The following post is an email sent this morning by our friend “Esther”. She asked me to post a copy here. I think we all have something to learn from her wise words.
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Steve Shank, Dave Harvey, Gene Emerson, CJ Mahaney:
Thank you for writing back Steve. I do forgive you for adding to my trial, Steve, however, I believe the real issues are much more serious than you describe in your e-mail back to me below:
“Recently I received a document from VB that informed me an e mail response I sent to Keith also went to you. I was not even aware of this until I read about it in the document. (Thus the reason I have not tried to get back to you until now). Please know how very sorry I am for having contributed to your trial. I understand how it would have been offensive, and for that I am deeply sorry, and want to ask you to please forgive me. Since I now live in Phoenix AZ., my intention was to remove myself from a situation I did not have the details, and entrust it to those regionally who would be in better proximity to help.”
My appeals for help went out in many ways. I even spoke to your wife, Janis, when she was here for the ladies’ meeting in I believe it was September, and appealed to her as well as Joanna Breault. I never heard anything from that conversation with your wife. I then began to appeal for help from each of you on the Apostolic Team.
Even after each of you on the Apostolic Team received my cry for help with the very serious list of grievances I stated against the pastoral team of Sovereign Grace Church of Chesapeake, not one of you had the discernment as to how serious this situation really was. (I wish I could share a recorded message from my daughter’s cell phone from my husband cursing and threatening to harm us if I didn’t come bail him out of jail). If any of you wish to hear it, I will share it. None of you, including the pastors of Sovereign Grace Church of Chesapeake ever entered my pain to understand how the counsel I was receiving could really endanger my children and me.
I am certain that the Apostle Paul would have something to say to each of you if he were here today. Each one of you has named yourself an Apostle of God over the churches of Sovereign Grace Ministries. It is a very serious matter for an Apostle to take such a position over the souls of God’s people. Where is the “Fear of God?”
It is a serious matter for the individual Saints (members of the church) to not have their voices taken seriously. If you look in 1 Corinthians 1:11, the Apostle Paul had apparently received a report from members of the Church at Corinth. Apparently it even came from a woman (Chloe’s people), not the pastor of the church. Paul took these matters serious enough to entertain the details and then to follow up with a letter to the church (not just the pastor). Here is an excerpt from scripture: “For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.” 1 Corinthians 1:11. Paul took it very serious. We weren’t just quarreling here, my pastors were changing doctrine and applying pressure and the threat of church discipline to myself and other women in the church. I couldn’t get any of your attention on the Apostolic Team.
Dave Harvey, your email to me and I quote, “Just wanted to let you know that I have received and reviewed all of your documents. My counsel would be that you take the step Keith Beault requested and meet with him to hear his perspective and counsel. Meeting face to face is a much superior approach to swapping emails and I suspect Tim Lane and Paul Tripp would both strongly concur with that step.”
This response sounds somewhat uncaring as to the seriousness of the grievances that were being brought to your attention. It also sounds rather professional, unlike the heart of an Apostle who should be very concerned for my care and safety as the sheep in your care. It did not indicate any real belief that what I was bringing to you had any merit for serious concern. I had already been meeting face to face with the pastors and was not being heard. It wasn’t until I applied the pressure of making the Apostolic Team aware and the pastors at the Chesapeake Church aware that I had done so, as well as the many meetings face to face that the 3 couples were having both individually and eventually together that things began to change. That is very sad.
The Apostle Paul did not consider the communication by Chloe’s people as gossip nor slander. In fact, he took it very serious and apparently investigated and finally responded to the whole church directly in the form of a letter. This would be the equivalent of a letter, or an email today, or maybe a visit. The Apostle Paul had no problem keeping all things in the light before the entire church. There were no hidden meetings and private handling of matters that involved the Body of Christ. The accounts of church problems are published in scripture even to this day so that each of us is aware of the details. He obviously trusted the maturity of the Saints to handle the truth.
I do not believe my voice was taken serious by any of you on the Apostolic Team. I have huge concern for a movement whose Apostles are now “too far away” in another state, who feel that they should remove themselves from a situation that they do not have the details, and entrust it to those regionally who apparently also feel the same way, and then pass the individual back to the very ones who are offending them. There was no one to help. I felt all alone.
If it had not been for 3 couples who were willing to lay down their reputations, and my own father who is 78 years old and a very strong, wise, servant of God, who persisted in confronting to protect my children and me, I do not know what would be happening to me today. This is very serious.
My concern is for the “lack of discernment” and the “lack of soberness” that each of you on the Apostolic
Team are now exhibiting. Where is the “FEAR OF GOD?”
The Ministry of Apostles:
In 1 Corinthians 4:1-2: “This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found trustworthy.”
There is no process in place for individual members in the churches of Sovereign Grace Ministry to appeal for help from you. How do we get our voices heard? Is it really wise to put so much trust in men that you have placed in leadership and not believe individual members when they appeal to you for help?
In reality I am but one sheep who it may seem has very little affect on the entire Body of Sovereign Grace Ministries, but to God I am “the apple of His eye.” I wasn’t standing up for just myself for I knew that my trial represented something much bigger. There apparently has been “abusive counseling” going on in this movement for many years. Somehow, God’s people have not been heard by you. I believe God is addressing this from His throne. You all have the opportunity to listen, humble yourselves, and revisit your governmental structure. Is it safe for the future? What happens when each of you are dead?” Will the churches in your care really have the protection they need? Is there appropriate accountability in this movement now that you are so large and even extending to other countries? Will doctrine really be protected when there are no local eyes watching closely? Are pastoral teams really able to remain objective and truthful with themselves when it is themselves who are in sin? Will they really contact you and confess that problems are arising early on? Are young pastors really fully tested yet? Isn’t the wisdom of older men and pastors needed as a covering so that the young pastors do not have to learn the hard way at the expense of the sheep in their care? Should any pastor be trusted that he will never go off track? Do pastors on pastoral teams really feel the freedom to disagree with one another without fear of being removed and tagged rebellious, prideful, or not a team member?
Please know that my heart nor the hearts of these 3 couples who have been involved has never been divisive.
We are concerned for the sheep who have left the church with bleeding hearts. We are also concerned for the
future protection of the sheep. Do you not know that you will be held accountable for them?
Here in Chesapeake, Virginia, we were in real danger. Praise God, the pastors were stopped. But, the concern
still remains. We also are concerned that these men have disqualified themselves. The whole process we followed was done as much as possible with adherence to scripture. There were more than 3 witnesses who brought charges to you. Isn’t there a need for a time of testing for these men to prove themselves in their repentance and for them to restore the ability for the members to trust their leadership? This was not a light matter. It has been the practice of this movement to remove men in leadership for much less charges (lack of gifting, personal matters of children in their home who are out of control, etc.) Weren’t these men themselves out of control? How can this be a light matter and so easily dismissed as light sin? If you had involved yourselves earlier on, would you possibly see this differently had it been your own handling of the matter instead of us? Has this possibly clouded your view of how the matter needs to be handled now?
Maybe you should come to Virginia each of you and meet with me and some of the other women involved and hear the details. You might leave weeping. It was a horrible situation for me to endure personally. I have wept and wailed before God crying out to Him to defend me. He has done us. I hope that you understand my heart here. I love my church. I love the people. I love truth. I love my God.
I am praying for each of you that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of your hearts and enlighten you to see the truth and seriousness of what is being revealed. There are many matters coming into the light. Please take a long hard look at them.
The following letter was sent to the entire membership of SGCC at 6:06 PM on December 20 via email by the SGCC Financial Advisory Team. Here are a couple of excerpts:
“1. 1 Timothy 5: 19-21 provides instruction about the process to be used when bringing a charge against an elder/pastor. This involves an appeal to apostolic ministry for evaluation and correction as warranted, as opposed to an appeal directly to the congregation.”
OBSERVATION: Does this appear to be an accurate interpretation of scripture? Is there anywhere in scripture that supports that the apostolic ministry controls each individual church in such a way that the Church which as you taught us for many years is the People not the building, does not have any responsibility in judging cases? If the Apostolic Team doesn’t come and doesn’t address the problem, wouldn’t the “Church” have to take this responsibility to address it?
In fact, 1 Corinthians 6:1-5 states: “When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints?”
Note: Are the “Saints” actually the “Church” which as you taught us is the “people?”
“Or do you not know that the Saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers…”
Note: Is Paul saying that the Apostolic Team is going to come to each church to judge matters and cases? Is he encouraging the Saints, the Church to take this responsibility. I do believe the Elders (Pastors) and
Apostles play a very important role in overseeing these situations, but shouldn’t the Saints, the Church be involved and provide their wisdom too? Shouldn’t the Saints, the Church be involved when it is a case against an Elder, Pastor?
Note: Doesn’t the Word say that the Saints will judge angels not just the Apostolic Team which I do not see is actually mentioned in scripture? Also, aren’t the witnesses who are entertaining an accusation against an Elder, Pastor, most likely among the Saints or Church who are able to see closely? Won’t they need to have a proper method for bringing such accusations to someone requiring them to listen and to investigate? Do we have such a process in place in Sovereign Grace Ministries?
1 Timothy 5:19-21 it states:
“Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses (which we did have). As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear (Who are the rest – could it be the other Elders, Pastors as well as the “Church?” Is the word “all” here the “Church?” And are the words “so that the rest” possibly the other Elders, Pastors so that they will stand IN FEAR?
Note: This is so important because without it, The FEAR OF GOD is being diminished in our movement for both the Church, the Saints, as well as the Elders, Pastors. This in itself is a FEARFUL thing. For the “FEAR OF GOD” is the beginning of wisdom.”
Respectfully submitted,
“Esther”
I meant to click edit but it kept freezing
When I said agree to disagree I meant on the point of Gene calling the 2 couples the enemy.
Live Wire: Great question.
My opinion is that these counterfeit “apostles” have set up a counterfeit local body with counterfeit “Christian” ideals and counterfeit “Christian” doctrine using counterfeit wisdom and knowledge. What they call loving is truly hurtful. They add to and subtract from Holy Scripture. They say they do not shepherd, yet they do not let the Lord shepherd. Their list of counterfeit feats and ideals grows longer by the year. They claim they repent and yet make no change. They maim the hurt and exalt their own.
Above reproach? Hardly.
Worthy of reproach? Most definitely.
(I realize your question was about pastors – yet the pastors are minions of those in greater authority. Greater authority has hidden behind pastors and make pastors take the blame for edicts passed down from on high. The counterfeit “apostles” are well insulated from any consequences of their false edicts.)
canary said: “If men like Keith Jacobs and Chris Lutyk (from the Fairfax Church) were loving, kind pastors, yet asked to step down for their lack of “gifting” (I happened to know the Lutyks – I don’t believe the reason – impossible!), yet their churches had no such problems as are being discussed here, then why are pastors allowed to remain who have made such serious mistakes and shown their own lack of “gifting”? I am very troubled by this. Can anyone answer this question”
I have asked the same questions. It certainly seems like what the the pastors in the SGC did are more egregious then the other cases you cite. It sure is contradictory.
I also wonder about the 3 couples and Esther. Even with the pastors admitting their mistakes, I wonder what “hard feelings” will remain with the pastors if they don’t step down. If it is like the other cases cited, I imagine it won’t be that easy for them. Thus they probably will have to leave eventually due to feeling shunned or that it isn’t their home any longer.
BY said:
“It is also unconscionable to post letters addressed to 3rd parties without the express consent of the authors. Dismissing that concern with arguments like “a blog is a blog” isn’t much of a defense.”
Where did I defend the posting of the letters by saying “a blog is a blog” ?
I was stating the obvious in regards the diverse opinions of those who post here.
Steve240,
“Lack of Gifting” is rarely the reason for dismissal. There is almost always something else going on that they do not want to disclose. It has, for many years, been that catch all phrase that allows them to remove or reassign anyone for any reason (e.g. Larry was not gifted to lead PDI). The problem with all these people who have been dismissed for lack of gifting is that they were originally installed because of their gifting. I was told by my pastor that I had a “rare gift of developing leadership in others” and then when I fell out of favor that I was “not gifted or called to be a leader”. When I challenged how that can be since God grants irrevocable gifting and calling, they admitted that they sometimes get it wrong and that gifting is ultimately determined by “fruit”. Beyond the obvious problems of circular reasoning, that doctrine makes them, not God, the ultimate arbiters of what constitutes gifting and fruit. In the end the pastor who removed me admitted that he reacted out of insecurity to some comments I made as a CG leader, and they agreed to remove the “not a leader” label from me.
There seem to be a few SGMers posting that are not impressed with the comments, and seem to be surprised at the amount of suspicion on the part of those of us who have left that the repentance of these pastors is genuine or if it will effect real change. I agree with whoever mentioned that this is because the problem is NOT these pastors or this particular church. The problems are coming from the top down and these are the men that need to set about making some major changes in doctrine and application.
Things will change in SGM because God will have his way. I personally do not have any bitterness or grudges toward SGM (though I did earlier on, which is to be expected from anyone here who is in the beginning stages, and why people like FF are much more free since she left much longer ago and has worked through many issues). There are only 2 choices when facing the fact that God is doing something in SGM: respond in pride or respond in humility.
I don’t agree with everyone that if the pastors truly repented that they necessarily need to step down, in fact, if every pastor in SGM did this how many pastors would be left? I think widescale true repentance that comes with major revelation by the Holy Spirit and public confession beginning with C.J., Harvey, etc… on down could totally transform SGM and breath wonderful new life into these churches. Or they can persist in pride and cover-up of sin, pointing accusatory fingers at the weak and wounded individuals and the ship will sink, maybe slowly, but it will sink while many people dance to pretty music in utter denial of reality. If the latter happens (and I pray not) then the lifeboats stand ready for those who wish to abandon ship and head for sunny shores.
The condemnation that some of SGMers feel when you enter into discussion here and elsewhere is probably real to a degree. I don’t think it’s right, but in light of the condemnation you so aptly dish out I think you should expect it. It is SGM’s way, and many here have not totally left all SGM ways behind, we are still influenced in varying degrees by having been immersed in SGM doctrine and culture for so long. Condemnation is not for you or any of us to wield. If God has pronounce that he will not condemn us, then we should not condemn and judge one another. James makes this clear that when we pick up the law to judge our brother we end up condemning ourselves (think Jesus’ words by the same measure you use it will be measured back to you), and then the freeing and hope filled words that follow: Mercy triumphs over judgement!!!
It is possible to bring truth to light , to call for justice for the oppressed, to address serious matters of sin in our brothers without a spirit of accusation and condemnation. Will be do this perfectly? Probably not, but I think there are several on here including Jim and Carole who are doing very well with this and are very humble to acknowledge when they get it wrong. As for any who may lean toward condemning tones, I know God is faithful and will gently and lovingly restore their souls and bind up their broken hearts, he will shower mercy and grace until all the bitterness is washed away and the life of Jesus flows out freely again. This goes for all of us, SGMers and exers.
For those of us who have left, maybe it would be good to read the comments remembering that not so long ago we were in the same boat, speaking the same words (in our own way) and would have responded probably in similar ways as one or another. I read some of the comments and while I reject all condemnation and judgement, guilt, fear and shame, I easily see that a few years back I could have been on here saying the same things, finding it utterly impossible to believe any charges against my beloved leaders.
I also just want to say that I recognize at times my own tone has been harsh or sarcastic, I am a black and white kind of person. I won’t tone down the truth, but I will try to make more of an effort to make my love more evident in my words.
Forgiveness, reconciliation, bitterness, repentance. I hear a lot of these terms being used throughout these posts. I also hear references to “knowing their hearts”, intents, and motives. Something that seems to get lost in these murky waters, and perhaps continues to fuel those of us who desire to see God’s glory made known through our lives and all of life’s circumstances is the idea of consequences.
I for one have full confidence and faith that God is moving in the hearts and lives of all He has called unto himself. For those within SGM, and those beyond, God is using all things to work together for the good. I truly believe that these things coming to light is a blessing for people on either side of these offenses. Do I believe these pastor’s are taking their heart’s to task, earnestly desiring to humble themselves before God and man, YES! Do I believe that we all stumble and fall and that it is God’s lavish grace and kindness that leads us to repentance? YES! Can I know the hearts or motives of these men, either now or when they were exercising their authority through counsel or any other aspect of their role as leaders? Absolutely not! There are questions like these and others, that if we are acting in accordance with our confession of faith, we must answer in light of the truth of God’s word.
As a firefighter/paramedic, there is a “cardinal rule”, or a governing philosophy that trumps all others. It is simply “to do no harm”. When I am called upon to render services to people requiring or requesting assistance, and through my actions or interventions “do harm” to them, I am accountable. Whether the harm is due to acts of ccommission or omission, regardless of my intent or motive, I am held responsible and accountable to those actions.
While I can think of no single specific scripture that speaks to this (maybe some of you can help me), the scriptures which speak of being above reproach (1 Tim) and blameless (Titus) do weigh in and inform us here. The privilege of aspiring to be an overseer is indeed a noble one! Obviously, this comes with the awareness and caution that not many of us should presume to be teachers, because those who teach (handling God’s word) will be judged more strictly. Let’ not forget, these leaders are stewards, given gifts to serve/feed/care for/equip God’s people, his bride. So, with that charge, “do no harm” definitely applies. Herein, in my humble opinion, is part of all this that needs addressed. Has harm been done? Unquestionably, undeniably, yes! Not just here with Esther, but in many instances, in various locations across SGM (a fraction of the full measure of those represented on these blogs). No matter the intent or motivation (pure, wrought with sin, or plain ignorance), these leaders have done harm, the effects of which are not easily measurable.
This harm is what the men involved here at SGCC, and those who have perpetrated harmful practices across SGM, must give an account. There should be an expectation of all those hurt or offended or wronged, what they can identify as “fruit in keeping with repentance”. In other words, discernible, measurable, definitive consequences.
Steve240,
Thanks for responding to my question. There seems to be no answer, right? I’ll just have to scratch my head and wonder…
As far as Esther and the three couples…being called enemies of the church doesn’t bode well for the meeting on the 25th. We will have to wait and see. Who knows, maybe everyone there will end up crying and repenting and hugging. Wouldn’t that be great? Though not the norm. The norm will be to get everyone into a uniform mindset (that is, what the Pastors want them to think), including the dissenters, who will have to drop their case and fall in line, or get ousted eventually. I believe, based on past behavior by SGM, that there will be some sort of church discipline. Personally, I’m hoping for the hugging and crying. Is there any reason to expect a different outcome than the usual “my way or the highway” routine? Gosh, I hope so.
Doug, you are really eloquent! A friend of yours, Doug, and a new friend of ours was counseling me today about all this. We were talking about the “how.” Say these men see their error and want to repent. How does one go about turning such a large ship as this and pointing it back in the right direction? Repentance is great, but then what? His idea was to have CJ go to someone else, someone outside the denomination. To seek out someone like Terry Virgo, a trusted friend who is not a part of SGM. When you have been involved in deception (let’s face it, the enemy gained a stronghold here), you may need some outside eyes to help you restructure.
I’m going to be praying for clarity and also for a way out for everyone. God is creative. I know He can do this! In fact, what my friends have done reminds me so much of Martin Luther pinning his theses on the Whittenburg door. Reformation IS possible.
Terry Virgo wants no part of this. The “Christian Statesmen” of our day are silent.
This only emboldens CJ and company, who feel that this place has no Biblical reason to exist, since nothing that happens within SGM is any of my business.
I guess I have a different view of the Body.
We can’t look to national leaders for help. We must act on our own, by God’s grace.
canary
Well Greg left a good explanation of how SGM uses “lack of gifting” for something else they really don’t want to say. It certainly does appear that these men at SGC showed more of a “lack of gifting” in a number of areas than a lot of other pastors. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Also, it was sad to read your story of what happened to you and your husband. It is sad that that this is such repeating pattern within SGM. Unfortunately the leadership doesn’t do well with even honest questioning. I really wonder how they can serve with a clear conscience when they do these sort of things? Maybe they think the end justifies the means?
One more comment to follow on my previous post and to speak to a comment FF made saying “Reformation IS possible.”
Yes! Reformation is not only possible, it is God’s heart. Opening the eyes to the blind, healing the sick, breaking strongholds, setting captives free, the ministry of reconciliation, preparing for Himself a pure, spotless, bride! God is at work here. This is not about he said/we said, or we’re right and they’re wrong. Each of us would do well to pray fervently for His perspective (His kingdom come, his will be done on earth as it is in heaven).
That being said, leaders of SGCC and all across SGM’s, from the leadership teams all the way down, I implore you! Consider what is coming to light. These blogs are filled with your brothers and sisters in Christ who have spent years laboring with you for the sake of the gospel. Godly, mature, passionate, people eager to run hard after God, who desire to see communities transformed through the gospel expressed and lived out in local church’s, are stumbling and falling, left battered and bleeding as a direct result of some of the practices common to SGM.
Reformation here, within SGM? Only if there are eyes to see, and ears to hear, and hearts that understand, and then, they would turn, and the Lord will heal. That turning will be easily discernible to those who have the mind of Christ. You won’t have to squint your eyes, or have to sift through the all too common cliche’s or “SGM-isms”. The old “you’re not believing the best” will be absent because the best will be obvious and believable. This is the tenor of what should be hoped for.
Please join with me in lifting up our brothers and sisters at SGCC, all across SGM, and for each of us who share these experiences, for the flood gates of God’s grace to open and rain down on each of us.
Steve240,
The “end” they are seeking is uniformity, no division, no mess that would spread through their organization. I believe that is the goal because I have seen it happening. People’s ideas, hearts, feelings, thoughts are not as important as keeping all the members on one page, the page that the leaders insist on. Any deviation causes them to over react, to silence dissent, while appearing to their supporters as being humble and wise. Look how quickly the Ches leaders called a meeting when they thought the three were going to send out an email. Apparently, these leaders jumped the gun, and went behind the couples’ backs to keep the mess from spreading. To not even notify the couples about the meeting was pure cowardice, and a fast attempt to put a finger in the dike. This is very bad form.
I still think church discipline will be the end result, as the leaders pull together to stabalize their church. There is simply too much for them to loose otherwise. Calous? Yes, I guess. We’ve all seen it before. That is why we are here. Could it be possible that this meeting on the 25th will be different? Again, I hope I’m wrong, because it would be wonderful to see the Holy Spirit bring unity.