Comments on: Sovereign Grace Church of Chesapeake

By: Waters

Waters — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:34:09 +0000

StvMac,

You share troubling reports which indicate the minority of SGM churches are informing their congregants of this stake-in-the-ground process with AoR. And yet, not surprising.

Always, I am grieved to watch the citizens of SGM dwell in the land of Nod — Oblivious, or asleep, or choosing to ignore every opportunity to become engaged in fighting the good fight of the faith.— More oil being drained from their lamps —
And so, StvMac, we on Refuge and Survivors are a means of “Shouting from the rooftop”
on behalf of warning our brothers and sisters, and exposing the deeds of darkness.

Was reading some excerpts from Martin Luther, writing on “The Church”:
“Remember well that the sheep (that would be we Blood bought, standing in the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, with the mind of Christ, and the dunamis power of the indwelling Holy Spirit) have to pass judgement upon that which is placed before them.
They should say: ‘We have Christ as our Lord and prefer His Word to the words of any man or to those of the angels of darkness.’”

The assaults on the Body of Christ have been going on for centuries — the enemy packages deceptions attractively for every generation. The ‘Dearest Place on Earth’ ruled by those who authoritatively ‘stand in the very stead of God’ — and leave a wake of mauled and wounded Saints in the fields….. is being judged by the Shepherd and His sheep.

By: StvMac

StvMac — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:07:38 +0000

Waters,

I would hope that your assumption is correct, but I wouldn’t count on it. I have spoken with a number of friends from KWCC and they were not aware of the AoR meetings. I still get the newsletter email and there has been no mention. If they were serious about getting all of the input they could get this would have been shouted from the rooftops. I checked the blogs of a handful of SGM churches (somewhat randomly) and found no mention.

By: The Quizzler

The Quizzler — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:11:33 +0000

Waters........... You mean this letter? Very interesting. N.S.L.B.

By: Waters

Waters — Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:19:23 +0000

Chesapeake,

I assume you have been informed of the Ambassadors of Reconciliation meetings
in Gaithersburg as they are gathering witnesses of SGM abusive tactics. Also, they seek to bring a “Biblical judgement” in regards to the CJ Mahaney versus Josh Harris/CLC stalemate. (even though CJ and the Board have declared him as fit for ministry BEFORE the A of R comes to their conclusions!)

Please read on BrentDetweiler.com a moving letter written by Bruce Farley. Those of you who have been there more than 10-12 years will remember him.
Bruce copied his letter to EH and BW.

Unless the Lord builds the house,
Those who build it labor in vain — PS 127:1

By: Freedom Fighter

Freedom Fighter — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:35:28 +0000

Hurt and Forgotten, I was hurt and forgotten, too. By many of the same people, I imagine. Your eyes have been opened, but try to remember that theirs have not. They don’t realize what they’re doing. They can’t see it. I’ve spoken to several of my old friends from the past and they are all so very sorry they ostracized me after I left. It was completely unintentional. That church keeps you very busy and occupied within the congregation. There isn’t room for anyone else. It has taken 12 or so years for me to get to this place of peace, but we are all in loving fellowship with one another now. Not terribly close since I live very far away from them, but reconciled nonetheless. I want you to know you are loved and understood by everyone here and that we all feel your pain alongside you. But also that the Lord will not leave your comfortless. There are several really great churches in close proximity to the one you left. Many of the “missing generation” can be found at New Life Providence on Indian River Rd. I found loving arms at the Chesapeake Vineyard. God bless you!

By: Defended

Defended — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:48:06 +0000

God bless you dear Sister, you may be (understandably) Hurt but you are NOT Forgotten by our Precious Savior!
You are a sweet child of God, co-heirs with Christ and seated with Him in Heavenly Places!
how great is that?!

By: Free at last

Free at last — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:59:15 +0000

Hurt and Forgotten wrote:
“I looked around and noticed that an entire generation from the church was missing.”

Up here in Richmond, if you were to attend KingsWay, you would notice the same thing. I am happy to say that I am part of that missing generation that is in the process of forming a new church. But I agree with you, people at SGM churches are cliquish and can be brutal if you leave their little family.

I hope you find true friends.

By: Gracie

Gracie — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 03:01:15 +0000

Hurt and Forgotten, You are right, a caring Christian brother or sister would have reached out to you. Not delete you and turn their backs. Praying the Lord will comfort your heart and heal that wound.

By: Connie of the "3 couples"

Connie of the "3 couples" — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 02:43:37 +0000

Hurt and Forgotten, I am so sorry for your hurt and pain but know that Jesus will heal your broken heart. I would be happy to talk with you as I used to be a member of the same church. If you would like to contact me, Jim here on the refuge can give you my email address.

By: Hurt and Forgotten

Hurt and Forgotten — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 01:51:33 +0000

I attended Sovereign Grace Church in Chesapeake for several months and during that time made many great friends. I even began attending the new members class. Then, someone pointed me to this site. The words and stories on here opened up my eyes and I saw everything they were talking about. I went back to the church once more to see it with open eyes and I knew God was calling me away from the cult-like place. We sang Blessed Be Your Name that morning and I cried all the way through it. The friends I made were all great people, but they were sunk in too deep to the church. The pastoral staff and leaders were corrupt. I looked around and noticed that an entire generation from the church was missing. There were the families who had been there well before the large conflict mentioned on this site and there were new people. When I left, I couldn’t announce to people why I was leaving because of their commitment so I only told those who asked. I made around 30 good friends and I thought half of them to be close friends. Only five people asked me why I left. Only five. Now, only one still talks to me. I had decided not to post until I noticed something tonight. I noticed that two brothers who I was close with deleted me off Facebook. The one I invited into my home, gave him a birthday present, and I always greeted them both with hugs and really cared for them. They never asked why I left. Now I realize they were never my friends. They stabbed me in the back. As my Christian brothers they should have reached out to me to make sure I was ok and they never did, neither did most of the others. Once you leave Sovereign Grace you will be forgotten about. When I left the church, it was very hard for me. Now I see that I made the right decision and that these survivor sites are entirely true. For a place that is supposed to be a House of God and full of Christians, they are so damaging and ungodly. A place were you enter vulnerable, you leave broken. What kind of church is that? It isn’t.

By: RT

RT — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 21:23:25 +0000

Cory–thanks so very much for your patient and gracious tone. Your openness and temperance are an encouragement to me and, I suspect, to others.

By: Ellie

Ellie — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 17:43:39 +0000

So…Cory…your wife has been reading this blog? Really? So she has read all your posts here and knows you’ve been a pastor-in-training (basically) for the last 10 years?

By: Freedom Fighter

Freedom Fighter — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 12:01:41 +0000

Hi Cory, thanks for coming back and I’m so sorry to hear your sad news. I will pray for the family.

I wanted to comment on what you said about seminary. I went to seminary — got an MA in Theology. Many of my classes were pastoral, or at least many of the classes offered. I wasn’t planning on becoming a pastor. They offered coursework in pastoral counseling, culminating in practicums at local facilities, the military, and churches. Internships were available after the academic courses were completed. I think, having read the stories here, that “official” seminary would greatly benefit future SGM pastors. They are, it seems, coming out of Pastor’s College ill prepared from a theological standpoint to serve their congregations. I took classes in biblical languages, methodical Bible study, and unity of the Bible. They really forced me to think of the word of God as a whole, inspired work and I think that was part of the reason I recognized that something was not quite right when we left SGM.

I also don’t think CJ is behaving the way he is on purpose. We all bring certain biases to the table based on our own experiences in life. It’s the whole nature vs nurture debate. Within his nature and background is a certain amount of Catholicism. Maybe he believes more in training Christians to be holy than the average reformed pastor might whose background was Presbyterian? Just a guess. It’s a work of the Spirit that any of us are holy, ever. But there’s always that desire to “work on our sin areas.” Add in a small “care” group’s help with those sin areas, and you have a really obsessive attitude toward sin.

From there, the adversary can twist and distort and voila, we see stories like you’ve read here. That’s why, I think, we need to be vigilant about the Word and about the words of our Lord within the Gospel. In Revelation, there’s a scripture that says “Let no one take your crown.” Having walked with the Lord for several decades now, through the Jesus movement, the prosperity doctrine movement (even went to a couple of services at Bob Tilton’s church in Dallas), and the postmodern “relevant” churches of today, I can see so many distortions of the Gospel weaving their blackness through time. It’s not pretty! And we walk a fine line here at the blogs trying to expose the darkness and still love the church itself (okay, some of us don’t love it, but we do still love the individual people we met there).

Despite all we’ve been through, I hope everyone will remember to let no one take their crown. It’s a crown of glory, proffered by a loving God who, yes, sometimes trains us through adversity, but is never the direct author of it. It’s been tempting for me — after being abused verbally by a couple of Christians, one of them Anglican and one Charismatic — to believe our Lord, by allowing us to go through the mire and be hurt, was in favor of us going through what we did. But that is not in the character of God or the New Testament. What we do see is increased persecution as the hour is late. Increased wickedness. The biggest hurdle for me with SGM’s form of Reformed (not accurate according to RT) is that idea that God must WANT us to suffer. It’s a fact that we will, but He is not doing it Himself. Does that make sense? I guess I’m still working through it. And very imperfectly.

By: Cory

Cory — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:21:48 +0000

Hello. Sorry that it has taken me so long to get back here and answer questions. We (my family and I) have had a bit of a rough week. My son’s teacher’s 17 month old son passed away, we are close with the family.

Stunned-
You’re not “nailing” me. I’ll answer anything, so you don’t have to worry about thinking you’re “nailing” me.

During my time at SGM nothing was discussed as in regards to the discipline of children and all that. We trained as Pastors, but mostly from a preaching the Word standpoint. Hope that makes sense.

RT-
I took seminary classes and am currently taking more seminary classes. In May I will graduate with a MDiv. I didn’t attend Seminary traditionally because Seminary teaches theologians not Pastors. Pastors teach and train Pastors. So, I decided I was going to go the route of being trained by several Pastors and maybe at some point take some seminary classes, which I’m doing now. Hope that makes sense.

As for the “say it one time and the next spank them” it has been stated several times on this blog hence why I put it that way.

I’m sorry that my terminology seems odd, that’s just I talk I guess. I’m not a Pastor of several decades, I’m only three decades old.

Ellie-
I answered you on Survivors, but I will answer you here too just in case.

My wife and I were not together during my time at SGM, so she wasn’t around CJ during that time. She has met CJ and has been around him several times, but only at conferences. So, what she thinks of CJ would be far different than your’s or anybody elses. As for the attitude towards women and how children were to act, she doesn’t have any idea about it and hasn’t been around SGM at all. She has however read on this blog and on Survivors, so she is aware of all of you and is praying for you all daily.

By: Ellie

Ellie — Mon, 21 Mar 2011 03:52:32 +0000

RT, I’m still waiting on Cory to answer my question from Survivors:
March 17th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
So, Cory…what does your wife think of CJ? (I assume she met him while you were interning.) What did she think of the SGM attitude towards women and how children were to act?
Have you read Esther’s story? (This happened at Chesapeake, but this attitude concerning women was widespread at SGM.)

By: RT

RT — Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:22:32 +0000

Ellie–that’s because you one smart lady, methinks.

Thanks for the response, Cory. It’s unusual for a pastor not to attend seminary (I mean pastors outside of SGM.) I’d love to hear your reasons for not pursuing a more traditional education. I have to say I find your terminology odd–you just don’t sound like a pastor of several decades. ”What I have learned from reading all of the posts is that SGM believes in one time saying next time spanking and they call themselves “Reformed”, so I was stating that I am not of the SGM “Reformed Theology” variety.”
I’ve never heard the expression “one time saying next time spanking,” in fact I had to read it several times before I figured out that it must be some sort of SGM-speak. I’ve not read it here on the blogs…

I completely accept your explanation, but I’d expect a pastor to have a more comprehensive hold on reformed theology…

Thanks again, Cory, for sticking in here and answering questions. I’m glad you’re here.

By: Ellie

Ellie — Sun, 20 Mar 2011 01:07:18 +0000

:::::not saying a word::::

By: Freedom Fighter

Freedom Fighter — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 23:53:09 +0000

You know, as I ponder all this, a couple of thoughts come to mind. One, the women of the church did a large part of the disciplining when I went there, so maybe the men didn’t get as much of the spanking stuff drilled into them. Two, and this is a grand generalization for sure, when someone messes up at their job, it’s embarrassing, scary, and dangerous to their livelihood to have to own it. I’m sure that by the time CJ heard of whatever shenanigans were going on they had been firmly sugarcoated by those involved. He may not, until these blogs appeared, have heard the actual facts straight from the people who were harmed. It doesn’t excuse his silence now — although it would/will be a difficult thing for him to openly repent of leading an entire denomination toward heavyhandedness and away from the grace he so espouses. I don’t know him at all and have never heard him preach, so I can’t judge, but I know he sits at the helm of a large corporation that he doesn’t want to go belly up. He’s probably feeling like slow incremental changes will fix things and allow him to save face and keep the wheels rolling. I don’t see that as the most noble way to handle all that’s been exposed, but I’ve never run a large corporation either. He’s probably frightened, too. Thus the joke about being persecuted.

I’m just ruminating on it all. I don’t know if any of this will make sense to anyone else! We’re all such broken vessels that I hate seeing people so hurt and I also hate seeing those who jump to the defense of their beloved church feeling hurt. I will not relent in my request for the Lord to break through to the hardhearted and bring reconciliation through repentance and forgiveness. I realize some of these stories are so incredibly sad that that’s more than likely never going to be possible.

By: Stunned

Stunned — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 21:52:24 +0000

Hey Cory, not trying to “nail” you here, Bud. For the most part I like what you say, but from time to time you say something that doesn’t seem to compute for me so if you don’t mind, I like to ask about it.

You said, “What I have learned from reading all of the posts is that SGM believes in one time saying next time spanking.”

This kinda shocked me. You spent 3 or 4 years being mentored by CJ Mahaney yet you didn’t know this from your time with him? I mean, this, one time telling, next time spanking is kinda big there. As in BIG. How did you not learn that in all those years working at SGM?

By: Cory

Cory — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:30:15 +0000

RT-
I DON’T associate Reformed Theology to abusing children. What I have learned from reading all of the posts is that SGM believes in one time saying next time spanking and they call themselves “Reformed”, so I was stating that I am not of the SGM “Reformed Theology” variety.