There’s one author that he seems to lean on heavily, but ends up with a different conclusion than that author.

More on this to come…

I’m reading Leap over a Wall:

Very accurate assessment.

My hope for reform within SGM comes first from my hope in God.

My hope for reform within SGM regarding what role man will play in that reform is not really reform from within. My prayer is that the evangelical heavy hitters that CJ runs with, and others who he would like to run with, would smell the smoke.

In 3 weeks we received 45K visitors with 12k uniques? That’s pretty crazy, and I’m still saving my good stuff.

I believe the time is ripe, as CJ has never been so concerned with image as he is right now.

So, I’m not praying that CJ will call me.

I want to speak with Piper, Grudem, Mohler, MacArthur, etc.

If the evangelical reformed mafia would collectively apply pressure to SGM, I think things would change.

None of these men believe that the episcopal form of government is necessary to protect your doctrine or the sheep. Their personal experience alone would trump CJ’s argument before they ever had to open their Bibles. Throw a Lutheran into the mix, and CJ’s toast.

I might be nuts, but I know that SGM damage control can only keep people from posting. It’s obvious that they’re reading. If my in box could talk….

My prayer is that those outside of SGM would see the smoke, and consider that fact that there just might be a fire.

I agree, and have some thoughts about why it is so hard:

The power structure, namely, that the head pastor has all the authority, is the context in which all of “local church” happens. This is a given in SGM; it is an explicit choice of church government style. This style of local church organization is seen as biblical, and therefore, in some measure, “true”.

Once you accept this as true, then any opposition to the pastor(s) is an opposition, in part, to this “true” context, which is a small step away from an opposition to the “truth”.

If you are defending the truth, it is easy to overlook methodology.

This is a very tight interplay of ideas which makes it hard to see that the tactics employed to protect the particular context for “local church” are actually unloving or even a form of abuse.

This same thinking will make it very hard, in my estimation, for the challenges that we present here to be viewed as anything but more “opposition” to the “truth”. I say, very hard, but not impossible. Oh, that they would step back from their tightly intertwined thoughts and see, and acknowledge, the bad as well as the good that can result from their ideas.

Oh, that they would see that without love, such efficient means of government are merely the feeble structures and organizations of sinful men.

I believe that it is possible.

Dan: I would agree with you in that SGM does not have the courage to stand up and admit they’re wrong… I have often wondered, since these pastors can openly confess their own “sins” in the pulpit on any given Sunday, why they can’t just stand up and say “We have done wrong… we have sinned and we know it…” I mean, wouldn’t that be an example of humility as well? But then I think about the real answer to that question and I begin to think the following:

If SGM were to stand up and admit wrong, it would completely (and I do mean COMPLETELY) bring down their entire system of pastoral control.

What are your “indicators” that “public opinion is growing” and that they’re “aware and worried”?

This is encouraging news!

“So do you guys think the word on SGM is getting out yet? What kind of damage control do you think they are doing?”.

No I think from a UK perspective at the moment SG are doing their well-rehersed “let’s stick our heads in the sand and hope everyone goes away”.

I’ve “seen” you over on the survivors blog and have followed your posts.

Was reading in Jude and 1 Peter this morning…some of the descriptions reminded me of some of the SGM leadership.

So do you guys think the word on SGM is getting out yet? What kind of damage control do you think they are doing?

So we not only have basically the same name, but basically the same experience… and I’m quite sure you’re not from my area either…
Hmm… I’m wondering why so many people have experienced the same things over the years. I mean, obviously, according to CJ, it’s because we all weren’t a “joy to pastor”… *rolls eyes*

1st time here? If so, welcome!

I can’t count the red flags…

Thanks for stopping by-and you’re welcome!

Guys, if you want to see a true online community, please stop by Michael’s website. It’s unlike anything I’ve seen online.

I can only aspire….

phoenixpreacher.com