Where have we heard that before?
First some background. Carole and I walked into this endeavor with our eyes wide open. Much thought, much prayer, much counting the cost. I’ve had a few conversations with the guy I call my blog mentor, who runs the very high traffic Phoenix Preacher blog. Micheal has given me a ton of advice. Two very practical points were-get a team behind you praying. I believe we have that here, and are so very grateful! A second point was-get some help. This one threw me. Who? Where? How? Micheal encouraged me to trust God.
Somewhere around 2 months after we launched, this guy-Protestant Knight shows up on the blogs. We find ourselves agreeing with everything he says, and admire his heart for God, and his heart for SGM.
Like ours. For SGM.
PK knows more about SGM than I ever will. I see his comments here and on Survivors and want to make them posts. We get to know each other, spend hours on the phone. I hear his story, hear his heart, and ask God, could this be the guy?
Our conversation began as a request from me to occasionally use his comments as posts, and evolved into a partnership.
I’m thrilled and so grateful to announce that SGM Refuge is no longer “Jim and Carole’s blog”.
SGM Refuge is now hosted by Jim, Carole, and Protestant Knight. PK is not a guest host-he’s an administrator and moderator. A full partner. We are elated!
The addition will be very helpful on a number of fronts, but his current participation in Sovereign Grace Ministries and his long term relationship with them gives him a perspective we don’t have. Carole and I were only in SGM for 7 years, and my eyes glaze over when the conversation turns to Larry Tomczak , as everything I know about him, I’ve learned in the last few months.
I’ll let PK tell you about himself.
___________________________________________________________
Although you may not realize it, this is a pro-SGM website.
Jim and Carole love the members of Sovereign Grace Ministries churches, from top to bottom, otherwise they wouldn’t blog like this. They are family. They have entered the harsh realm of having to tell their spiritual siblings hard things to hear and see –some of it their own experience– and to balance this with Holy Scripture. This must be done so that the burdens of legalism can be laid down… this blog tries to untie the seemingly impossible, massive knot of sanctification and salvation… this blog has the thankless task of spotlighting hypocrisy, within and without… this blog is an ongoing conversation in the pursuit of the glory of God through reform… this is why I have linked arms with Jim and Carole.
Why else am I here? because I love the Lord.
I love the Lord, because He called me. I love the Lord, because He renewed my mind. I love the Lord, because when I cried out for Him to save me, it was only after I heard Him calling for me in that cave, that well of darkness. I was lost, and He found me.
I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live. It is not I, but Christ that lives in me… and this life that I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God… who loved me, and gave Himself, for me.
If you were to read Psalm 116 and Psalm 73, you would be reading a significant chunk of my testimony.
Above all else, is the glory of God. John Piper contends (successfully, I might add) that God is the Gospel.
So what does a blog that is critical of Sovereign Grace Ministries have to do with the glory of God? I think we have to start with the question, “What does Sovereign Grace Ministries have to do with the glory of God?” You don’t defend a movement or ministry because you’ve grown up in it, like me. You don’t vehemently defend practices because the prefix “biblical” has been added –or retrofitted– to a prescribed practice, like I’ve done. The words from the mouth of our leaders are only “biblical” if they square solidly with scripture. This is lived out by searching the scripture ourselves, as the Bereans did… by testing all things, and holding fast to that which is true… by being ready in season and out of season, whether it is convenient or inconvenient, to give a reason, an answer for the hope that lives within us. That answer is ultimately God, and nothing else.
That answer can never be “Well, there’s this wonderful church I go to…”
It’s because I’ve seen and heard that answer given first that I am here… because at one time, to my shame, I gave that answer first.
I don’t blog here to to pile wrath and malice onto the place I grew up in, but to do the opposite: Remain pro-SGM in a way that seeks reform, to love and respect leaders by balancing their life and words with the scriptures… and this is quite fearful at times for me… God has to constantly remind me that He is not the Spirit of fear, but of peace, love and a sound mind.
God is the Gospel. He is the reason for the hope that lives within us, and not because that life in this gated community we call church seems wonderful and comfortable. We do not serve because leaders tickle our ears with “peace, peace.” Playing church means getting dirty. If the Gospel beats within the heart of an SGM-affiliated church, the words, “This church isn’t for everyone,” should never be uttered again! We are his bride, and we should close our doors to nobody whom He has called!
My wife (call her Protestant Dame ) and I have two decades of life in SGM, with a seven year gap of when we were not attending an SGM church (due in part to geography). The roots run deep. I’ve left my helmet on here because, in the current atmosphere at SGM, leadership does not take kindly to criticism of how they handle their sheep. And so I pray.
And fight.
I think i read Ivanhoe too much as a boy.
I am hidden, and many may judge me a coward for currently not wholly revealing myself. I long for the day I can remove my helmet, but I have to fully realize it may be like the knight Desdecado’s revelation that he was, in fact, Wilfred of Ivanhoe. Ivanhoe’s father then turns his back on him, disgusted that Ivanhoe has defied him by leaving home to participate in the Crusades. Dad is further angered by Ivanhoe’s idealism in seeking the restoration of the Black Knight himself, King Richard the Lionhearted. While Richard himself is away at the Crusades, his rule has been usurped by his crafty and cruel brother John.
I want Christ restored as the head of Sovereign Grace Ministries, no matter how many people it offends or angers. I want our Starbucks blueprint of planting churches to be brought to an end. I want websites named after men to be renamed… and that those men would realize they are a puff of smoke, a fart in the wind compared to the eternal majesty of the Lord of hosts, and that Christ’s name is the only name to be elevated. I want the homeschooled and public-schooled and just the plain schooled to live together and not be polarized into a caste system like they currently are. I want Christ’s name and commands to be honored by going into all of the world with His Gospel.
God is the Gospel…
and I want my King back!
…pk
August 31st, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Wow! I am completely blown away by this post.
PK has been a particularly strong voice here; he has been a blessing and has really made me think about issues in ways that I doubt I would have done without his insights.
And, yes, this is a positive place. Imagine the good SG churches will do when the legalilsm is finally gone and their wonderful people are free to be their authentic selves; free to walk in their giftings and callings.
August 31st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Wow…I want my King back! PK, that is a battle cry. Your heart is fired up to see change. I’m so glad you are taking a front seat, here.
Jim and Carole,
Great move. Having PK take some of the reigns here is a huge step forward. It is just another example that your hearts are not to destroy but to build up. You also now have a defender. This is a very, very, smart move. My heart leaps with joy!
August 31st, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Our God is so good!
All I can do is agree with DB and Canary-Wow!
It’s funny-I’ve wanted to write a post for some time, stating: This is a pro-SGM site.
PK and I wrote our parts of this post independently. I wrote my part, saved it as a draft, and PK added his part.
Although he said it better and stronger than I did, I think we’ve made ourselves clear.
We are for SGM. We are pro SGM.
August 31st, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Jim, Carole and PK (and Protestant Dame!),
You continue to be in my prayers. It is good to be reminded that those who remain rooted in all things SGM are in just as much need of our voices as those who have been wounded and rejected by SGM, though they may not be as eager to hear us. May God be pleased with the things that transpire here and behind the scenes.
August 31st, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Gracie!
There were a few people I thought of before I wrote this post. You were one of them.
I knew you were praying for us. I can’t tell you how much that means to us. Thank you!
I also was concerned about those, such as your family, who suffered spiritual abuse at the hands of what is now SGM. I had to assume that those who have taken the time to get to know us would understand what we mean, and do not mean by “pro SGM”.
I’m not sure SGM will ever understand, but that can’t be our concern. Those you refer to in SGM may not be eager to hear us, but they are reading. They will continue reading because, as experts in damage control, they realize the genie is out of the bottle.
Those who are currently having their earth scorched now have a place to turn-the blogs. And they are coming to us, via email and on the phone, and are becoming bolder.
There are a number of hot spots in SGMland, and any one (or all) of the powder kegs could explode at any time. People are ready to name names and provide documentation.
This one site has more readers than Josh’s blog (and still growing), and SGM knows it. Add the readers of all the blogs together, and our footprint is huge. All of their attempts to “protect the sheep from those bad blogs” have backfired. Bigtime.
We will see change. It will be ugly as heck, but it will happen.
I’ve never had more faith for real reform within SGM than I do right now.
August 31st, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Jim,
Messy would probably another appropriate word. Often, when you take something apart, it looks like a big mess. But our Father knows how to put it all back together the way it should be. When this happens at SGM, will we know about it? Will you be telling us more? I don’t wish any harm for our brothers and sisters in SGM - how can we pray for the innocent bystanders who might be hurt by what is to come? What can we do for them?
August 31st, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Excellent post, PK. Thank you for emphasizing that God himself is the gospel. I’m happy you have the history to help provide perspective and institutional memory.
Funny you should use this scripture:
“I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live. It is not I, but Christ that lives in me… and this life that I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God… who loved me, and gave Himself, for me.”
…as people used to sing that many years ago, when PDI was just a gleam in Larry’s eye.
August 31st, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Ride on into battle, PK! And may God’s grace go before you.
August 31st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Excellent. Pk, thanks for your heart for the Lord and for change. Thank you for also being gracious as well as bold. You have the heart of a warrior, use it well.
August 31st, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I was floored by PK’s part of the post. I thought he was going to do a regular intro- “I’m PK” type of thing. What he delivered is the most God centered intro I’ve ever seen.
Have I mentioned we’re thrilled?
August 31st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
canary,
If the poo hits the fan, (I would still hope for God honoring resolutions), I’ll be posting.
I have no timeframe, and again, would hope that the various pastors involved would honor God with their actions.
I have a strong pragmatic streak. I would prefer the conviction of the Holy Spirit to work in the hearts of men. Unfortunately, we’ve seen what looks like the actions of men with a seared conscience over and over again.
I don’t care if they do the right thing because of increased scrutiny. This pattern of spiritual abuse has got to stop.
So, no news will be good news. Bad news will be big news.
This is really the last fair warning I can give. SGM pastors, no matter where you live, you should assume that your next victim is probably already talking to us. I will ask for your side of the story.
I’d respond quickly.
August 31st, 2008 at 8:55 pm
God is the Gospel…and I want my King back!
PK, Those words made me cry. That is why I have so much joy having moved on from SGM - because I have my King back!!! I want that for SGM too. It is a beautiful statement and would be a good motto for the site.
Also this statement:
“He is the reason for the hope that lives within us, and not because that life in this gated community we call church seems wonderful and comfortable.”
This means alot to me as well. Live in a gated community for too long and you become ill. One of the things I love about my new church is the constant encouragement to share our God, one on one, with those in our community. I never want to live in a gated community again! Sharing my faith is a new thing for me but God is working it in my heart and I am excited about it.
I am so glad to hear the pro-SGM heart. The church is God’s and I would never want to see it fail. I want God’s best for all of SGM.
Grateful,
BFly
August 31st, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Jim,
Thanks for clarifying. I hope enough folks know of this blog and the survivors one to get help if things go badly for their leaders. It will be the proverbial rug coming out from beneath them.
September 1st, 2008 at 12:53 am
Jim, will you tell us the august visitor statistics soon?
September 1st, 2008 at 1:23 am
Just did
September 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I too have greatly appreciated PK’s contribution to the conversation. I remember when you originally told your story. I wanted to read it again today and could not find it. would you please tell me where it is? Is it on the survivors site? Thanks.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:11 pm
PK, all I can say is…WOW!!! How fortunate for Jim and Carole to have you and Protestant Dame join them! What a blessing! I will be praying for you!
-Kindred
September 1st, 2008 at 3:26 pm
PK,
I think that makes four “WOWS!”. Let’s start a new grading system. You wrote a
“4 WOW” post! Anyone wish to make it 5?
You go, PK!
September 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pm
By the way Jim…you’re a cute old man. LOL.
(Commenting on your pic. That really is you, right?)
But then one would only expect such of the man who married the lovely Carole!
September 1st, 2008 at 9:32 pm
hehehe…love it!
Good job on getting a great voice on your blog Jim. I wonder what it will cost to recruit him away? <just kidding> - I’m loving this !!
Guy
September 1st, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Yep!… It’s really him, Kindred!
I’m truly blessed!
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 am
Wow. I am humbled by the positive response to the Jim-Carole-PK-PD partnership. Protestant Dame may not be a poster-commenter here, but her prayers and support mean everything to me. I was starting my own blog when Jim made me an offer I couldn’t refuse: A voice for SGM reform, coming from a member of SGM’s flock so that it could be heard among those who are SGM castaways.
I was really concerned I would be going off on a tangent with the whole Ivanhoe analogy, but it’s sincerely grafted on my soul.
When I was writing my portion of the “Change is Here to Stay” post, I had my headphones on and kept cranking up the volume as I was listening to an 80’s Christian playlist that is ever-growing in my iTunes player (here’s a sampling):
On the Fritz by Steve Taylor, about the ensuing and growing sphere of disasters that men/leaders losing their first love can create around them as a result… Love God, Hate Sin, which is Mylon LeFevre & Broken Heart’s beautiful (and rocking) simplification of one of the primary messages of Scripture… Wired for Sound, an amazing take by Michael W. Smith on the nonsense of carnal, man-centered and empty philosophy trying to extinguish the deep, rich purity of God’s truth… Let Me Be Broken is Bryan Duncan’s cry to his Creator to be humbled all over again (be careful what you cry for, Bryan!), to be moved by the social injustice and tragedies around him so that God can use him to reflect true justice and mercy (this song would be an outstanding code for a Christian superhero… or us!)… Computer Brains by Petra; there is simply nothing like Greg X. Volz’s verbal thrashing to get across a very simple concept the book of Proverbs tells us hundreds of times: “garbage in, garbage out”… Spinnin’ Round by DC Talk (yes, from their little-played but out-stan-ding, ground-break-ing 1988 debut) reminds of the joy and freedom I first experienced in Christ as He made me a new creation, and shortly thereafter my wanting to share that joy and soul-saving God with friends who were “spinnin’ round” in their earthly mudbath, their cycle of behavior that I saw was destroying them in this life and the next.
Old School… that’s me.
…pk
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:59 am
Hi singing cook:
I just realized I blathered on and on without answering your question.
Yes, part of my story is on the SGM Survivors site (not sure what posts)… not all of it, as I am not ready to share it all. Not a matter of pain so much as it is a matter of privacy at this point.
…pk
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
PK and Jim,
I was gone all day yesterday, so I’m catching up. Having an “insider” like you, PK, is an outstanding idea. Jim, Carole, again, such a great move. This expresses even more the heart of reform verses hatred that many accuse of us, here. So cool!
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:46 pm
canary,
In telling our story, I related how, in the early 90’s, we were part of a church that we loved, but it was a mega church, and the size of the youth group scared me. In looking for a new church, we were actually looking for a youth group, given the ages of our kids.
I said something like, “if I could have created a youth pastor in my mad scientist lab, I would have created Tim”.
That describes exactly how we feel about our partnership with PK.
The guy is the perfect addition to our team.
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:20 pm
“And, yes, this is a positive place. Imagine the good SG churches will do when the legalilsm is finally gone and their wonderful people are free to be their authentic selves; free to walk in their giftings and callings.”
Oh so many wonderful people at SG in my opinion (including my old leaders and Cj). some of the best people I’ve met in my life. I still miss many of them and still, after 7 years, nearly daily recognize some of the good fruit in my life from their good teachings.
September 7th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Hi there! I am very new to all these blog spots about SGM. Came upon them quite serendipitously. I was looking at an e-mail from our youth pastor and clicked on the church’s link to see if the hurricane had canceled the youth meeting. What came up on the screen was the SGM Survivors website. Wow! What an eye opener to find so very many people out there who have “been there, done that” in an SGM church. I probably know some of you too.
My husband and I began attending a church over 25 years ago that eventually became part of the SGM network. We attended that church for approx. 8 years during which Brent Detwiler was sent in to oversee our becoming part of PDI. Sometime during that 8th year we began to have some concerns about legalism and control issues in the leadership. We made an appointment with the pastor, told him we were leaving, shook hands, stood up and left. We were asked why we were leaving but my husband wisely said we didn’t want to get into it. I know our leaving hurt some people who couldn’t understand how two committed, engaged members of the church could just walk away. It took 2 years to find another church to attend and settle in. During that time it felt like we were going through a reverse of brainwashing. We talked to each other all the time about what had gone wrong and we talked to others who had left too.
Six years later we began to find ourselves hungry for more than we were getting at our little church so we began to think about finding another church. We eventually felt that God was leading us back into the SGM church we had left. When we returned it was great - people who we hadn’t seen or talked to in a long time were there to greet us, we got involved again and we began to enjoy the worship and “biblical” teaching. Suffice it to say that we have been reasonably happy and at peace about our decision to return to SGM. There have been things that have happened since our return that were not so great, like 3 pastors being dismissed and a couple of interns let go. I’ve also figured out thanks to this blog and others that some of the pastors sent out to do church plants have been let go, i.e., Keith Jacob and George Harrington. My husband and I have many questions about decisions that are made but don’t always feel comfortable asking them which is a shame since the little church we were in before never made us feel that way when we disagreed.
At this point, we are content to stay here because of our friends. We know that no church is perfect and the people in our caregroup, at least, seem to have pretty independent minds. Several of us recently just said “NO” to signing a membership commitment paper. I know many people in our church are not homeschooling any longer and many women are working outside the home. My husband and I will hopefully be leaving the area in a couple of years and don’t want to change churches before then. I believe we can agree to disagree with some of the ways things are done at SGM for now.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know there are some of us who are trying to think outside the box inside the SGM box. Good to know you all are out there and doing well in the Lord.
Mac
September 7th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Hi mac!
I am a fellow SGMer, don’t have long here today, but just wanted to welcome you… I’ll be on much more later in the week, with fits and spurts in between.
Take care and God Bless!
…pk
September 7th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Mac,
Welcome!
The path you’ve chosen is probably the best. I’m talking to a lot of people who are flying under the radar, as they’ve seen how well dissent is received in SGM.