Comments on: MISSIOLOGY Part 4: Final Thoughts on the True Source of Apostolic Authority http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/ a haven for castaways, a call for reform Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:07:56 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4279 canary Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:15:50 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4279 Oh, right!  Gottcha!  :) Oh, right!  Gottcha!  :)

]]> By: Ellie http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4275 Ellie Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:54:44 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4275 In this case it's a kind of "ut oh, I would be skeered if those verses applied to me"! face... In this case it’s a kind of “ut oh, I would be skeered if those verses applied to me”! face…

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4274 canary Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:48:12 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4274 Ellie, I don't understand what the face means.  Is that surprise?  :) Ellie,

I don’t understand what the face means.  Is that surprise?  :)

]]> By: Ellie http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4273 Ellie Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:31:55 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4273 8O 8O

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4271 canary Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:36:26 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4271 <strong>"...Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, between the rams and the great he-goats (the malicious and the tyrants of the pasture).     Is it too little for you that you feed on the best pasture, but you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pasture?  And to have drunk of the waters clarified by subsiding, but you must foul the rest of the water with your feet?        And My flock, must they feed on what your feet have trodden and drink what your feet have fouled?  Therefore thus says the Lord God to them:  Behold, I, I Myself, will judge between fat sheep and imporverished sheep, or fat goats and lean goats.      Because you push with side and with shoulder and thrust with your horns all those that have become weak and diseased, till you ahve scattered them abroad, therefore I will rescue my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.  And I will raise up over them one Shepherd and He shall feed them..."  Ez. 34: 17-23 (Amplified). </strong>Thank God for Jesus Christ, our Great Shepherd. “…Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, between the rams and the great he-goats (the malicious and the tyrants of the pasture). 

   Is it too little for you that you feed on the best pasture, but you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pasture?  And to have drunk of the waters clarified by subsiding, but you must foul the rest of the water with your feet?   

    And My flock, must they feed on what your feet have trodden and drink what your feet have fouled?  Therefore thus says the Lord God to them:  Behold, I, I Myself, will judge between fat sheep and imporverished sheep, or fat goats and lean goats. 

    Because you push with side and with shoulder and thrust with your horns all those that have become weak and diseased, till you ahve scattered them abroad, therefore I will rescue my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.  And I will raise up over them one Shepherd and He shall feed them…”  Ez. 34: 17-23 (Amplified).

Thank God for Jesus Christ, our Great Shepherd.

]]> By: DB http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4269 DB Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:09:52 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4269 Oh, I'll just come out and say what Stunned is too polite to say; Shepherd eats all he wants and what's left for the sheep? Yup, you got it, crap from the Shepherds. Oh, I’ll just come out and say what Stunned is too polite to say; Shepherd eats all he wants and what’s left for the sheep?

Yup, you got it, crap from the Shepherds.

]]> By: Stunned http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4247 Stunned Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:53:21 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4247 I was just trying to imagine trickle down shepherding.  Let's see, a shepherd eats everything he wants or needs.  He sleeps lots.  Has fun with his friends and somehow, this alone is supposed to take care of his sheep?  They are supposed to be happier and full just watching their shepherd eating.  Hmmm, let's give that a try out on a pasture sometime and see how many sheep are still alive by the end of the season. I was just trying to imagine trickle down shepherding.  Let’s see, a shepherd eats everything he wants or needs.  He sleeps lots.  Has fun with his friends and somehow, this alone is supposed to take care of his sheep?  They are supposed to be happier and full just watching their shepherd eating.  Hmmm, let’s give that a try out on a pasture sometime and see how many sheep are still alive by the end of the season.

]]> By: musicman http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4234 musicman Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:28:03 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4234 Former- I think you hit the nail on the head-SG's vision of equipping the saints (who are not SG leadership material) is to make sure they obey and are a joy to their pastors.  And I have seen up close, that SG in it's corporate structure is really catered to serve pastors and seldom anyone else.  I'm sure they'd say the best way to serve the people is to equip the pastors (trickle down means of grace)-but I think they've narrowed the definition of ministry and abonded the idea of the preisthood of believers when it comes to practice and practical discipleship. Just my 2 cents. peace-mm Former-

I think you hit the nail on the head-SG’s vision of equipping the saints (who are not SG leadership material) is to make sure they obey and are a joy to their pastors.  And I have seen up close, that SG in it’s corporate structure is really catered to serve pastors and seldom anyone else.  I’m sure they’d say the best way to serve the people is to equip the pastors (trickle down means of grace)-but I think they’ve narrowed the definition of ministry and abonded the idea of the preisthood of believers when it comes to practice and practical discipleship.

Just my 2 cents.

peace-mm

]]> By: formersgmer http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4233 formersgmer Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:56:53 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4233 Has anyone viewed the new mission videos appearing on SGM's website?  I think they are very interesting in light of this series of posts regarding missiology.  In particular, CJ talks about why SGM exists and if I am quoting him correctly, he states that it exists to serve plant churches and serve pastors but nothing about training and equipping lay folks for the work of missions rather folks are just encouraged to send in their money.  If I was more cynical I would think of this as nothing more than a shakedown. I find this to be very sad since I have understood one of the primary roles of a pastor to be that of equipping the saints for the work of ministry. Has anyone viewed the new mission videos appearing on SGM’s website?  I think they are very interesting in light of this series of posts regarding missiology.  In particular, CJ talks about why SGM exists and if I am quoting him correctly, he states that it exists to serve plant churches and serve pastors but nothing about training and equipping lay folks for the work of missions rather folks are just encouraged to send in their money.  If I was more cynical I would think of this as nothing more than a shakedown.

I find this to be very sad since I have understood one of the primary roles of a pastor to be that of equipping the saints for the work of ministry.

]]> By: Protestant Knight http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4102 Protestant Knight Tue, 04 Nov 2008 11:40:23 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4102 I appreciate everyone's words of encouragement, and prayers, more than you know.  I, in turn, will be praying for those who are in a rough season or have physical conditions/needs as well. Christ is sufficent for all things! I would encourage everyone here to not make a golden calf out of this election, as I found myself doing. While God can bless and judge a nation through its leaders, these leaders, in the end, are<strong> not our saviors</strong>.  <em>Christ and Christ alone is our Savior</em>. Pray for our nation as a whole, and not just those promising they can "fix" it.  They can't.  We need to fall upon God's mercy, as His mercy is wonderful, just and true. Happy voting! Remain in the grip of His grace. ...pk I appreciate everyone’s words of encouragement, and prayers, more than you know.  I, in turn, will be praying for those who are in a rough season or have physical conditions/needs as well.

Christ is sufficent for all things!

I would encourage everyone here to not make a golden calf out of this election, as I found myself doing.

While God can bless and judge a nation through its leaders, these leaders, in the end, are not our saviors.  Christ and Christ alone is our Savior.

Pray for our nation as a whole, and not just those promising they can “fix” it.  They can’t.  We need to fall upon God’s mercy, as His mercy is wonderful, just and true.

Happy voting!

Remain in the grip of His grace.

…pk

]]> By: Charlie http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4101 Charlie Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:42:44 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4101 Pk,    I appreciate all your posts and your encouragements.  I do love what you are doing, and I know there are many men that think, feel and believe exactly what you are doing.    My hat is off though (as I write under a alias) to the men and women who have represented themselves face to face with no mask.  Like Jim, and ex-intern.  And my _____________friend who has suffered seriously for biblical truth.  Man, it grieves me for the church.  I don't know these other men, but my _______________friend did his best to represent the scriptures in the same way you do here, only to be beat away with false accusations of "sin"  I am not as intellegent  as you gentlemen are as I am learning day by day...my place was also to speak truth, and then to pray.  I did leave, I ran from serious deception but I appreciate all you are doing for the body of Christ.     Pk,
   I appreciate all your posts and your encouragements.  I do love what you are doing, and I know there are many men that think, feel and believe exactly what you are doing.

   My hat is off though (as I write under a alias) to the men and women who have represented themselves face to face with no mask.  Like Jim, and ex-intern.  And my
_____________friend who has suffered seriously for biblical truth.  Man, it grieves me for the church.  I don’t know these other men, but my _______________friend did his best to represent the scriptures in the same way you do here, only to be beat away with false accusations of “sin”  I am not as intellegent  as you gentlemen are as I am learning day by day…my place was also to speak truth, and then to pray.  I did leave, I ran from serious deception but I appreciate all you are doing for the body of Christ.    

]]> By: DB http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4099 DB Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:43:20 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4099 I'll be praying for you, PK. I, too, have a chronic physical condition that wipes me out especially when I'm experiencing stress. I will also pray for your writing and hope I don't raise my hackles upon reading it (as you suggest may happen.) I’ll be praying for you, PK. I, too, have a chronic physical condition that wipes me out especially when I’m experiencing stress.

I will also pray for your writing and hope I don’t raise my hackles upon reading it (as you suggest may happen.)

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4098 canary Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:32:40 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4098 That's for sure, Anxious!  You will be amazed how life changes AL.  Just soak up His amazing grace.  Breathe the fresh air of freedom in Christ.  I'm so glad for you and your family.  I know that you will find a loving body of believers to be a part of.  They are everywhere!  :) That’s for sure, Anxious!  You will be amazed how life changes AL.  Just soak up His amazing grace.  Breathe the fresh air of freedom in Christ.  I’m so glad for you and your family.  I know that you will find a loving body of believers to be a part of.  They are everywhere!  :)

]]> By: Anxious http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4097 Anxious Sun, 02 Nov 2008 21:18:36 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4097 Thanks, Canary I've had fibro for 21 years. I just have to get rest and also rest in Jesus. I think a lot will subside as my family gets through the leaving process. a Thanks, Canary
I’ve had fibro for 21 years. I just have to get rest and also rest in Jesus. I think a lot will subside as my family gets through the leaving process.
a

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4096 canary Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:20:41 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4096 Anxious, It has been a busy time.  I will be glad when the elections are over.  It's been almost two years of campaigning!  I'm sorry you experience chronic problems with fibro.  It is a hard disease to diagnose, and still harder to live with.  I believe the Lord allows these sort of trials in our lives to teach us to rest in Him more, to depend on Him, to know HIm better. I've also heard from a number of women who have experienced similar chronic problems after leaving SGM.  For me, it was as though my body got creamed from all the stress that I experienced AL (after leaving).  It was a sign that I had been enslaved by fear, by man's traditions, and was terrified about what would happen to me if I began walking in freedom.  Would I be ruined?  Would I loose Jesus?  Would I die? Because of Jesus, none of those terrible things happened.  But the fear of them was so real that my body took on alot of ailments.  I had to learn to be comfortable walking as a free woman instead of a slave to religion.  I have finally found the peace that surpasses understanding.  Though I still deal with one or two physical issues, the others are gone.  Rest in my soul gave me rest also in my body.  I pray that our Great Physician comforts and guides you, that you experience peace in Him, even during the "spells" that come with fibro.  :) Anxious,

It has been a busy time.  I will be glad when the elections are over.  It’s been almost two years of campaigning! 

I’m sorry you experience chronic problems with fibro.  It is a hard disease to diagnose, and still harder to live with.  I believe the Lord allows these sort of trials in our lives to teach us to rest in Him more, to depend on Him, to know HIm better. I’ve also heard from a number of women who have experienced similar chronic problems after leaving SGM.  For me, it was as though my body got creamed from all the stress that I experienced AL (after leaving).  It was a sign that I had been enslaved by fear, by man’s traditions, and was terrified about what would happen to me if I began walking in freedom.  Would I be ruined?  Would I loose Jesus?  Would I die?

Because of Jesus, none of those terrible things happened.  But the fear of them was so real that my body took on alot of ailments.  I had to learn to be comfortable walking as a free woman instead of a slave to religion.  I have finally found the peace that surpasses understanding.  Though I still deal with one or two physical issues, the others are gone.  Rest in my soul gave me rest also in my body. 

I pray that our Great Physician comforts and guides you, that you experience peace in Him, even during the “spells” that come with fibro.  :)

]]> By: Anxious http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4095 Anxious Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:16:02 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4095 pk I, too, echo the above comments. This has been my lifeline. I have been on the forum to read and about 3 times a day I check this site. Where is everybody? I've been praying for your back also. I know what it is to crash. I have fibromyalgia and sometimes the pain and fatigue put me flat on my back. I will be praying for you as you get ready for the next post. a pk
I, too, echo the above comments. This has been my lifeline. I have been on the forum to read and about 3 times a day I check this site. Where is everybody? I’ve been praying for your back also. I know what it is to crash. I have fibromyalgia and sometimes the pain and fatigue put me flat on my back. I will be praying for you as you get ready for the next post.

a

]]> By: Singing Cook http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4094 Singing Cook Sun, 02 Nov 2008 04:54:44 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4094 PK, I wanted to let you know I have so appreciated you thoughts on Missiology.  I know you have put many hours and much energy into each post.  All I can say is AMEN and AMEN.  i know you believe you are called to "stay and fight" for now but my heart truly grieves for you and your wife.  YOur heartbeat beats differently than SGM.  It can't be easy.  I really do hope and pray -you and your beloved find somewhere to be refreshed and strengthened in HIM while you are there in the thick of the battle. If people are not responding and commenting as you hoped it really may be the election.  I have been focused on that for the last few months.  But I wanted you and Jim to know I read and reread to remind myself I am not the crazy one and the things God was speaking to my heart about were legitimate.  thanks so much for your thoughts, time and energy.  I have been immearsurably blessed, SC PK,

I wanted to let you know I have so appreciated you thoughts on Missiology.  I know you have put many hours and much energy into each post.  All I can say is AMEN and AMEN.  i know you believe you are called to “stay and fight” for now but my heart truly grieves for you and your wife.  YOur heartbeat beats differently than SGM.  It can’t be easy.  I really do hope and pray -you and your beloved find somewhere to be refreshed and strengthened in HIM while you are there in the thick of the battle.

If people are not responding and commenting as you hoped it really may be the election.  I have been focused on that for the last few months.  But I wanted you and Jim to know I read and reread to remind myself I am not the crazy one and the things God was speaking to my heart about were legitimate. 
thanks so much for your thoughts, time and energy.  I have been immearsurably blessed,
SC

]]> By: Protestant Knight http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4092 Protestant Knight Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:10:01 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4092 <p>Reformed Teacher, canary & Singing Cook:</p> <p>Your prayers are appreciated and are felt!</p> <p>Jim... I have not dropped off the face of the earth!</p> <p>...pk</p> Reformed Teacher, canary & Singing Cook:

Your prayers are appreciated and are felt!

Jim… I have not dropped off the face of the earth!

…pk

]]> By: Singing Cook http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4091 Singing Cook Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:11:09 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4091 PK, So sorry to hear about your physical valley. James 1:5 "if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him."  Remain steadfast in Him.  I will pray for you.  That He will "lavish" you with wisdom and faith. :-\ PK,

So sorry to hear about your physical valley.
James 1:5 “if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him.”  Remain steadfast in Him. 

I will pray for you.  That He will “lavish” you with wisdom and faith.
:-\

]]> By: canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/10/22/missiology-part-4-final-thoughts-on-the-true-source-of-apostolic-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-4090 canary Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:18:20 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=183#comment-4090 PK, The Lord keep you and protect you.  This tweety bird will spend some time in her cage (with the door open!) lifting you up.  :) PK,

The Lord keep you and protect you.  This tweety bird will spend some time in her cage (with the door open!) lifting you up.  :)

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