Absolutely.

I’d also rather debate a Mormon or a Satanist than one of the higher ups in SGM, because at least then it is clear cut on what people believe and why they believe it.  I had to re-educate myself on what words mean when I began to honestly read the very books SGM promotes, some of which contradict or offer startling contrasts to what SGM’s typical line of defense and offense is.

…pk

I just noticed that the title of this is, “Entering the Minefield of the World”.  My first thought was, “I’d much prefer the minefield of the world to the minefield of SGM.”  I’ve already been blown apart way too many times by SGM to fear the world at all.

I’m pretty proud of all of them. Her younger sister is going to represent the US in the World Cup for Shotokan karate (she’s leaving tomorrow.) They’re all shining in their own way. 

But, no low rise jeans with high heels here. I can actually fit into my girls clothes, but a middle aged woman really doesn’t look good with that crack is wack thong showing sort of look. And I look like I have a stick up a strategic localle when I’m walking in heels, so I don’t even bother. My shoe of choice is made by birkenstock.

HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!  Time for girdles, me thinks!  Have you seen some of the high wedge shoes out there?  I put on a pair of my daughter’s and was rather proud that I could get myself accross the room without tripping.  My husband said, “No, uh-uh, no way.  You’ll break your neck in those things!”  So, alas, I went back to my flats.  Boring, but safe.

I think we’ve really gotten off subject.  Sorry, guys! 

I’m still waiting for someone to explain how churches can preach the gospel with man’s traditions attached.  Or why we don’t see a thousand saved in a day, hence, a new church begins.  Does this happen anywhere today?  I’d love to know, because I’ve never seen it.  Just curious.

DB,  You must be very proud of your daughter, the doctor! 

Try moving your daughter into a beautiful new home.

Or the fact she’s a doctor.

Or grandchildren…..that’s next, can you believe it.

Hollester, no, I don’t even darken that door, I know better.

And I don’t take them with me when I shop, either. They try to pour me into cute, tight, low rise belly showing things.

Not a pretty sight.

No problem.  Glad I didn’t offend.

Wait til your son turns 23, then talk about feeling old! 

Oh, and go into Hollester’s with your two teen daughters.  I always go away from that store feeling a ancient.  At least they have comfortable leather chairs for us geriatrics to sit and rest our weary feet, while rock music blares so loud that our ears ring.  It’s really bad when we begin tapping our feet to the beat!  Or when we realize that the largest size in the store wouldn’t fit over our thighs!

Whoops – I’ve gone off subject…what were we talking about?

Jim and Carole – wondered why you guys seemed to disappear – but it is good to take a break.  October is my FAVORITE month – and my son was also born this month ten years ago – now I am feeling old

I love this time of year, the weather, the comfort foods, the smells (apples, cinnamon, spice, pumpkin) the leaves..all of it. I wish I lived in the Northeast this time of year, I bet Vermont and Maine are gorgeous right now. Maryland, when I lived there, was pretty beautiful in the fall in Western MD.

whatver you guys are doing, I hope you are enjoying this time of year…

Has anyone considered the great divide between one who is moral, and one who is moralistic?

Don’t look on dictionary.com, as I don’t think it will be helpful.

I’m hoping that I’ll have time this week to address this, at it has become a crucial component of SGM SOP.

I’m sorry that Carole and I have in essence removed our voice from this blog. It’s a seasonal issue.

Please know that we still love our friends here, and continue to love “the mission” here.

Thank God for our friend PK.

I hope my last two posts didn’t appear angry.  I wasn’t upset, just asking questions, trying to understand.  Thanks for the verse.  That was the other one I was looking for.

 Mark 9: 38“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
 39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

Now, what exactly would be defined as ”FOR” in the sense of the gospel? I think Paul made it very clear in Galatians that preaching or teaching legalism is NOT the true gospel, it is another gospel, and in that case, Pharisees are “against” us. Jesus was the most harsh with the Pharisees himself. I don’t see him coddling them, he rebuked them, called them to repentance. He cared for and ministered to those who were aware they were unrighteous, not the self-righteous.

With regard to SGM which clearly has been impacted by the leaven of the Pharisees (legalism, another gospel) we must be discerning and realize that there are exceptions – some churches aren’t legalistic, some SGM pastors are not, and some even in leadership at SGM may not be, who knows? But the fact remains that where we SEE and HEAR legalistic teachings and attitudes we CORRECT it. We bring it to light AS legalism. That is what the blogs do. But we need to be careful to focus on the false teaching and false gospel, and not lump everyone into the same category.

If, for example, so-and-so in SGM wrote a book or paper or preached a sermon that was legalistic, and this was evident, then we point out the error. Attack the teaching, not the vehicle by which it is being proliferated (Sgm or a particular man). When you attack teachings and doctrines and not man (who our battle is not against anyway) you can have a clear conscience that you have not judged motives or the heart. We are simply speaking the truth, in love.

We all need to be careful to remember that. If people reading these blogs see even a hint of us focusing on people’s motives, they are outta here, as can be expected. What people should see when they come on here is a glaring revelation of truth - in opposition to false teaching, practices, and doctrines. And we tend to be heavy on sharing our experiences, which is OK to an extent. But I appreicate the fact that PK has taken the time to present the fase teachings and doctrines present in SGM. The focus is right, and helpful as we all can testify.

The balance would be this:
1) present the false teachings, experiences, and false doctrines against the backdrop of truth (shown in the Word).
2)When someone is unable to “make the connection” between why their negative SGM experience was a certain way, link it to the false teachings that likely contributed to this (again against the backdrop of the Word).
3) Finally, discuss personal responsibility, if any. We don’t see alot of that unfortunately, but it will come in time. I think because we were all in the “indwelling sin” camp that we are a bit tired of public confessions of sin, we hate “sin sniffing” etc. But we are still sinners of course. And I don’t see any sin sniffers on this blog, so it should be a good place to discuss the things we were hesitant to before, under an authoritarian system. There is love for one another on this blog here, that is evident. And God will reveal our responsibility, if applicable, as well.

These are some things the Lord has been teaching me lately, how to walk in love, and how to speak the truth. What causes others to stumble, and so on. So I wanted to share it with you guys. I hope it is encouraging – it is possible to see change in SGM and in the lives of those we love. But we have a responsibility to respond with self-control, not anger. I’ve been so guilty of responding to my experience in anger for so long – I think that is the “biting and devouring one another” that Paul warned against.

Oh great, now I’ll lay awake thinking.  Anybody have any answer to this?  I would love to understand. 

Thanks.  That’s the verse.  Interesting that Paul said that, whether by true or false motives, the gospel is being proclaimed.  So I say, whether by local church, para church, friendship evangelizing, or one person standing on a street corner preaching Jesus,  “I will rejoice and continue to rejoice!”  For SGM or any group to criticize others for preaching Christ outside of their authoriy is nonsense. 

Thanks, Gracie.  I am settled in my mind on the subject.  Your grrrrrrreat!

I was wondering how long your pastor has been at your church…approximately…like say…over 7 years or under 7 years?

I’m sorry Ellie, I can’t reveal that at this time.  I hope you can understand.

…pk

12Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has actually caused the gospel to advance. 13As a result, it has become clear to the whole imperial guard and to everyone else that I am in prison for preaching about[i] the Messiah. 14Moreover, because of my imprisonment the Lord has caused most of the brothers to become confident to speak God’s word more boldly and courageously than ever before. 15Some are preaching the Messiah because of jealousy and dissension, while others do so[j] because of their good will. 16The latter are motivated[k] by love, because they know that I have been appointed to defend the gospel. 17The former proclaim the Messiah because they are selfishly ambitious and insincere, thinking that they will stir up trouble for me during my imprisonment. 18But so what? Just this—that in every way, whether by false or true motives, the Messiah is being proclaimed. Because of this, I rejoice and will continue to rejoice.

Oh, and by the way, love that Keith Green!

I was wondering how long your pastor has been at your church…approximately…like say…over 7 years or under 7 years?

One that comes to mind is that SGM thinks that only they are able to preach the true gospel, that others not “under” local churches must have it wrong.  I’ve been looking for a verse that I just can’t find.  Someone was preaching Jesus and the Disciples/Apostles complained that this person was not of themselves, so he shouldn’t be preaching.  The response was so grace-filled.  As long as Jesus Christ was being preached, what did it matter who did it?  Can anyone point me to that section in the Bible?  I would really appreciate the help.

Also, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is pretty simple.  It doesn’t take a Pastor, leader, or theologian to spread it.  There is nowhere in the New Testament that says a person must be “allowed” by the local church to go out and preach the Good News.  God bless all the people and organizations out there who continue to share Jesus Christ with those who don’t know Him.  I came to know the Lord through a Keith Green concert when I was eighteen.  I will be forever grateful to this brother, who gave so much of Jesus to so many.

Apologies your comments were held by some spam filter, that’s why they are late in showing up.

Alarmed:

Echoing Jim’s thanks for the kind words, I’d also like to welcome you to the ‘Fuge!  Great comments, too, and know I will be praying for you and your family.  Mine and Jim’s posts here only scratch the surface on these topics, and to actually hear reports of folks searching the scriptures and doing personal/family bible studies blesses my heart.

Juli:

You are not going off on a tangent; the comments are great and helpful and stayed on track with our topic.  Even if you went off on a tangent, we’re always interested in what you have to say.  Thank you for letting God temper your posts with His word and your obvious love for the church that shines through in each of your posts.

On a quick sidenote and one example among many in my own SGM church… we have partnered with a para-church crisis-pregnancy type organization and an orphanage on many, many occasions and evangelistic activities.  To my knowledge they are not specifically SGM-founded organizations, either.  There is hope for SGM churches, folks; not all of them are making calls from the Philadelphia Pharisees playbook.  Keep praying!

…pk

Just so you know, this Sr pastor’s reaction to Young Life is typical in my experience with SGM.  But what’s odd is that CJ’s son in law talks about becoming a Christian thru Young Life.  But this is what happens when you emphasize that the gospel is best experienced by the authority of the local church instead of the scriptural belief that the gospel proclaimed (by anyone-wheher their motive is pure or not)  is the power of God to save all who hear and believe.   Paul especially seems to emphasize (in 1 Corinthians) that who you heard the good news from is not what should be important.