Comments on: Responding to leadership in Sovereign Grace Ministries

By: Charlotte Holtry

Charlotte Holtry — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 01:26:09 +0000

I wrote before that I was planning to be part of a new church plant and I definitely still am. One of the most useful things I learned at SGVB was how to really forgive with your heart and not just your tongue. If these pastors left, I’m sorry. I did not know many of them at all. If the some of the accused are still with SG and confessed their sins, asking for forgiveness then I do not see as a Christian how I could not forgive them. Sometimes people who have authority go overboard and experiments have shown that even normal everyday folks when given authority over others sometimes let it go to extremes. I don’t think any of these men deliberetly hurt people. Many just thought they were doing what they had been told to do. I am looking forward to becoming a member of SG again. I trust my own judgement and trust God to lead me on the right path. By the way I am not “HC” , I am just CH.

By: Gracie

Gracie — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:03:59 +0000

Ah, yes, the Day Timer. I had one. As a home group leader’s wife, it was essential. *sigh*

By: keepinstep

keepinstep — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:21:39 +0000

They didn’t do 15-min increments at my SGM church, but there was the cult of the Day-Timer.

I remember one pastor proudly explaining how once he had tasks written-in to his Day-Timer slots, he was under no obligation to consider anyone’s request for a particular time slot. All he had to do was look in his Day-Timer and, if that slot was already taken, just say, “Sorry, I already have a commitment for that time!”

How many times did the Holy Spirit try over the years to break into his schedule (via people), only to be told, “Sorry, I already have a commitment for that time!”

By: edgewalker

edgewalker — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:42:36 +0000

Agreed, Square Peg, Agreed! Well…I would have saved 12.5 years, anyway…

By: Square Peg

Square Peg — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:07:51 +0000

And while we’re doing algebra — covering=smothering.

Oh, my — too bad my SGM church didn’t do the 15-minute thing. I’d've been outta there in a heartbeat and could’ve saved 20 years.

By: Irv

Irv — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:48:04 +0000

Standing By – Thanks for the update. I really liked John and thought he was a good pastor.

HC – I should not have been taking a drink while reading your post as I lost what was in my mouth. The fifteen minute increments and other ridiculous ‘stuff’ were put on me as well. I thought it was just me and I was not under Brent or any of his disciples. It is amazing how stupid I (we) was to submit this sort of crap but there you go. You do what you think is honoring to the Lord.

Fortunately, YEARS later he came back to Grace. And what is the name of this group?? We know the grace is gone but where is the love.

After this, I was branded a rebel, and the church was told to avoid me. You are in a great company of super folks and wonderful people who love God and enjoy Him who were also branded at one time. Thank God, you are blessed and free!!!

In other-words, socialism vs. free market economies. Free choice is a gift from God. Your statement is very penetrating. Twenty-five years ago the Lord gave me this word “what you see in the world is what the church is doing behind closed doors”. Check it out!!!
FSGP – Do you have a Master’s or Doctorate of Math?? It looks to me you do!!

DB – More like a spiritual burqa particularly for women. Accurate statement – why are we being like the religions of the world when Jesus set us free from religion (and religious activity)

By: Suzie Jenkins

Suzie Jenkins — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:44:10 +0000

Speaking of Brent D………….I recently had a converstation with someone that was a part of the church plant in Mooresville. They were a part of the Leadership there. I asked them why, if Brent’s problems have always been control, legalizm, pride, extreme arrogance, why was he suddenly “not fit to be a pastor”. (And let me be very clear, I couldn’t agree more with that accessment!). Then he was “released” to stop giving “ongoing care and support” to other countries. This person said that CWCC in Charlotte, NC should have never planted that church, and that alot of information was witheld from them. And that if they had known, none of them would have ever planted the church with him. He was first “released” from being an “apostle”, then he was “released” from being a Senior Pastor at CWCC, then when he had nothing else to do, he was allowed to go plant a church and destroy some more lives. I have known Brent D. for over 30 years now as a part of SGM, and he absolutely makes me sick. I am so glad he has been stopped of his wicked ways.

By: canary

canary — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:08:59 +0000

HC,
I have noticed the same thing with politics and the church simalarities. It is easier to follow others than to perform the due diligence requried to understand what it takes to retain our freedom in this country or in a church environment. Following others blindly requires little faith in God. Yet it is faith that pleases Him!

Brent was the pastor Mr. Canary and I were “under” during the latter part of our involvement in PDI. His controlling nature resulted in the disillusionment of many saints. He was finally fired after his recent NC church plant went wrong. I don’t know where he and his family are now, or how they are doing. We never wished ill to befall him. Yet, if he had listened to those of us who humbly brought his weaknesses to his attention, he might have changed his ways and still be a pastor. It is eye-opening to realize that his controlling ways began all those years ago, before pdi even began. If only Mr. Canary and I had known, we would have never followed him. We found out the hard, painful way what was truly going on.

By: Defended

Defended — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:35:07 +0000

Quick Question for clarification please, Charlotte H, are you the same as HC?
or are you guys 2 different people with 2 different stories? I just wanna keep up.

HC, I have heard some awful tales of control but the spending thing and reporting purchases to brent is just doggone scary!

By: Stunned

Stunned — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:59:01 +0000

HC siad, “After this, I was branded a rebel, and the church was told to avoid me, as I am poisoning the church.”

Bad, bad man. Late for church with two small kids? I can’t imagine anything in church history. Thank heavens they protected the rest of the flock from you.*

*PS. HC, I do hope you know I was saying that with tongue firmly implanted in cheek. How tragic yet sadly not surprising.

By: DB

DB — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:37:17 +0000

Covering? More like a spiritual burqa particularly for women.

By: HC

HC — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:33:14 +0000

A personal observation that may be wrong (I hope).
What is going on with SGM and other “covering” type of churches is reflected on what is going on in a lot of today’s citizens and politics. Some prefer to be told what to do and do it, rather than take the risk and responsibility of sticking your neck out and taking a chance. In other-words, socialism vs. free market economies.
Free choice is a gift from God. That is why so many bad things happen to good people. Sometimes we choose wrong, and suffer. Sometimes we suffer because of the decisions of others. But, (hopefully) that is how we learn. But some people prefer to be told what to do and how to do it. For some, it is easier.
I am not saying this to put anyone down, etc. but it is what I had to learn…. The hard way.

By: Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM

Gratefully Disillusioned from SGM — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:15:48 +0000

HC,

The longer I am away from SG nuttiness the more crazy it seems to me. I am thankful for not being under their “covering”–yuck!!–the word sickens me.

By: HC

HC — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:35:01 +0000

Question: Is servility a doctrine in SGM? Do they actually use the word?

By: John Immel

John Immel — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:05:49 +0000

Uh… if I might offer this: Forget equating titles with men … the pinnacle of horror is people continuing to give these guys deference, benefit of the doubt, or servility.

By: FSGP

FSGP — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:40:09 +0000

The only thing scarier than “Steve Shank = Sr Pastor” is “Steve Shank = Apostle”.

By: HC

HC — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:29:48 +0000

forgive me, but I am going to cut to the bone here. But first some background.
I was not a part of SGM, but part of Indiana Christian Fellowship in Indiana PA. When Brent D was nominated to be pastor, all of the elders resigned in protest and I didn’t understand why. Believe me, I learned later.
This was when Larry T was heavily involved, and SGM didn’t exist yet. Now I was not against covering authorities at that point in my life, but it didn’t take long for it to get crazy. We were expected to schedule our days in advance in 15 minute increments, then keep a reciept for everything bought, including newspapers. Then this would be reviewed by Brent. Women immediately had to take a back seat in everything. This included some of the things I have seen like men ordering their wives dinner when out, etc. They were to be meek little mice at all times.
The final 2 things that opened my eyes were as follows. One, a new brother in the Lord, who came out of the world of heavy drug use and dealing had long hair and smoked. Within 2 months he was put on the carpet dealing with these issues in front of the elders. It was very embarrassing to him, and expressed that he was going to try to quit smoking soon, but why the issue with the hair? Did NOT go over well. To make a long story short, he ended up leaving and falling away from the Lord for a while. As he told me, Jesus accepts me right where I am now, why can’t they? Fortunately, YEARS later he came back to Grace.
At this point, I was seeing what was going on. My wife and I purposely did not attend any meeting or service for over two weeks to see if anyone showed any concern. Not one phone call. When we came back to our first Sunday service, we arrived just as they started singing. We had 2 small children, and had to change the older ones clothes as he fell in the mud making us a few minutes late. As soon as the worship ended, an elder, Bo Latinsky came and got me, and chastised me for being late. It was my last meeting that I ever attended. I attempted discussed the two issues with him and another elder later, but my words were not heard, let along considered.
After this, I was branded a rebel, and the church was told to avoid me, as I am poisoning the church.
So be it.
Personally, I feel anyone even considering joining this group should really, really reconsider.
The potential for this church to be a cult is staggering.

By: Standing By

Standing By — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:00:34 +0000

Additional catch up notes RE: JB -

I should add that, as far as I’ve been able to determine, the decision to leave Atlanta and move to Charlotte and stop being a pastor was a personal choice that had to do with medical issues within JB’s family and wasn’t a “degifting” or “discipline” issue.

(matt 10:16)

By: Standing By

Standing By — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:24:02 +0000

Charlotte, Irv, and others:

Just some catch up notes RE: JB (John Butler) -

When Shank, Bendinelli, Payne, and McKenzie left SGC-Ches for Denver, and parts west, JB became senior pastor. A few years later, JB left Ches for Atlanta (Woodstock, GA) leaving KB as SrP in Ches. A few years after that JB left the Atlanta area and moved to the Charlotte, NC area (Crossway Community Church) and is no longer a pastor.

(matt 10:16)

By: Sidney

Sidney — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:40:45 +0000

I’m sorry…I wish it wasn’t too late to edit that post above. :)

I should have said they went to Denver …in the 90s sometime.

And then I should have said Bendinelli “retired” from being a senior pastor in SGM.

Thanks,

Sidney