I was reminded the other day by a very good friend (you know who you are! 
) that there will be people who post to The Refuge that don’t agree with what we are trying to accomplish here. Now, that is not news to me! No, we started this blog knowing full well that our hearts and our motives would be judged, we would be accused of gossip, slander, and many other things. We are prepared for that. We fully expected that to happen.
And it has, as there have been a couple of “dissenters” that have found their way to The Refuge, and have “had their say.” That’s fine. They have a differing opinion, they want those opinions heard, and we have a forum to allow them to voice those opinions. We welcome the dialogue.
The other thing my friend reminded me of is this: We are asking publicly (on this blog) for SGM to at least prayerfully consider the issues raised here that we would consider authoritarian and unbiblical. We are also seeking reconciliation with our former pastor, and are publicly asking him to prayerfully reconsider our plea to him for reconciliation to take place.
It is only right for us to do the same. So, I have been prayerfully considering the points brought up by a recent poster who had a lot of negative things to say to us. A lot of his “points” were total judgment of our hearts and our motives. But, weeding through all of the judgment, he actually did cause me to seek God again and look again at our motives for our blog. Did it change my mind? No… it caused me to be even more sure of our motivation.
Our motivation is all about reconciliation, change and healing. That’s what we want to see happen.
As Jim has stated on NUMEROUS occasions, if biblical principles had been affected when he first went to our former pastor, this blog probably never would have existed, at least not in it’s present form.
We would have seen and heard other’s heart twisting experiences with their SGM church, and, while sympathizing, we would have had a different view… the view of a pastor of an SGM church using biblical principles to reconcile. Using the biblical principles they themselves teach. And, although we would have agreed with the authoritarian leadership issues and all that that entails, and many other unbiblical distinctives within SGM and it’s churches, our views of an SGM pastor would have been very different. We would have seen humility. We didn’t. We would have seen biblical principles at work. We didn’t. If we had, we would have a different story to tell. And, I truly believe, we would have been able to bring great hope to all of these wounded people.
Would we still speak out about the biblically wrong practices being taught and used in SGM churches? Yes. Would we still want to see hurting people cared for and healed? Yes. Would The Refuge still have been started? Yes. (But with a different, more hopeful outlook) Would we be seeking reconciliation in such a public forum as this blog? No… that would have already taken place. If our ex-pastor had wanted reconciliation to happen, it would have. That has been mine and Jim’s goal for over two years. I guess this “matter” was thought to be over, “swept under the rug.” But that wouldn’t have been the right, loving thing to do. Not for our ex-pastor. Not for us. Not for the many others in, and those who have left, SGM, who are struggling with these same issues.
Others might have the view that we are bitter, or angry, or vindictive. They can judge us in that way if they want. The funny thing is, if they would stop to think about it for one second, they would realize that, if those things were true, we could have started this blog a long time ago, without giving our ex-pastor time (over 2 years!) to seek to reconcile, and we could have done it anonymously, and with much, much venom and name calling. We haven’t. That is not our intent with going “public.” They would realize that this isn’t “fun” (although it has been fun to get to know all of you here!)… it’s not “comfortable”, it’s not the type of recreation I enjoy. Believe it or not, there are plenty of other things I could be doing with my time here in sunny Florida.
If they would just stop to think for one second, they would realize that there is a REASON we are doing this, and it’s not out of spite.
It’s out of love… for a pastor to do the right thing, to repent and change. Love for a church movement (SGM) that has so many good things going for it, but has bad teachings that produce bad fruit. And love for a people that have been wounded in the “name of God” by the manipulative tactics used by this movement; and to be able to touch people by helping to show the way to God and the wonderful life of love and freedom we have in Him
As I was contemplating the dissenting poster’s words, I was asking myself why I care so much about those still in SGM and it’s churches. I mean, a lot of them seem happy enough. So what’s the problem? I couldn’t help but think of patients in a senior care center (NO, I am NOT comparing SGM and it’s members to a senior care center!… just creating a “word picture” here). If I knew the patients in that hospital were being ill-treated, even if they didn’t realize it themselves, would I just walk away and say, “Well, they seem happy enough… “ or “Wow! I sure hope someone does something about that!” I hope I wouldn’t. I hope I wouldn’t be that callous. And that’s the reason I care so much for the membership, the body of believers, of SGM. There is freedom in God, to be had by ALL believers. We don’t need another mediator… we already have the ultimate Mediator, Jesus Himself!
In thinking about this, I was reminded of a poem (posted below) I read many years ago… (Again, NO, I am not likening SGM to the Nazis… again, just another “word picture” regarding what our responsibility to others should be in certain situations…) I couldn’t help but think of what our responses to unbiblical teachings that cause much hurt to God’s people should be. This poem really makes one think.
And, in relation to The Refuge, I know we are doing the right thing.
If we all continue to turn our heads and hide our faces when we see erroneous “training” taking place, especially to people we love, how will these things change? We need to pray for God’s intervention, and have more fear of Him than fear of any man. We also need to cry out for reform and TRUTH, no matter the cost to our personal comfort.
May God have mercy on us all.
There Was No One Left…
First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left
to speak up for me.
June 25th, 2008 at 7:59 am
There were times when I really wished our old pastors made the effort to reconcile with us. I had to give that fantasy up and live with the reality they are blind to the pain that was inflicted upon our family.
Shortly after we were disfellowshipped, my oldest child was at some event and felt convicted to apologize to one of the pastors for the ill feelings she had for him.
He accepted the apology.
Although I was proud of Jessica for doing the right thing and attempting to make things right between herself and that man, I was white with rage against him for being such a pompous ass to accept her apology without reciprocating by reaching out to *her* to heal the hurts that he inflicted upon my teenaged daughter.
This arrogance and privileged attitude is representative of the issue at hand.
Yes, people are hurt, they may even be a little bit bitter, but what circumstances caused these hurts?
How much better would an alternative storyline had this pastor looked deeply into his heart, considered the hurts within a child’s heart, and reached out to reconcile himself with my daughter instead of pompously accepting her apology.
June 25th, 2008 at 8:22 am
DB… we actually had a similar situation. Our children, teens at the time, had gone through some difficult issues at our old SGM church, involving the kids in the youth group (A nasty bunch of kids, I must say), the youth pastor, and the sr pastor. Months went by with absolutely NOTHING being done about the situation (although the sr pastor kept “promising” Jim that he would take care of it… at the same time, he was “asking” Jim to let him handle it instead of Jim taking the reins and handling it himself).
The sr pastor, although he never “handled” the situation, did meet with my kids… after a very lengthy and direct confrontation by Jim and myself. (BTW… this was the meeting that lead to the “re-evaluation” of Jim’s staff position… where his loyalty was called into question!) He asked my kids if they felt he needed to apologize to them! How were they supposed to respond to that? It was obvious to them that the sr pastor didn’t feel the need to apologize to them… but he would say the words if they felt it was needed. Therefore, if they had said “yes”, it would have been insincere, an empty apology on the sr pastor’s part.
To this day, no heartfelt apology nor asking forgiveness has been sought, either by the sr pastor, or the youth pastor (intern at the time).
Just “business as usual” in SGM!
June 25th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Carole,
Let me get this one straight in my cobweby head;
Your kids were being bullied in some way by the alpha kids in youth group.
Your DH and you approached the senior pastor to put an end to said bullying.
You got stonewalled.
You confronted senior pastor about the mean kids and his stonewalling.
Pastor responds by trying to play head games with your kids.
Did I get the basic facts?
Priceless.
And, for the record, does anyone know of any incidence in which one of these pastors has apologized and/or sought forgiveness from a regular person (aka; one of the animals that is more equal seeking forgiveness from a mere mortal?)
If so, I would really like to hear the story because I haven’t heard of a single story.
And, if we are all afflicted with sin and need to be lovingly confronted on a regular basis and humbly receive correction, why haven’t these dear leaders ever had their own sin addressed?
And if they think they are without sin, are they not contradicting their own pet teaching?
June 25th, 2008 at 9:59 am
DB,
The main issue among the youth was gossip-with my son, because he acted in a Christian manner, and was looking out for a young lady in the church at her father’s request. There was other meaningless gossip-as Carole said, this was a pretty nasty group. I wanted to confront the parents, and was encouraged by the sr p. to not do so, and let him handle it. He never did. my mistake-I’ll address this later.
A biggie with my daughter happened after the meeting, in the church building. There was a large crowd of young people talking-including 2 daughters of a pastor of another Florida church.
The daughter of a cgl decides to address the group. “Erin, I heard that you were dancing at so and so’s party last night. I heard that it was pretty provocative”. This is clearly a mean young lady. Pehaps she’s changed.
My son goes a little beserkowitz (rightfully so, I’m so proud of that young man), and tries to find me. I was in the office, and could not be found. He then starts looking for the father of the young lady, who was not in attendance that day. He then catches her mother in the parking lot, and is met with arrogance.
During the next week, I speak with the lady who hosted the party in question, who is the wife of another cgl. I ask her specifically about my kids dancing-was it improper in any way? I was met with a very emphatic-”no, no, no-it was beautiful- it was so pure”. As an aside, the way my kids danced at that age bore no resemblance to the “modern moves of our day”. They sort of jumped and flailed (sorry kids-I’m old).
We have a meeting with the parents of the mean mouthed young lady, and were actually told that their daughter didn’t know what the word “provocative” meant. Uh-yeah… A big issue was made of the fact that my son didn’t go through the proper gender channels. He tried to, and was unable to. Out of love and protection for his sister, he wanted the mean young lady to shut her mouth, but was far to kind to address her, so he talked to her mom. During the meeting, the mom sighed and groaned a lot-we were really putting her out. I think that this incident ended with an apology to my daughter, and I’ve sent her an email to confirm.
When I shared all of this with the sr p., he agreed that the mean mouthed young lady probably did not know what “provocative” meant. Uh…yeah. She was 17 at the time.
The young lady in question did ask for my daughter’s forgiveness, and my daughter felt that it was heartfelt and genuine, and not something her parents forced her to do.
The parents also asked for Carole and I for forgiveness, which was of course granted. I don’t bring this story up in any way to discredit them. Most of the cgl’s have daughters. If you go to SGC T-Ville and are reading this, please don’t try to figure out who’s who. It would be wrong to do so, and your guess would probably be wrong. Saved sinners sin. Please don’t go on a witch hunt in your mind, trying to determine the players involved. This was resolved in a proper manner.
They are forgiven, and this matter is over. This was addressed in context on this blog in reference to the culture that the SGM franchise creates, and to clarify that the issue with my children was not bullying, but slander.
What I regret the most about my time in SGM is that I put the church above my family. My sin in the area is horrendous, and if there’s anything that I can’t “get over” it is this regret. I trusted leadership, instead of doing what I knew I should. It’s my fault alone.
More on this later.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:14 am
I simply MUST add a little info to Jim’s above statement…
June 25th, 2008 at 10:15 am
DB,
When our sp was at the PC, another man was pastoring the church. I was on the worship team. The pastor was leading the team at the time. After practice, he called me into another room, and confronted me on my behavior during practice. He was probably correct in doing so, as at this time, I considered myself to be the only “real musician” on the team. Nice attitude, huh?.
After his comment, and my reply, he immediately said-”I can tell from your response and demeanor that you have no idea what I’m talking about, and I’ve misjudged you-would you please forgive me?”
I want to give credit where credit is due. This was a clear, heartfelt, specific request for forgiveness.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am
AAAAHHHH!!!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am
SUMMER!!!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Summer,
What I’ve found is that many SGM
June 25th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Jim,
You said, “Either these guys are really dumb, or they think that we are.”
I actually
June 25th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
I don’t think you are wrong to put up this site. I hope either SG makes some changes OR more SG “type” churches or groups spring up without the shepherding influences. Either way the outcome will be positive.
I also try to think ahead and see where all this will be 10-20 years from now and I suspect it might be the latter. Or SG will ‘dissolve’ their present leadership dynamic and each church will be independently run or something like that.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
I also feel like I want to say that if more churches spring up like I inferred above it will be mostly transferred growth as more christians will be looking for a safe church and a hiding place from the wired extremes in churchianity and our US culture which to me is becoming more depraved.