EXACTLY.

I always thought that it wasn’t happening here.  But as we’ve actually started asking people why they have left our church and just sat and listened, I’ve been shocked and saddened to hear their stories.   It is eerie to see the common threads happening to people I know and those I’ve read about here.  Most of us are just quick to chock it up to a one-time occurance because we live in an imperfect world, without realizing that it is habitual. 

Good point.  “Torment” is quite a strong word.  If one is in fact “tormented” in a church then they should leave. 

That certainly was a strange use of words.

I thought the torment comment was a bit odd – sorta tongue in cheek – making Fred look like a baby or something.  Uncalled for by leaders who are suppose to “stand in the very stead of God”.  Fred, again, I sympathize.

What is really sad is when they “ask” those that have been members for a while who have faithfully served the church to leave without doing much to try and “peacemake” before they do this. 

Though still not right, it is one thing to ask someone newer to the church to leave but to do this to one who has been a faithful member for a while is a lot worse and I am sure it traumatic on those “asked” to leave.

“After our CGL was fired, the new CGL who is a pastor had a meeting at his house along with the sr. pastor.  He told us that if we were tormented by SGM’s ways/govt., etc. then we should leave SGC because God would never want us to be tormented like that. ”

I have one other thought on this.    For this CGL/pastor to say this and make it a one way street shows this person was quite presumptive and arrogant.   He was saying that he and SGM was fully correct in what they did and that there wasn’t even a possibility that he or SGM could be doing anything wrong  It was the old if you don’t like it, it is my way or the highway, so you just need to leave. 

Wouldn’t have been the more proper approach for this leader to have said that we can discuss it and then for the leader to do some introspection so see if maybe what they were doing was wrong?  I am glad the leader apologized but his initial action really seemed to show his heart etc. 

I’m one of the many who was “shown the door” because of doctrinal differences.  It isn’t a nice feeling to be asked by the people you thought loved you, to leave.  It was the last thing I expected.  But there is so much more grace and faith outside of SGM, at least in my life.  The freedom to think for myself has been something I never experienced before leaving.  That was over ten years ago, and I continue to grow in grace and love for the Lord.

Congrats on finding your way out of the bondage!

I think this is absolutely what more and more are finding, sadly. There truly are degrees of hurt and blame we have all experienced it but the common denominator is we were hurt and experienced some sort of loss(es)..I said to Carole the other day that once Noels’ story was shared, some posters made comments that their own stories and experiences, by comparison, were “nothing” – but each story is what it is..yes, some are decidedly more horrific and disturbing, like Noel’s..but we each “own” our individual experiences.

I think that is one of the problems fundamentally in this, many of us have sort of lost our individual identities while in SGM and we were only encouraged/taught to be able to think collectively and in the context of the Body..as a result, when the WHOLE Body doesn’t experience the same hurt, it is not validated, acknolwedged, or understood. Yet this is unbiblical, since as the Body, when one part suffers, the entire suffers.. SGMers reading here need to know that – which is why I think there will be an increase in the assumption that we aren’t really part of the Body (as they define it) ultimately..this reasoning will justify their lack of response to us. (*just my prediction)

it isn’t about comparing stories and perspectives and things being black and white, right or wrong….there really is much grey here. it’s about the right we have, as believers, to simply share our experiences, have the chance to be heard, and find some encouragement, correction and exhortation within a Body (this blog) that is founded on love and grace. Just because I didn’t experience what Noel did, I’m not going to doubt for a SECOND it didn’t happen! Yet that is what has happened so many times- you see, so many in SGM who have not experienced the things we have, simply dismiss it…they will remind us over and over that not everyone feels the way we do – well, I don’t think anyone here assumes that..I’ve read more than once that people agree there are some good teachings in SGM, if there weren’t we would not have been part of it while we were..but we aren’t here to discuss what is good about SGM, that is what Girltalk and CJ’s blog are for…we’re here to discuss what needs to change, and the effects certain teachings, etc have had on us, as part of the Body.

SGMers want to focus only on the positive points to the dismissal of the negative…and wonder why we don’t discuss the positive more..well, that’s like saying to a wife whose husband cheated on her to focus on his positive qualities and just move past the fact he commited adultery…(as an aside, this actually HAS happened in SGM counseling sessions, but that is another post!)

this type of deflection, shifting blame, and avoidance is not healthy, productive, or wise…it doesn’t lead to peace either. In order to get the glass out of your foot and heal the cut, you don’t keep walking on it until it goes back under the skin, you pull it out, as painful as it is, apply some ointment or balm, and allow it to truly heal. You keep it covered and clean, careful not to allow it to become infected. I love all the analogies we have in life that truly are just wisdom that can be applied to other areas, you know?

Thanks for sharing your experience with either being “asked” or encouraged to leave.  It is sad but true. 

I find this type of treatment a contradiction to Josh Harris having a book out titled  “Stop Dating the Church.”  If Harris wants to push for more of a marriage vs. “dating” situation with church membership then it would call for SGM trying to work things out or conflict resolution vs. pushing members to the door. 

After our CGL was fired, the new CGL who is a pastor had a meeting at his house along with the sr. pastor.  He told us that if we were tormented by SGM’s ways/govt., etc. then we should leave SGC because God would never want us to be tormented like that.  This was our first meeting after the big hoorah on Dec. 20th to which most of us were not even invited.  The pastors could have paved the way for the healing process to begin for us but what they did was encourage us to walk out the door (of SGC) which is what several of us did. By the way, he did apologize later during the meeting but it was already out there – you know like toothpaste when you squeeze it out of the tube?

SOME MIGHT SAY?!?!?  Ha ha ha ha.  Oh, you’re killing me.  Some might say?  That is one of the saddest/funniest things I have heard in a long time.  Ah, some.  Ha ha ha ha.  it’s like the bully girls on the playground in middle school, but in dressed up (er, I mean uglier grown up man form).  Ah, some.  Like that is to mean anything.  So glad you asked for specifics.  That is hysterical. 

While I feel that my mind has been messed with and I’ve chucked discernment far to many times, I’m thankful that the wounds don’t go as deep for us as they have for others.  As I’ve visted these blogs over the last several months I’ve always told myself that our church was one of the exceptions.  It is so sad to see how wrong I have been and that just because I personally haven’t dealt with drastic manipulation and control doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening.

This is great advice for those on here that are still in their respective SGM churches.  Following this council will help stem the potential damage at least to some degree. It has for us.

Thank you for the welcome back, and what a shame to only meet you now and not earlier!

You do know that when I read your posts, I will hear Derek Jacobi’s voice, don’t you?

~pk

Your insights and findings are remarkably familiar to me.

“What’s it”

ooooooohhh - now we’re shaking in our boots brother! Are you actually trying to threaten or scare the people from the Gilbert church who are reading and posting here? Reminding them of some sort of “magical pastoral power” over them?? what was the motive behind that comment all about, seriously?

It would be beneficial to your argument here if you could get two things straight:

1) the leadership EVERYWHERE in SGM is fully aware of what is going on here, they have for quite some time. We’re not in hiding. Despite your constant reminders that we’re all anonymous, we’re not. (Myself included, Juli is my REAL NAME, you’ve obviously visited my blog and know I am from Texas. No darkness here.) And those who are anonymous have a right to do whatever they want..it’s a free world outside of SGM, but I can see how you could forget that considering your vantage point. So go ahead. “Tell on us” – but I have to ask, if they didn’t know about this blog or the posts here, and you DID tell, would it be considered slander and gossip? Just asking.
2) we (including the influx of recent refugees from the Gilbert church) aren’t under the authority of CJ, your pastor, Steve Shank, any other apostle, or anyone else in SGM. We are under the authority of Jesus Christ. As has already been discussed, WE ARE THE BODY. It is ultimately HIM we answer to. SGM can’t make us DO or THINK anything, anymore, and that is REALLY what the problem is in their book.

and to respond to your suggestion that I am acting like SGM – hahaha..ok, now that my hysterical laughter is out – no, I’m not acting like SGM. Here is what SGM would do – Incidentally, when did I say you were i sin? Did I even use the word sin? I didn’t. It must be all in your head. You’re imagining things. DO you FEEL guilty? Cause if you do, that is conviction. I was simply stating what I was observing as the fruit in your life. You should first examine your own heart before addressing the sins in others. Since you are addressing the sins of BB by not following Scripture or submitting to leadership, I would imagine that you first took the time to remove the plank from your own eye..allow me to speak some truth into your life..

ok..enough playing around… I never said you were in sin Matthew, I said you were calling BB names and being a bully. Now, if those are sinful things in your mind, hey, that’s between you and God. I’m just saying that it isn’t NICE.

Signed,
Your Sister in Christ, Juli, from the Free Republic of Texas

We have been very busy with our investigative work in the Gilbert Forest area. We have spoken with numerous Gilbert SGC exiles. They are an emotionally and spiritually scarred folk.  Though bloodied from battle, their spirits are being restored and their faces are once again reflecting the glory of the Lord.  A consistent strong theme ran through all the stories.  Stories of hyper control and manipulation in which children as well as parents still find themselves caught in the talk of self introspection consumed by their perceived sins, with the view of the Savior and His transforming power nowhere in sight.

We will relate our findings over a period of time so one can adequately assimilate just what was done to these souls. In this first chilling installment, let’s talk about how the intimacy of care group can define you for life.  As one of my interviewees said, SGM’s teaching on sin coupled with caregroup application can be “toxic” to the individual and family.

Did you know that individual attendance is taken at all care groups and the names are forwarded to the appropriate pastor?

Did you know, depending on how zealous the care group leader is, that a person’s problems and confessions get reported on special forms up the chain of command? Some CG leaders give more detailed that others.

Did you know that a person’s problems can then get discussed amongst the pastors?

Did you know that those intimate things you shared about yourself, your spouse and your children can be shared at the CG leaders meeting?

It seems that each care groups has its own file in the pastor’s office.

Did you know that because of the information above that folders are kept about many individuals in the church?

Did you know that if one changes care groups, the new leaders might be told about past failings, weaknesses, and sins of both the adults and the children in the family?

Finally to the dear saints still attending SGC:  Some tips on how you can survive.

First, never, ever invite the pastors or care group leaders into your hearts or your minds to judge your motives, be your conscience, or to be the Holy Spirit telling you how God is directing you. Find a trusted Christian friend preferably outside the SGC local church to be your confessor.

Secondly, sharing personal or intimate information in caregroup is not wisdom. Even Jesus had levels of friendships. He shared things with the twelve that were not shared with the 70. He shared things with the three, Peter, Mark and John which weren’t shared with the twelve. And only John, beloved of the Lord, had the identity of Judas revealed to him at the Last Supper. Be smart. Lose lips can not only sink your ship but your spouse and family as well.

Has anyone heard how the economy will be affecting SGM employees?  Will they be taking a paycut?  

Wondering if each church’s 10% franchise fees — er, i mean — tithe to SGM will be lowered given the current financial crisis of our economy.

NOT Fun.

Dang, I think to myself.  Shank must have had something pretty important to do if it affected the Pastors paychecks and they were in a Family Meeting about it…What could Shank have on his calendar that night?  Oh, no, and then the light goes on, so I say to my buddy, Shank won’t have his paycheck messed with or any accoutability to his “Local Church”.

Yup, that paycheck stuff, ain’t none of yo business!  

Hey Jim, is this a Shankin’, or what?