I’ll be going through Dave Harvey’s “Polity” booklet soon. This is part of Sovereign Grace Ministries “Perspectives” series, and should be considered their official statement on their position.
You can download a copy here
Many are aware of recent changes to the SGM leadership structure, and many are not. It seems that each SGC has handled this is a different way. I recently spoke with one cgl who was completely unaware, while one SGC posted the changes on their website. I’ve spoken with a SGC pastor who informed his cgl’s of the changes as soon as they were final. The new structure can be found below.
Leadership Team
* C.J. Mahaney
* Dave Harvey
* Jeff Purswell
* Pat Ennis
* Joshua Harris
Apostolic Team - providing care to our pastors and churches
* Dave Harvey (Team Leader)
* Aron Osborne (Northeast & Eastern Canada)
* Kenneth Maresco (Maryland, Virginia)
* Gene Emerson (Mid-Atlantic)
* Danny Jones (South)
* Rick Gamache (Midwest)
* Craig Cabaniss (Midwest & Southwest)
* Steve Shank (West and Western Canada)
* Pete Greasely (International)
* Regional Team Leaders (RTLs) help apostolic team members provide care to a smaller set of churches.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I know that there are plenty of ways that the following analogy breaks down, so this is more comedy than anything. But every bit of humor has a grain of truth, no?
This sure looks like:
Pope (CJ)
Cardinals (Leadership Team)
Bishops (Apostles)
Senior Pastor (Monsignor)
July 15th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Looks pretty accurate to me, EA!
July 15th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
That’s about right EA.
Except the Pope is elected….
July 15th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Does anyone know why Brent D. is no longer on either leadership team? That is very surprising. He was really in thick with the head guys. What happened?
July 15th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
It would be interesting to see much of the movement of all the pastors, etc. How their children were strategically placed in churches etc. I think if more people were aware of the movement, they would see it isn’t the Spirit of God acting at all, but man serving man.
I’m not an old timer (PDI days) and have not been in the SGM loop as long as many of you (thanks the LOrd!) but I have seen a pattern emerge since reading these blogs in March. It does seem that the movements of pastors, displacement of pastors, etc IS strategic and well thought out.
Now some may take no issue with this if they believe it’s OK for SGM leadership to do what they will. But I think most would take offense to their pastor being ripped away from them with little or no explanation. I see it coming in my own former SGM church where the pastor has been for years. With this new guy coming in next year after Pastor college (they have already decided where he is going and he hasn’t even BEGUN pastor’s college!) I think that is quite presumptuous on their part. Very man-centered and Spirit quenching.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
I see what you’re saying. In the PDI days, CJ spread this saying around to the churches: “Constant change is here to stay.” I think they were getting us ready for all the strategic moves that would happen. There was no concern given to relationships that would be broken up. We just had to obey and trust their decisions.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
spreading phrases…yeah, classic SGM tactic.
How long do you think they will sit back and read these blogs? I’m so glad Kris, Guy, Travis, Jim and Carole had the courage to start them and keep them going. Lord willing, more people will find them. I am amazed at how many already have. And even if the word isn’t getting out to SGM members, it is to others, and SGM’s name is becoming synonymous with “shepherding”..
someone call Al Mohler, Piper, Ligon, and Mark Dever and inform them, since they don’t have a clue yet, or choose not to accept it.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Well, someone is doing some censoring. I guess there is a full time PR team. I found this while googling:
http://209.85.215.104/search?q.....&gl=us
When I went to the original, it was GONE. Here’s the original below in case they censor the cache. That’s pitiful how they try to erase any criticisms!
…………………………………………………………..
Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?
Filed under: CCK, Church, Religion, Theology by SVD
You never know what you are going to find when you search the Keywords on your Google Analytics page, but I was a little surprised to find the phrase
July 16th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Ellie,
That’s pretty funny. They left a portion of their post up (May 9 entry), but the post itself, and those oh so dangerous comments have been deleted.
I’m assuming the blog host did this on his own. They opened a door, and didn’t like what came in.
This stuff is not for the faint of heart, folks. Imagine if CJ’s blog allowed comments.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Aw, CJ couldn’t handle it. ROFL!
July 16th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Ellie,
That was interesting reading.
The thing that stood out to me was that the explanation of why these churches are called “cults” isn’t really why they are called cults.
In the Oxford English Dictionary, a cult is defined as: a system of religious worship directed towards a particular person or object. If you want we can go general, and say that all authoritarian type churches who have the kind of set-up where one man is at the top, where church members are told to obey and submit without room to disagree, that they need a mediator (in place of Jesus), men who “stand in the very stead of God) are cult-like. It is not necessarily the practices such as having lots of kids or women not working outside the home that makes a church cult-like. It is the control aspects, and the temptation because of this control that cause members to idolize their leaders. Let’s face it, if you can’t make your own life decisions without gaining “permission”, as has happened in some SGM churches, their is some serious mind control going on.
I say it again - if you sign a membership contract with a church like this, you are signing away your freedom in Christ.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
If I might add:
I have two personal experiences that underline what I’ve said above.
Both were during a PDI Celebration event, shortly after the Refreshing that went through the churches. I remember seeing Larry T. in the audience, so it was just after he’d been demoted. The room was full of believers worshipping the Lord. Suddenly, a sense of something deeper seemed to wash over us all. I could tell in my own spirit that the Lord was calling for something from us, maybe repentance. There was a definite soberness that came upon us. To my surprise and dismay, CJ came to the mic and said that we were not going to go there. He obviously sensed what was happening. However, he discouraged us from our soberness by saying that now wasn’t the time to be sad. He wanted us to go in a different direction, or words to that effect. Immediately, the Spirit of the Lord lifted. Whatever He was about to give us was lost.
The second thing happened minutes later. CJ said to us all: “I’m tired of being told I’m in the way. I’m not afraid to lead.”
I wonder to this day what the Lord would have done if a man had not decided to “stand in the very stead of God” for us.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I am curious as to who had been telling CJ that he was in the way…
July 16th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Me, too. I suppose he’d been told that by other leaders or members. Honest, those were his exact words. I remember because they shocked me so (not to mention the fact that’d he’d basically shooed the Holy Spirit away - it was the first time I realized that PDI leadership was choosing to end the Refreshing - later it happened in the Charolotte church). I was naive at the time. I thought the leaders I followed welcomed the Lord’s leading of His people. Boy, was I wrong. I guess they really do think they “stand in the very stead of God”.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Canary, your story sent chills up and down my spine.
Just in whose way was CJ?
And, if I think about it, things went from questionable to just plain bad when CJ scored his coup in the 1990’s.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Okay, this is just a theory. I’ve wondered about it for a while. I don’t think it is good to put a generally prophetic man in charge. CJ use to be able to express what was on the Lord’s heart with genuine love and quite a bit of humor. I would go away from his teachings with a newly envisioned heart for the Lord. CJ was a teacher who could grab you and make you really think about the Real and Living God. I could even imagine that the Lord had such affection for CJ, who could make even God laugh with pleasure. But CJ could also tell us what was on the Lord’s heart with such fervency. We couldn’t help but be moved.
Anyway, the reason I think that a prophetic man should not be in charge is because, if you see clearly what is on God’s heart for the people, the temptation to enforce obedience to this is too great. A prophet (as CJ used to be called) is to share the heart of the Lord, not force people into compliance. That is where Larry did so well in balancing the PDI ministry. He and CJ worked so well together. Of course, there can be control problems in other aspects of the church. I’m not excluding those. It is just that a prophetic ministry should not lead the church. There is an order to protect God’s people from the misuse of authortiy we see today. When a propet sees how things should be, his vision becomes black and white. It should be this way, he thinks. If he is given ultimate power to make his vision happen, there is a problem with balance and, ultimately, the desire to control the outcome.
I don’t know that CJ is recognized as being prophetic anymore, but I remember when he was.
July 17th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Canary said:
” have two personal experiences that underline what I’ve said above.
Both were during a PDI Celebration event, shortly after the Refreshing that went through the churches. I remember seeing Larry T. in the audience, so it was just after he’d been demoted. The room was full of believers worshipping the Lord. Suddenly, a sense of something deeper seemed to wash over us all. I could tell in my own spirit that the Lord was calling for something from us, maybe repentance. There was a definite soberness that came over the people. To my surprise and dismay, CJ came to the mic and said that we were not going to go there. He obviously sensed what was happening. However, he discouraged us from our soberness by saying that now wasn’t the time to be sad. He wanted us to go in a different direction, or words to that effect. Immediately, the Spirit of the Lord lifted. Whatever He was about to give us was lost.
The second thing happened minutes later. CJ said to us all: “I’m tired of being told I’m in the way. I’m not afraid to lead.”
I wonder to this day what the Lord would have done if a man had not decided to “stand in the very stead of God” for us.”
Canary
This sounds really bad that Mahaney would do this. It seems like SGM has reaped the consequences of this quenching the Spirit ever since.
With regard to your more recent post, Mahaney is a much better exhorter/motivator vs. a teacher of the Scripture. He is also more a reader of books than a reader of The Book.
I think you are right that someone in a prophetic call might not be the best to be in a leadership position.
July 17th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Thanks Steve240,
It’s something I’ve thought for a while. Just not sure CJ can be called “prophetic” anymore, which is a shame, because he had a true gift.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Canary,
I think we’re seeing the same thing in retrospect regarding the Larry/CJ balance. Yes, there were problems within the PDI org., I guess there are always problems within a large org. But the good outweighed the bad (at least that’s the way we perceived it.)
When Larry’s presence in that diad was lost, CJ filled the vacume. Any mechanism for checks and balances was lost. I didn’t see it at the time, but that was when things really went bad in PDI land.
I’m still somewhat shocked by the events you mention at the Celebration service.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:53 am
It’s probably still on tape somewhere. I used to have some Celebration tapes, but they’re long gone now. :/
July 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
What surprised me about the comments CJ made at this Celebration was that I heard no one else speaking about the oddness of it, although my husband and I, and two of our friends did discuss it. If people in the audience disagreed, they didn’t show it. Maybe not everybody understood what was happening, but CJ certainly did. Did any other leaders step forward? Nope. I have to add to this that I always had high regard for CJ’s love of the Lord. You could tell there was an intimacy between them. Where has that gone? I don’t know him personally so I can only speculate, but as John Imel said here once, the ministy reflects the man. To me it’s very sad, because CJ was once truly a man passionate for the Lord (instead of doctrine or church building). We need men and women to have that passion, or first love for the Lord in the Body today, especially in leadership. Maybe if there had been women leaders allowed, the move into a corporate, less loving-like organization could have been avoided. Women would have added a balance. Remember, when the men were hiding away after Jesus’ death, mourning the end of a vision, the women were down at the tomb mourning the death of the Lord. I will add that I mean no offense to men, nor am I a feminist. I just see that there is a need for a balance in the church on gifting and in gender so that the totallity of who God is can be shown to the world.
Ellie, I can’t remember the exact year of that Celebration. It was somewhere between 1995 - 1997. Since it was during worship, it might not even be on a tape. Oh well, that would have been great evidence. Maybe others reading this will remember and add their voice to mine.
DB,
I agree that when Larry was ousted, any remaining balance was lost, and the swing towards what we see today began. I will also add that the loss of Evangelists such as Larry, Che Ahn, and others left PDI off kilter. It really does help to have that history with the organization to look back on. The changes happened so slowly and almost silently. At least we can see the mistakes, and prayerfully avoid them in our personal lives. That’s a blessing. But it still saddens me when I remember what use to be, and compare it to what it is today. Although others will disagree, I still don’t think SGM abuses are intentional. Something has blinded most of these men, something terrible. And in their blindness, they are harming the sheep. I understand there are exceptions, and I pray God will use these men to influence SGM.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Ok…. Ellie… you are the Queen o’the Web. I humbly bow to your googling skills. So what other gems of the blogisphere have you found?
July 18th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
My lips are sealed.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
““I’m tired of being told I’m in the way. I’m not afraid to lead.””
Since when has anyone every accused CJ of being afraid to lead? Though, now that I think about it, maybe he oughta have more fear so he’d be more careful with those he leads.