I know, I know… it’s been awhile since I’ve posted here. Life has been hectic, at best, as I’m sure it has been for everyone, it being the Christmas season and all, and our regular, daily lives still go on.
I have been reading over at SGMSurvivors.com (if you haven’t checked out that site, now is a good time to do so!) and I’ve, once again, been struck by SGM’s lack of care and accountability toward their members. Kris posted an email from someone in the San Diego church, where it was just announced that the sr. pastor would be stepping down into the associate pastor’s role, and the associate pastor would be stepping into the sr. pastor role. (You can read the post here.)
Apparently, “secret meetings” had been taking place for a year and a half (!) at this particular SGM church in San Diego, to evaluate the gifting of the sr. pastor without the knowledge of the membership. A YEAR AND A HALF! Without the membership being made aware that this process of evaluation was even going on. And it seems that the fact of the “secret meetings” being kept secret is a source of pride and great accomplishment to the leaders, Steve Shank in this case, him being the one to make that statement at the family meeting. (I wasn’t there, I haven’t heard the tape of the meeting… if there is one. If there is, I would love to hear it!)
I don’t know Mark Lauterbach, have never heard him speak, don’t know anything about his effect on the San Diego church, nor do I have any knowledge of his giftings and character… for all I know, Steve’s observations are all true and this change is what is best for that church. But this post is not about the shake up in San Diego. It’s about the why’s and how’s SGM conducts itself in these situations.
I am absolutely amazed at the arrogance of those in leadership. To not share this information with the members of that church, those whose lives will be affected by this decision, is the epitome of pride and arrogance. Do they think that the membership doesn’t have the right to know what’s going on? Can they not be trusted with this knowledge, to pray and seek God’s wisdom on behalf of this church they love so much and have poured their lives out for?
The disregard shown for the membership, who, by the way, are the ones who support and maintain this church, through their giving of monies and their service and commitment to God and their church is just out and out wrong, in my opinion. To not include them in this process is unbelievable. I mean, did Steve Shank or any of the other SGM leaders involved in this secrecy ask any of the members, anyone who rubs shoulders with Mark Lauterbach (the sr. pastor being evaluated) on a day to day basis, what their opinion of him is? Or solicit observations from them?
Why does SGM conduct themselves in this way? What gives SGM leadership the authority to make these types of decisions without seeking out those people, the faithful members, who will be affected the most by this decision? Is there a reason, a biblical precedent, that gives them this power over the “little people”? Or is it simply that the “regular folks” can’t be trusted with this type of decision? Are the members not mature enough to be included in this process? Are they really that stupid and immature, and have zero discernment when it comes to these decisions?
It seems to me that those who interact with their pastors on a daily or weekly basis would be better qualified to determine gifting, character and sin issues than some big wig leader who carries authority from the Vatican, who might interact with that pastor intermittently. That is, IF (and that’s a VERY BIG “IF”) SGM leadership thought more highly of it’s membership, and didn’t think so highly of themselves. But, as we’ve seen time and time again, SGM leaders don’t have a very high opinion of “regular folks”, and therefore, couldn’t possibly ask for their unqualified opinions.
To disregard the opinions of a dedicated, God-honoring group of people in such a blatant way, and to even brag about the fact that “secret meetings had been taking place for a year and a half without the member’s knowledge” reeks of arrogance, pride, lack of accountability, and a complete lack of that humility that they are all so proud to include when describing themselves.
To think that only a few men within SGM can make these decisions, that somehow they are on a higher level than us ordinary Christians, and can therefore hear God clearer than us, that He speaks to them much more and about much more in depth things than us regular joe’s and jane’s, is pretty amazing when you think about it. Do they think they are never wrong, that they don’t make mistakes, that their hearts don’t deceive them? That they are not tainted by their own humanness and sin? Or have they arrived on that plane where their thoughts and actions are motivated by a completely pure heart and their motives are above reproach, and they don’t need any input from those who are there, who are involved and living their lives within that church?
I understand that there needs to be leaders, that decisions have to be made. I’m all for that. I’m not advocating a “no one in charge, free for all” type of environment. That would be silly and it wouldn’t work. I’m just saying that including the members of churches, garnering their opinions, being up front and honest with them instead of all the secrecy, asking them to be a part of this process, would be the better choice.
What do you think? Should the members have been brought into this process from the very beginning? What do you think about the secrecy involved? What about the way the leaders conducted themselves during this process, how it all went down?
I’m not saying my opinion is right or wrong… it’s just my opinion. And I would love to hear yours. 
December 12th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Acts 15:22 – Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers…..
December 12th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
“So the Twelve apostles convened the multitude of disciples and said, It is not seemly or desirable that we should have to give up preaching the Word of God in order to attend to serving at tables and superintending the distribution of food. Therefore select out from among ourselves, brethren, seven men of good and attested character and repute, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may assign to look after this duty…And the suggestion pleased the whole assembly, and they selected Stephen, a man full of faith and full of the Holy Spirit…” Acts 6:2,3,5, Amplified
December 12th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Hey Carole!
You can listen to the meeting on the church’s website: http://www.gracechurchsd.org. It says you can download it too, but only the first 2 min. downloaded for me, but it seemed like you could opt to listen to the whole thing, and it worked fine. The letter to the members is posted there too.
Dorothy
December 12th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Thanks, Dorothy! I’ll check it out…
December 13th, 2008 at 2:20 am
Carole
One certainly would think Steve Shank and whoever else was involved in this decision would have at least contacted the care group leaders or at least some of the care group leaders to get their input on this. You say it well that leadership need to realize that the members are who bring in the support that they need to exist. Why they don’t seem to realize this makes one wonder.
December 13th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Steve,
I know that this issue of SGM leadership’s misplaced ideas of their authority has been talked about over and over again… here at The Refuge and at Survivors. But every time I hear of another situation like this, where a leader steps into a situation and completely ignores the insight of those who know “the evaluee” best still causes me to stop and shake my head in utter amazement.
It just continues to completely bewilder me that these leaders think they have all wisdom and all knowledge. How anyone can possibly think they can accurately evaluate someone’s gifting, calling and character, when they don’t have a close relationship with them boggles my mind. These guys don’t see each other on a regular basis, and when they do interact, I bet they are all on their best behavior!
I’m certainly not trying to diminish any God-given discernment they may have… but you would think they would exhaust any and all avenues at their disposal, including asking questions of, and garnering the opinions of those closest to the pastor under evaluation. At least, a truly humble man would… he wouldn’t rely on his own (deceitful) heart to make a life-changing decision. Would he???
Who knows? They may just glean some information that might be helpful in the process. I mean, before you make a decision that not only affects this man’s life, his family’s life, and the whole church’s life, why not talk to those who know him best, who see him on a regular basis, who observe him in situations that these leaders don’t have the opportunity to see? It might not change their minds, but at least they’ve sought out potentially helpful input.
Maybe they aren’t as humble as they think they are…
December 13th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Carole,
I bought into the whole authority thing at SGM. But, now I think that is a very bad idea. I think the decision should have been brought to the whole church.
I just think it leaves too much authority in a few people, to give them the right to go into a church in a totally different state and just give someone the boot. It leaves an environment where all pastors had better say “yes sir” and do whatever they are told in their churches or that will happen to them next. So some pastor in California or whatever state, better do everything a leader in Maryland says or you are out the door.
We are the church – why couldn’t the family meeting include all the family business? The church members are not children where scary information needs to be kept hidden. If you thinking of giving the pastor the boot why not call a real family meeting and let the members decide.
They couldn’t involve anyone else because the entire SGM organism needs to be under control.
There is no such thing as a local church in SGM.
Those out there thinking of joining this family of churches better know that their pastor will no longer be in charge of overseeing their church. Their pastor is now an older sibling and the people in Maryland are the big daddy that makes all the decisions.
I love my pastor and it would break my heart to see someone from another state come in and kick him out - no matter how they sugar coat these stories that is what is happening.
Where is the backbone in all the other pastors in SGM churches that see this going one over and over again? Why don’t they all get together and tell SGM enough with the control. I think they are all sitting back in their recliners saying, “Thank God that wasn’t me”, well they should get up - because next time it might just be them. Someone more gifted will come and say you are out. It will have nothing to do with how much you love and care for the flock…or how much they love and care for you. It will be for some reason you don’t know and won’t understand….
December 13th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Hi Butterfly!
You said: Where is the backbone in all the other pastors in SGM churches that see this going one over and over again? Why don’t they all get together and tell SGM enough with the control. I think they are all sitting back in their recliners saying, “Thank God that wasn’t me”, will they should get up - because next time it might just be them. Someone more gifted will come and say you are out. It will have nothing to do with how much you love and care for the flock…or how much they love and care for you. It will be for some reason you don’t know and won’t understand….
I think it’s all about job security… these guys have it good! Where else can you get a job making that kind of money without working a 40 hour week and get five weeks vacation a year and many other benefits… all for just speaking for 40 minutes on a Sunday morning? As long as they are “yes men”, they think what has happened to other pastors won’t happen to them. What they don’t see is that their job isn’t as secure as they think… one slip up and the evaluation process begins.
It seems that when you become an SGM pastor, or you step into leadership of any type in an SGM church, you become a “yes man.” I was right there in our SGM church. Jim and I were two of the best cheerleaders and proponents of our pastor and his decisions. (Not something I’m proud of, by the way.) It wasn’t until Jim started working at the church, seeing decisions being made that were, frankly, not well thought out, some even selfish, that our eyes started opening. And when Jim started confronting the pastor and the pastoral intern… well, that’s when the proberbial “poop” hit the fan, the lies from the pastor started coming fast and furious, and that was the beginning of the end for us in that church.
All I can say is I hope they all have a back up plan…
December 13th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Hi Carole!
I agree that the crux of the problem is the authority structure. Kris made a short statement that sums up my biggest beef with PDI (other than the lack of grace). There is an overemphasis on submission to pastoral authority (and “apostolic” authority) that trumps and subverts another very Biblical concept – the priesthood of the believer. I would include an overemphasis on the scope of pastoral and apostolic authority. The more I think about it, I believe the SGM folks are absolutely convinced that their model is THE Biblical one, THE Truth of God’s Word, handed down and taught to them from their gifted “apostles”. As a result, they fiercely guard and defend it. Maybe they feel it is righteous indignation and passion for the Lord that they are expressing in their corrections and displeasure. Several recent proSGM commenters’ posts on survivor attest to the fact that they adhere strictly to SGM’s interpretations of what is “Biblical”, even if historically there has been room within Christianity for differing interpretations of certain passages or differing ways of implementing Biblical mandates.
So, when someone disagrees, it does not go well. Let me emphasize again for any proSGM readers- I’m not talking about the historically accepted Biblical principles that are the foundation of our faith, but about issues that the Bible addresses yet leaves some latitude for interpretation or implementation, or even on issues that are not directly addressed within God’s Word. In our experiences, SGM has not had a record in the past (recent and long term) of allowing much grace for its members who have not towed the SGM line on many issues of this sort - homeschooling, courtship, submission to authorities the SGM way, polity structure within the church, missions, parachurch organizations, evangelism, church planting.
I guess where I part ways with SGM is that I DON’T believe that SGM has figured out God’s Heart, God’s best way of doing Christianity, which is honestly how their churches come across to me. My life has been greatly enriched in the last years to see many expressions of Christian devotion and worship that look nothing like the SGM model, though they are founded on ”good doctrine.”
December 13th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Carole:
“At least, a truly humble man would… he wouldn’t rely on his own (deceitful) heart to make a life-changing decision. Would he???”
That is always a contradiction or SGM doublespeak. They teach so often from that one scripture in Jermiah that the heart is sick but so many times trust one leader to make decisions. It certainly is a contradiction. It is as if they want to apply this passage of scripture to regular members but it doesn’t apply to leaders. What a contradiction.
One question I have that don’t think has been answered is were there problems at the San Diego Church or things not going well that might call for a change? I don’t recall anyone standing up and say that this was the case. I have seen situations where there was clearly a need for some kind of change. Things weren’t going well in a church and something should have changed.
December 13th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Steve,
You said: One question I have that don’t think has been answered is were there problems at the San Diego Church or things not going well that might call for a change? I don’t recall anyone standing up and say that this was the case.
I haven’t heard anything about any problems in the San Diego church. Anyone have any information or insight regarding this?
I have seen situations where there was clearly a need for some kind of change. Things weren’t going well in a church and something should have changed.
Ummmmm… like…. maybe Brent’s church???? Or other SGM churches and/or pastors that have many, many reports of authoritarian abuse taking place?
Can you say “double standard”?
December 13th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Gracie,
I couldn’t have said it better myself!
December 13th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Carole:
You said: Ummmmm… like…. maybe Brent’s church???? Or other SGM churches and/or pastors that have many, many reports of authoritarian abuse taking place?
Can you say “double standard”?
I thought about this a little bit. My guess that with Detwiler they would be more reluctant to go after him since from what I have heard he is pretty strong willed. He also use to be on the apostolic team so has more clout as they say. I am also sure SGM leadership doesn’t look at the reports of abuse nearly the same way we do.
Imagine what would happen if they tried to make Detwiler step down and he fought it? It might pave the way for others to question. Who knows maybe some of the churches would withdraw from the denonimation if they were legally able to do that? I am sure this scenario has crossed their mind.
I know my thoughts are cynical but I am sure I have a point.
Steve
December 13th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Steve,
There absolutely appears to be a double standard.
I have no direct knowledge, but all of my “eyes on the ground” tell me that Brent is out of control. I’m told that his youngest came an inch away from eloping. At 18, the young man was running away from home. I’m also told that Brent was not too happy with members who gave the young man shelter.
I would assume that a run of the mill SGM pastor would get the boot under the same circumstances. I would certainly hope so.
Brent took 20% of CrossWay’s budget with him on his “church plant”. He obviously has his own following, and doesn’t need SGM. I’m told that Gene Emerson’s trip to Brentville didn’t bare much fruit. Maybe Brent’s not ready for Gene’s “oversight”.
Danny Jones’ parenting issues seem to have been overlooked as well.
If SGM would only get serious about Biblical qualifications for elders and quit being so (seemingly) concerned about things like San Diego’s budget.
They really have become a joke-and I’m not laughing. The sadness this brings to my heart is one reason I’m not very active here anymore. I really don’t want to think about it.
SGM could have been a great movement. Their unBiblical polity (apostolic and pastoral authority) may very well be what kills them. Fast forward 30 years to when the pastor’s kids (or son in laws) are running the show.
Scarey.
December 13th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
30 years? How many pastors are there where their son is automatically sent to the PC and become pastors in their father’s church? The hand off has already been happening to many, inexperienced “boys”. I guess they are keeping it close to the chest and not letting the reins get too far away. Kind of like the King of Scotland’s father in Braveheart. Out of sight, but running the show from the back room.
December 13th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
How very sad. I had a chance to hear Mark Lauterbach speak at my old SGM church and I found him to be very refreshing and engaging and definately not from the same mold as a typical SGM pastor. I recall him stating during his opening remarks prior to beginning his message how happy he and his wife were to be a part of SGM and how it was like a coming home. I wonder if he feels that way now? More to the point, I wonder if the San Diego church was simply not growing and someone needed to be scapegoated?
December 13th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
SGM’s top down, highly centralized goverance style without absolutly no input from the members is one of the reasons I prefer the presbyterian style. After this latest occurance in San Diego, PK’s recent posts critiquing SGM’s polity are all the more relevant and appropriate.
December 13th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Jim,
Don’t be sad!! It’s time to press in now and PRAY, pray, pray! God’s letting these things become known for a reason, and maybe soon change is coming so that our brothers and sisters in PDI/sgm will be set free from the plans of men and the glorious GOOD NEWS of the Lord Jesus will be made known to everyone who is burdened and weighted down by any legalism!!
December 13th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
SGMFlorida-
I’m with you. In 30 years, they’ll be “apostles”.
December 13th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
I just read the post on SGMsurvivors and the comment from Steve Shank about Spurgeon’s church only lasting a generation is just not true. The Metropolitan Tabernacle is still in existence and appears to be doing just fine. Steve’s comment would appear to nothing more than alarmist hyperbole.
December 13th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
I just read that on SGMsurvivors was under evaluation for 18 months. He has only been in SGM for five years (60 months). This means that for 30% of the time that he was a senior pastor he was under evaluation. Kris makes a good point on Survivors in saying that SGM could not figure out during Lauterbach’s coming into SGM whether or not he was gifted to be a senior pastor since, unlike other SGM pastors, he came into the organization with a defined body of work. This would not appear to speak well of SGM leadership’s discernment abilities.
December 13th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
I always loved it that SGM refers to these changes as “repositionings” as of people were just chess pieces to be moved about the board. That term just seems utterly corporate and de-humanizing.
December 13th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Former,
It’s also very interesting that the pastor who is being “repositioned” always shares what a “joy” it is to have the kind of oversight and accountability SGM provides. All the while having been “found” lacking or having sin issues requiring their “repositioning” by said SGM leadership. They all tend to say the same types of phrases during the announcement to their church, like maybe they have been given a script… it’s quite… ummmmm… interesting.
December 13th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
I just a read a small biography of Mark Lauterbach which I found on the internet and it states that he was part of the “Conservative Baptists” before joining SGM and according to Wikipedia has connections to Charles Spurgeon. This would seem to stand Steve Shank’s comment about Spurgeon’s church not lasting on its head. The legacy of Charles Spurgeon lives on in many forms and not just at the Metropolitan Tabernacle.
December 14th, 2008 at 3:27 am
Can you say dizernment? LOL Couldn’t resist!
December 14th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Carole,
“Can you say “double standard”?”….
Carole, I was reminded this weekend of something that happened in my old SGM church. A person in the church died and left all his goods to a needy group in our church. The night he died a pastor and some care group leaders went over and took what they wanted first. It was very sad and when I tried to say it was wrong got a big song and dance for why it was fine.
There is a double standard among leadership; which says, we can violate any principles as long as they bring some type of profit…and there is no accountability for leadership except amongst themselves which makes group think all the more necessary…
December 14th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Butterfly:
You have got to be kidding. Such an action is not only sad but reprehensible.
December 14th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Here is a double standar I know I have shared this on the SGSurvivors blog. Mahaney made Tomczac step down over supposed problems with the behavior of one of his sons. Mahaney has acknowledged problems with pride over the years. It sure is a double standard that Mahaney was never required to step down even for a season.
December 14th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Steve:
I think the difference in Mahaney’s mind is that by acknowledging pride he is being transparent and humble and seeking help “from outside of himself” whereas I am sure that he and others in leadership would assert that Larry had to step down because he had not been transparent about the issue with his son.
I recall a few years ago listening to a tape where Robin Boisvert was disciplined for the same issue. Robin did not step down but he was rebuked publically for it.
December 15th, 2008 at 8:28 am
I know enough about certain esteemed leader’s kids….if I wanted to spill…..but the kids are involved, so I won’t.
But, in light of the double-standard, its the only thing holding me back.
December 15th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I am really concerned for some of the SGM teens. My kids are still in contact with some of them and if I were their parents, I would be taking my kids and RUNNING out of that place. Some of those kids are dying spiritually.
December 15th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
It’s hard to run when you’ve been told over and over that this is the “dearest place on earth” and everyone else seems to be getting right and the big old world out there seems so scary and you’ve been hobbled by excessive focus on your own sins (which must surely be why your kids are dying spiritually because this is the “dearest place on earth” and . . .
December 16th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
the more SGM members link up with movements like Doug Phillip’s Vison Forum and dominionism (which is also HIGHLY authoritarian and legalistic, just ask those coming out of there) the more things as a whole will digress. Just as the Spirit bears witness with the Spirit in others, these spirits of legalism “bear witness” – ever wonder why certain groups with some very different views in some areas seem to have a connection in others?
I was alarmed at seeing the beginnings of the false teaching dominionism in my former SGM church – again, because of lack of discernment, nobody really sees this even now. Or if they do they aren’t saying anything.
It is this second generation of SGMers that pose even more of a threat than the original apostles like CJ because they are adopting even more leglistic and false teachings (such as dominionism, patriarchal teachings, etc) and when you combine all these false teaschings, it is a spiritual storm and mess. Out of the authoritarian spirit in SGM these other false teachings have been birthed and are growing momentum and influence. There is a whole undercurrent (becoming an OVERT current) in homeschool circles that fits right in line with SGM teachings.
All of it is an abomination to God, all of it quenches the Spirit and is not in love.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
OK, change of subject, but here is more of the “Leaders are special, sheep are just dumb sheep” mentality at SGM. The following I found on the website of Sovereign Grace Church in Chesapeake, Virginia website. Their website link is here: http://www.sgconline.org/index.php?pID=276
“On December 7, Sovereign Grace Church will hold our annual Leaders’ Christmas Banquet. This is a night spent honoring the men and women who serve our church by leading a service ministry or Care Group. The evening begins at 6:00 pm. Thank you for providing your own childcare. This event is invite only.”
Wow, I think that says it all – Honor is due to leaders, others are clearly excluded, and children are not welcomed. Hmm. such love for the Body – er, I mean leadership..
December 17th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Juli,
I agree they are off base on this. I think honoring our leaders is a biblical concept; but, it should be done by the people in the care groups and not leaders honoring leaders. The pastors could do that in a private way. Like giving them a gift card with a sincere thank you note or something for Christmas. Their exclusive parties method does inspire the “you have arrived” attitude, and it can leave those there working toward recognition instead of doing all they do for the Lord and not man.
Wait! I just had a great idea – Where is the suggestion box? — they could give all the Care group leaders big ESV Study bibles signed by CJ, now that would be cool. Or, how about if you have been a care group leader for 5 years or less you get a watered down version of systematic theology, and over 5 years you get the autographed ESV. That would inspire those burnt out care group leaders to hang in there another year or two.
December 20th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Butterfly, you crack me up! Talk about incentives!
I can tell you what it meant in my own church, for example, what it meant to be in the “in” group vs. someone on the outside. Keep in mind nothing was ever actually spoken, it was the unspoken expecations somehow because I didn’t come up with this on my own! What is creepy is that when I share what I felt compelled to do or not do, it is identical to many others halfway across the country in other SGM churches. But these are just specific to my own church…and I’m just saying…
1. Talk often about a SGM CD series you listened to and comment favorably on it
2. Use CJ quotes in your sharing times at care group
3. Quote Piper all the time too, he’s the best
4. GO to care group, if oyu don’t you are not committed to the Body enough
5. Make yourself available to serve others in the Body – making meals if you are a woman, helping move people if you are a man, so on.
6. Recommend or be familiar with the books on the book table which came from SGM
7. Read CJ’s humility book which was given to you free when the church was adopted in as a “gracious welcoming gift”
8. Because the apostle always praises the pastor when he comes to preach, be thankful you have such a great pastor because this guy who is “someone special” certainly does – so be a joy to your pastor
9. always build up (now I know it was also a puffing up at times) your brothers and sisters by giving them recognition – just like the apostles do at the conferences – recognition of pastors and leaders (but never ordinary people) with gifts and gimmicks, songs, gifts.
10. sell everything you own if you have to to raise money to go to Fusion (or Celebration, or whatever you call it) You just better do everything possible to go to Fusion because God is going to show up there.
11. The sooner you learn the new songs on the latest SGM music CD on your own by buying the CD, the less foolish you will look trying to learn them when the worship teams starts playing those songs
so I did think I was insane because I had these “voices” in my head that I clearly were listening to, and felt compelled to do certain things and was always stressed out. Fear of man, idolatry and legalism does that to a person, it is exhausting!
Anyway, I remember the first time I found the survivors site I thought – I’m not losing my mind! Somebody else was thinking the things I was! It doesn’t minimize the sin I was clearly committing, but by then I had repented and it sort of just gave me peace about how I was so guilty of those sins for so long and nobody seemed to “validate” the sins in the Body for me or agree with me – it made me feel crazy because I was clearly under conviction of the Holy Spirit. This is the danger I think, when the voice of man (or your pastor, or friends) becaomes more reliable and familiar than the voice of God in your life.
December 20th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Juli,
oh my… so on target.
Furthermore:
- drop that you have been reading Jonathan Edwards or another Puritan, if you want to seen as “deep into theology”
- if you are single, marry a daughter or son of a church member who is “in”
- if you want to attend the PC, marry a female relative of a pastor
- if you are a man, emphasize your athletic abilities. If you have none, joke about it often.
- if you are a woman, make sure others see that you have a budget for home decoration
- if you are a woman, please start a blog to “encourage biblical femininity” and link to the Mahaney girls’ blog.
- quote from the “Journal on Biblical Counseling” every now and then
- make sure you remain unaware of all things “reformed” outside of the “Together for the Gospel” circles.
I could come up with many more…
December 21st, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Juli,
I know exactly what you mean. There is such a leading in SGM that draws you to seek man’s approval and it really does become idolatry. I did a fair amount of service at SGM – works that will burn in the fire when tested. I read books that I knew would please my leadership. I went to Celebration even when I had zero desire but I went in obedience with a good attitude. I counseled, loved, and served; most for nothing because it wasn’t really for God but for myself and the approval I would get.
One of the true freedoms I have now is just serving because I want to please God or even just because it is something I want to do. There is no over acceptance given to those that are serving and no back seat for those that aren’t. My pastor and his wife are good about treating all the sheep equal and it really gives you freedom to just be a part of the body. It is hard to explain – but I just know it is really freeing. Now, I can serve without thought of what notch up I will get in someone’s eyes, or whose watching, or have my pride uplifted. I just serve and have fun doing it. It is so great!
December 24th, 2008 at 2:32 am
I will go to sleep tonight with that voice burning in my head. ”Here in AZ” you hit it right on the head!
“Here in AZ
December 14th, 2008 at 3:27 am
Can you say dizernment? LOL Couldn’t resist!”
December 26th, 2008 at 3:00 am
The “pride” and “gifting” paintbrush is obscenely wide in SGM.
I am probably a bit more jaded than others here, but I am tired of the It’s-all-about-leader-worship nonsense, which the whole Shank-Lauterbauch-Who’s-Next episode is all about. We sheep are expected to applaud whatever comes down the pike -nothing more and nothing less- and we are corrected if we indicate any type of spiritual fatigue from their endless re-running clown show.
If I want Letterman funnies or Obama epithets, I’ll watch them… in the meantime, please keep the clown act out of the Bride of Christ. Christ gave Himself for her, and he doesn’t need pseudo-profundity and bully tactics staining her.
…pk
December 26th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
PK,
I couldn’t agree with you more!
December 26th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
PK posted!
December 27th, 2008 at 2:00 am
PK,
I’d venture to say that you’re not the only one as jaded as you are…
December 28th, 2008 at 7:58 am
PK,
How are you? Any better? Soooo glad to have you posting again.
S