Our Sovereign Grace Church was adopted in 1999. In 2000, all attenders were taken through the pre-membership study, which at the time was “Foundations for the Christian Life”. this same curriculum was used in all pre-membership classes, until it was replaced by “Our Journey Together”. I don’t recall exactly when the replacement occurred, but I’m thinking 2002-2003. If it matters to anyone, they can correct me re the timeline.
Both notebooks contain a chapter about leadership in the local church, and both chapters contain a section on our response to leadership.
What is interesting, is that in Foundations, there was a section on “Safeguards in the Exercise of Authority”.
This section was deleted from “Our Journey Together”. I’ve posted both below for your consideration.
From “Foundations”:
D. Safeguards in the Exercise of Authority
Many people have a dislike for or distrust of those in authority. Part of this is the sinful flesh, part of it may be fear born out of bad experiences and part of it may be simple wisdom. Furthermore, as leaders we recognize the “risk” we are asking people to take by submitting to our authority. We believe God has given His people safeguards against the misuse of authority that both leaders and followers should know and practice.
1. Personal responsibility
Each person must give an account of himself before God. While we are to submit to our leaders, we must never do so at the expense of our conscience or contrary to God’s word. Submission is never blind obedience or mindless passivity. Neither is it being a “doormat” or a “yes man”.
2. Understanding the limits of authority
A pastor’s authority differs depending upon the situation. A pastor has the most authority when dealing with matters of clear biblical command; a bit less when dealing with interpretation of Scriptures; less still when when dealing with matters of wisdom; and little when dealing with matters of personal preference. Ideally, mutual respect, humility and teachability keep this from being an issue.
3. A leaders character
The Bible gives a variety of character qualities that qualify a man for leadership. These qualities also keep a man qualified. The best safeguard is a man who exhibits these qualities in an increasing measure in his life. A man’s gifting, charisma, preaching style etc. is never a substitute for godly character.
4. Accountability
To be accountable means to be answerable to someone besides yourself. Leaders should be committed to relationships with other men with whom they can honestly confess sin and seek counsel and who will freely question and confront when warranted. For this reason among others, leadership in a local church should always be plural. We also have the protection of accountability to an extra-local apostolic team.
5. Appeal
Anyone has the right to question, discuss, or disagree with any decision or doctrine in the local church as long as they do so with a godly attitude and in a non-divisive way. Our commitment is to work out any such matters to the best of our ability to bring peace and unity to the church and to individual relationships. If matters can’t be resolved at one level within the church, you take them to another level, including to the apostolic team. lf matters still can’t be resolved, we will always release
people from membership in the church to pursue the direction they believe God has for them.
From “Our Journey Together”:
C. Maintain a biblical attitude toward your leaders.
To our individualistic culture, the Bible’s commands concerning leaders might seem antiquated or, perhaps, authoritative. Neither is the case. And, as with all the Bible’s commands, proper understanding and faith-filled obedience will result in blessing for ourselves and for the church as a whole. What should our attitude be characterized by?
1. A faith-filled submission
Hebrews 13:17: “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping
watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do
this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.”
Submission does not mean passivity or blind obedience. Rather, submission is an expression of faith towards God—that he has appointed leaders for us and he will use them for our good. It recognizes the critical role that leadership plays in bringing about God’s purposes in the church and in the lives of believers. Fundamentally, submission is an attitude: a disposition to affirm and support the leadership of the church, and to increase its effectiveness through joyful and faith-filled participation.
—————-
I would think that anyone can see the glaring difference.
How would you view these changes-better? Worse?
Were pre-2003 members aware of these changes? Should they have been made aware? (as an aside, I was aware of the changes, as I taught from both books. Carole was unaware. A care group leaders wife, and a leader of women’s ministries)
I was in “good solder mode”, and don’t recall if I was concerned at the time. When I taught from “the Journey”, I would supplement my notes with portions from “Foundations”. I don’t recall if I included this portion from “Foundations”. I really only remember teaching this chapter from “the Journey” once, as the scheduled teacher was unable to teach that day. It’s very possible that I taught this section more than once-I just can’t recall. I certainly know what I think about these changes now.
What are your thoughts?
June 20th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Quite a difference there, I’d say…
June 20th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I really believe that the authority issue is far too stressed in the SGM machine. The verses that speak of submission to leaders have been removed from context, in that they are not balanced by other verses, such as “My sheep know my voice”, and “there is only one Mediator, Jesus…” When someone takes a verse or two and stresses it over and over, a doctrine is created, one that is used to control the members of the body. We must see the word of God in its totality!
June 20th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
I always took that tendency the same way I look at balding middle-aged men driving expensive sports cars; they’re compensating for *something.*
June 20th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Ha-ha-ha-ha! Good analogy.
June 20th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
But seriously, during one of *those* sermons one of our former pastors was droning on ad tedium about submission and finally said if you had no one to submit to you….get a dog.
I kid you not.
June 20th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Get a dog? LOL!
Droning, huh? ROFL!
June 20th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I was particularly interested in the “Appeal” section;
“5. Appeal … If matters can
June 20th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Dan,
What a crock of poop. They had you completely stuck, based on their inaccurate assessment, all because you were honest and humble enough to share your heart.
I thank God, that in His goodness, He will never let you go. You don’t sound bitter, and it certainly doesn’t seem that this nonsense has effected your faith in Him. What grace!
I can do nothing but thank Him and commend you.
I too have concerns about the road ahead. A (non-SGM) pastor friend of mine also believes that SGM will in the future cover up pastoral sins that they now address. I’m hopeful, but do wonder what will happen when a great number of local pastors are the sons of other influential pastors or “apostles”.
Time will tell. I’m hoping, and working towards reform. But, as I’ve been told on this site, I’m no Luther.
God have mercy…
June 21st, 2008 at 11:13 am
I know Dave Harvey. Personally.
That defend to the hilt thing flows both ways.
In fact, make a mental note; when I mention our old pastor it will be Harvey or some other bloke that got drummed out because of his rebellous son. Another note: what did aforementioed son *do* to be so labeled? He had the audicity to start attending another church. Ooooo, the scandel.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:20 am
Also,
When parenting practiced advocated at SGM churches are deployed, children are not given the tools to be able to defend themselves.
Look an adult in the eye and greet. This doesn’t allow the child to hide behind their parents when they feel uneasy. It isn’t too many logical steps of ignoring the natural red flags to find a poor child in a compromising situation with an opportunistic predator.
The adult is always right. Learned helplessness. It must be my fault; it is always my fault. If I tell, they will discipline me for the lie or the sin I just committed with said opportunistic predator.
This is something that really haunts me at times. From what I know about pediphilic predators, they look for vulnerable children. Children reared in the SG environment are ripe for the picking. I know of no actual case, but the profile of the vulnerable child is there.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:25 pm
UGH! I hadn’t thought of that, DB. You know, I saw children forced to greet, even though they were shy. My shy kids have grown into very confident teens, as they were encouraged and had security in their home life. I didn’t have to “discipline” them into greeting people. How much of that kind of parenting is simply done to make the parents look good?
June 21st, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Same here, Canary.
I have had some extremely shy children, others have been more naturally extroverted.
The shy ones have become more social as they were allowed to unfold naturally.
In some of these circles, shyness seems to be regarded as a sinful state instead of either a normal temperament or a normal stage that some children experience.
And, yes, I have seen the practice of forcing children into some sort of coerced friendliness whose sole purpose seems to be making the parents look good/conforming to the church standard of behavior and expectations.
From a developmental perspective, it isn’t healthy.
June 21st, 2008 at 5:54 pm
I was wondering about exactly who and what ministries are suppose to be the so called authority in leadership?
June 21st, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Jim and carole: As I would always say and as I see you doing today. Be careful and yet courageous.
In Revelation 2 and 3 Jesus Himself started the conversation by engaging
June 21st, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Man what a mess in typos. Sorry.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Hi Pat,
First time here? If so, welcome!
CJ is the leader of what they used to call the apostolic team, but now call the leadership team. They still have an apostolic team, which are more like regional bishops.
I think that makes him the pope.
It’s beyond me that someone can proclaim himself the leader of a denomination, while talking so much about humility. At least the catholic bishops vote to decide who will be pope.
I also see no Biblical or historical precedent for calling one’s self an apostle today. None of the church fathers (those who led the church after the apostles died) used the term “apostle”. There is simply no precedent.
To answer your question; “can anyone…..”, I’m assuming it’s rhetorical, as we’re watching it happen.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Victorious,
I’m sorry about the typos.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Edit comment feature should be functioning again….
June 21st, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the welcome. Why do many of us play “follow the leader”? And just who raised up these so called leaders? Seminaries? Denominations? Just becuase someone has a semionary degreee, does he qualify as a leader? A teacher maybe, but a leader with authority? I think a lot of them just started their own churches, so they were the leader by default! Oh my!
June 21st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Pat,
CJ has no degree, and joking says that his High School graduation is questionable, although he’s clearly very bright and is very studied. He also has no denominational background, but was raised as a nominal catholic.
He (and other men) started a church, which started a movement. He has somehow managed to keep himself at the top of the heap.
The guy is clearly a mega leader, who will gather followers.
And I clearly see why pastors would want to be affiliated. SGM takes care of their pastors very well, and even small SGCs return the favor with loyalty and large contributions to “the mission”, which means SGM.
And the flock are treated like….sheep.
June 21st, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Hi Jim,
When you say he is well studied, does he understand Greek and Hebrew fluently? Hermeneutics and linguistics? I have heard no such knowledge in any of his teachings, of which I have heard many.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Pat
I would agree with you that Mahaney’s exegesis is deplorable in many instances.
June 22nd, 2008 at 7:15 am
I have to tell you, this post has messed me up a little.
June 22nd, 2008 at 8:38 am
Gracie
From what we have both seen, it sounds like that at least in some circles SG never really practiced what they said in the first membership training class they gave above.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Gracie,
I get you.
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I do have to add something for everyone’s consideration.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Canary
Good point.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Steve,
your speculation is along the same lines as my speculation.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:33 pm
CJ and SGM could end all conjecture if they were open and honest.
They are not-they sit in the seat of Moses, and we are all just dumb sheep.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:47 pm
It would be great if someone from the inside would come on here and give us facts about CJ’s accountability.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:59 pm
I’ll be “unpacking” my thoughts on the “Moses Principle”, and how it relates to SGM this week.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Steve Shenk and Brent Detweiler may still speak positive or in a quandary.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Good point.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:10 pm
CJ Mahaney and Hermeneutics and Exegetics in the same sentence
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Canary said (post 26):
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
John,
THAT is the post of the week.
Very well stated and dead on.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:03 am
John,
Well said.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:10 am
John,
June 24th, 2008 at 8:16 am
I agree the buck stops with CJ.
I also agree that we must remember, in spite of all the pain we have collectively suffered, that CJ is a brother in Christ and it is our duty, as Christians, to continue in love.
This is not easy, honestly, I’m the worst out of the bunch, but he is a borther in Christ. This does not mean we should ignore the facts or not broach difficult topics, however.
I agree that CJ has insulated himself from critics leading to dangerous (or, in the least, potentially dangerous,) circumstances in which CJ weilds more power than a mere mortal should have.
June 24th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Well said, DB.
I agree with everything you said, and would only add that there are times when the most loving thing to do is to confront a brother (or a movement) caught in sin. Caught as in ensnared/trapped, not “I caught you!”.
I would add (to my comment), that this type of confrontation isn’t for everyone. I could not have started this blog a year ago, because my motivation would have been out of anger, and not out of love. Or more accurately, my motivation would have been different every day, as I was in the midst of detox.
June 24th, 2008 at 9:49 am
It is, ahem, more in my nature to react in anger as well. I have been learning on an unrelated venue to not respond in kind but to be loving in *spite* of how nasty the other person behaves. It sounds so darn elementary, but I have a strong personality (hence the poor fit at PDI/SG churches,) and it has taken and is still taking a life time to learn what some people learn in childhood.
There’s a Bible verse somewhere about the anger of man achieving naught….where is that verse?
Anyway, I am prattling on mostly for my own benefit, but these are our brothers and we will be spending forever with them in heaven.
June 24th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Not the same verse, but James 1:20 comes to mind.
June 24th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Close enough, I’ll take it. I think my head was in the OT scriptures, but that one will do just fine. Thanks.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
DB,
Women with strong personalities did not fit well in SGM.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Canary said:
June 24th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Sheesh John,
How do I pick a comment of the week if you keep one-upping yourself?
June 25th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
btw, in reference to loving CJ as a brother, I think CJ needs to read Daniel chapter 4 and repent. I pray God truly humbles him.
Personally, when actions are as questionable as his are and for as long as his have been, I think it’s time he “checked his ticket” to make sure what team he is actually on. In looking at the fruit of “his” ministry, it certainly isn’t of the Spirit. And is controlled by other spirits to a dangerous degree. Idolatry is serious stuff.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Jim and Carole – my church was recently adopted (I can’t say exactly when it would give away which church and I wish to remain anonymous at this time) but suffice it to say it was after your church was adopted. We never had any type of pre-membership classes. I am curious about the “play books” the leadership may have. All we had access to were those silly little pamphlets pushing polity and election. So my question is, as someone who was in leadership, what exactly IS a church told pre-adoption? How much is revealed post-adoption as ot what you’ve signed on for? Do churches actually sign a convenant? I’m wondering about what all my former church did. There was no talk at all.
Incidentally, I spoke with a friend who still goes to the SGM church – the congregation was “informed” that a young pastor from a sister church would be coming to the church next year afte rhe finished pastors college. As some of oyu know, the assoc pastor/elder stepped down a couple weeks ago with a lame excuse of going into missions – which may or may not be true, but he did have a heart for overseas missions (i.e. church planting with SGM) SO they are positioning their people quite nicely.