Our Sovereign Grace Church was adopted in 1999. In 2000, all attenders were taken through the pre-membership study, which at the time was “Foundations for the Christian Life”. this same curriculum was used in all pre-membership classes, until it was replaced by “Our Journey Together”. I don’t recall exactly when the replacement occurred, but I’m thinking 2002-2003. If it matters to anyone, they can correct me re the timeline.
Both notebooks contain a chapter about leadership in the local church, and both chapters contain a section on our response to leadership.
What is interesting, is that in Foundations, there was a section on “Safeguards in the Exercise of Authority”.
This section was deleted from “Our Journey Together”. I’ve posted both below for your consideration.
From “Foundations”:
D. Safeguards in the Exercise of Authority
Many people have a dislike for or distrust of those in authority. Part of this is the sinful flesh, part of it may be fear born out of bad experiences and part of it may be simple wisdom. Furthermore, as leaders we recognize the “risk” we are asking people to take by submitting to our authority. We believe God has given His people safeguards against the misuse of authority that both leaders and followers should know and practice.
1. Personal responsibility
Each person must give an account of himself before God. While we are to submit to our leaders, we must never do so at the expense of our conscience or contrary to God’s word. Submission is never blind obedience or mindless passivity. Neither is it being a “doormat” or a “yes man”.
2. Understanding the limits of authority
A pastor’s authority differs depending upon the situation. A pastor has the most authority when dealing with matters of clear biblical command; a bit less when dealing with interpretation of Scriptures; less still when when dealing with matters of wisdom; and little when dealing with matters of personal preference. Ideally, mutual respect, humility and teachability keep this from being an issue.
3. A leaders character
The Bible gives a variety of character qualities that qualify a man for leadership. These qualities also keep a man qualified. The best safeguard is a man who exhibits these qualities in an increasing measure in his life. A man’s gifting, charisma, preaching style etc. is never a substitute for godly character.
4. Accountability
To be accountable means to be answerable to someone besides yourself. Leaders should be committed to relationships with other men with whom they can honestly confess sin and seek counsel and who will freely question and confront when warranted. For this reason among others, leadership in a local church should always be plural. We also have the protection of accountability to an extra-local apostolic team.
5. Appeal
Anyone has the right to question, discuss, or disagree with any decision or doctrine in the local church as long as they do so with a godly attitude and in a non-divisive way. Our commitment is to work out any such matters to the best of our ability to bring peace and unity to the church and to individual relationships. If matters can’t be resolved at one level within the church, you take them to another level, including to the apostolic team. lf matters still can’t be resolved, we will always release
people from membership in the church to pursue the direction they believe God has for them.
From “Our Journey Together”:
C. Maintain a biblical attitude toward your leaders.
To our individualistic culture, the Bible’s commands concerning leaders might seem antiquated or, perhaps, authoritative. Neither is the case. And, as with all the Bible’s commands, proper understanding and faith-filled obedience will result in blessing for ourselves and for the church as a whole. What should our attitude be characterized by?
1. A faith-filled submission
Hebrews 13:17: “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping
watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do
this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.”
Submission does not mean passivity or blind obedience. Rather, submission is an expression of faith towards God—that he has appointed leaders for us and he will use them for our good. It recognizes the critical role that leadership plays in bringing about God’s purposes in the church and in the lives of believers. Fundamentally, submission is an attitude: a disposition to affirm and support the leadership of the church, and to increase its effectiveness through joyful and faith-filled participation.
—————-
I would think that anyone can see the glaring difference.
How would you view these changes-better? Worse?
Were pre-2003 members aware of these changes? Should they have been made aware? (as an aside, I was aware of the changes, as I taught from both books. Carole was unaware. A care group leaders wife, and a leader of women’s ministries)
I was in “good solder mode”, and don’t recall if I was concerned at the time. When I taught from “the Journey”, I would supplement my notes with portions from “Foundations”. I don’t recall if I included this portion from “Foundations”. I really only remember teaching this chapter from “the Journey” once, as the scheduled teacher was unable to teach that day. It’s very possible that I taught this section more than once-I just can’t recall. I certainly know what I think about these changes now.
What are your thoughts?
Quite a difference there, I’d say…
I really believe that the authority issue is far too stressed in the SGM machine. The verses that speak of submission to leaders have been removed from context, in that they are not balanced by other verses, such as “My sheep know my voice”, and “there is only one Mediator, Jesus…” When someone takes a verse or two and stresses it over and over, a doctrine is created, one that is used to control the members of the body. We must see the word of God in its totality!
I always took that tendency the same way I look at balding middle-aged men driving expensive sports cars; they’re compensating for *something.*
Ha-ha-ha-ha! Good analogy.
But seriously, during one of *those* sermons one of our former pastors was droning on ad tedium about submission and finally said if you had no one to submit to you….get a dog.
I kid you not.
Get a dog? LOL!
Droning, huh? ROFL!
I was particularly interested in the “Appeal” section;
“5. Appeal … If matters can
Dan,
What a crock of poop. They had you completely stuck, based on their inaccurate assessment, all because you were honest and humble enough to share your heart.
I thank God, that in His goodness, He will never let you go. You don’t sound bitter, and it certainly doesn’t seem that this nonsense has effected your faith in Him. What grace!
I can do nothing but thank Him and commend you.
I too have concerns about the road ahead. A (non-SGM) pastor friend of mine also believes that SGM will in the future cover up pastoral sins that they now address. I’m hopeful, but do wonder what will happen when a great number of local pastors are the sons of other influential pastors or “apostles”.
Time will tell. I’m hoping, and working towards reform. But, as I’ve been told on this site, I’m no Luther.
God have mercy…
I know Dave Harvey. Personally.
That defend to the hilt thing flows both ways.
In fact, make a mental note; when I mention our old pastor it will be Harvey or some other bloke that got drummed out because of his rebellous son. Another note: what did aforementioed son *do* to be so labeled? He had the audicity to start attending another church. Ooooo, the scandel.
Also,
When parenting practiced advocated at SGM churches are deployed, children are not given the tools to be able to defend themselves.
Look an adult in the eye and greet. This doesn’t allow the child to hide behind their parents when they feel uneasy. It isn’t too many logical steps of ignoring the natural red flags to find a poor child in a compromising situation with an opportunistic predator.
The adult is always right. Learned helplessness. It must be my fault; it is always my fault. If I tell, they will discipline me for the lie or the sin I just committed with said opportunistic predator.
This is something that really haunts me at times. From what I know about pediphilic predators, they look for vulnerable children. Children reared in the SG environment are ripe for the picking. I know of no actual case, but the profile of the vulnerable child is there.
UGH! I hadn’t thought of that, DB. You know, I saw children forced to greet, even though they were shy. My shy kids have grown into very confident teens, as they were encouraged and had security in their home life. I didn’t have to “discipline” them into greeting people. How much of that kind of parenting is simply done to make the parents look good?
Same here, Canary.
I have had some extremely shy children, others have been more naturally extroverted.
The shy ones have become more social as they were allowed to unfold naturally.
In some of these circles, shyness seems to be regarded as a sinful state instead of either a normal temperament or a normal stage that some children experience.
And, yes, I have seen the practice of forcing children into some sort of coerced friendliness whose sole purpose seems to be making the parents look good/conforming to the church standard of behavior and expectations.
From a developmental perspective, it isn’t healthy.
I was wondering about exactly who and what ministries are suppose to be the so called authority in leadership?
Jim and carole: As I would always say and as I see you doing today. Be careful and yet courageous.
In Revelation 2 and 3 Jesus Himself started the conversation by engaging
Man what a mess in typos. Sorry.
Hi Pat,
First time here? If so, welcome!
CJ is the leader of what they used to call the apostolic team, but now call the leadership team. They still have an apostolic team, which are more like regional bishops.
I think that makes him the pope.
It’s beyond me that someone can proclaim himself the leader of a denomination, while talking so much about humility. At least the catholic bishops vote to decide who will be pope.
I also see no Biblical or historical precedent for calling one’s self an apostle today. None of the church fathers (those who led the church after the apostles died) used the term “apostle”. There is simply no precedent.
To answer your question; “can anyone…..”, I’m assuming it’s rhetorical, as we’re watching it happen.
Victorious,
I’m sorry about the typos.
Edit comment feature should be functioning again….
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the welcome. Why do many of us play “follow the leader”? And just who raised up these so called leaders? Seminaries? Denominations? Just becuase someone has a semionary degreee, does he qualify as a leader? A teacher maybe, but a leader with authority? I think a lot of them just started their own churches, so they were the leader by default! Oh my!
Pat,
CJ has no degree, and joking says that his High School graduation is questionable, although he’s clearly very bright and is very studied. He also has no denominational background, but was raised as a nominal catholic.
He (and other men) started a church, which started a movement. He has somehow managed to keep himself at the top of the heap.
The guy is clearly a mega leader, who will gather followers.
And I clearly see why pastors would want to be affiliated. SGM takes care of their pastors very well, and even small SGCs return the favor with loyalty and large contributions to “the mission”, which means SGM.
And the flock are treated like….sheep.
Hi Jim,
When you say he is well studied, does he understand Greek and Hebrew fluently? Hermeneutics and linguistics? I have heard no such knowledge in any of his teachings, of which I have heard many.
Pat
I would agree with you that Mahaney’s exegesis is deplorable in many instances.
I have to tell you, this post has messed me up a little.
Gracie
From what we have both seen, it sounds like that at least in some circles SG never really practiced what they said in the first membership training class they gave above.
Gracie,
I get you.
I do have to add something for everyone’s consideration.
Canary
Good point.
Steve,
your speculation is along the same lines as my speculation.
CJ and SGM could end all conjecture if they were open and honest.
They are not-they sit in the seat of Moses, and we are all just dumb sheep.
It would be great if someone from the inside would come on here and give us facts about CJ’s accountability.
I’ll be “unpacking” my thoughts on the “Moses Principle”, and how it relates to SGM this week.
Steve Shenk and Brent D may still speak positive or in a quandary.
Good point.
CJ Mahaney and Hermeneutics and Exegetics in the same sentence
Canary said (post 26):
John,
THAT is the post of the week.
Very well stated and dead on.
John,
Well said.
John,
I agree the buck stops with CJ.
I also agree that we must remember, in spite of all the pain we have collectively suffered, that CJ is a brother in Christ and it is our duty, as Christians, to continue in love.
This is not easy, honestly, I’m the worst out of the bunch, but he is a borther in Christ. This does not mean we should ignore the facts or not broach difficult topics, however.
I agree that CJ has insulated himself from critics leading to dangerous (or, in the least, potentially dangerous,) circumstances in which CJ weilds more power than a mere mortal should have.
Well said, DB.
I agree with everything you said, and would only add that there are times when the most loving thing to do is to confront a brother (or a movement) caught in sin. Caught as in ensnared/trapped, not “I caught you!”.
I would add (to my comment), that this type of confrontation isn’t for everyone. I could not have started this blog a year ago, because my motivation would have been out of anger, and not out of love. Or more accurately, my motivation would have been different every day, as I was in the midst of detox.
It is, ahem, more in my nature to react in anger as well. I have been learning on an unrelated venue to not respond in kind but to be loving in *spite* of how nasty the other person behaves. It sounds so darn elementary, but I have a strong personality (hence the poor fit at PDI/SG churches,) and it has taken and is still taking a life time to learn what some people learn in childhood.
There’s a Bible verse somewhere about the anger of man achieving naught….where is that verse?
Anyway, I am prattling on mostly for my own benefit, but these are our brothers and we will be spending forever with them in heaven.
Not the same verse, but James 1:20 comes to mind.
Close enough, I’ll take it. I think my head was in the OT scriptures, but that one will do just fine. Thanks.
DB,
Women with strong personalities did not fit well in SGM.
Canary said:
Sheesh John,
How do I pick a comment of the week if you keep one-upping yourself?
btw, in reference to loving CJ as a brother, I think CJ needs to read Daniel chapter 4 and repent. I pray God truly humbles him.
Personally, when actions are as questionable as his are and for as long as his have been, I think it’s time he “checked his ticket” to make sure what team he is actually on. In looking at the fruit of “his” ministry, it certainly isn’t of the Spirit. And is controlled by other spirits to a dangerous degree. Idolatry is serious stuff.
Jim and Carole – my church was recently adopted (I can’t say exactly when it would give away which church and I wish to remain anonymous at this time) but suffice it to say it was after your church was adopted. We never had any type of pre-membership classes. I am curious about the “play books” the leadership may have. All we had access to were those silly little pamphlets pushing polity and election. So my question is, as someone who was in leadership, what exactly IS a church told pre-adoption? How much is revealed post-adoption as ot what you’ve signed on for? Do churches actually sign a convenant? I’m wondering about what all my former church did. There was no talk at all.
Incidentally, I spoke with a friend who still goes to the SGM church – the congregation was “informed” that a young pastor from a sister church would be coming to the church next year afte rhe finished pastors college. As some of oyu know, the assoc pastor/elder stepped down a couple weeks ago with a lame excuse of going into missions – which may or may not be true, but he did have a heart for overseas missions (i.e. church planting with SGM) SO they are positioning their people quite nicely.
I stumbled upon this site while looking up some of the people I have known years ago. One, was a pastor of mine in Indiana, PA. My wife and I, along with some VERY mature brothers and sisters left once it became overbearing. I know your pain. But there is healing. Just hang in there with the one who supplies all.
Thanks for the encouragement, HC. It is appreciated. Glad to hear God is bringing His healing to His precious children.
I happened upon all this “stuf” about SGC when I was just getting back in touch with what was going on. What in the world happened. My husband and I were members of SG in VB VA 15 years ago and although I was not thrilled with some of their teachings, we did belong to a wonderful home group and I am still friends with many. At that time Steve Shank was Sr. Pastor and David Bendinelli was on the staff along with John ?. I lost my son and husband 4 months apart in early 1995 and was in a daze while Bendinelli “cleaned out”? my garage. I also tithed my life insurance (much money) which I was told to do just a few weeks after my husband’s death. A large group of my friends left the church as it became too controlling so I guess I am not really surprised about all this although I trusted them and now I am sorry I did.
I am just ready to become part of a SG church planting in another state. I certainly will investigate and question anything from now on. I am so disapointed because I did like the relationship part of the church groups and now that I am alone I desperately need a good church family. Who are all you people anyhow? Were you members and if so, what happened. All I could ascertain was there was some sort of emotional abuse going on in VB. Please enlighten me. Thanks PS Where is Bendenelli anyway? Probably in jail.
Charlotte – WOW!!!! It is hard to believe that you are considering another SG church plant. Quite an expression of grace, mercy and forgiveness, which is very commendable. I am sure that Defender (ed), Canary and others can clue you in on Bendenelli. It just isn’t (wasn’t) VB but it is in the nature and fiber of SGM and a simple housekeeping will not solve the issues.
I met Dave many years ago and he seemed like a standup guy as did the others you mentioned. I am not sure what happened to JB at VA Beach but I must say he was my favorite so my guess he met with the PDI/SGM demise.
So sorry you lost so much in such a short amount of time. God’s grace is evident in your life. May He continue to bless and keep you.
Irv
Bendinelli and Shank went to North Denver to plant a SGM church. Sometime about a year ago, Bendinelli “retired” from SGM. They now go to another church in Denver. Along with some other ex-sgm folk.
I’m sorry…I wish it wasn’t too late to edit that post above. :)
I should have said they went to Denver …in the 90s sometime.
And then I should have said Bendinelli “retired” from being a senior pastor in SGM.
Thanks,
Sidney
Charlotte, Irv, and others:
Just some catch up notes RE: JB (John Butler) -
When Shank, Bendinelli, Payne, and McKenzie left SGC-Ches for Denver, and parts west, JB became senior pastor. A few years later, JB left Ches for Atlanta (Woodstock, GA) leaving KB as SrP in Ches. A few years after that JB left the Atlanta area and moved to the Charlotte, NC area (Crossway Community Church) and is no longer a pastor.
(matt 10:16)
Additional catch up notes RE: JB -
I should add that, as far as I’ve been able to determine, the decision to leave Atlanta and move to Charlotte and stop being a pastor was a personal choice that had to do with medical issues within JB’s family and wasn’t a “degifting” or “discipline” issue.
(matt 10:16)
forgive me, but I am going to cut to the bone here. But first some background.
I was not a part of SGM, but part of Indiana Christian Fellowship in Indiana PA. When Brent D was nominated to be pastor, all of the elders resigned in protest and I didn’t understand why. Believe me, I learned later.
This was when Larry T was heavily involved, and SGM didn’t exist yet. Now I was not against covering authorities at that point in my life, but it didn’t take long for it to get crazy. We were expected to schedule our days in advance in 15 minute increments, then keep a reciept for everything bought, including newspapers. Then this would be reviewed by Brent. Women immediately had to take a back seat in everything. This included some of the things I have seen like men ordering their wives dinner when out, etc. They were to be meek little mice at all times.
The final 2 things that opened my eyes were as follows. One, a new brother in the Lord, who came out of the world of heavy drug use and dealing had long hair and smoked. Within 2 months he was put on the carpet dealing with these issues in front of the elders. It was very embarrassing to him, and expressed that he was going to try to quit smoking soon, but why the issue with the hair? Did NOT go over well. To make a long story short, he ended up leaving and falling away from the Lord for a while. As he told me, Jesus accepts me right where I am now, why can’t they? Fortunately, YEARS later he came back to Grace.
At this point, I was seeing what was going on. My wife and I purposely did not attend any meeting or service for over two weeks to see if anyone showed any concern. Not one phone call. When we came back to our first Sunday service, we arrived just as they started singing. We had 2 small children, and had to change the older ones clothes as he fell in the mud making us a few minutes late. As soon as the worship ended, an elder, Bo Latinsky came and got me, and chastised me for being late. It was my last meeting that I ever attended. I attempted discussed the two issues with him and another elder later, but my words were not heard, let along considered.
After this, I was branded a rebel, and the church was told to avoid me, as I am poisoning the church.
So be it.
Personally, I feel anyone even considering joining this group should really, really reconsider.
The potential for this church to be a cult is staggering.
The only thing scarier than “Steve Shank = Sr Pastor” is “Steve Shank = Apostle”.
Uh… if I might offer this: Forget equating titles with men … the pinnacle of horror is people continuing to give these guys deference, benefit of the doubt, or servility.
Question: Is servility a doctrine in SGM? Do they actually use the word?
HC,
The longer I am away from SG nuttiness the more crazy it seems to me. I am thankful for not being under their “covering”–yuck!!–the word sickens me.
A personal observation that may be wrong (I hope).
What is going on with SGM and other “covering” type of churches is reflected on what is going on in a lot of today’s citizens and politics. Some prefer to be told what to do and do it, rather than take the risk and responsibility of sticking your neck out and taking a chance. In other-words, socialism vs. free market economies.
Free choice is a gift from God. That is why so many bad things happen to good people. Sometimes we choose wrong, and suffer. Sometimes we suffer because of the decisions of others. But, (hopefully) that is how we learn. But some people prefer to be told what to do and how to do it. For some, it is easier.
I am not saying this to put anyone down, etc. but it is what I had to learn…. The hard way.
Covering? More like a spiritual burqa particularly for women.
HC siad, “After this, I was branded a rebel, and the church was told to avoid me, as I am poisoning the church.”
Bad, bad man. Late for church with two small kids? I can’t imagine anything in church history. Thank heavens they protected the rest of the flock from you.*
*PS. HC, I do hope you know I was saying that with tongue firmly implanted in cheek. How tragic yet sadly not surprising.
Quick Question for clarification please, Charlotte H, are you the same as HC?
or are you guys 2 different people with 2 different stories? I just wanna keep up.
HC, I have heard some awful tales of control but the spending thing and reporting purchases to brent is just doggone scary!
HC,
I have noticed the same thing with politics and the church simalarities. It is easier to follow others than to perform the due diligence requried to understand what it takes to retain our freedom in this country or in a church environment. Following others blindly requires little faith in God. Yet it is faith that pleases Him!
Brent was the pastor Mr. Canary and I were “under” during the latter part of our involvement in PDI. His controlling nature resulted in the disillusionment of many saints. He was finally fired after his recent NC church plant went wrong. I don’t know where he and his family are now, or how they are doing. We never wished ill to befall him. Yet, if he had listened to those of us who humbly brought his weaknesses to his attention, he might have changed his ways and still be a pastor. It is eye-opening to realize that his controlling ways began all those years ago, before pdi even began. If only Mr. Canary and I had known, we would have never followed him. We found out the hard, painful way what was truly going on.
Speaking of Brent D………….I recently had a converstation with someone that was a part of the church plant in Mooresville. They were a part of the Leadership there. I asked them why, if Brent’s problems have always been control, legalizm, pride, extreme arrogance, why was he suddenly “not fit to be a pastor”. (And let me be very clear, I couldn’t agree more with that accessment!). Then he was “released” to stop giving “ongoing care and support” to other countries. This person said that CWCC in Charlotte, NC should have never planted that church, and that alot of information was witheld from them. And that if they had known, none of them would have ever planted the church with him. He was first “released” from being an “apostle”, then he was “released” from being a Senior Pastor at CWCC, then when he had nothing else to do, he was allowed to go plant a church and destroy some more lives. I have known Brent D. for over 30 years now as a part of SGM, and he absolutely makes me sick. I am so glad he has been stopped of his wicked ways.
Standing By – Thanks for the update. I really liked John and thought he was a good pastor.
HC – I should not have been taking a drink while reading your post as I lost what was in my mouth. The fifteen minute increments and other ridiculous ‘stuff’ were put on me as well. I thought it was just me and I was not under Brent or any of his disciples. It is amazing how stupid I (we) was to submit this sort of crap but there you go. You do what you think is honoring to the Lord.
Fortunately, YEARS later he came back to Grace. And what is the name of this group?? We know the grace is gone but where is the love.
After this, I was branded a rebel, and the church was told to avoid me. You are in a great company of super folks and wonderful people who love God and enjoy Him who were also branded at one time. Thank God, you are blessed and free!!!
In other-words, socialism vs. free market economies. Free choice is a gift from God. Your statement is very penetrating. Twenty-five years ago the Lord gave me this word “what you see in the world is what the church is doing behind closed doors”. Check it out!!!
FSGP – Do you have a Master’s or Doctorate of Math?? It looks to me you do!!
DB – More like a spiritual burqa particularly for women. Accurate statement – why are we being like the religions of the world when Jesus set us free from religion (and religious activity)
And while we’re doing algebra — covering=smothering.
Oh, my — too bad my SGM church didn’t do the 15-minute thing. I’d've been outta there in a heartbeat and could’ve saved 20 years.
Agreed, Square Peg, Agreed! Well…I would have saved 12.5 years, anyway…
They didn’t do 15-min increments at my SGM church, but there was the cult of the Day-Timer.
I remember one pastor proudly explaining how once he had tasks written-in to his Day-Timer slots, he was under no obligation to consider anyone’s request for a particular time slot. All he had to do was look in his Day-Timer and, if that slot was already taken, just say, “Sorry, I already have a commitment for that time!”
How many times did the Holy Spirit try over the years to break into his schedule (via people), only to be told, “Sorry, I already have a commitment for that time!”
Ah, yes, the Day Timer. I had one. As a home group leader’s wife, it was essential. *sigh*
I wrote before that I was planning to be part of a new church plant and I definitely still am. One of the most useful things I learned at SGVB was how to really forgive with your heart and not just your tongue. If these pastors left, I’m sorry. I did not know many of them at all. If the some of the accused are still with SG and confessed their sins, asking for forgiveness then I do not see as a Christian how I could not forgive them. Sometimes people who have authority go overboard and experiments have shown that even normal everyday folks when given authority over others sometimes let it go to extremes. I don’t think any of these men deliberetly hurt people. Many just thought they were doing what they had been told to do. I am looking forward to becoming a member of SG again. I trust my own judgement and trust God to lead me on the right path. By the way I am not “HC” , I am just CH.