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That is what I saw in the churches I was involved with.  The control, focus on sin, etc., happened gradually.  I do remember the early days being great (80′s). 

“apostolic covering” is the only thing charismatic about SGM these days, that and the reinvented prophetic mic and the contemporay worship..if a Presbyterian or Reformed Baptist, say, walked into an SGM service, they would likely mistake the frantic worship of the Church and the idols/pastors for a frenzied charismatic movement…they both look similarly shocking ya know. 

I’m being kinda silly here..but I think you all get my point

It seems to me that since CJ is amping up his ties to nationally known reformed teachers, they may take offense to his self-appointed “Apostleship”…and he knows this…he knows he looks silly to these truly learned and truly educated and truly deserving men …. but they aren’t so boastful as to self-appoint themselves “Apostles!” How silly he must appear to them.

Therefore, he takes away the term “Apostle” from printed literature to show that he ain’t a nut case….meanwhile….back at home…let the apostolic accolades flow!

Yessir.  <sound of kool-aid being slurped?

Words mean what we tell you they mean.

Got it?

I also had questions about the apostle thing.  i tussled with one of my beloved students the other day.  He said that the men on the apostolic team were not apostles.  So are men on the pastor team not pastors?  Are men on a baseball team not baseball players?  Are members of the pigpen not wee piggies?

Silliness to the rest of Christendom.

A denomination jumps up and down, whining that they are a family of churches, not a denomination.  But ‘denomination’ simply means they share a name and a commitment to their own beliefs and practices.  I’m sorry, can someone argue why that is not so with SGM?

Silliness.

Members of the APOSTOLIC TEAM don’t want to be called apostles.

Silliness.

Words mean things. Look them up. 

Yeah, I remember reading someting about that in Acts. I’m sure it’s Biblical.

I don’t know if to laugh or cry!

I refuse to believe that SGM churches promote missions, evangelism or outreach as the BIBLE defines it. The token “orphanage” in Mexico is so overused as their defense of “but we do missions!” – we all know what THAT “mission” is really like..

they don’t know HOW to relate to the “average” guy who could care less about who Piper or Spurgeon are because they are hungry, depressed, lonely, in prison, or some other area of need way beyond SGM’s capabilities.

SGMers should face it, SGM pastors aren’t equipped to deal with INTERNAL needs of the church as we have seen PROVEN time and again by the many stories (and these are just s sampling, we know there are more), much less the messier and uglier needs of the world. It’s beneath them, both in capability and in terms of their willingness. I’ve NEVER seen it modeled, it was ALWAYS about getting people into the church, THEN they would minister, and even then, I saw person after person leave, only because the people in the church didn’t know how to minister to them, and these poor people would end up taking off.

I don’t blame the individuals in the church, many of them truly reached out, but the problem was, the leadership was so preoccupied with getting all the SGM material into their heads, that they neglected to EQUIP the saints for the minstry they are called to by Jesus Himself. The equipping of the saints doesn’t mean open a library and educate people on the “right” books to read, convert them to calvinism, or make them a SGM junkie.

Sorry, I’m ranting. Where’s my soapbox?? Oh well. I started out commenting on your comment FF and this is where I ended up? haha

I read recently that politicians figure for every ONE person that takes the time to write them about an issue, there are 300 who feel the same way but don’t contact them. I’d say it is higher when it comes to spiritual abuse, because of the fact more people are in fear to speak up. So even if that lower figure is even close to being accurate, then there are MANY people who have been hurt or at least in disagreement with SGM practices/teachings.

But even at ONE church – Chesapeake, 1/4 of the congregation went AWOL in ONE week? That’s some bad news for SGM. Just wait, the numbers are going to crawl.

http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/07/15/sgm-polity/

So they employ this method in other areas – it seems to work well by the way, because it leaves people confused and scratching their heads, saying – well, they DON’T refer to themselves as apostles, so how is it everyone calls them that? And, by the way, when nobody in leadership corrects you, you keep going..

When I was learning German while living in Germany, I was shocked. Not only did my textbook learning not prepare me for daily life, but I quickly found out that despite what the textbooks taught, in reality, German people use “this” word or phrase instead of “that” and it means “this”…so to test these things out, I would try them – I’d use phrases and vocabulary words that were new to me in various situations at work, school, or in the pubs. When no one corrected me, I assumed I had it right and was using it in the right context. For someone learning a new language this is critical, and until someone corrects you, you go on assuming things are OK.

Then came the day that I used a phrase directly translated from my textbook and was met with roaring laughter – it seems I had made a GREAT social no-no in terms of conversation that was highly inappropriate..but they knew I was still learning the language and therefore corrected me. Never made the mistake again..for those of you who speak German, the phrase was “Ich bin heiss” which is not something you should say to anyone, except maybe your husband. But the room I was in was rather warm, and I wanted to accounce my discomfort..

So anyway, I digress into German grammar, see what I have become??  haha

Backto SGM language – we used words and phrases, thoughts and ideas and “tossed them out” to see responses..over time, when no one corrected us, we adopted the ideas as solid, good, and so on. At the same time, we were always picking up new language to use..new terminology, buzz words, etc and we knew what these phrases and saying implied because we had heard them used time and again in context..so we figured it out. Thus begins the process of redefinition that makes SGM so famous (and much in behavior like a cult, since cults are also known for redefining terms (see the book Kingdom of the Cults for more explanation) therefore managing to gain more control over you by keeping you confused and deceived, thinking that the way you think is the same way they think, or in our case, the way the Bible teaches..you end up adopting ideas that are unbiblical and thinking it falls into the same category as “thus sayeth the Lord”)

Re their polity, the posts are great, it is not just that they don’t vote for elders or have any congregational involvement.  It is that they base this on the fact that CJ and possibly others have the apostolic gift, so they have the sole knowledge of and authority over what happens in each church.  Much more than any other denomination there is.