Comments on: Just like Jim Elliot… http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/ a safe haven Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:49:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13844 Canary Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:49:47 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13844 The Missus,   I couldn't have said it better.  Good post.  :) The Missus,
 
I couldn’t have said it better.  Good post.  :)

]]> By: lightspeak http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13834 lightspeak Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:54:40 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13834 It truly is not the flesh we are battling! Though we do have to put names to the evil being done to properly gain insight to the specific issues, we do have to focus on the core problems. We come to Christ because in the end we long for Him. The Spirit He has imparted to us will cause us to find no substantive satisfaction in this world though we will lose our way as we go. It is painful to see others make their mistakes and tempting to coerce them when they lose their way. We are permitted to instruct, teach, suggest etc. but ultimately they must come of their own accord. If they are Christians they will come. When we attempt to manipulate in any way we only we are circumventing the organic processes the Lord has in place. Every thinking adult is fully responsible for their own choices and we must fully respect the sacredness of this freedom accorded by God. Not guilt nor pity nor fear nor threats will produce authentic love for Him and nothing less will satisfy the one who first loved us and will forever. I fully believe we are being instructed by the Scriptures to be committed to a local body. I believe it is the vehicle to live most functional and satisfying life  while we are here, but it is the Lord that leads our hearts and we must be free to make that choice. We come because we want to. There are seasons of  life come and go. We must resist the temptation to userp the unique position of the Holy Spirit in the lives of others. To use the contemporary term 'codependent'  is an apt adjective for this dynamic. We often busy ourselves with wanting to 'fix' others and escape the responsibilities of fixing ourselves or 'taking the log out of our own eye.' To find a highly functional church is indeed a challenge. We do need to have pastors. The marker of a great pastor is one who truly 'loves' the people. When a pastor truly loves the people, the primary feature will be relational and not authoritarian. If we find ourselves attracted to authoritarian type leadership we may have to think about why. If the issue is about a fear of intimacy we may choose to isolate in response to a bad experience. It only worsens the situation and we find ourselves in a reactionary mode unable to choose rationally and freely. Good choices are made when our perspective is aligned with what really is. That is the challenge folks! The most balanced truly 'loving,' pastor I have experienced is from   firstpresaugusta.org  'George Robertson'. His sermons are online weekly. He was my pastor for 4 years and the entire time I was there he spent his time building relationships with the people. While he speaks the truth boldly and articulately, he demonstrated by his actions that he had a profoundly healthy respect for the boundaries of individuals and trust for the Holy Spirit  in the lives of others. I'm not talking perfection, but we know when we are truly loved and love does 'cover the multitude of sins'. It's just an example that they do exist for those who may have lost hope of finding a Church. Check out his sermons. It's obvious that the American Church per se,  has lost it's way when you look at our culture and understand that we were the conscience of our culture just a short time ago. We are struggling but their are faithful servant leaders out there. The challenge is to find them.   Peace out!  lolol!! It truly is not the flesh we are battling! Though we do have to put names to the evil being done to properly gain insight to the specific issues, we do have to focus on the core problems.
We come to Christ because in the end we long for Him. The Spirit He has imparted to us will cause us to find no substantive satisfaction in this world though we will lose our way as we go. It is painful to see others make their mistakes and tempting to coerce them when they lose their way. We are permitted to instruct, teach, suggest etc. but ultimately they must come of their own accord. If they are Christians they will come. When we attempt to manipulate in any way we only we are circumventing the organic processes the Lord has in place. Every thinking adult is fully responsible for their own choices and we must fully respect the sacredness of this freedom accorded by God. Not guilt nor pity nor fear nor threats will produce authentic love for Him and nothing less will satisfy the one who first loved us and will forever.
I fully believe we are being instructed by the Scriptures to be committed to a local body. I believe it is the vehicle to live most functional and satisfying life  while we are here, but it is the Lord that leads our hearts and we must be free to make that choice. We come because we want to. There are seasons of  life come and go. We must resist the temptation to userp the unique position of the Holy Spirit in the lives of others. To use the contemporary term ‘codependent’  is an apt adjective for this dynamic. We often busy ourselves with wanting to ‘fix’ others and escape the responsibilities of fixing ourselves or ‘taking the log out of our own eye.’
To find a highly functional church is indeed a challenge. We do need to have pastors. The marker of a great pastor is one who truly ‘loves’ the people. When a pastor truly loves the people, the primary feature will be relational and not authoritarian. If we find ourselves attracted to authoritarian type leadership we may have to think about why. If the issue is about a fear of intimacy we may choose to isolate in response to a bad experience. It only worsens the situation and we find ourselves in a reactionary mode unable to choose rationally and freely. Good choices are made when our perspective is aligned with what really is. That is the challenge folks! The most balanced truly ‘loving,’ pastor I have experienced is from   firstpresaugusta.org  ’George Robertson’. His sermons are online weekly. He was my pastor for 4 years and the entire time I was there he spent his time building relationships with the people. While he speaks the truth boldly and articulately, he demonstrated by his actions that he had a profoundly healthy respect for the boundaries of individuals and trust for the Holy Spirit  in the lives of others. I’m not talking perfection, but we know when we are truly loved and love does ‘cover the multitude of sins’. It’s just an example that they do exist for those who may have lost hope of finding a Church. Check out his sermons.
It’s obvious that the American Church per se,  has lost it’s way when you look at our culture and understand that we were the conscience of our culture just a short time ago. We are struggling but their are faithful servant leaders out there. The challenge is to find them.   Peace out!  lolol!!

]]> By: musicman http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13827 musicman Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:28:06 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13827 Randy- I'm sorry for all your going through, if you ever want to talk more about it, stop by again. Until then...peace to you Randy-
I’m sorry for all your going through, if you ever want to talk more about it, stop by again.
Until then…peace to you

]]> By: The Missus http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13825 The Missus Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:13:18 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13825 Canary, I appreciate your heart for Brent.  In spite of everything, I'll always be grateful for the positive way that some of his preaching has influenced my life and I so feel for him and his family and pray for them often.  Even though I believe that the decision to step down was the correct one, I take absolutely no pleasure in this whatsoever.  I pray with all my heart that those who have been hurt by Brent will know without a doubt that the Lord is their vindication and will find their healing and restoration in Him.  I'm not sure what man can do at this point. The Missus Canary,

I appreciate your heart for Brent.  In spite of everything, I’ll always be grateful for the positive way that some of his preaching has influenced my life and I so feel for him and his family and pray for them often.  Even though I believe that the decision to step down was the correct one, I take absolutely no pleasure in this whatsoever.  I pray with all my heart that those who have been hurt by Brent will know without a doubt that the Lord is their vindication and will find their healing and restoration in Him.  I’m not sure what man can do at this point.

The Missus

]]> By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13820 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:40:23 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13820 :-)  Hope you and yours are doing well too.  I am pretty much stuck in the "Brady Bunch era."  Awe, the days of innocence, decency and common sense.  What has happened to us, as a nation and culture?  I ask rhetorically. I am peace-ing out! :-) :-)   Hope you and yours are doing well too.  I am pretty much stuck in the “Brady Bunch era.”  Awe, the days of innocence, decency and common sense.  What has happened to us, as a nation and culture?  I ask rhetorically.

I am peace-ing out! :-)

]]> By: Canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13817 Canary Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:14:20 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13817 G.D., Hee-hee.  Yes, "chill out" would be the equivilant of the Brady Bunch era for "peace out".  Ugh, I'm showing my decades.  Ho-hum... Hope you and your family are doing well!  :) G.D.,
Hee-hee.  Yes, “chill out” would be the equivilant of the Brady Bunch era for “peace out”.  Ugh, I’m showing my decades.  Ho-hum…

Hope you and your family are doing well!  :)

]]> By: Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13815 Jim Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:54:24 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13815 <p>Randy,</p> <p>Now I see where you are coming from. My children were never told that they were not Christians, but 2 of them were not treated well.</p> <p>My wife and I were high profile in our little ex sgc. We made enemies just by leaving, and you can only imagine what I've heard since I started this blog 17 months ago.</p> Randy,

Now I see where you are coming from. My children were never told that they were not Christians, but 2 of them were not treated well.

My wife and I were high profile in our little ex sgc. We made enemies just by leaving, and you can only imagine what I’ve heard since I started this blog 17 months ago.

]]> By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13814 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:53:30 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13814 Randy, We would love to have you walk with us.  Don't isolate yourself ; we are your brothers and sisters, we are the church!  Some of us go to the "box" on the corner at 10pm on Sunday morning.  Some of us don't.  Some of us are intense; some of us go with the flow.  Stick around!   We won't always agree with you, as you won't with us, but your ideas and views are welcome for what it's worth. :-) Randy,
We would love to have you walk with us.  Don’t isolate yourself ; we are your brothers and sisters, we are the church!  Some of us go to the “box” on the corner at 10pm on Sunday morning.  Some of us don’t.  Some of us are intense; some of us go with the flow.  Stick around!   We won’t always agree with you, as you won’t with us, but your ideas and views are welcome for what it’s worth. :-)

]]> By: Randy Ruth http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13813 Randy Ruth Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:42:51 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13813 Jim, No offense take and I understand you don't stand with SGM.  Why am I in this state?  Because,,,,, my family has been put down.  Have your children been told they don't have Jesus with them by a slime ball pastor?  Threats have been made and if that is what SMG is about they are just like every other major church.  They have lost their way and have become evil.  They have forgotten who they serve. I have also read every word of this blog.  Every word. Enough about this corrupt organization.  You all sound like great people here and you will surly find your way if you leave SGM behind.  I should have never posted because people only see what they want to see.  Be safe and trust only yourself and Jesus.  And,,,,,, oh yes,  he is a narcissist. Good by and I wish you all well. Jim,
No offense take and I understand you don’t stand with SGM.  Why am I in this state?  Because,,,,, my family has been put down.  Have your children been told they don’t have Jesus with them by a slime ball pastor?  Threats have been made and if that is what SMG is about they are just like every other major church.  They have lost their way and have become evil.  They have forgotten who they serve.
I have also read every word of this blog.  Every word.
Enough about this corrupt organization.  You all sound like great people here and you will surly find your way if you leave SGM behind.  I should have never posted because people only see what they want to see.  Be safe and trust only yourself and Jesus.  And,,,,,, oh yes,  he is a narcissist.
Good by and I wish you all well.

]]> By: Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13812 Jim Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:31:29 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13812 <p>Randy,</p> <p>I don't "have" a "pastor" in the modern use of the term. I apologized for the meds statement, and that stands. It was stupid.</p> <p>Please tell us who you are addressing and what you are trying to say.</p> Randy,

I don’t “have” a “pastor” in the modern use of the term. I apologized for the meds statement, and that stands. It was stupid.

Please tell us who you are addressing and what you are trying to say.

]]> By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13811 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:31:06 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13811 Canary:  Is "peace out" anything like chill out?  I am just wondering. :-) Canary:  Is “peace out” anything like chill out?  I am just wondering. :-)

]]> By: Canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13810 Canary Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:25:05 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13810 Jim and G.D., It seems that Randy Ruth hasn't read much of the blog.  He seems to think we are <em>following </em>Brent.  Talk about misinformed.  Read the blog, new posters, before giving your opinion! In defense, Brent is neither a "narcissistic nut case", not does he "throw stones".  Talk like that is ridiculous, and makes us all look like nutcases.  He and SGM leadership have chosen a path of  doctrine that is off the beaten path of the true gospel of peace.  They have introduced and nurtured the leaven that grows within the church, the leaven that is so harmful to the saints and to the purity of the gospel of Jesus Christ.  They<em> sincerely</em> believe they are right, just as we all thought we were when we were a part of their movement.  We were once where they are now.  Let us pray for our brethren, and continue, in love, to speak the truth of what we have seen.  That's all I'm saying. To Randy Ruth:  Peace out.  Why not introduce yourself to Jim and explain where you have come from?  We're listening... Jim and G.D.,

It seems that Randy Ruth hasn’t read much of the blog.  He seems to think we are following Brent.  Talk about misinformed.  Read the blog, new posters, before giving your opinion!

In defense, Brent is neither a “narcissistic nut case”, not does he “throw stones”.  Talk like that is ridiculous, and makes us all look like nutcases.  He and SGM leadership have chosen a path of  doctrine that is off the beaten path of the true gospel of peace.  They have introduced and nurtured the leaven that grows within the church, the leaven that is so harmful to the saints and to the purity of the gospel of Jesus Christ.  They sincerely believe they are right, just as we all thought we were when we were a part of their movement.  We were once where they are now.  Let us pray for our brethren, and continue, in love, to speak the truth of what we have seen.  That’s all I’m saying.

To Randy Ruth:  Peace out.  Why not introduce yourself to Jim and explain where you have come from?  We’re listening…

]]> By: Randy Ruth http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13809 Randy Ruth Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:20:44 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13809 Grace-Really? I have no passion in all of this.  I don't look at events as I want to see them but from and outside position trying to see truth. Funny thing, I didn't accuse Jim of needing meds.  I'm glad he is one of the good guys.     Grace-Really?
I have no passion in all of this.  I don’t look at events as I want to see them but from and outside position trying to see truth.
Funny thing, I didn’t accuse Jim of needing meds.  I’m glad he is one of the good guys.
 
 

]]> By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13808 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:13:13 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13808 Randy,  I love your passion, but Jim really is one of the good guys.  You many want to extend a little more grace--really! Randy,  I love your passion, but Jim really is one of the good guys.  You many want to extend a little more grace–really!

]]> By: Randy Ruth http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13807 Randy Ruth Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:03:01 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13807 I am in need of meds?   Who are the ones following the teachings of a narcissistic nut case who makes his living off of the backs of working families?  One who tells them their children can't date and court.  I have a feeling we could learn a lot from the courting habits of Pastor Detwiler.  Just another pastor who is always the first to cast the stone.   Does SGM provide it's members with a  financial statement with an open accounting of what is being paid to it's pastors?   Very well said Jim.  Spoken just like another sheep on the way to becoming a mutton dinner.  Make sure your head stays deep in the sand while your pastors steel from you.     I am in need of meds?
 
Who are the ones following the teachings of a narcissistic nut case who makes his living off of the backs of working families?  One who tells them their children can’t date and court.  I have a feeling we could learn a lot from the courting habits of Pastor Detwiler.  Just another pastor who is always the first to cast the stone.
 
Does SGM provide it’s members with a  financial statement with an open accounting of what is being paid to it’s pastors?
 
Very well said Jim.  Spoken just like another sheep on the way to becoming a mutton dinner.  Make sure your head stays deep in the sand while your pastors steel from you.
 
 

]]> By: Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13806 Jim Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:50:10 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13806 <p>GDfS-maybe. Maybe it's me, but I'm having a hard time tracking with Randy.</p> <p>Randy, I'm sorry for my sarcastic response-could you break it down for me a little?</p> GDfS-maybe. Maybe it’s me, but I’m having a hard time tracking with Randy.

Randy, I’m sorry for my sarcastic response-could you break it down for me a little?

]]> By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13805 Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:11:28 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13805 Jim, you think a meds adjustment is in order here? :-) Jim, you think a meds adjustment is in order here? :-)

]]> By: Jim http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13804 Jim Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:31:49 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13804 <p>Randy,</p> <p>Interesting post. Might want to adjust the meds, as you seem to slip in and out of coherent thought. Mostly out.</p> Randy,

Interesting post. Might want to adjust the meds, as you seem to slip in and out of coherent thought. Mostly out.

]]> By: Randy Ruth http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13803 Randy Ruth Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:54:47 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13803 You people are pathetic.   It's now wonder you get ripped by people like Brent D.  You can't run your own life so you all get in line with the rest of the hamsters for your turn on the wheel.   Pastor D is no different than any other leach church leader.  Swaggart, Baker, Jim Jones, they are all the same.  Find some sucker and run their life and please pay in advance today for your salvation tomorrow.   I am so shocked about what my Pastor did to us.  Where have you all been for the last 25 years?  Have you learned nothing?   Forget about Brent D. Man up and take command of your own life.  He doesn't need you and you sure don't need and can't afford him.  Brent D is the only man alive who knows what the Lord wants you to do?  How weak is that?  All of you can read, you know what the print says.  So step up and stop following losers and build a life no matter what you believe.   Follow me I will save your sorry life for 2.5 percent that's about the best deal you will get.  Pay 20 years in advance and for a one time payment I will get you into heaven and knock off another 1 percent.  Eternal salvation for 1.5 percent.  Try and get Pastor D to give you a better deal then that.   Brent will have no trouble finding someone else to follow him off some cliff.  Brent might find more money working at a place like ENRON then you will never have to hear from him again. You people are pathetic.
 
It’s now wonder you get ripped by people like Brent D.  You can’t run your own life so you all get in line with the rest of the hamsters for your turn on the wheel.
 
Pastor D is no different than any other leach church leader.  Swaggart, Baker, Jim Jones, they are all the same.  Find some sucker and run their life and please pay in advance today for your salvation tomorrow.
 
I am so shocked about what my Pastor did to us.  Where have you all been for the last 25 years?  Have you learned nothing?
 
Forget about Brent D. Man up and take command of your own life.  He doesn’t need you and you sure don’t need and can’t afford him.  Brent D is the only man alive who knows what the Lord wants you to do?  How weak is that?  All of you can read, you know what the print says.  So step up and stop following losers and build a life no matter what you believe.
 
Follow me I will save your sorry life for 2.5 percent that’s about the best deal you will get.  Pay 20 years in advance and for a one time payment I will get you into heaven and knock off another 1 percent.  Eternal salvation for 1.5 percent.  Try and get Pastor D to give you a better deal then that.
 
Brent will have no trouble finding someone else to follow him off some cliff.  Brent might find more money working at a place like ENRON then you will never have to hear from him again.

]]> By: Canary http://sgmrefuge.com/2008/08/13/brent-detwiler-is-just-like-jim-elliot/#comment-13801 Canary Sun, 25 Oct 2009 16:45:32 +0000 http://sgmrefuge.com/?p=102#comment-13801 Shanked, fired, forced to resign...it's all the same.  I said, "<strong>Yet, his controlling ways damaged many.  If he learns to understand this, perhaps this will all turn out for good.  That is something we can all pray for."   </strong>I don't excuse Brent's behavior, nor do I excuse my own while I was involved with SGM.  I do, however, think that it is important to have compassion for someone who has fallen from great heights.  If this forces Brent to question his belief system, then it is the Lord's discipline that he is under.  It is a fearful thing to come under the hand of the Living God.  This should move us with compassion to pray. As I said earlier, I was pastored by Brent for many years, and was completely, utterly devestated in the end.  I know his ways.  I am glad he is removed from the position that allowed him to control and harm so many.  However, love must motivate us.  If we loose the ability to have compassion for those who harmed us, especially while they are being disciplined by the Lord, then we become like the SGM machine which trampled so many saints.  God forbid! If this situation is just another pastor stepping down to be "adjusted", who will then become some sort of leader again as he cooperates with the agenda, then my compassion is mis-spent.  That has yet to be proven.  So I will continue to pray for Brent and his family.  Perhaps I can do that because I am past the anger, and most of the pain from my experience is gone.  Now, I want to see the leaven purged from the church.  God help us all to see that day! Shanked, fired, forced to resign…it’s all the same. 

I said, “Yet, his controlling ways damaged many.  If he learns to understand this, perhaps this will all turn out for good.  That is something we can all pray for.”   I don’t excuse Brent’s behavior, nor do I excuse my own while I was involved with SGM.  I do, however, think that it is important to have compassion for someone who has fallen from great heights.  If this forces Brent to question his belief system, then it is the Lord’s discipline that he is under.  It is a fearful thing to come under the hand of the Living God.  This should move us with compassion to pray.

As I said earlier, I was pastored by Brent for many years, and was completely, utterly devestated in the end.  I know his ways.  I am glad he is removed from the position that allowed him to control and harm so many.  However, love must motivate us.  If we loose the ability to have compassion for those who harmed us, especially while they are being disciplined by the Lord, then we become like the SGM machine which trampled so many saints.  God forbid!

If this situation is just another pastor stepping down to be “adjusted”, who will then become some sort of leader again as he cooperates with the agenda, then my compassion is mis-spent.  That has yet to be proven.  So I will continue to pray for Brent and his family.  Perhaps I can do that because I am past the anger, and most of the pain from my experience is gone.  Now, I want to see the leaven purged from the church.  God help us all to see that day!

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