Thanks for the answers.  The questions are an amalgam of my personal experience, and what I have viewed from my “cheap seats”.  The direction to PK was from my curiosity of his perspective.  I liked the quote, as it sums up both my historical, and more recent experiences.  All are welcome to answer, and thank you for your perspective.  Trying to make some decisions per our conversation. 

Do not apologize for your passion for God’s people! 

Jim,

Thanks for you answers to PFR.  Very clear and helpful.

You’re quoting Juli, so I’m not sure if you’re addressing John (PK) to get his response.

My response would be-
a-I don’t know.
b-absolutely.
c-the actions of some of the leaders would reflect this.
d-the general opinion seems to be that our very existence is sinful.
e-who knows? I haven’t heard this charge.
f-the actions of some pastors would reflect this.
g-correct, in my experience.
h-I don’t know.

PK, perhaps this is because

a- They do not feel that they have done anything wrong.
b- They do not believe that they are accountable to us.
c- That they believe they are righteous ones, being slandered and maligned.
d- That they may believe that we are the biggest sinners.
e- They may believe that we are no longer Christians.
f- That protecting the reputation of the church is more important than truth.
g- That people should vote with their feet, not with their tounges.
h- All of the above and more..

Sorry Quizzler, had some questions of my own. 

Thank you, love, for your gracious words.  Those scriptures are a wonderful thing to cling to today.  How God speaks to me through you!

I love you,

John

We are individuals on here with passion, ideas, and giftings.. not some conglomerate of hurting people, which is the beauty of it all!

I know why you are doing what you are doing. And I know what SGM will think when they see it. But…I also know God is at work. He wants His people set free.

SGM- Jim and PK have conceded to nothing except being human..which is more than you guys have ever truly done.

I hope those reading will see the biggest difference between the men here (and posters) and the men in SGM leadership and even some posting online, like “Roy”: integrity.

We’ve had our family spats online, we’ve disagreed, we’ve made snarky comments, we’ve made mistakes..but at the end of the day..we’re still family. We still love and support one another. We ask forgiveness and we extend forgiveness as necessary, on GOD’S TERMS as WE are individually led by the Spirit. True conviction, true repentance. And no one is walking away wounded from HERE.

And through it all – lots of grace has been given out to one another. We’ve given grace upon grace..and honestly, it is way past time that SGM make a public statement (public being ON THE BLOGS you cannot comment on – like CJ’s) or for them to personally pick up the phone and call or email Jim or John or Guy or Kris directly – not through someone else, directly.

John, welcome to the “other side” of SGM.  I am praying for your family as you take this step of faith. I’m always encouraged (but never surprised) at the love I see on the blogs.

But…I hope SGM will respond in a way that is in keeping with repentance for all they have allowed and proliferated. Repentance first, then reform. ANd SGM knows EXACTLY what they need (or are being asked) to repent for, whether they agree or not is to be seen.

Let’s not forget:
SGM has been reading more than one blog dedicated to letting those hurt under their pastoral care share stories. They have been reading for almost 18 months now.
Not once have they said a word publicly.
Not once have they contacted Guy, Kris, John, or Jim.
Not once has CJ Mahaney, the figure head and man responsible for these churches, said ANYTHING.
Not once has SGM apologized, acknowledged sin or any wrong doing.
Not once has anyone in the larger reformed or Christian community come forward to say “THIS MUST STOP!”

Instead:
SGM has remained silent.
CJ has said nothing.
Apostolic directives are given to deter people from blogs.
Pastors begin preaching publicly against the blogs, slander, dissention and pass out copies of that Powlinson paper.
Pastors and care group leaders send out emails about the integrity of blogs and passing on reports.
In local churches, shunning, slander, control and manipulation continue, and in some cases, INCREASE despite the increasing knowledge of the “bigger problems” in SGM.
SGM men LIE and assume a fake identity on the Survivors blog, pretending to be a “victim” of SGM and mock the pain and suffering of hundreds publicly.

this is jacked up. SGM has not only taken no steps towards repentance, they have been posturing themselves this entire time and think we don’t know it. They are defending their actions and teachings, nothing has changed, it has only gotten worse.

MotL, thank you especially for the kind, undeserved words.

~John (pk)

Amen and Amen!!

It is so easy, in our own pain and zealousness to act/speak out of emotion.  We at times tend to not have that “godly” balance we need in dealing with issues close to our hearts.  Many times, when operating that way, we can cause more damage, that promote the good that is on our hearts.  I HAVE BEEN THERE!  Many years ago, I handled things incorrectly.  My motivies were good, but my method was completely unscriptual.   As I said, it is easy to be swayed that way when our hearts so desperatly want to see HIS will being done, and not man’s.

THE HARD PART is standing up stong in the grace and forgiveness of our Savior and HIS FATHER and making things right as you and Jim have done this week.  Though, looking back, as you two have, you see those things not pleasing to HIM in behavior, HE has done as HE promised,  “taken what Satan meant for evil, and used it to HIS glory.”  You two, through your honesty, transparency, and humility, have reminded us all on this sight, that it is our hearts HE sees that please HIM, not always actions.  You and Jim have shown us and reminded us, to keep HIM ever present before our hearts and lips when we are in conflict with others. 

Most importantly, you two have brought us into the throne room of GOD, demonstrating to us, how HE desires we deal with one another.  Thanks to you both for allowing HIM to us you two in our lives.  It isn’t always easy to be an instrument in the hands of a mighty GOD.

Oh yes…..you are most certainly forgiven.

MiMi