canary-I have the email, as it has been forwarded many times. I haven’t received the author’s permission to post it.

Funny, my husband and I used the baaa,baaa,baaa after we left.  We had been sheep following blindly after a few false shepherds.  I do have to add that we learned many good things during our17 years in PDI/SGM.  However, the scripture on the leaven fermenting the whole lump of dough turned out to be so true.  It isn’t enough to have some good teaching, when that leaven sits there in the back room, growing and growing.  By the time we realized what was going on, the whole church was covered in yeast.

Be Bold,

I am so thankful you posted your view.  I wonder, would it be too provacative to ask you to send Jim the letter that started the process of the Gilbert church
repentance Sunday? I can understand if you think it is the wrong move. Welcome to the blog!

If it wasn’t for these blogs, all of what happened would just be swept under the carpet and hidden. sgm has a LONG history of doing the same thing – look at Ohioan’s story on the other thread, the church split in AZ back in the 80′s, the other church splits among sgm. The leadership’s answers tends to be “people where in sin” and then they slander the folks they have hurt (see Noel’s story, saying her husband has a problem with “lying” because one time at church he was asked how he was and he said “fine” and the pastors, in their “infinate wisdom” where some how able to “decern” that he wasn’t “fine” and quickly wrote it down in his file). A newer tactic seems to be the “apology”, thanks to the blogs. The sgm faithful who eyes haven’t been opened yet eat it up (see stein, billy, etc comments).

The idolatry seems to be a key – the sgm faithful wouldn’t eat it up so quickly (and I am not referring to those who have been shown the truth) if idolatry wasn;t so prevelant. In my younger days, I used to refer to the phenomonon as “pastor said it, it must be true, I believe it – baaaaa, baaaaa, baaaaaa”. Idolatry is a huge issue and the leadership promotes by their actions.

Perhaps in the case of David B it was a combination of behind the scenes complaints as well as whatever it is that apostles deem as “lack of gifting” – his case seemed to have combined the two instances (valid complaints, AND lack of gifting) does that make sense?

I’m wondering about the displaced pastor from the Aurora church, what was his name? He was moved to the Westminster church and now that pastor has stepped down. Wonder what is going through HIS mind about now..

Correct-although I think David B in Westminster got off easy. He should have been shanked, and in a much stronger manner.

Thank you helping us connect some dots.

I agree with your assessment.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and some facts about the Gilbert church (I think you did a good job to stay on topic and focused with little personal commentary, well done!)

I’ve been praying for many in that church since last fall, when I began to get emails from many of the members (ladies of course). I am so thrilled to see the Lord is yet again revealing truth. Have we ever seen anything like this before? To me this is astounding that in less than one year, there are (and these are just the ones I personally know of) So I’m going ot recap just the few things…please add to it anyone, if I got something wrong..

1) Sr pastor stepped down/removed from Aurora, CO church last summer after Shank visits, congregation surprised.
2) Sr Pastor stepped down/removed from San Diego church last Fall after Shank visit, congregation surprised.
3) problems in Fairfax church as a result of Noels’ story begins December 2008 as a result of the blog and pressure put on leadership to answer – no change in leadership, no repentance on the part of leaders involved.
4) major upheaveal over Esther’s story – pastors asked to step down in Chesapeake church, they refuse, “apologize” and church begins to split. No change in leadership.
5) church plants planned for Colorado canceled by Gilbert church, the congregation is surprised.
6) SR pastor of Aurora, CO church steps down after Shank visit, congregation surprised.
7) upheaval and problems in Gilbert church, letters circulated, public “apology” no removal of pastors, no change in leadership.

I think I see a pattern here. Besides Shank being the hatchet man…when the BODY brings the accusation against the leader, they are ignored and nothing changes except for damage control and some manipulative apologies… But when SHANK, or SGM leadership brings the accusation, these men crumble, repent, apologize, etc….that is insane. But in keeping with the control and manipulation. They feel they don’t need to be accountable to the sheep, but they better obey the shepherds over them of they will lose their jobs. You can see from this pattern who is serving who. ANd God isn’t in the picture.

does anyone else think this is normal practice for the Body of Christ? The Body is sick, we are all suffering as a result, and I’m thinking some “part” should get amputated for the good of the rest of the Body. Problem is, the part that needs to get amputated is the same part holding the knife, er, the shank.

Me: SGM seems to do alot of damage control – send up the most likeable pastor to do the deed. The second word in damage control is CONTROL – sgm is famous for that one! Look at the Chesapeake church and their damage control “family meeting” – they brought back the most well liked pastor (EH) from his indoctrination at PC to stand up with the other pastors. I know why EH is well liked (and for good reason, too bad he’s drank too much of thee kool-aid!) CONTROL. I didn’t listen to the message, so I am thankful for the summaries (I couldn’t listen to it without being overly cynical, so thanks for the posts that are much better than how I would have address what they said).

The thing that really gets me is how the member that brings home the most cash gets the personal appology. The pastors know exactly how much the man gives to the church (don’t anyone beleive for a minute that they don’t), so assume he is tithing 10% of his gross income (as shank is the “apostle” and shank as taught that it must be 10% of the gross and not the net, and it is all income, not just a base salary), assume he makes 500k per year (just a guess, I have no idea how much this person makes) – he’s giving 50k per year to the church. Say he takes in a million a year (salary, investments, bonuses, etc), then he’s giving 100k per year. That’s a pretty good chunk of the church budget. Say the church has a 2 million a year budget, that’s 5% of the budget from one source (using the 1 mil figure)- the are going to protect that source.

Interesting thoughts…..

Carole, I’m guessing it has something to do with us possibly peeing ourselves laughing at each other’s jokes? (I mean, we’ve both given birth, right?) 

Yes, the letter that went out was from a “high profile” couple, although they would likely not be comfortable with that term. They are a humble couple, leaders in the homeschool community, and wise in the Word. The letter went out just a few days prior to the message. I had a feeling the letter would be addressed in some way during the Sunday meeting, because there was damage control to be done. As I listened to the message two things were glaringly obvious to me. 1. Rich was taking great strides to combat some of the “issues” that have been recently circulating throughout the church and on the blogs and it was extremely evident to me that his “confession” was carefully crafted. 2. It was also evident to me that his “confession” was spoken in a way that if my eyes were not already opened to this, I would have been one of the first ones to stand and applaud him in the end. I was saddened by this because I feel that there are many within the Gilbert congregation who were beginning to question some things and I knew that after his “message” Sunday, there was strong potential for them to be sucked right back in.

The members that he publicly commended for supporting a parachurch organization (Joni and Friends) have been supporting that organization for years and years and have been members of the Gilbert church from the earliest stages. They have never been publicly commended for there involvement with Joni and Friends ever before Sunday. It was as if their names were pulled out of the community outreach file to be held up as the shining example of “look at how we as a church support this kind of thing”. There are only a couple of other families within the church that are also heavily involved in parachurch organizations, and I can tell you with certainty, that they are not “hailed” for it and any way.

The man who was publicly apologized to by Rich is a Care Group Leader. I have no strongly formulated opinions on whether his financial contributions to the church had anything at all to do with him being chosen as the recipient of the apology, but regardless, he is one of the wealthiest men in the church. Possibly the wealthiest. I mean him no disrespect at all by sharing that, because from my understanding he is also a man worthy of great respect and honor. I assume (and I know I said I would try to stick to the facts) that the things he brought to Rich’s attention were legitimate and sincere appeals regarding Rich’s sin. I have no trouble believing that he was sincerely owed an apology from Rich, however I am not sure that a public forum was the best place for it.

Then there is also the confusing issue of, “Who really does lead the Gilbert church?” Yes, Rich is the senior pastor. However, the church is definitely “lead” by Glynn Mackenzie. I would be quite surprised if anyone within the Gilbert church would argue with that. Glynn is the pastor who will be leaving to go save the Denver church from self-destruction. I pray for the Denver church, they can’t possibly conceive of what is to come.

There has been a proverbial verbal and emotional slaughtering of many families within the Gilbert church, and all at the hands of pastors other than Rich. He is one of the last ones (here I go being opinionated again) who should have been standing up there apologizing that Sunday.

It was mentioned in one of the earlier posts that Rich seemed to be in Steve Shank’s good favor. That would be true. Rich really is a good guy. He’s a very likable guy and I do believe, fully, that he has been sucked into the system. He is a very young pastor, 35 years old. He’s been the senior pastor there, I believe since he was 29. He came in under tremendous accolades, which ironically SGM is so infamous for. They puff you up to HUGE proportions, but then they knock you down when you show the least bit of pride. When he arrived on the scene after working under Craig Cabaniss for a while, his own father, Trey Richardson, stepped down from his role as the “temporary” senior pastor in order for Rich to step up to the “calling that God has clearly placed on his life”. I tell you all of this only so you have an idea of the age of this pastor. His age was not a negative in his pastoring or preaching at all, however, I believe it to have been a major influence on how easily he has been “lead” by the other, older pastors in the Gilbert church. There are two particularly controlling pastors within the Gilbert church, one being Glynn and the other Trey, and both of them absolutely carry more influence over the “culture” of the church than does Rich. Their pastoring styles are vastly different, Glynn being overtly controlling, and somehow respected for it. Trey being subtley controlling and the one who people tend to flee to if they are weary of Glynn.

There was also an earlier comment referencing that there have been two other families who have recently left prior to the high-profile couple leaving. There have actually been several other families who have left, possibly a little more under the radar, over the past year or so. However, these two particular families did indeed leave for the same reasons. I know both families and they are steadfast in their love for the Lord, but their departures did not cause the uprising that the other family’s departure did, I believe for several reasons. One, their letters were sent to fewer people. Two, their families were very, very close which seems to have led to speculation that one family may have influenced the other, although I know them both and that is absolutely not the case. Three, both families had been “pulling away” for quite a while as their eyes have been slowly opening for a long time, but was being seen by most as sin on their parts for lack of involvement. And four, they were easier to dismiss as leaving for “wrong” or “sinful” reasons than the other family who was very well respected, and rightfully so, they are also a wonderful family. All three families have already received a fair amount of “correction” from well meaning friends and for all three families the shunning process has begun.

The message Rich gave was damage control. The high-profile couple’s letter going out to such a large group dictated the necessity of a public “hearing” of sorts. There was no other option than for the pastoral staff to use the public forum of the Sunday meeting to address what they saw as the most immediately divisive  and controversial issues brought up in “The Letter”.

I apologize for the length of this post. There is much more to say, but I am realizing how lengthy this has become.

I was thinking, say things did change when it came to how leaders actually led – there was no shepherding – then things like what books to read, whether or not to homeschool, etc would not be such an issue.

Now, I do think you will ALWAYS have people in all churches with more fear of man than fear of God. Even pastors and leaders how don’t lord over or “shepherd” like SGM leaders do can still be worshiped and idolized..it happens all the time.

but in that case, I do think it is more rare, more easily noticed by others (because the leaders don’t encourage it or foster an environment that does) That brings me to in my opinion, second biggest problem in SGM: over-emphasis on indwelling sin.

I don’t know – I’ve been thinking lately, did my pastors EVER point me to Jesus? When I told my former Sr pastor that somehow, in three years of being “at the Cross” I somehow missed Jesus. I couldn’t figure it out. He had no response. Could it be nobody ever truly pointed me to Him? They pointed me to books, man, leaders, SGM, how to mortify my sin (gee, thanks John Owen, brilliant ideas, NOT!) etc. but never Jesus. Never grace. Never faith. Never the Spirit of God. Was it their responsibility as leaders? Yes. Was it my responsibility as well to learn these things in God’s Word myself? Yes.

here’s the thing, they did point me to Jesus, in a sense. Jesus on the Cross – dying for my sins, Jesus on the Cross – because I am so wicked at heart.  He never came off that Cross! It was always made to feel PRESENT TENSE, not past tense. So much for the finished work of Christ. I would feel the guilt and crushing shame every single Sunday morning. As a result, I slowly slipped into a legalistic lifestyle – I so desperately was convinced I could never please my Father because I was so wicked, since Jesus was hanging on that Cross, and I am a wretched wicked sinner, and what hope is there? So I worked – not for my salvation in my own thinking, but for my sancitifcation – I did things to please man, to please the Lord, and all the while losing my joy and dying spiritually, completely disconnected to God’s grace. But I have to ask now – if one is working for their sanctification, as I was, no wonder Paul called it another gospel – having begun in the Spirit, being perfected in the flesh. So to answer the many comments that SGM preaches the gospel, and this blog hinders it – I strongly disagree. This blog has the complete and total gospel – SGM only presents HALF the story of the gospel, and the result leaves many people in bondage and falling short of God’s grace..the irony. Sovereign Grace. Gives a whole new meaning to it.

This is a dangerous cycle in SGM (and legalistic churches) where the focus is on indwelling sin constantly. So to say it isn’t important is unwise and foolish. It is important to discuss this focus of SGM and point it out to them as well. Will they listen? Who knows. But we will share our testimonies and end the silence because the silence is where the battle is lost, and by the truth is how the victory comes..

Because power and control are sooooooooo intoxicating, I have little hope.  Once that model is in place, change is very difficult. 

What did the “apostle” Gene say at the Chesapeake meeting, “…change in the SGM model is no more likely than them changing the Bible?”  To be fair, I wasn’t at the meeting, but I did read that thought (paraphrase) stated by Gene Emerson, indicating that He had ZERO intention of changing how the Chesapeake church did “business.” 

I can just wonder how flexible the elite power brokers would become if their consumer base would not show up to do “church” this Sunday morning?  I have little hope on that account as well.

I know, I know, some of what I said sounds cynical, BUT what has happened to the business of “church” today makes me sick to the stomach.  We have our multi-million dollar buildings, our staff of “pastors,”  offices, computers, parking lots, classrooms, office supplies and office staffs but are powerless, connected to the state with our non profit exemption, which gives the state control over certain topics.  But as long as revenue flows, all is well, and we have the feeling that God is blessing all that we do.  I really am sorry if some of that sounds direct and a little negative, BUT I happen to love the Church, the bride of Christ, and what we’ve allowed to happen is deplorable. 

I think of Ester, Noel, and countless others, many who we haven’t even heard from but are being crushed.  How about some of the SG “pastors” that have been “Shanked” because of others more “gifted?”  How about “pastors” who feel compelled to go along with it all because they have bought into this whole thing to the point of feeling that they have gone beyond the point of no return: Their identity, their vocation, their families, their incomes are all tied to SGM.  So they feel pressured to dance to the tune and trying to make a difference but get sucked further into the machine of religion.  Breaks my heart!!!

You are absolutely right. Funny, the SGM pastor who helped in the adoption of my former sgc taught this.

Perhaps it would be good for CJ to state this, and for it to be taught at the PC.

It never ceases to amaze me that we take a scripture or two and make a doctrine out of them and totally ignore how it fits into the whole-incredible.  If it wasn’t so sad, I would say that some of us deserve to be under the little “popes” that insist on our blind obedience.  The sheparding movement still exists in SGM, doesn’t it–so very sad!

This is SGM 101. Leaders are to be obeyed. The job of the “sheep” is to submit, and to ensure that they are a “joy to pastor”.

EXACTLY.  That is SGM polity, though.  If leaders stand in the very stead of God, then they know better for your life than you do.  People have been known to ask permission to move, to go into missions (which was refused), to leave (the response was, I’m sorry but your are not in a good place to decide that for yourself), to marry, to have a party – my ex- pastor decided that anyone who wanted to throw a party had to submit a request to the church office (if the party included more than 4-5 people).  He would then check his calendar see if anyone else had planned a party on the same day (like Christmas).  His reasons?  So that people in the church who might be invited to both wouldn’t have to decide between which invite to accept.  No kidding, my Christmas party request was denied because another party was all ready planned by someone else. I don’t even think they were on the same day!  Bizzare, but true.  Leaders are to be obeyed.  They even test whether you will follow them without question, if you are being considered for leadership.  I am not exaggerating our experience.  We left in 1997, but nothing seems to have changed, if you believe all the posts on this blog.  Sad.

What makes it difficult and even odd for the members is that, all at once, they are expected to obey these new leaders, and confess sins to someone who is a complete stranger.  I remember when we relocated on a church plant that I was expected to tell my faults, etc. to our CG wife, whom I did not know.  It felt odd, but I didn’t understand at the time, why.  Now I see that it isn’t “normal” to trust a stranger that much just because some men we don’t know well, tell us to. 

So, putting a pastor into a church whom no one knows, but who everyone is expected to obey and follow, is odd, at best.

There are certainly very gifted and passionate men in the church right now who couldhave been raised up to attend the PC. Why the outside man? Why a man from the apostle’s church? That is my point. It seems when Paul instructed Timothy to oversee the church he was in, that the men in leadership came from within, not without. They were KNOWN to the local Body there. How else could they be tested and then placed in leadership if they were unknown?

I’m sure this young man was “tested” and then placed, and he is well known by his own pastor (the apostle) and leadership there. The problem is, the decision was made BEFORE anyone here knew him. They have only met him socially a few times, he’s preached there at least once, and that is it.

It seems the local Body here is asked to trust the judgment of a man 5 hours away to confirm the gifting and calling of the man to be the pastor here. That doesn’t make sense to me. This man was not tested in the true sense of Scripture – within the Body he would eventually be leading.

I know, this goes back to the SGM model of polity, vs congregational rule, etc. But I guess so many things which I disagree with about SGM leadership, practices, etc actually do stem from that same tree of thought. If you agree with the model, this does not seem strange to you. I know many churches practice this type of leadership placement ALL the time: Episcopol, Methodist, Catholic churches..I just don’t agree it is Biblical.