That, dear friends, is what “duty” is…ugh.

John, hearing a man take up for us is so refreshing.  Like Ellie said, whatta guy!

DB, it is IKKY!! I think of a mechanic’s garage when I hear that term – “servicing” is for CARS….

Yayyyyyyyyyyyy, John!! Whatta guy!!!

I don’t make a good SGM wife, sorry, I’m not quiet demure, freshened up, and I don’t service my husband nor does he want to be serviced. Just the term is ikky.

And, do caregroup leaders just pick bad books. I remember in the 80’s reading a wretched rag entitled, “Creative Counterpart,” by Linda Dillow. She couldn’t even tell the reader (in the first edition,) that if her husband orders her to have an abortion to say no. No, she goes on and on ad tedium about how you could just please him more, give him attnetion, and this is almost if not a direct quote, “we can be creative if we try hard enough.”

Just trust me when I say the bile rises in my throat.

But it’s a reflection of women in the eyes of patrists. Equal in worth and different in roles rings true like separate but equal in the Jim Crow south. Yeah, would you want to send your kids to a “colored,” school or take a dump in the “colored,” bathroom? I seriously doubt it well, what have the women been offered when the men get to have all the fun?  (crickets chirping………)

Thanks.  You are a true gentleman in how you post.  It is also encouraging to know that any of us had some small part in helping even one person recognize the controlling leadership they were under.  I also, as a woman, appreciated the presepective you showed us in your post about how women are treated.  It is nice to have a man voice the things we women have been saying for a while.  The treatment we were subject to made me feel “dirty”, without understanding why.  It as quite a horrible feeling.

Julie said, “Though SGM told him what he wanted in a wife, deep down he wanted a real woman.  And that’s exactly what he’s got now, and we are both much much happier both in the bedroom and out.  And might I add I now have a real man!   He doesn’t scamper around at the foot of any man with his tail between his legs anymore.  He certainly doesn’t defend ‘manly’ leaders against injured women and children.”

Right on, sister!  I had the same experience with my husband.  It finally “clicked” on what he really needed in me, and vice versa.  That only happened after we left the controlling influences we were under. 

I LOVE being married to him, 25 years in April.  We have true companionship based on love and respect for each other.  I find we do not have to discuss “authority” or “submission”.  We spend alot more time talking about God, having fun together.  Why, he is such a blessed man because I love to watch football with him. 

Last night, I was even watching a bit of UFC wrestling with him.  He was explaining what the moves were, who was winning, etc.  Of course, I was getting a back rub during the show, so I probably would have watched anything at that point.  But it was really fun.  There is such a balance, and we enjoy each other.  So different from the old days in our controlling church (I will add, to be fair, that we learned some good things about marriage and child-rearing, back before things got too controlling.  For that, I am grateful).

(Betsy Ricucci writes) Before I was married, I never left the house looking bad . . . but you should have seen me in the house!  I didn’t bother freshening up, wearing makeup, or fixing my hair.  And I’m afraid I took those habits with me into marriage.  It took a close friend’s example and encouragement to help me change.  If I want my husband to desire me, I need to look desirable.  These things have become important to me because I want to treat Gary with real respect.
 
Women often pay less attention to their appearance after they get married.  Yet our appearance is more important now than ever.  Most of our husbands work in an environment where they are surrounded by women striving to look attractive.  We need to look attractive when they leave for work and when they come home.  Attractive undergarments and nightwear are also important.  It takes effort to look good, especially if you have small children.  There will inevitably be those crazy days when you barely get out of your robe.  But on the whole we need to attend to our appearance.  This is a tangible and meaningful way to express love and respect for our husbands. – Love That Lasts, p. 149 (emphasis mine)

There are a lot of red flags in that passage – and in the entire book – but I was particularly struck by the comment about attractive women working with husbands in the workplace. As though it’s some sort of competition to keep one’s husband’s attention. You must be sexier than the women your husband work with, otherwise . . . it’s never said explicitly, but the obvious implication is that he will stray if you don’t keep your appearance up.

The lines about wearing attractive “underwear and nightwear” line up with what Julie said about how wives were told to shop for lingerie, etc. And the passage clearly implies that wearing makeup around the house is the godly thing to do. Ugh. It really is a 50s fantasy.

FF said:  “I don’t think we need to fight against Matthew. We were all just like him at one point or another. What we need to do is pray that the Holy Spirit will remove the blinders from his eyes so that he can stop judging the messengers and start looking critically at the message here — which I think we can all safely say is a warning.”
 
Hummm….  Fighting against Matthew…  Pray….   Ok… I’m not trying to trivialize the sentiment.  And I respect what you are advocating.  Is there a spiritual element to this ongoing saga?  Of course.  By all means… pray.  I’m a faith man and can join the intercessions with the best of them.
 
But here is the thing.  The whole of the New Testament was written to influence that very Holy Ghost inspired revelation to the minds of men.  Every book (This is me talking off the top of my head but I’m pretty sure I can make this scholastic case) was written in response to—some kind of–thinking.
 
If the Holy Spirit was some magic fairy dust to correct bad human thinking… then why write the books?   Praying is not sufficient to the task, and in my Never-to-be-humble-opinion usually an excuse for intellectual passivity, and an unwillingness to make effective arguments. (Not an accusation to you Freedom Fighter, but a general observation)
 
Whatever, men have been charged with the intellectual defense of the Anointed Jesus and the Kingdom of God.
 
The Holy Spirit is a SOURCE of knowledge (like the senses are a source of knowledge)  But the mind is the point of integration of said knowledge.  Logic is the practice of intellectual discipline, the exercise of intellectual Character.  Without it Men are lost. 
 
(I have a lot to say about his particular subject so it would be easy for me to Geek out on this conversation… )
 
Let me sum by saying the very battle we are in is a battle for the minds of men.  There is only one way to deal with men in this lifetime: Force—Ideas or Violence.  
 
So when I fight I am aiming an argument at people’s head.  What I have no patience for is folk who want to aim an argument at MY head and then absolve themselves of thinking when they are responded to.
 
This is so VERY SGM.  The Rank and Filers of the movement will bring out their intellectual pitch forks and pop guns in defense of these “Great men of Character,”  and then get all squeamish when they are confronted when someone responds with a Pershing missile.  “Oh you hit too hard.  Oh you are bitter.  Oh, you play to rough! Oh, I’m to tired.  Oh, I’m too busy.”   Which is really code for “Oh #$@! I have no clue what I’m talking about!”
 
And here is the thing. They have an obligation to know what they are talking about—every  single last one of them.  They don’t get to say: “I was just following orders.”  That didn’t work at Nuremburg and it won’t work on that last day.

There is a passage from Gary and Betsy Ricucci’s book on marriage that basically says JUST that – that wives have to keep themselves attractive and service their husbands because there are women out there on the prowl trying to snare them with their looks, etc.  I’ll see if I can dig it up.

Again, 
Just Wondering

Thank you for your kinds words, before and now.  I haven’t been but a click away following along and talking to folk on the phone since this whole thing got rolling.  You all are far from inept at commentating on the content of SGM treatment.  If you were… they would still be ignoring what is coming off the blogs.  They are not ignoring the blogs precisely because so many people are voicing the same commentary in their own unique way. 
 
And what is more… it is the very individual human factor that is actually starting to unravel the bondage that so many folk have lived in. As this thread and sundry posts attest… did not one of our own have major breakthrough in her thinking because of a side conversation?  That is very powerful in my mind.  Each contribution to this conversation has served to unravel this entire Gordian knot. 
 
For heaven sake…. I took this cause to the forefront years ago… and suffered the same “Am I crazy!  Is it just me?” syndrome.  Hearing the stories and realizing the truth has been essential to my own sanity and health.  So whatever my particular skill set… never forget you all have done great work in bearing your soul and your mind to public scrutiny.  Trust me… this has major implications for the future.  I contend that SGM is the warm up round for this spiritual tyranny. 
 
(I will be posting more about this on my site (maybe somewhere else) soon)

“One last thing to all who do read these posts, I use my real name and these are my comments.  
Anonymity has no place in my life as a man in Christ.

So what I am saying is that sometimes the truth is being told, just not all of it.”

Matt,

I wonder if you might be persuaded, for the sake of clarity for all reading, and not just those in Gilbert who know you, to reduce your “anonymity” and to tell “all of the truth” regarding your identity as it pertains to church leadership.

Just Wondering
 

Sounds like you are seeing a “winner”!  Trust is so important in a relationship.