Now, repentance does imply reconciliation – that I do believe in the context of our relationship with God anyway.
Intresting about this topic because today I had the opportunity to bless an “enemy” I had struggled to forgive for three years. (not SGM related) What made this possible was realizing that I didn’t have to consequently extend the invitation to resume relationship with this person. I simply forgave them, blessed them, and set boundaries. There is no repentance on their part, and even if there was, I am not required to resume relationship until which time I feel “safe” and honored as a sister in the Lord. And even then, it is still my choice who I allow to be part of my life, and to what degree. And there should always be an equitable exchange of intimacy by both parties, not just one. And the relationship should not be based on sacrifice, but honor and reflecting individual value.
I can forgive SGM, but that doesn’t mean I am gonna hang out with my old SGM buddies, or go back to the church. I know you know what I mean here
People’s definitions of forgiveness and reconciliation, and expectations derived from them are all over the place.
We are told to forgive. Period. So that much we do. We are not told to put ourselves in relationships randomly or recklessly and give intimacy to anyone and everyone, especially someone who has abused that intimacy in the past (as SGM has for so many of us)
Forgiveness is not about trusting someone else. It is about release, and freedom. And ultimately, peace.
Regarding forgiveness and bitterness watch this non-Christian video.
http://www.slatev.com/index.ht.....4553949001
I don’t think we will always achieve reconciliation but I do think it is separate from forgiveness. No matter what, Jesus warns us if we don’t forgive, our Father won’t forgive us our sins. Matthew 6:14-15, so forgiveness is necessary. But reconciliation is not necessary. It’s nice. And it can have many different outcomes. It can include “agree to disagree” as well as “BFF” as well as never getting within arm’s length again. But reconciliation requires both parties agreeing to the need to go on that process. Forgiveness is an independent endeavor. Forgiveness – unilateral. Reconciliation – multilateral. I think it’s that way because forgiveness is something we settle in our hearts before God.
1 Corinthians 5 is different. I have only just started a blog series called “how to get kicked out of church.” http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/200.....hurch.html and http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/200.....hurch.html
I think it is about speaking truth in an assembly. If someone is doing certain things that separate the believers from the unbeliever, they need to be treated as an unbeliever and suffer the consequences of their sinful choices. When they come to their senses and repent, welcome them back.
I also believe when we pray as Jesus taught us and we say “Forgive US OUR sins” we ask the Lord to forgive those who sinned against us. See that developed more here, http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/200.....-sins.html
Hence, if we asked God to forgive US, then who are we to withhold it from them? See some links to stories here, http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/200.....thers.html
God is good
jpu
John U, I absolutely agree…good points!
John,
Thanks for posting those links, they were excellent and so was Justin Taylor’s “Should we forgive the unrepentant?”
I agree with the above posts and think that forgiveness is a must, especially for ourselves. It frees us from something that can eat us alive and allows us to release the offender to God. I do not think we have to trust them again, that must be earned, but we are called to forgive, that is clear in scripture.
Not that that is always easy, but it sure feels better!
More quotes today at Christianity Today
http://www.christianitytoday.c.....15.54.html
God is good
jpu
hey guys
just encountered this website…
what about Jesus on the cross ‘Father, forgive them for they no not what they do’.
is it real or potential forgiveness? what i mean is : did the father really forgive the people who put Jesus to death because of Jesus’ prayer. (‘them’: people who needed forgiveness: from Judas to potious pilate to all the mockers and soldiers around them, and all the jews)
Sure He forgave, but He didn’t approve of their sin. He still does not approve of sin, though He still loves and forgives us. SGM has sinned against many people but will not acknowledge that what we are saying is true. This isn’t about forgiveness, anyway. It is about being voices in the wilderness to try and stop the abuses of church authority that continues to ruin lives.
pp,
Assuming you’re not a drive-by, are you a universalist?
Ooooh, good question, Jim.
Can anyone help me with the spelling of the word milarkey…or in this care HIGH MILARKEY.
Charlie —
“Malarkey.” To what “high malarkey” are you referring?
Protestant Knight and Lin,
Right on with this statement: >>>I am leery of those who add to the Word what is not there…or read into it. We must examine all teaching and test everything. Even those things taught with good intentions.
This happens much often than we realize due to poor Bible study habits and a lack of knowledge of sound exegesis and hermeneutics. And, I’m afraid due to some faulty translations of some words.
Question: If forgivness is always conditional – what does un-forgiveness look like?
Question: In comparison to forgiveness what is the difference in our response and attitude toward the unrepentant unforgiven person(s)?
Question: If you don’t forgive unless someone repents – do you try to remember all who haven’t repented and you havent forgiven as to keep up with who is unforgiven in your life?
I don’t believe FORGIVENESS is conditional for me. My life is too short to ruin its days with unforgiveness if I can help it. Forgiveness is for me, so I can live free.
But let’s not confuse FORGIVENESS with trusting when someone has proven themselves untrustworthy. I might forgive someone for raping me whether they are repentant or not. But I’m sure as hell not about to go into a dark room alone with them unless I believe there has been genuine CHANGE AND I think it is somehow in my best interest to do so. If I don’t go into that room with them, doesn’t mean I haven’t forgiven. Just means my momma didn’t raise no fool. (Actually, she did, but don’t tell my sister I said that.
)
Chuck, Absolutely we are called to forgive unconditionally! We are not called to forgive only when the other person or party is repentant. I totally agree with Stunned! I would like to add that there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. As in the example that Stunned used, you are called to forgive the rapist but that does not mean you reconcile and are in relationship with him.
God is using the blogs to warn the people of grave danger within SGM churches. He calls some to be watchmen on the wall. Ezekiel 33:1-11 is very clear. Verse 3 states, “when he sees the sword coming upon the land, if he blows the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, if the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be on his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, but did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning will save his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman’s hand.”
We are called to forgive those who have sinned against us and walk in the freedom and grace that Jesus Christ has given to us through His death and resurrection. We are also called to obey Him and if He has called us to be watchman on the wall and blow the trumpet, it will not go well for those who do not obey!