Comments on: A “Get Well” Plan from Scott and Connie http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/ ...is a castaway haven, and a clarion call for reformation. Mon, 06 Sep 2010 15:48:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: The Quizzler http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-9156 The Quizzler Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:00:04 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-9156 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM..... We know this much.......... I Corinthians 15:33 ...........beware Ken. N.S.L.B. Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM…..

We know this much………. I Corinthians 15:33 ………..beware Ken.

N.S.L.B.

]]> By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-9144 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:51:55 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-9144 One other thing to consider, Ken Delage has been at Kingsway for almost a year now under the tutelage of Gene Emerson who exercised "oversight" over the Chesapeake debacle not long ago.  I say that because Gene's influence, good or not so good, will tend to shape Ken's pastoral methodology.  click <a href="http://www.kingsway.cc/pastorsandstaff.php" rel="nofollow">here</a>  Gene is the "apostle" over that region of "churches," so Ken will be subservient to Gene, for what it's worth. One other thing to consider, Ken Delage has been at Kingsway for almost a year now under the tutelage of Gene Emerson who exercised “oversight” over the Chesapeake debacle not long ago.  I say that because Gene’s influence, good or not so good, will tend to shape Ken’s pastoral methodology.  click here  Gene is the “apostle” over that region of “churches,” so Ken will be subservient to Gene, for what it’s worth.

]]> By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-9141 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:34:45 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-9141 <strong><em>ReformedTeacher</em></strong> Ken Delage, who will be the sr pastor of the Fredericksburg, VA church plant, is part of the leadership team at Kingsway right now as a Pastoral Intern.  So, to answer your question, the church plant from Kingsway is the Fredericksburg VA plant. ReformedTeacher

Ken Delage, who will be the sr pastor of the Fredericksburg, VA church plant, is part of the leadership team at Kingsway right now as a Pastoral Intern.  So, to answer your question, the church plant from Kingsway is the Fredericksburg VA plant.

]]> By: Fred http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-9126 Fred Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:45:56 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-9126 Mack, I say this with much love in my heart for the whole body of Christ, brothers and sisters:  Please run as fast as you can from this new church plant in VA.  Until such time as SGM is truly reformed, it is not a safe place for you or your children.  The movement as a whole has taken a path which is far off from the true, genuine Gospel.  It is not a healthy environment for any Christian.  Please, don't risk it for yourself or your children.  There are so many healthy, vibrant churches filled with Believers who are worshipping Jesus and walking in Truth, abundant life and victory.  Please O Please, find one of those churches for your family.  May God bless you as you seek Him and the fullness that only He can offer you. Mack, I say this with much love in my heart for the whole body of Christ, brothers and sisters:  Please run as fast as you can from this new church plant in VA.  Until such time as SGM is truly reformed, it is not a safe place for you or your children.  The movement as a whole has taken a path which is far off from the true, genuine Gospel.  It is not a healthy environment for any Christian.  Please, don’t risk it for yourself or your children.  There are so many healthy, vibrant churches filled with Believers who are worshipping Jesus and walking in Truth, abundant life and victory.  Please O Please, find one of those churches for your family.  May God bless you as you seek Him and the fullness that only He can offer you.

]]> By: Scott http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-9125 Scott Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:37:14 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-9125 Mack I knew the young man who is slated to be the sr. pastor at the Fredericksburg church-plant.  He was from the Chesapeake church and a great guy.  However, the real issue with this church-plant (and probably any other SGM church-plant) is that it is a "franchise" of corporate SGM.  That in itself is not bad, but as with all franchises you can only get the product or service that the franchise offers (you cant rent a U-Haul trailer at McDonalds).  If you are in agreement with what is being offered at a SGM franchise then it may be for you (or your family member).  It was my experience that the offerings as well as the basic corporate goals and policies weren't readily apparent on first look.  Various doctrines (baptism of the Holy Spirit being one) were even changed over the years without much, if any, announcement to the members of the church.  Corporate views on benevolence and caring for the broken in my particular church were obscure at best and have only recently come into full focus. My advice to your family member who is considering joining a Sovereign Grace church is to ask lots of very pointed questions and demand very clear and concise answers.  Encourage your family member to make a list of doctrines and practices that are important to them and see where the church stands on those.  Mack

I knew the young man who is slated to be the sr. pastor at the Fredericksburg church-plant.  He was from the Chesapeake church and a great guy.  However, the real issue with this church-plant (and probably any other SGM church-plant) is that it is a “franchise” of corporate SGM.  That in itself is not bad, but as with all franchises you can only get the product or service that the franchise offers (you cant rent a U-Haul trailer at McDonalds).  If you are in agreement with what is being offered at a SGM franchise then it may be for you (or your family member). 

It was my experience that the offerings as well as the basic corporate goals and policies weren’t readily apparent on first look.  Various doctrines (baptism of the Holy Spirit being one) were even changed over the years without much, if any, announcement to the members of the church.  Corporate views on benevolence and caring for the broken in my particular church were obscure at best and have only recently come into full focus.

My advice to your family member who is considering joining a Sovereign Grace church is to ask lots of very pointed questions and demand very clear and concise answers.  Encourage your family member to make a list of doctrines and practices that are important to them and see where the church stands on those. 

]]> By: ReformedTeacher http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-9123 ReformedTeacher Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:34:59 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-9123 Thanks, Mack. Thanks, Mack.

]]> By: mack http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-9109 mack Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:16:27 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-9109 The new church starts in Fredericksburg, VA on May 11.  There were people in a loose church organization there already and some from the Fairfax church will be joining them. The new church starts in Fredericksburg, VA on May 11.  There were people in a loose church organization there already and some from the Fairfax church will be joining them.

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8948 canary Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:17:13 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8948 RT, Wish we had those smiley men like on Survivors.  I love the ROFL one! RT,

Wish we had those smiley men like on Survivors.  I love the ROFL one!

]]> By: ReformedTeacher http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8947 ReformedTeacher Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:13:47 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8947 Mack--welcome! Where is KingsWay planting a church?  Florida? Thanks! Mack–welcome!

Where is KingsWay planting a church?  Florida?

Thanks!

]]> By: ReformedTeacher http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8946 ReformedTeacher Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:12:56 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8946 Canary--ROFL!  Canary–ROFL! 

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8940 canary Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:50:00 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8940 Juli,   Sweetie-pie, I think Mack is a woman...easy mistake to make.  We should post women's comments in pink, and men's in blue.  That would make it simple!  Of course, someone will come on and accuse us of stereotyping...never mind. Juli,
  Sweetie-pie, I think Mack is a woman…easy mistake to make.  We should post women’s comments in pink, and men’s in blue.  That would make it simple!  Of course, someone will come on and accuse us of stereotyping…never mind.

]]> By: Juli http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8930 Juli Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:49:03 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8930 Mack and Scott - glad to see more MEN are commenting now! Much answered prayer... Mack and Scott – glad to see more MEN are commenting now! Much answered prayer…

]]> By: mack http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8922 mack Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:55:11 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8922 Dee, Thanks for the reminder that God loves us even with all our mixed motives.  Amen! Dee,
Thanks for the reminder that God loves us even with all our mixed motives.  Amen!

]]> By: Dee http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8823 Dee Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:51:29 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8823 Mack As I read all of these entries, I am impressed on how "perfect" everyone is in their motives. "We must never" base our passion on God due to our  gratitude. Thankfully, I have never had to be in such an environment that stresses such perfection. One of my favorite pastors (non SGM) once said, "Even on my best days, my motives are mixed." So, we strive to be perfect but can rest in the arms of a gracious Savior who will love our passion even it is based on gratitude.  May all on this site find the peace of God that passes all understanding. Blessings Mack
As I read all of these entries, I am impressed on how “perfect” everyone is in their motives. “We must never” base our passion on God due to our  gratitude. Thankfully, I have never had to be in such an environment that stresses such perfection. One of my favorite pastors (non SGM) once said, “Even on my best days, my motives are mixed.” So, we strive to be perfect but can rest in the arms of a gracious Savior who will love our passion even it is based on gratitude. 
May all on this site find the peace of God that passes all understanding.
Blessings

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8808 canary Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:27:53 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8808 Mack, Hi again!  Wow, some more good points.  I haven't read "Future Grace", yet.  Think I'll fly over to my nearest bookstore and grab a copy. As a wife, I would hate it if my husband only loved me out of gratitude.  I  believe the Lord wants us to love Him because of who He is, and because we can't get enough of His presence in our lives.  Mr. Piper makes a very helpful comparison. Mack,

Hi again!  Wow, some more good points.  I haven’t read “Future Grace”, yet.  Think I’ll fly over to my nearest bookstore and grab a copy.

As a wife, I would hate it if my husband only loved me out of gratitude.  I  believe the Lord wants us to love Him because of who He is, and because we can’t get enough of His presence in our lives.  Mr. Piper makes a very helpful comparison.

]]> By: Scott http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8801 Scott Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:57:04 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8801 Mack, It was our hope that SGM leadership would be willing to engage and seriously consider the issues we sent forward.  While they did comment on some of the issues, they were notably silent on any of the points relating to church governance or accountability.  See my comment of 2 Feb above. Mack,

It was our hope that SGM leadership would be willing to engage and seriously consider the issues we sent forward.  While they did comment on some of the issues, they were notably silent on any of the points relating to church governance or accountability.  See my comment of 2 Feb above.

]]> By: mack http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-8799 mack Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:15:57 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-8799 Regarding the "Get Well Plan" posted above, I think it's a great idea to have all the principles in this fiasco get together with a neutral third party.  Is there such a thing though.  Everyone seems to be connected to everyone else.  Kind of like 6 degrees to Kevin Bacon.  And of course, even if this were to happen, would the leadership in SGM be willing to submit to outside authority. 5yearsinSGM mentioned John Piper's book Future Grace, which I love.  Our SGM church was reading all of his books at one time (he even spoke at Celebration at least once).  We still sell his books in our bookstore.  He does state emphatically in one of his books (sorry, poor memory) that our passion for God should never be based on gratitude, even using the model of a husband loving his wife because he's grateful to her.  Who would want that? Regarding the “Get Well Plan” posted above, I think it’s a great idea to have all the principles in this fiasco get together with a neutral third party.  Is there such a thing though.  Everyone seems to be connected to everyone else.  Kind of like 6 degrees to Kevin Bacon.  And of course, even if this were to happen, would the leadership in SGM be willing to submit to outside authority.

5yearsinSGM mentioned John Piper’s book Future Grace, which I love.  Our SGM church was reading all of his books at one time (he even spoke at Celebration at least once).  We still sell his books in our bookstore.  He does state emphatically in one of his books (sorry, poor memory) that our passion for God should never be based on gratitude, even using the model of a husband loving his wife because he’s grateful to her.  Who would want that?

]]> By: watching closely http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-7088 watching closely Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:21:28 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-7088 Stunned, fellowship has been sweet as I've focused more on Him.  As I still need to be at my SGM church for now, this is what I will be focusing on. Thanks for the sweet encouragement. Stunned, fellowship has been sweet as I’ve focused more on Him.  As I still need to be at my SGM church for now, this is what I will be focusing on.

Thanks for the sweet encouragement.

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-7087 canary Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:17:15 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-7087 Aw, Stunned, what a beautiful way to put it! Aw, Stunned, what a beautiful way to put it!

]]> By: Stunned http://sgmrefuge.com/2009/01/28/a-get-well-plan-from-scott-and-connie/comment-page-5/#comment-7086 Stunned Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:42:27 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=218#comment-7086 watching closely, i could be wrong, but i'm guessing jesus misses that intimacy with you too.  i have a feeling he is standing there now, his arms stretched wide saying, come on home my baby, i love you so watching closely, i could be wrong, but i’m guessing jesus misses that intimacy with you too.  i have a feeling he is standing there now, his arms stretched wide saying, come on home my baby, i love you so

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