Like SGM, I believe that Paul is referring to the current state of the believer in Romans 7, but feel that this has been over emphasized in SGM, leading to a type of navel gazing. The Christian’s sin can also be used as a weapon. I find this manipulative. I’d love to see SGM focus on the believer’s identity in Christ for a year or two, to bring balance to their over-emphasis on the power of indwelling sin. I also believe that an empty cross without an empty tomb is a truncated Gospel.

I think the under-emphasis on our Risen Lord, along with our identity in Him would be the truncation. Too much looking behind-not enough looking at the right now.

As believers, shouldn’t we do both?

Inspecting fruit is obviously Biblical – but it has been lumped into the category of being critical, just like speaking the truth gets lumped in with gossip and slander.

so I guess the question to ask is – what does the Bible say is the difference between fruit inspecting and having a critical spirit? The flip side to discernment, I have always said, is a critical spirit. I discern things all the time..yet when and how does one cross the line? What keeps us FROM crossing the line? And when we get accused of the sinful motives, how can we know our consciences are clear before the Lord?

I have my thoughts, just wondering what you guys thought about it..

Sorry, Stein, I couldn’t resist the mental image of you inspecting Canary’s handiwork

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!  You do mean, inspecting my fruit, right?

The way a bird usually spreads seed around is to, well, drop it out of its beak or…..well……the business end. Sometimes, I get surprises in my garden and we cll them, “volunteers.”

Sorry, Stein, I couldn’t resist the mental image of you inspecting Canary’s handiwork.

I see the good fruit that has been redeemed from my own life in SGM – I was bearing bad fruit though, I got a SERIOUS whack job with the Lord’s hacksaw that he uses, all the while He’s saying – “I know, I know, this hurts, just hang in there!”

Then he began pruning my heart and life, and I am just now beginning to see the beginnings of new fruit and “life” in my life – it is rather exciting! I was so dead, wilty, and disease ridden for so long, not to mention infested with fungus, mold and God knows what else – oh yeah, yeast/leaven perhaps? haha

Ok, so you and Gracie and Carole know I’ve been thinking of gardening lately, hence the analogy above that has gone amuck..is that how you spell amuck? heehee what a fun word. I like running amock in God’s grace, it is rather joyous!

I would love it if Brent or Joshua, someone with clout, would come here and talk with us.  Whoops, Brent doesn’t have as much clout, now.  However, I think he would speak fairly with us.  We were in his church for enough years for me to know that he is an honorable man (I’m not ignoring the fact that he did do some of us wrong by his actions).  He sincerely believes what he believes.  We sincerely believe that SGM polity is sincerely off by megatude degrees.  So, why can’t Brent, or someone like him, come here and talk with us?  (By the way Brent, if you are reading this – nothin’ but love for you!).

Now, to something encouraging.  My husband has believed this for years.  PDI/SGM is like a big seed bag being carried by a man.  There is a hole in the bag, and seed is dropping on the ground as the man walks.  He doesn’t realize it, but this seed is falling to the ground and sprouting.  Many of us who had to leave SGM are that seed.  We have taken the good from them, and are throwing out the bad (by reprocessing what we were taught, and only keeping the truthful parts).  So, hopefully, the trees that are being planted unknowingly by this organization will bear good fruit.  You know how God loves good fruit.  That reminds me – hey Stein, where are you? 

Funny you should ask, as I’m writing right now, during lunch. I’ll post today or tomorrow.

In the meantime-trudge through the polity posts, my friends.

We can obviously expect a full-backdoor (they aren’t interested in full frontal) assault from SGM pastors, as the “apostles” are now giving directives on how to deal with us.
I’ll share more later-back to real life…
 

Will you be sharing more about this soon?

I would add ministering healing to those wounded by abusive religious systems and their leaders who have been blinded to the dangers by the simple fact that these systems tend to run like well-honed machines. Both wounded soldiers and blinded pastors are on my prayer list!

But for those who really don’t know what a pixel is, it’s what internet photos and websites are made of, right? Hundreds to thousands of little pixels? Sort of like the body of Christ has many members…

PERFECT definition!

Pixel – person who has been freed from spiritual abuse and oppression resulting in boldness, clarity and passion for the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. Can often be found ministering in the real world, getting their hands dirty, having their hearts tugged and torn, crying with others, praying for others and reading their Bibles. Many utilize the wonderful tool of the internet to spread the Good News of the gospel to captives of the world and captives of religion.

or something like that

5yrs,
Unfortunately, Piper gets lumped into “the bad guys group” and is often guilty by association. I won’t comment on much of it, as I don’t personally care or benefit from his teachings or hyper-focus. But I suppose we all hyper-focus to some degree, on what gives us “passion” and Piper’s is clearly not the same as CJ’s. But they agree on other points.

The thing is, at what point does someone like Piper, with affiliation and endorsement by a brother such as CJ, say “OK, that’s far enough – you’ve crossed the line there.” ?

It’s difficult to determine these things – and when and how do you speak up about them. Perhaps with all the negative press about SGM, and you can bet Piper knows as well as others, that they will withdraw their degree of fellowship as more is revealed. It’s one thing to say you don’t agree with a paritcular doctrine or teaching, but when that doctrine or teaching is resulting in wide-spread abuse of brothers and sisters, I think the time has come to speak up against it.

Piper would be one to do so. Dever seems also blind to the shepherding (based on his website papers on church discipline and some of his views on polity), albeit a “softer” approach, he agrees with enough that he likely won’t rock the boat. Mohler I have hopes for, and of course I’m sure Johnny Mac will link it somehow to the charismatic beliefs – haha. Since shepherding manifests differently in reformed and charismatic circles, certain other teachings run alongside them, then it would be hard to say who would pick up on what..since SGM is constantly changing and redefining, they are hard to pin down..

some smart cookies over at the Puritan Board not long ago who were discussing whether or not SGM was truly reformed picked up on that constant change very quickly, and pretty much dismissed SGM as orthodox, reformed and sound. (much to the disagreement of one lone SGMer who kept going back to his paster for input to put in the board to defend their beloved SGM, it was sad)