I know of pastors who have informed their care group leaders of this site and the uncensored site. I don’t know how they prefaced them but I do pray that God will use these two sited to reveal truth and bring repentance beginning with the leaders. I pray for courage and boldness for those who bring concerns to their leaders. For the leaders, I pray for humility and a softness to receive what they hear and that they sincerely care for those who bring their concerns. I pray that unity in the church will be achieved and that more people will be drawn closer to Jesus. May God receive all of the glory.
Okay, everyone. I have a prayer requests. My daughter, 22, is having some health issues that the doctor cannot get to the bottom of. She has had what they thought was a bleeding ulcer and all manner of digestion problems. After having done an endoscopy and a gall bladder ultrasound with the results being completely normal, the doctor is on a watch and see mode for now. Meanwhile, my daughter has terrible, unexplained pain on a fairly regular basis. We need wisdom from God on what to do next.
I can’t tell you what it means to me to be able to put this request out there to folks I know will pray. Thank you so much.
so, what do we think is actually told to their cgl and pastors about these sites? I am thinking it is only a manner of time before my former pastor becomes aware of my blog where I posted all his emails to me! Are we labeled as “under discipline?, slanderous, etc.
Could you guys please pray for my friend “Sally” who is still in the SGM church I recently left? I went over to her house tonight and we had a four hour talk about the Lord, our walks, SGM, the church, all kinds of stuff. It was VERY obiovus the Lord has been busy with her heart – which is a praise – but she said her husband (who is a considering PC next year) made a comment recently about her “not becoming anti-Sovereign Grace” – she said she wasn’t sure why he said this.
I asked if anyone had talked to her about our friendship, because when
A praise report!! Some time ago I asked you guys for prayer for my friends who are still in the SGM church I left – my close friend’s husband was planning to go to Pastor’s College next year…he went to the Worship Conference at the “Mother Church” this past weekend. While he was gone I spent some time with my friend, “Sally” and we prayed that this weekend the Lord would give her husband direction – to close the door to SGM PC (if that was His will), and to give some sort of direction for his calling.
I’ve been very concerned for this young man and his wife…I love them dearly..and oculd see the legalism building and them falling deeper into bondage. well, she told me today that he came back from the conference saying he doesn’t think he is supposed to be a Sovereign Grace pastor, but he still feels called to pastor, but won’t be going to PC next year.
PRAISE GOD!!!! Thanks for your prayers! Please continue to remember them and ask the Lord to reveal, redeem, and restore “the years the locusts have taken” since being at SGM. They are not planning to leave the church that I know of, although the wife is praying for the Lord’s leading whatever that may be. Seems He is opening her eyes and she is hungering for Him, which is causing her to think of “other things” non-SGM. But they have a long hard battle ahead of them..
concerned,
From your comment a bit above about pastors finding out about these blogs…
My pastors are already aware of them and have seen them.
I’m curious, what are your first thoughts in them knowing and seeing what is written here? You said something about them seeing the emails you’d posted… does that scare you? Does that make you feel bad for posting them? Or maybe the opposite?
Pennylane, what is the response from the pastor’s when they hear of the blogs? My guess would be similar to the Wizard of Oz when he was exposed: “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!”
It used to put me in a panic when I thought about what my pastors would think, or what they may be saying about me. But I pressed on, posting the emails. If you read my blog you’ll see a real fear manifest at one point when my pastor emailed me out of the blue several weeks after I left. I thought I was going to die of fear! The Lord used it to show me I still had fear of man, and needed to cultivate a fear of HIM. When we fear GOd, what can man do to us?
I am of course not saying I would do anything not prompted by love for others. I don’t have an agenda for vengeance or exposing. The Lord does that. But thorugh my words I pray others will be set free. All I can do is speak the truth, give my testimony, and pray the Lord works.
I don’t feel bad or fearful anymore for posting anything. It is the truth. And the truth sets us free.
I think everyone in SGM should take a test. A test to see if you are in bondage. If, after taking the test you find you are, then get free! (and some may be able to do this and not leave their churches, who knows) But at least have the courage to take the test, what do you have to lose except the chains that bind you? At least you’ll now one way or another if you are or not.
So to you guys who are still in an SGM church: The test would be to abstain from any and all Sovereign Grace Ministries activities for one month. No care group, no Sunday meetings, no fellowship with others from the SGM church. No reading blogs from SGM people. Fast from all things Sovereign Grace for one month. Be willing to sacrifice what they call ”dearest place on earth” for the real dearest place on earth: being in the presence of your Father. No books from other authors, just read the Word of God. No sovereign grace pastor’s sermons, or SGM music. Just the Lord and you. Only fellowship with people who don’t go to your church. Just try it and see what happens.
If you find yourself in a panic because you are afraid you will fall away, or are worried what others would think of you if you did these things, then that is your first sign you are in bondage. No need to go further. In other words, if you aren’t willing to fast from all things SGM then ask yourself why? My guess is you’ll find you are in bondage from the start and that is why you are unwilling.
My brother (Jordan) is going under the knife this afternoon: a few months ago the tendon on his right bicep detached from… well… wherever it connects around his shoulder. He’s since been dealing with a lot of pain as doctors tried to tell him it was no big deal, but he got an MRI a few days ago and now they’re performing surgery this afternoon.
This has been quite an ordeal for him, especially dealing with “authorities” who wouldn’t listen to his insistence that this was a serious problem (anyone here able to relate to that?).
So, I just want to ask y’all to please pray that the surgery will go smoothly and that his recovery will be quick and complete.
Concerned,
Good idea and even better than “No SGM” for a month, I’d recommend periodically going to a different church for a month – something different from what I am accustomed to. I think it would be useful exercise for any believer. There are several benefits:
1) Get to see how God works in different setting and by various means
2) I am often tempted to become attached to certain ideas, preferences, and unwritten rules over time – it’s human nature. Having my sacred cows slaughtered on a regular basis encourages humility, wisdom, and reliance on God
3) Make new friends
4) Hear a different perspective on the same topics you’ve been hearing about for years
5) Build confidence in your relationship with God as you see Him work in your life in any context
One of the issues at SGM that became increasingly problematic for me was the isolation from most of the body of Christ. SGM will not work with anyone they do not agree with within a very narrow set of criteria. When I got involved in missions, I encountered a completely different culture of collaboration and cooperation. Also, I’ve switched churches twice in 25 years, and I’m contemplating a third move now. Each time I have had to relearn how to do ministry and how to view church polity.
I’m not recommending becoming butterflies, going here and there without committed friendships and working relationships, just that I need to get out more often, and that it is very health to do so.
Which brings me to pastoral care. SGM has always justified its small world as “protecting the sheep”, but who are they protecting? Paul said to the Corinthians, “You have many guardians but few fathers.” As a father, I want my son to be confident in any situation, so I intentionally expose him different a and sometimes challenging experiences. I’m always there to spot him if he falls, but I love it when he conquers a new challenge and beams, “Wow, that was cool Dad!”
I’m not just bashing SGM, but asking wider question. Do we need to re-thing the nature of pastoral care? As leaders, are we tempted to simply guard people like hired nannies and make sure they behave, or are we fathering spiritual children? I know I have been guilty of the former, but would prefer to do the later.
Finally, I’ve been listening to Bible on CD, and I’m in Corinthians right now. Even though Paul gave quite a few specific command and rebukes, the whole tone of his discourse is a loving and affectionate appeal, knowing the risk that they could choose to respond or not respond. Fortunately they did for the most part. I’ve not found much of the father type of apostleship in US churches. Does anyone get what I am saying?
Oh yeah, good point: an updated might be appreciated.
My brother’s surgery was postponed from Thursday to (last) Friday, and afterward the doctor told my sister-in-law (bro was still conked out) that it went better than he had anticipated! Little brother called me on their way back home to say thanks for the prayers, and while he’s looking at a 6-week recovery period, he’s already back at work.
So there’s my praise for the week! (See, it was all intentional…)
I am really under it right now, and simply need the joy of the Lord. Protracted health issues aside, after reading the posts regarding a former SGM pastor of mine, I feel my hand is being forced to reveal my identity. I keep vascillating whether or not to reveal it, as sharing even mundane details of my story will definitely reveal it to some here, and I fear the revelation will have rippling effect in the SGM church I now attend.
I may be blowing all of this out of proportion, but as you can see, FEAR has become a part of my vocabulary in new way… I’m just not able to endure all of this, and need your prayers. The ice is breaking.
PK,
I have been reading your posts both here and on the survivors blog. From my own experience in PDI, I remember the fear you are feeling quite well. Be assured we are praying for you.
May God fill you with His peace and make clear His path… may He remove the fear from your mind and heart.
Father, I ask that You accomplish these things, that You would speak to PK and guide and direct him in this matter. May Your voice be the One Voice that overrides all others. Comfort PK, grant him Your peace and Your unrelenting joy… shower him with Your presence, lead him in Your way. In the precious Name of Your Son, Amen.
Thank you all for your prayers. I will consider carefully, Jim, and keep my trap shut for now. I’m thinking the wisest course of action is to allow the Holy Spirit governance of my emotions, as He is the great Comforter and is wisest of all.
It is my hope that if we at SGM indeed read these blogs, that there is a sobering up taking place right now rather than a Rat Squad behavior of getting ready to bust people.
I used to be proud of “Reformed in Essence with Charismatic Distinctives,” but this has left way too many loopholes to wiggle around both branches of theology.
Again, I earnestly believe the two can be reconciled, but the attempt to do so at SGM has been vague, to say the least… almost as if there is a deliberate plodding so that an “anything goes” style of leadership has become cancerous and is now eating itself from the outside-in; an implosion, if you will. No wonder conspiracy theories are constantly flying! We haven’t developed a detailed confessional, and we treat our theology like a salad bar. Who knows what’s on the plate today? What fad will start now? Who will get shifted to make room for Current Superstar or Current Relative in the leadership position? I fear for my own church in wake after wake of this sloppy mess! This is like discovering a body in shallow grave behind someone’s barn, only for the cops to show up and find thousands of graves covering the entire acreage.
I am so heavy in heart and so filled with repulsion, I can’t breathe. I was frantically trying to pull out roots of bitterness, some I didn’t even know were there. This morning I gave up and pled with God for Him and Him alone to do the root pulling, because running on my own strength in trying to comprehend all of this is simply madness.
Dear God, let me not charge You in any of this…
Dear Jesus, intervene and save us. Lord, protect my marriage in all of this. Holy Spirit, come!
PK, peace will come in fits and starts, but it will come. It just won’t come at your bidding. Please remember God isn’t surprised by what you’re discovering, and wishes to cover you with his wings of protection. When I was coming out of SGM, I learned more than ever before, to run into Christ like a fortress and let him be identity and my protection. May you experience this same revelation and its peaceful result.
You wrote “…we treat our theology like a salad bar. Who knows what’s on the plate today? ” This has been going on since the beginning of PDI/SGM. If you had proposed full-bore Reformed theology in 1983, you would’ve been kicked out, just as quickly as someone today who might ask why the gospel isn’t preached “with signs and wonders following.”
Mahaney used to say, “Constant change is here to stay.” His reason for that was to get everyone used to continuing changes in leadership, home-group arrangements, etc. The real meaning went far deeper, as we now understand: everything was in a state of flux, with the exception of leadership being in 100% control, and able to change direction without accountability.
I was reviewing all of these prayers and was very overwhelmed with gratitude all over again.
Thanks again, everyone for your prayers, and please know I am still praying for you.
I have a job offer (there will be a few months before it starts) that seems fairly ideal for accomodating my health issues, so I am praising God this morning. He’s still worthy of my praise in what I percieve as valleys, but this morning is special as a crack of dawn seems to be breaking through (not so much financially as it is spiritually).
I still have a heavy heart for my church and SGM in general, as I pray for reform, even if it comes in sputtering at different levels.
God used the situation with my former pastor’s (forced) resignation/reassignment/whatever to increase my reliance on Him, and not fall victim to the aftershocks of cults of personality I so vehemently preach against on this blog. God is faithful!
I wanted to offer a praise report as well. Many of you read earlier about my daughter with digestive issues. She has been through tests and prescriptions with no help. Over the last few weeks, she has been using some over the counter medicines that her doctor recommended, plus some goodies from the health food store. For the first time in quite a while, she is eating and processing food normally. She still has some stomach sensitivities, but there is distinct improvement. Thank the Lord!
I haven’t posted in a while. Some of the drive-by guys were just a bit too much for me, so I’ve been taking a break.
If you think of it, please say a little prayer for me. I’ve been out of SG for a while, but I’m really dealing with some overwhelming feelings of confusion and fear. I know it was the right thing to do (leaving), but it’s still so hard when most of my friends and family are still there.
Hi Summer, good to see you again!!
I just prayed for you – I know how very hard it is to leave. Those conflicting feelings are hard to deal with sometimes! It does get better though after awhile.
Hey Summer,
I was actually thinking about you today, wondering where you have been. I think it is pretty normal for these emotions to come in waves. I’ll be praying for you!
Gracie! I was told by a VERY reliable source that today is a special day!
Happy Birthday, Dear Gracie!!!
May God continue to pour His amazing grace into your life in the coming year(s)!
I love you! (and owe you an email… life is kinda crazy right now, and I’ve been hit and miss around The Refuge… mostly miss… but I can’t wait to get back to having our “coffee chats”!)
Oh, I see. I just went over to the survivors blog and discovered my sister’s message! Isn’t she sweet? (Even if she outed me on my birthday – at least she didn’t say how old!)
I have been sidelined by recent illness and personal matters (a perfect storm of sorts)… apologies for the MIA status (Jim I have emailed you with the details).
I covet everyone’s prayers and promise to post later today or tomorrow.
You are in my thoughts, today. During the difficult times, we get to see the Lord as our Comforter. It is precious to know Him like that. I hope you sense His presence in a special way this week.
Hello all,
I would really appreciate your prayers right now as I feel as if I’m fighting a battle, with myself, with God and with fellow Christians around me. My eyes are really being opened to the problems caused by the church I’ve grown up in and how it has affected me and others around me in negative ways and it’s caused turmoil and angst in my soul as I wrestle every day with what to do and when to act. I’ve silently started looking for other churches in the area, but haven’t gotten the chance to visit one yet. What makes this all the more hard is God seems so far away during this time, I find myself asking, is this really the best time to leave my church and find another one? But then I argue with myself that maybe a different church, a more grace-filled church would allow me to get closer to God. My Christian friends have been little help as they are all distracted with their own lives, leaving me feeling more alone than ever. I’m really at a loss of what to do other than pray, which doesn’t seem like its helping much either.
dear saints, please intercede for me before our Father for peace and discernment, and more importantly for me to feel his presence beside me, holding my hand and guiding me.
Dear Eponine,
I understand how you feel, many of us here do, for we remember those feelings well from our own experiences. I will pray for you too, my dear little sister.
You are in my prayers! I definately understand how you are feeling as I have just left my church. I have spent my whole life there (I am 20 years old) and have never know anything else. I can relate to those questons you have, as I’ve been considering that for the past year, and even now still wonder if I made the right choice. God has been good though and provided me with friends who I’ve been able to talk to and walk this out with. If you ever want to talk please feel free to email me at notw.forsaken@gmail.com
you wrote: But then I argue with myself that maybe a different church, a more grace-filled church would allow me to get closer to God.
Can I just encourage you, beloved, that all you need to get closer to God you already have? It is your relationship to Him through the finished work of Christ - HE is our HIgh Priest – we need no one else to speak for us, to teach us, intercede for us, or be our confessor, this is not the role of the Church, it is the role of Christ that the church has usurped.
Psalm 16 comes to mind, one verse in particular verse 11: “You will make known to me the path of life;In Your presence is fullness of joy; In Your right hand there are pleasures forever.”
SGM (and many other churches and denominations) make you think you can’t be close to God without them, or you can’t have real joy apart from the Body – but both are a lie. Read God’s Word, and find rest, peace, joy, passion, purpose, satisfaction, accountability, and guidance into all truth in the Person of Jesus Christ.
He won’t let you down. Just look to Him! I’m praying for you – Juli
I was out of the loop here for a while, apparently when PK went MIA..can someone tell me why he isn’t around anymore? Is he sick? Did the SGM leadership figure out who he was and approach him? What’s going on with him?
Thank you all for your prayers and support during this confusing time. I’m glad to know prayers are being lifted up to the Father from his people.
Juli, thanks for the reminder that all I really need is God. This can be so hard to remember, especially when God seems so far away. I tend to tell myself that I must be doing something wrong to make him not want to be near, or that the teaching at church is too dry or that i need to make a list of things to do to get closer to him. But that is legalistic. Our God isn’t a God of rules and steps to follow, he is a God who loves us unconditionally.
I’m so grateful for a few friends who have grown up in the same church and still understand what I’m talking about! Stuck, thanks for the invitation to talk to you… I may take you up on that. Thanks!
PK,
I hope you are doing alright, we miss you around here!
PK has some health issues (the details of which I do not completely know,)
I know he is struggling.
I miss him and his contribution to this discussion. I find his writing to be challenging and helpful. I hope he gets strong and healthy enough to return to this forum.
Could you guys please pray about an “unspoken” request? I can’t give details just yet, but please pray that the Lord would reveal the hearts of the leadership at my former SGM church to the people there. There are many from my former church that read my blog, and likely this one and survivors as well, but they aren’t talking about it to anyone that I know of, including me..but they are reading. Please pray that the Lord would not allow those who desire to seek Him more to be trapped, deceived, or manipulated by leadership right now. Because everything in me says that there is an increasing spirit of control there, and my brothers and sisters are in grave danger. Please pray the Lord would work, and be gracious to them. I don’t mean to sound “charismatic” with my terminology, but I am being honest when I say I discern a spirit at work that mocks the Spirit of God, and is working secretly setting snares for the people..and it makes me want to cry.
thanks Gracie. I spent a good time in prayer today with the Lord..He calmed my fears. Things will play out here as He wills – I trust Him, even if it is difficult to watch others go through..but you can’t rescue people or make them see what you do – you only end up angry or fearful, like I was..so I am just committing them to prayer and keeping quiet
Hey all I was wondering if you could be praying for my former church? With everything that has gone on over the last two weeks I felt God asking me to step out and I did. God has already done much and I am anticipating that He will continue to do more. Anyway I think something is going to happen tomorrow so if you could just pray that God will continue to be moving among His sheep it would be appreciated.
Thanks Gracie and DB! I know God’s in control and that He hasn’t given me a spirit of fear (I am not afraid of man and He’s carried me through) but I am still slightly anxious because I have heard rumor of what is going to be talked about. Apparently they are going to talk about the letter I sent.
Juli said, “..but you can’t rescue people or make them see what you do – you only end up angry or fearful, like I was..so I am just committing them to prayer and keeping quiet”
Juli, I have been so upset, so many times in my life by wishing, wishing o so hard, that people could see what I think is so obvious, that they could have the joy and relationship with Jesus. If I could, I’d like to share a little story about this. When I was about 5 or 6, I found out that this one little boy in my class (the biggest kid in the class, actually), didn’t believe God existed let alone know that he was loved by this amazing god. I was shaken. How could he make it through his day, his life, without knowing God was there to walk beside him and love him. I spoke with my mom about, ssssooooo upset. I didn’t know what to do. I had tried to speak to the boy, but he couldn’t see what i was telling him. I was crying to my mom. I was confused. How could ___________ not know what seemed so obvious, the most vital thing on earth? That he was LOVED by God himself! I was begging my mom, or God, or someone to help me understand. And my mom said this to me. “People can not see, until God gives them the eyes to see. They just can’t.” It was partly vexxing and partly comforting. I couldn’t make ____________ see that God loved him. I couldn’t convince him. And i couldn’t expect him to see. It was God who gave sight to the blind man. And it was God who would give this boys eyes to see that God loved him. All I could do was be God’s instrument, but no matter how hard someone tried to see, no matter how hard I tried to convince them, it was GOD who gave sight as He saw fit. I think I wore myself out that day until I was finally able to give it to God, knowing that He could carry that burden better than I. To this day, remembering that sometimes gives me comfort. It sometimes vexes me. I still cry, “Why God? Why can’t you just show them/me/us/everyone…?!” But finally, I always remember that they can’t see until He gives them sight to see. And it makes me release the burden to Him, a little bit more easily.
notw. wow, they’ll be discussing your letter. how scary/exciting/wonderful/stomach knotting! I pray His words shine through whatever you wrote. I pray His spirit says what He wants them to hear. And I pray He gives them eyes to see Him and Him alone through it all. (Like when the FBI wants to figure out what a fake dollar bill is, they don’t study all the fakes. They study the original. That way when something is not right, they can spot it. I pray we all become like that. Know HIM so well, so intimately, that anything that is not Him glares like a … it’s late, glares like whatever something that glares really well glares. Please let us know how it goes if you find out.
“Know HIM so well, so intimately, that anything that is not Him glares like a … it’s late, glares like whatever something that glares really well glares.”
yeah, ellie, i’m a literary genius. (Oh, if only you could see me roll my eyes at myself. one more writing class coming up on thursday. please pray for me. for some odd reason the academics don’t quite….ahhh, appreciate my style.)
notw, I will pray as well – I guess I am out of the loop didn’t know about a letter you sent. Where did you explain all this?
Well, days of revelation are close ahead for my former SGM church as well – some important ”events” also coming up soon – things are popping, that’s for sure.
I’m soo glad I am gone…but my heart continues to break for those deceived and in the spiritual trap still…
Ellie, they were planning on speaking about this at the cg I used to attend. Apparently they switched plans as to what they are talking about but I am sure that they will get around to it soon. I heard that the pastor who was going to speak got sick.
Juli, this was my first post mentioning anything about the letter. I sent it last week and have since had many conversations. I was vague in what I wrote and basically mentioned the fact that something was going down in SGM. I felt that as a friend (even though God will be the one to open their eyes) I had a responsibility to at least warn them. I think I scared the pastors because they never knew me to be one to speak out.
The last service I went to was the Christmas eve one so like a month I guess.
Yes, I still (or at least did before this e-mail) talked to many of my friends but I am not expecting much interaction now. Relations were good because at that point they saw me as doing the “right thing” in how I left compared to how my parents left. I am guessing that the shunning will start now but am ok with that…I already weigh the cost of my e-mail. I’ll have to see how the next couple of weeks go but I believe a few people may still keep in touch.
so your parents left before you did? Was there any talk to you about them being deceived or in sin or something?
Well, from my own experience, I left peacefully and quietly, and I was still shunned, told I was deceived, and I did “everything right”. Sometimes the system is so flawed that your actions have no impact on such things. So I started a blog – figured, “what have I got to lose?”
So now people shun me “publicly” (as opposed to a private shunning if that makes sense) and feel justified because of my blog. Thing is, they shunned me BEFORE the blog, but seem to forget that detail.
They think it is OK for them to treat me the way they do because now, because of my blog,I am in sin.
Oh well. Don’t want friends like that anyway, more loyal to the church than Christ. I want friends sold out to Jesus, not enough time really for me to fart around with lukewarm believers…double-minded disciples…whatever you want to call them, shunning is wrong. ANd I hope you don’t experience it! But I have a feeling you will..
Yeah my parents left in October. They didn’t specifically say anything like they are in sin, but basically they let me know, that I was honoring God in how I spoke to the pastors about my issues first. My father sent an e-mail sharing why they left and that got them all upset.
I feel that same way when it comes to the what have I got to lose. God’s taken me through a lot, and much of the last two years, I have been alone in the sense of not really having friends. This isn’t a new thing and I considered what it would be like to lose the relationships that I do care about (that are real) and still feet it was worth it. If this is the worst persecution I will face then it is a very small price to pay.
Hi Juli
I’m NOTW’s mom. When we left it came as a shock to everyone. My husband basically was frustrated with the patronizing counsel given him when he would approach the pastors. So he nailed his thesis to the email door. We had been warned about the “meetings” that would insue so he refused to meet with them. My daughter,being 20 and a member, was given our blessing to “go for it” so to speak. I am easily intimitated by the pastors and would NEVER have been able to do what she’s done. At 58, my brain just doesn’t think as fast to be able to withstand the onslaught of doublespeak. So the pastors feel we were wrong in how we left and my daughter did it the “biblical” way.
While I’ve admired your daughter for the brief time I’ve “met” her here, I don’t get why your style of leaving violated the Bible.
And if we’re going to talk about Biblical separations, I sure don’t regard Covenant Fullofit’s methodology of dismembering my family and me as anything even close enough to cast a shadow upon Biblical.
Do you understand that your membership is in the CHURCH, not SGM. You are free to leave your SGM body anytime, and come worship with any other gathering of the CHURCH–you have no allegiance to your particular church.
There is no reason to have any fear to leave your particular gathering of the CHURCH. If you have fear, it is from the ENEMY, not from the Holy Spirit.
Dwell on that idea, please, and try to refute it from Scripture. God is not the author of fear.
I wrote an “Ode to Sovereign Grace” some months back, I think I will share it again here, cause you reminded me of it with the implications SGM makes that they are the “elect of the elect” if there was such a thing!
This is an ode to sovereign grace
forgive me as I hide my face
from all the abuse contained therein
and press on, the prize to win.
You see, this group is quite content
with the apostles they have sent
to oversee the struggling flock
battered sheep, so the boat won’t rock
Let me explain what you will hear
if you happen to visit a church that is near:
“your heart is wicked, you’re totally depraved”
it makes one wonder how can we be saved?
Never forget you’re chosen and elect
never mind your life is a spiritual wreck
You see God’s sovereign, don’t you know?
No need to worry as your children grow.
Because you’re saved, they probably are too,
so it doesn’t really matter what you do.
But you better homeschool, and have control
this shows their names are on the Roll.
Ladies, always modest you must be
dressed demure and practically.
But with your husband when no one’s looking,
better dress like you’re going hookin’.
Praise your leaders, often and well
if you hear gossip, always tell!
Buy their books, no matter the cost
don’t spend your money to reach the lost!
As for your music, it better be approved
or else you really won’t be moved.
Don’t mind if it’s all about sin that indwells
it’s to keep you humble, and “humble” sells.
You should attend all church functions and meetings
so you can share what you’ve been needing.
But once you ask, needs are only met
until your loyalties are set.
Then you must start to serve the others-
pastors first, then sisters and brothers.
Ladies make meals, men cut grass
if you complain, you’re out on your ______
We don’t like discernment, boldness or spunk
If you’ve got advice, we’ll think it’s junk.
You say you hear the voice of the Lord?
Have you’ve been playing with a Ouija board?
Because you’re too depraved to know if it’s true
better let us “speak some truth” into you.
Then your decisions will be pleasing and right
don’t mind if you’re Bible is out of sight.
You can’t know anyway, remember your heart?
You really need us to remind you of that part.
It’s wicked and sinful and you’re spiritually dead
apart from the grace that we’ve already said..
comes only to those who are chosen and elect,
and so many happen to be in our sect!
So just sit down here and settle right in..
Cause you need us as long as you’re still in your sin.
Your poem is rockin’. Someone should put music to it!
I wondered if others here would pray for me. I have recently found that I have a bad, herniated disc. I am unable to care for my family the way that I usually do. It is a little disheartening and I need patience! Thanks!
notw… Wow! That was a very courageous thing to do… I have no doubt that God will work through your obedience to Him and your love for His people! Praying for you… keep us posted,okay?
Ladies, always modest you must be
dressed demure and practically.
But with your husband when no one’s looking,
better dress like you’re going hookin’.
Heh heh.
Notw,
You and Anxious have been on my heart. God bless you for your courage and boldness. We will be praying for your voice to be heard and for Truth to penetrate, especially on Tuesday.
Canary,
It’s good to hear from you, though I’m sorry to hear about your back. I’ll be sure to pray for you and your family. Wish we lived closer, I’d come over and help you.
I found this site through SGM survivors. I shared some of my story there at comment #397 on the SGM Seeks thread.
Please pray for our family. Soon after we left our church last summer, our finances were drastically affected by the market woes. This was such a blow as we were still reeling from the former church situation.
Please pray for my husband’s current simultaneous efforts to build a business as he also searches for a job. Other stresses have also included my health.
I would truly appreciate prayers. This has been such a hard, hard season for us. I long for His comfort and to know the reality of His abiding and loving presence.
At some point perhaps I will share some more of my story here.
You are definitely in our prayers, dear one! May He give you much grace, much peace, much love and comfort, and may you and your husband hear His Voice and feel His guiding Hand as you walk through this difficult season.
Dear INC,
Welcome to the refuge! I hear the weariness you must be feeling in your post. To have the added stress of the economy and job loss on top of SGM decompression is a lot to deal with. And then health issues as well. You know, there have been several folks here who have had health issues arise or worsen as they faced the task of exiting SGM. I will pray for strength for the journey and for the Lord to lavish more of His love, peace and comfort on you and your dear family.
I wanted to let you know that we have been sending out resumes.
My husband did talk with a recruiter this evening. The original position my husband applied for online was not a match because of some very specific parameters the company wanted. The recruiter emailed him last week and my husband sent back an email on Friday. Tonight the recruiter did call and tell my husband he liked what he saw in the resume and he will let him know if a better match comes up. It was encouraging to actually get a call rather than no response or just an email.
This afternoon my husband also told me that he really thinks that he is going to have to concentrate on just finding a job. This was sad for him as he’d so hoped the business would work out. However, the clarity will help with time and concentration.
Since this blog is a community, I’ll ignore my reticence and post a request here. As many of you know, part of God’s plan for me to get beyond SGM is to get back into mission work. I’ve had a long term desire to minister to Persian-speaking peoples (Iranians, Tajiks, Afgans, etc). The good news is that my church hired a missions pastor and a staff of three to organize missions work. We have a goal of sending several hundred people on short term missions trips this year. I applied to go to Iran for prayer walking. Unfortunately our church’s trip was cancelled due to lack of interest. Only one other person applied (doesn’t everyone want to go to Iran right now!?). The pastor forwarded my application to a para church org that organizes these trips and encouraged me to work with them. (Note for SGMers: I can mobilize and raise support even if my trip is not church sponsored.)
So, I may need to recruit a team or go with a team from another church. Please pray that God would open a door for effective ministry in Iran this summer. Thanks!
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Dearest Stein,
You say that this is your prayer: 10 “Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
I would like to add that this most likely is the prayer and desire of most if not all on this blog. I would like to refer to Eph. 6:18, 19, 20 ”Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perserverance and supplication for all the saints – and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.”
When a counterfeit gospel is being preached as it has been within SGM churches resulting in the saints being abused and led astray among other things, then we are to speak boldly, proclaiming the true Gospel. We are to be perfectly joined together in the same mind and same judgment which is the mind and judgment of Jesus Christ, not the mind of men who are creating their own doctrines for their own purposes. Peace and unity at all costs and without truth are not peace and unity. We are to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.” (Eph. 5:11) and we are to speak boldly the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Actually, some of the fastest growing churches in the Muslim world are in Iran, albeit underground. The more difficult task is to get American churches to do anything to help them.
Just say no to —Kool aid So now that SGC Chesapeake has changed their stance doctrinally on a number of issues, are you still accusing them of preaching a counterfeit gospel. Be careful about making such a broad judgment. What part of their gospel do you think is counterfeit? Not all SGM churches are even preaching the exact same doctrine on every issue, as they may differ slightly.
Greg,
How exciting to get back to your mission work! Just this last week, a missionary from Indonesia spoke at church. In February, he is scheduled to share how to approach Muslims with the gospel. Apparently, they have seen quite a bit of good fruit from their ministry there. I’m excited to hear him!
Will be delighted to pray for your summer opportunity to line up. Blessings!
Put on your seat belt and brace yourself, you are going to have a really exciting ride! What a burden to have on your heart. I can’t imagine going to Iran under any conditions.
Let us know when you find a group with whom to associate so we can all pray for you while you’re abroad.
When I get discouraged about life these days, I have only to contrast it to last year and praise God for growth, for change, for help and healing.
Last year, when Jake and I fought on the way to school, he wound up at the Crisis Center, then at Children’s Hospital’s ER, and then at the Psych Institute of Washington.
This year, when Jake and I fought on the way to school, he walked home 10 miles–an unexcused absence but an effective coping strategy–one Jake uses often.
Last year, after leaving PIW, my sonshine was living with my mom–and everyone was angry.
This year, my sonshine lives at home–and while anger lingers, it does not live here.
Last year, I could only cry and rage in extreme duress. I felt helpless and hopeless.
This year, I set limits and enforce boundaries better — and I am learning to tell the truth about how I feel and what I think. Becca is a good role model for this.
Last year, we were fighting MCPS to reinstate Jake’s special education coding–to the point we had to retain our own psychologist for testing and a lawyer to make MCPS do the right thing.
This year, Jake has his accommodations, including a resource period and a quiet place to take exams.
Last year, I only knew I couldn’t stay at Covenant Life Church another minute.
This year, I have found a home at the Episcopal Church of the Ascension: the rector Randy looks me in the eye and talks to me as one thinking adult to another, the assistant rector Jessica has been so good to my kids, and while getting to know folks has been slow, it’s been real. I get to be a reader at the 5:00 service; Becca likes the Sunday School and was a shepherd in the pageant; and Jake comes to church with me occasionally and is trying the youth group.
Further, I have two safe places to work through my grief and anger with Sovereign Grace Ministries: www.sgmsurvivors.com and http://www.sgmrefuge.com These sites have provided a forum for so many to process some of the distinctives NOT mentioned in the official websites/marketing information: the way the churches “shoot the wounded” rather than tending to them, the corrosive effects of sin-sniffing and authoritarian control, and the blinding loyalty to brand and to leaders.
Acme, praise the Lord for HIs continued grace towards you – it encourages me as well, thank you for sharing..so glad you are in a better place in all areas of your life. Amazing when we seek first the Kingdom of God and His rightousness (not our own through our churches!) everything else is added unto us! I am beginning to experience this as well in my own life..
I decided to update here. If you scroll up a few comments you’ll see my request for prayer regarding work for my husband. Well, many resumes, letters and calls later he is still looking. Last week he found that one company he’d been talking with since February has been bought by another and he will have to go back to square one with the new people. He continues to have several irons in the fire, and we are waiting to hear from a couple of places. This has been very discouraging and stressful. I struggle with fears about the future.
Another thing that has happened is that last Sunday afternoon my father died. He was an angry, abusive guy. He did express regret to me through my husband a couple of years ago, and I wrote a letter but my mother never expressed what he or they thought (even then his illness made her his main communicator). There was a lot of pain there from many years. I’ve been exhausted this week.
There are a couple of new positions I need to help my husband with as far as resumes and letters go, but it’s been hard to get going on them. He is worn down also with this.
All this has happened before I ever had a chance to really recover from my dreadful church experience. February was about the best month for me. I was hopeful I was learning to trust God and that He cared. The long slog since early March things has been hard. It’s been so tough for me to trust that God has not forgotten me. I know my relationship with my father compounded with the church situation has deeply affected me.
I have one friend who meets to pray with me, usually once a week. Another friend stops by as she can-usually once a week for her as well. (She drives around town with her work and this brings her close to our home). These two women have been lifelines for me. One of them goes to the church we have been attending. I am grateful they’re in my life.
The pastor has been faithful to pray for us and sincerely wants to know how we are doing when we see him. However, we have not felt welcomed to become a part of people’s lives (except for my one friend and her husband). Sometimes I wonder if people realize that we are brothers and sisters in Christ and that when your extended family does not believe, then you really need the body of Christ. It’s one reason why a site like Refuge fill a need that the local church neglects.
Sidney’s and doulos’ words on the Laodicean church were very helpful to me the other day. They really made sense of some things we’ve seen.
I also appreciate your prayers and those of Gracie’s. I am sure that the answer to those prayers is the reason that today was better for me.
My sympathy for the loss you suffered. Even though your relationship with your father was a struggle, you must feel pain over his death. I am so sorry.
I know the experience of fearing for the future. We are all living through extraodinary times. Even the Jimmy Carter years weren’t this bad (except for the gas lines – those were horrible). The comfort here is that the whole nation is suffering, and it isn’t a failure on your part or your husband’s. It isn’t God punishing you for leaving SGM, or for struggling in your faith. Maybe I didn’t need to tell you that, but I wanted to make sure you understood.
I”m writing your name on an index card to put on my kitchen window. I will be praying for your husband to find work, until he does. It is good that you have two friends who can be a life line for you. That is the Lord’s caring for you.
I have always been struck by the fact that the Proverbs 31 woman could “smile at the future”. How did she do that, when the future is always so uncertain? She must have learned to live in the day, to stay in that one day, and to trust God for just 24 hours at a time.
I read an article once on what the writer called “future tripping”. God was already speaking to me about how I take on the future, instead of staying in the day. If I can find the link, and Jim approves, I’ll post it on the “moving on” thread.
Worry comes when we think about the past, or wonder about the future. In our worries, the Lord seems to disappear from the picture. That is when we know that our thoughts are not His thoughts. Stay in the day. You have grace for this one day. Tomorrow, you will have grace for that day. Yesterday is gone. You have grace for today.
Look for the Lord to speak in this day. He does this in many ways – through a verse, through a song or a friend, in nature…He speaks all the time, but we don’t always know to listen and look for Him.
You are in a very challenging place in your life. These few ideas are only a life preserver to get your head above water. God’s heart is so for you. He is so good and kind. We ex-SGMers didn’t always know that, and didn’t hear a lot about this in church teachings. Focusing on sin does not nourish the soul. Only Jesus can. Drink of His living water, in the day that you are in. I really want to hug you! I am so, so happy that you have two good friends who support you.
Thank you so much for being vulnerable enough to share on the Refuge. There are some reading who are too afraid to post because they hurt so much. Your own experience might help them, as you walk through it. Blessings, Inc. Many, many blessings to you and yours.
Also, if you want to take this private, Jim can send you my email address. I will be praying, I promise!
INC, I will be praying as well. He has not left you….I often think back on days past and realize that despite the trials, confusion, pain, etc…and only then did I realize that at no point did I ever truly think God had left me. My vision had changed, or I was in bondage, or I was acting in unbelief, or whatever….but never had He left me. It took years for me to be able to look back only in the sense of seeing God’s presence. When He feels far away today, and I wonder if He will show up tomorrow..I do think of yesterday. When He was there. And I have faith again for today, as Canary said.
Thank you for your loving words. Thank you for taking the thought and time to write. Your replies represent the ministry of Refuge, not only to me, but to others.
Canary, you said: Maybe I didn’t need to tell you that, but I wanted to make sure you understood. I do need to hear those words again, because even though I know them in my head, Satan whispers the opposite when I am at low ebb.
The pastor at the church we’ve attended in the context of talking about my fears also mentioned to me the Proverbs 31 woman who “smiles at the future”. That is so amazing to me. I’d also be interested in the article about “future tripping.”
Thank you both for your continuing prayers.
With love and gratitude to both of you, my sisters in Christ, INC.
INC–Proverbs 31 is so marvelous, my daughter and I were just talking about it today in the context of the ‘woman has to be under the covering of a man’ nonsense.
We are covered under the precious and invaluable Blood of Christ. We laugh at the future, like our Proverbs 31 sis.
In regards to the Prob.31 woman, there is so much we can glean from this passage in reference to our relationship with our Lord! SHE had her own business! SHE owned property! SHE bought and sold, (along with the men I am sure) AND with her own money! SHE commanded her household and ran it. SHE was recognized for her wisdom, etc. AND the most important declaration of the passage, at least for me; SHE FEARED G-D, not her husband.
What a wonderful heritage you/we, as women have. This is how HE sees us. We have value, worth, and much to offer HIM. HE trusts us to do well and bring glory to HIM..! HE gives us wisdom for all, not just other women. HE gives us knowledge and intelligence to support our household (it is okay to work outside of the home!). HE equips us with discernment to use/give this wisdom. HE causes us to be given respect. HE has a purpose for us on this earth and uses US to bring glory to HIM and joy to others.
Hang in there Inc. YOU are this woman! Now is the time to rest and let others stand in the gap and pray for you. Be patient, let HIM love you and bring you to that place that you can declare and believe all this for yourself…HE delights over you.. Will be praying.
Thank you for taking the time to write words of encouragement to me. I am so appreciative and need to be reminded again of the Lord’s love for me. Thank you also for your prayers.
Hi Everyone:
This is Esther of Chesapeake. I have a prayer request. My job
has now been reduced to 20 hours a week at the school where I work. I was struggling financially to make it even when my job was full-time . This
is truly a test of faith for me. Many of my dear friends have been helping along
the way financially this past 7 months since my husband left my children
and me. I have sent out between 40 and 50 resumes in the past few
weeks to find a new position. I felt that I must “cast my bread upon
the water so that after many days it would come back to me.” I haven’t
heard anything back from any of them so far. It is truly difficult to not
become discouraged. I spoke with a temp to hire agency today, and
she enlightened me on the fact that I am a 51 year old woman who is
returning to the work force after 20 years at home - home schooling my
children, and I am competing against a market of many who do the same
thing I can do and who are younger and have no break in their work
history. This was truly discouraging to hear. But, in my heart I know that
God is greater than statistics, but I still find myself struggling with doubts.
Will God really bless me “Esther” with an amazing job that will provide
for my children and me? It is hard to believe that sometimes. Today,
I found myself weeping before God and sharing my heart, my sadness,
and my doubts. I know He hears my cries for help. I believe the words
that the temp agency spoke to me are a reality, but God doesn’t want
me to believe that my life is controlled by these things. I believe God wants to be glorified in us and through us, so I am sharing this burden with each of you,
“The Body of Christ” asking for your prayers and for your faith to go up with
mine. Somehow that is so important here. He doesn’t want us to walk
alone. We are the ”Body” and we need each other. I also found myself
discouraged today because I made a bookkeeping error in my checking account. It sent it snowballing into a mess. I certainly didn’t need a mess. I went into the bank this afternoon to ask for their help and mercy. I have been banking with them for years. They know me by my first name. The bank employee made a remark that went in my heart like a knife. It was a belittling remark, and I left in tears. I called her when I got home and told her how badly she made me feel. She apologized. She
said she wasn’t thinking about my situation. She was so sorry. I told her she has been a long time friend and that is why I came to her. We were reconciled. We don’t know what the bank manager will decide as far as charges, but I do know that I obeyed the Lord by going in and ”asking” and I also obeyed by calling back and humbly sharing my heart with the worker. We have been restored. I guess I am sharing this to let you know that there are still spiritual battles going on in my life. I ask for your prayers. I am trusting the Lord that He will continue to lead me into green pastures where I will be able to find rest. So I totally understand the pain of my dear sister, “Inc.” We will stand together in faith, and watch God act on our behalf and for Him to be glorified in powerful ways in the days ahead. And by the
way, “It is Okay for us to cry and express our doubts to God.” He understands our
frame, and it won’t stop Him from acting on our behalf. Praise the Lord!!!!
You have been on my heart—I will be praying and warring and praying…and will call you. In the meantime with all of my strength I pray that all your needs will be continuously met, over and abundantly…that Gods covenant of care,provision and restoration will manifest upon your household….that the King of Glory, Jesus, the Lord Strong and Mighty will come in—and open the door of employment for you…Praying Gods Peace for you and your children…….much love
I agree with what Waters so eloquently said. The Lord does not forget you or your children. Never, never, never! I’m sending up pleas to heaven that provision will be hurried to you.
I will be praying for you as well. May the Lord in His power and might deliver you. May we all see and rejoice in His provisions and salvation together! With love from your sister in Christ, INC
Esther, There is also a check in the mail from a Canary who doesn’t have much, but wishes to share what she has. Jim, can I send it through you, or will you email me Esther’s address? Thanks.
Esther (Sylvia),
I (we, Defended and myself) have an understanding for how you are feeling right now.
Our whole story on our current situation is long, but the short story is that we became rather presumptive in our rock solid understanding of God’s provision for us. Through a series of events beyond our control (read that God’s hand) I lost my job, crashed two vehicles (nope, three vehicles) ran up our debt in expectation of a return of what the locusts have eaten (we now know how that thinking can go.) Got a low paying job, filed bankruptcy, lost that job, lost our home to foreclosure, and have been looking for work for 16 months now.
Through it all, God has provided in such miraculous ways that we now are renting the dream home of our life! I am now working for my wife, (my Proverbs 31 woman by the way) in her little hobby business that used to get her extra grocery money that we discovered is capable of making more money than I ever made as a professional. It’s all God’s hand!
I can tell you of days like when a friend called and asked if we needed some eggs, (they have chickens,) and then came by with a month’s supply of groceries, and an envelope with one thousand dollars cash, saying “God told me to do this, hope it helps.” These, and more amazing things happened when we were crying out in our deepest despair, (only a few months ago.)
Yes, our Father does hear us, and you can expect Him to provide.
I don’t know why I am not employed (outside our home) while I have seen others loose their jobs and be reemployed after a few months, except that God has a “re-education plan” for me right now, and I would not exchange what He has done over the last few years for any amount of wealth in the world.
My dear sister, our Daddy, who clothes the lilies of the field, and takes note of each sparrow’s flight, will certainly see to your provision, to His glory.
I’m not saying, “cheer up” and trust God, I’m saying it’s okay to “cry out” to Him who hears us, and Loves us. I found it to be a great comfort in my deepest times of need.
I can cry out in despair, and KNOW that He does not get irritated with my petty requests. They are not petty to Him.
I just want you to know that in Him, there is hope, and the future is very good.
We will be praying for you too.
Your words made me teary. You DO understand what Esther is feeling. That will help her so much.
I love to hear how proud you are of your “Proverbs 31″ woman. God works in ways that are constantly surprising. Just think of all the time you and your wife get to spend with each other.
“Just think of all the time you and your wife get to spend with each other.”
Yes Canary,
That has not escaped me. Nor how much time I get with my kids right now as the first one will be leaving for college in 2010.
These are the good old days.
Ya know, after I review even the short version of His provision to us, I could just break into Worship right now!
Thank you Father! For your Lovingkindness and Mercy to us is greater than the Universe!
We bask in your provision, as we Worship You and enjoy YOU!
Jim:
I am so humbled by this. I wrote on the blog yesterday because my burden was so heavy, and I knew I needed to humble myself and share with my brothers and sisters. I never dreamed though that you all would be led this way. This is truly unexpected or even dreamed of. God moves in surprising and totally unexpected ways. Thank you for your kindness to my children and I.
I want you to know that I do not have any problem with you sharing my story in any ways you desire. I see everything I have been through as God’s will for me. Even the suffering is an opportunity for Him to be glorified. But, I don’t seek to suffer. I comfort myself with the fact that the Word says in Hebrews 5:7-8, “In the days of
his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, ;with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.” This was Jesus, our perfect Savior, so I should expect no less for myself.
I am attaching my resume. Fred let me know what was happening. I was so surprised. I am totally willing to get my resume out there because as Ecclesiates 11:1 says, “Cast your bread upon the waters, for you will find it after many days.” and also Ecclesiates 11:6, “In the morning sow your seed, and at evening withhold not your hand, for you do not know which will prosper, this or that, or whether both alike will be good.” So I believe God is telling me that somehow with all that He is having me do, the provision is coming in the days ahead. I am having to learn to rest in that.
Thank you dear brother Jim and all of you brother and sisters for your kindness. I feel loved and cared for by the “Body of Christ” even with any difference any of us may have. Thank you for your desire to minister to the Body through this site.
As I continue to walk in faith, I will also couple my faith with works which involves working diligently as unto the Lord, and sending out resumes and responding to any ways the Lord inspires me. Who knows which will prosper?
This is like the Hallellujah chorus—-in one accord, Gods people….SEE needs, HEAR needs, and respond with the heart of Jesus!!…….”Esther”/Sylvia, because of the genuine life of Christ in you—you are exemplifying true humility and the strength of fully believing and walking in faith. I hope SGM Gaithersberg is reading this so that they may witness what it is to be ENGAGED with the Brethren. We are watching,Sylvia, with great anticipation to see how the Father will glorify Himself more and more in your situation.
As Defender said above, this all makes ya just break out into worship…Remember the first stanza of the old hymn: …..
“Morning by morning, I wake up to find,
The power and comfort of Gods Hand in mine;
Season by season, I watch Him amazed,
In awe of the mysteries of His perfect ways…
All have need of—-His Hand will provide–
He’s always been faithful, to me….”
This is a Word the Lord gave me in June of 2007 for the Church. I share it now because I believe it is so fitting as I look on what God is doing in the Body of Christ. I never shared this with the Church publically, but I shared it with the pastors at Sovereign Grace Church of Chesapeake.
A Word for the Church June 2007 I believe the Lord has a Word for the Church. In the book of Numbers, Chapter 32, the tribes of Reuben and Gad came to Moses and requested that they be allowed to remain in the land and not cross the Jordan with their brothers into the Promised Land, but instead be given this land for their possession. Numbers 32:6-7; “But Moses said to the people of Gad and to the people of Reuben, “Shall your brothers go to the war while you sit here? Why will you discourage the heart of the people of Israel from going over into the land that the Lord has given them?” Numbers 32:16-18, The Reubenites and Gadites came near to Moses and said, “We will build sheepfolds here for our livestock, and cities for our little ones, but we will take up arms, ready to go before the people of Israel, until we have brought them to their place. And our little ones shall live in the fortified cities because of the habitants of the land. We will not return to our homes until each of the people of Israel has gained his inheritance.”
Joshua 2:12-15, “Then Joshua called together the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and the half-tribe of Manasseh. He told them, Remember what Moses, the servant of the Lord, commanded you: The Lord your God is giving you a place of rest. He has given you this land. Your wives, children, and livestock may remain here in the land Moses assigned to you on the east side of the Jordan River. But your strong warriors, fully armed, must lead the other tribes across the Jordan to help them conquer their territory. Stay with them until the Lord gives them rest, as he has given you rest, and until they, too, possess the land the Lord your God is giving them. Only then may you return and settle here on the east side of the Jordan River in the land that Moses, the servant of the Lord, assigned to you.”
Jesus Christ left His place in glory, came down to earth, and laid down His life to do the will of His Father so that we might be delivered from our enemy – death, hell and the grave, and be brought to our eternal inheritance. For 33 years Jesus laid down His life to do the will of His Father.
In John 15:12-13, “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.” We are called to lay down our lives for our brothers. Just as the men of valor from the Reubenites, Gadites, and half-tribe of Manasseh were called to leave their place of rest, their
promised inheritance, armed for war, and pass over before their brothers to help them until each of them possessed their promised inheritance, I believe the Lord is calling us to arm ourselves and stand firm with our brothers and sisters until they enter their place of rest.
Ephesians 6:13-18, “Take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To the end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints.”
God is pouring out His Holy Spirit filling us with power and preparing us to pass over before our brothers in Christ, ready to lay down our lives, “fighting the good fight of faith,” extinguishing every flaming dart of Satan, until each of us and our brothers has driven out our enemy the devil, and each of us safely takes possession of our promised inheritance in Christ. Ephesians 1:11-14, “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been
predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.” Ezekiel 36:22, “Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name.” Christ’s honor is at stake in our bodily lives.
Note: I believe we are seeing these Words fulfilled!!!! It is so exciting!!!
Thank you! I believe the word you have shared will help my family in making a serious decision. It cannot be all about ourselves. We, in faith, can help our brethren saints reach their “promised land”, too. Thanks for having the courage to share what has been on your heart.
Thankyou, Sylvia—This Word merits much study and prayer on my part…What a picture of we, the Body—called to fight FOR our brothers and sisters…laying down our lives (this points my heart and posture to seek to be emptied of self and any animosity towards the Brethren/SGM leadership that have deeply wounded my family)….and we are ever in battle—a spiritual battle, and thus the spiritual armor. The battles are for Truth (and the “Good News” is the fulfillment of Christs accomplished redemptive salvation)….Truth, Gods Truth, shatters darkness and deception and counterfeits…….as we are ‘battling’ for Truth at the harbor of refuge Jim and Carole have been assigned to provide… I believe we rally under the banner the Lord has raised up:—”Thou hast given a banner to those who fear Thee; that it may be displayed because of the Truth.” Psalm 60:4— For the sake of His HOLY Name (Ezekiel 36:22 referenced above.)
INC, so much encouragement has been directed your way by these dear folks that I feel all I can add is my prayers. Grace to you!
Sylvia, thank you for sharing that word and those Scriptures. Receiving a word like that helps us blow past all the accusations of gossip and slander that we so often hear and set our minds and hearts on the task ahead. It helps us keep our eyes on Him. Praying for you as well.
Today we had a special time of worship. The pastor had us sing,
“Great is thy faithfulness, Great is thy faithfulness.
Morning by Morning new mercies I see
All I have needed thy hand has provided
Great is thy Faithfulness, Oh Lord to Me.”
My heart swelled with gratitude to my Abba Daddy Father, wonderful loving Savior (my Spiritual Husband), and to Holy Spirit my blessed comforter and Helper. I also thank each of you my brothers and sisters who are blessing my children and I with your giving. A week ago, I was crying out to God feeling a sense of weariness in my
walk of faith, but now I sit here at my computer wanting so much to express my heart of thankfulness knowing that I lack the words to adequately express what I feel right now. I feel loved, cherished, and totally poured down on by my loving God. And each of you are an expression of His love to me. Thank you, Thank you!!!!
I am looking to the future knowing that somehow God has a plan that is unfolding.
I can’t wait to share with each of you my continued “Story of Hope.” Every chapter ever lived thus far has been saturated with God’s presence and love. My husband
once gave me a poem for ”Mother’s Day.” It was called, “The Quilt.” I cried when I read it. It truly expressed my concern that somehow my life had fallen so short of ever bringing glory to my Savior. I wanted so much to do something great for Him
because I love him so much. After I read this, it gave me a brand new understanding of what God values as glorifying. It gave me hope, and I trust it will you!!!
The Quilt
As I faced my Maker at the last Judgment, I knelt before the Lord along with the other souls. Before each of us laid our lives, like the squares of a quilt, in many piles. An angel sat before each of us sewing quilt squares together into tapestries that represented our lives. As my angel took each piece of cloth off the pile, I noticed how ragged and empty each of my squares was. They were filled with giant holes.
Each square was labeled with a part of my life that had been difficult, the challenges and temptations I was faced with in everyday life. I saw hardships that I had endured, which were the largest holes of all. I glanced around me. No one else had such squares. Other than a tiny hole here and there, the other tapestries were filled with rich color and bright hues of worldly fortune. I gazed upon my own life and was disheartened. My angel was sewing the ragged pieces of cloth together, threadbare and empty. Finally, the time came when each life was to be displayed, held up to the light. . . the scrutiny of truth. The others arose, each in turn, holding up their tapestries. So filled their lives had been! My angel looked upon me, and nodded for me to arise. My gaze dropped to the ground in shame. I hadn’t had all the earthly fortunes. I had had love in my life, and laughter. But there had also been trials of illness and death, and false accusations that took from me my world as I knew it. I had to start over many times. I often struggled with the temptation to quit, only to somehow muster the strength to pick up and begin again. I had spent many nights on my knees in prayer, asking for help and guidance in my life. I had often been held up to ridicule, which I endured painfully; each time offering it up to the Father in hopes that I would not melt within my skin beneath the critical gaze of those who unfairly judged me. And now, I had to face the truth. My life was what it was, and I had to accept it for what it had been. I arose and slowly lifted the combined squares of my life to the light. An awe-filled gasp filled the air. I gazed around at the others who stared at me with eyes wide. Then, I looked upon the tapestry before me. Light flooded the many holes, creating an image. The face of Christ. Our Lord then stood before me, with warmth and love in His eyes. He said, “Every time you gave over your life to Me, it became My life, My hardships, and My struggles. Each point of light in your life is when you stepped aside and let Me shine through, until there was more of Me than there was of you.” May all our quilts be threadbare and worn, allowing Christ to shine through.
Hi Ellie! Great to see you too and thanks for the hugs! Love those Ellie hugs. Hope everything is good in your part of the world. Hey, by the way, we disconnected our home phone to save money. I have often hoped you didn’t try calling it only to find it was no longer there. That would not be cool.
Esther,
Thank you for sharing The Quilt. It is always good to be reminded and encouraged that the way God measures success is not the same as the world’s. I hope that the “quilt” of my life will reflect the glory of God in some way.
Hi Everyone:
Just wanted to check in as some of you requested! Thank you to so
many of you who have been sending help to my children and I. I am
so grateful. My current boss and his wife spoke to me today and they are planning to increase my hours from the current 20 hours a week until I can find another job. They are trying to help as well. I have many resumes out there right now, and I am believing the Lord will open a door in His perfect timing. Thank you for your prayers. I am very, very grateful.
We are continuing to pray for God’s provision for you & your family and rejoicing at this new development!. He always takes care of His children, and sends them the help they need — at exactly the moment they need it.
I would appreciate prayer & possibly recommendations of any churches in the East Valley of Phoenix, Arizona. We are in the 85282 Zip code.
I am familiar with SGC in Gilbert & have tried to push myself to commit for a while. But just don’t have the confidence that we could ever fully belong, even several separate member friends have agreed I probably wouldn’t due to a significant lack of other single moms.
I’m a divorced mom & take seriously the teaching & authority that I would place my children under and have been searching, praying, asking advice for years without finding. I’ve briefly read a few of these forums for several months. Love the SGC worship, community spirit, and most of the doctrines espoused, at times hoping I could overlook the problems out of desperation to try to belong somewhere, anywhere. I was reading parts of “Shepherding a Child’s Heart” this weekend craving another mom friend to discuss it with and of course crying out to the Lord for His answer.
I came back tonight researching SCG Gilbert – there’s so much wisdom & discernment that I have read here. I am especially desperate to ask, if you left & found somewhere the Lord might lead us to try, I would so appreciate the counsel.
I would rather not publicly post an email address, but will, if that would be preferable.
I’ve never lived in Arizona, but I will pray you find friends and a church. I did want to let you know that up in the right sidebar under Links, Jim has a link to Phoenix Preacher’s blog. Maybe he knows of a church in your area.
Hi Everyone:
I want to give an update on my situaton as I promised many of you. Recently Jim opened the P. O. Box for others to send financial support to my children and me. I have to say it has been so wonderful to receive cards and letters from many of you with encouraging words. I have received from 10 people to date. I have been able to keep all of my bills paid for the month and even started the beginnings of a savings account. I am so blessed by all of your kindness towards me. It makes me cry!!!! I also want to ask for your prayers. Recently I have been walking through more healing in my heart. I think it may have shown in one of my latest postings on another area of the blog. I hope you will bear with me if I ever come across unkind. I have grieved this week to think that I may have caused any harm to anyone on this blog or anywhere else because of something I might say in a harsh way. I know what it is like to be hurt so I do not want to hurt anyone else. Please forgive me if I have contributed in any way to anyone’s hurt through any words that I have ever spoken. My desire is for truth but that truth must be girded up by “love.” I so appreciate everyone for your love for me. I sense it each time anyone writes to me. The Lord spoke to my heart recently that He was healing me, but that it would be “little by little.” He is gracious, tender, and patient with us. I am thankful for that!!! Today my boss and I talked about my job. He has graciously decided to keep me full-time for the summer. He also told me not to ever worry about my job with them. We will watch together and see what God unfolds in the days ahead. I have continued to send out resumes. I haven’t had any opportunities for interviews, but I sense the Lord does not want me to be concerned about that. It is truly out of my control, and the fact is, I do not know what God’s plans are for me. He obviously wants me to stay put at this time. That isn’t a problem because I love where I am working and the people that I have the opportunity to work with. They are a blessing to me. Again, thank you to each of you who have sent financial support to my children and I. I know the Lord is blessed to see His “Body” walking together in ”love.” I pray that the Lord will bless each of you and your families, and may He pour down a blessing that you cannot contain in the days ahead.
Oh, Sylvia, I am so happy and blessed to hear this. It is so truly wonderful to have your report of the Body walking together in love. Just so truly wonderful. The blessing of His love seen in His people is such a reassurance to my heart of the reality of Jesus Christ and of the love of the Father for each of us, His dear children. (John 17:20-23).
Sylvia, I wanted to write a bit more about why your post was such a blessing to me.
One of the hardest things for me (and I know for many of you!) was going through such a lack of love in my prior church situation–that’s the whole heart of the matter, isn’t it? I was left with such doubts about the transforming power of Jesus and God’s love for me. Hearing of the real love of other believers so encourages my trust and faith.
Yesterday afternoon we found two jobs for which my husband is very qualified. We sent off letters and resumes today. This is so hopeful to us. We were praying so yesterday morning for something to break that day.
We would appreciate your prayers for him and that he would find favor here if it is the Lord’s will and that the Lord will sustain us in hope.
I thank our God so much for your love and prayers. I thank Him for His tender mercies.
Yesterday I had a blessed time of sharing and prayer with a friend. Last night I was looking at the openings of the NT letters and it was a blessing to see the grace, mercy and peace given to us from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. This was topped with reading of the response to Esther (Sylvia).
Later I looked again at Jude’s opening of his letter which was especially meaningful to me: “Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ: May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.” (NASU) It was so good to read that I am beloved in God the Father. Thank you for your prayers.
That’s wonderful about the job possibilities! Still praying…
It is amazing how the beginnings of these letters you mention are so uplifting in themselves.
“Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ: May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.” (NASU)
Simply beautiful. When we got a letter from our pastor encouraging us to go to that year’s celebration, it opened like this:
Dear Friend,
I trust this note finds you successfully identifying, confessing and turning from sin to the praise of His glorious grace!
Notice any difference? This is a direct quote from the letter, as my husband still has it on file. Jude makes us realize how precious we are to Jesus. My ex-pastor’s words just reminded me to keep my eyes focused on me and my sin.
My husband just got an email saying one position was put on hold yesterday and his credentials for the other were not what the company is looking for. This is confusing because he is super-qualified according to both job descriptions. He has left a voice mail to ask what they did want that he doesn’t have. He is going to try to speak to a person about it! Please pray this is cleared up and that he will be considered!
Dear INC,
Thank you for your kind words and suggestion. I went to the website & posted a prayer request there. I will contact him personally later on.
As limited as I can get online, I appreciate reading the answers to prayer here & the encouragement going on. It helps me not give up . The Lord led me to Psalm 25 last night & graciously reminded me that putting my hope in Him is a choice & an action. Maybe He wants to heal the hurts & fill up the loneliness first, then maybe He will show me fellowship.
We have spent a very strange afternoon with emails and phone calls with a couple of professional placement services. One we did not like and the other, well, we are not yet sure what is going on. The second seem as if they know what they’re doing, but my husband has had to really push in regard to some things. He won out in one item while there is some reluctance about the second. Obviously, with the weekend here it’s all on hold now until next week. The Lord has helped me not to be downhearted, but we continue to desire your prayers!
Hi Everyone:
Here is a quick update! I shared recently that I have been able to put a side some of the money I have received from many of you and start a small savings account. I also received a call from a friend yesterday who wanted to help me out as well. Later yesterday evening I decided to go by an auto repair shop owned by a Christian family whose child attends the school where I work. I needed them to check my door panel which was coming off. While they were at it, I asked if they would check my radiator. It has been sputtering sometimes and also I smelled coolant. They informed me that I had a real problem. The hose running to the radiator had completely broken off. I had lost all of the coolant and a lot of water. That was sad news because the radiator was just a year old on May 27th (now passed the warrenty period). At first I felt so disappointed, but the more I thought about it, I realized that I had so much to rejoice about. The Lord knew this was coming and I have enough money saved to cover the repair. Isn’t God so faithful. I appreciate each of you who have been walking through this season with me - what a testimony of “The Body of Christ!!!” And what a testimony of God’s faithfulness!!! Tonight I go to bed very peaceful because I see my “Abba Father” has everything under control (even the unexpected things).
Hi Everyone:
I was looking at the beginning of this thread and it asks the question, “What are you grateful for?” I have to start with that in mind. I am grateful today that the Lord continues to provide for all my needs faithfully!!! To Him be the glory for ever and ever!!!! I am grateful for His kindness and mercies to me every day. Every morning His mercies are new!!!
I am writing today to share a prayer request, but also to share a testimony within the prayer request. Recently my car broke down because it needed a new radiator. I was able to replace it with the help of many of you who have continued to provide generously to me through the UPS Store P. O. Box. This past Saturday my daughter and I were going to work on two cleanings jobs for my landlord. We had just finished the first one and I decided to go back past where we live because I had googled the directions from my house for both jobs. We had just left the interstate and were on the main road past our house. Suddenly there was an unusual sound in the front of the car and I lost complete control moving forward. I only had gas power, but no driving power. Soon I found myself coasting from 50 mph down to nothing. I was partly off the main road and partly in a turn lane. Very soon a young man in his truck came directly in front of me and stopped. He jumped out and asked what the problem was. I explained. Soon another man stopped beside me and also got out. Between the two of them they pushed us off the main road safely. I was so very grateful that I wasn’t still on the interstate when this happened. I am also grateful that I was within 10 minutes walking distance from my house. I told my daughter as we were walking, “Isn’t Jesus the most wonderful husband in the world. He knew what was coming and he provided everything we needed.” I am so grateful today to be able to glorify my wonderful Savior and faithful Father. I am grateful that I wasn’t on the interstate, that I was near home, and that there were others to help push us to safety. I love you Jesus!!! Also, my sister-in-law was calling as I walked through the door from walking home. She hasn’t called in several months. She told me that she felt such a heavy burden to check on me. When I told her the story, she told me imediately that she would speak to her husband to see if they can help out financially. I was blown away. I hadn’t hardly thought through anything, and God is already on the move on my behalf. I must say that the more I walk through my circumstances the more I see a vivid understanding of the power of Christ manifested through the “Body of Christ.” As I worship Him for His faithfulness, I also thank Him for the ”Body of Christ” that each of you are to me. God bless each of you.
My prayer request is: The car needs a new transmission (rebuilt). The cost is $1,665.00 confirmed today by a wonderful Godly mechanic who God has brought into our lives. We have talked it over and believe that the car is worth fixing because it has a rebuilt engine, new radiator, new water pump, new brakes, and the previous owners kept up on so many things with it. We believe that there are not too many big repair jobs left on it for a while. It makes sense to stick with what you know instead of starting over with another used vehicle that might need major repairs in the near future.
One more thing, over the past couple of weeks I was feeling rather down about my circumstances as far as my inability to be independent. I have tried so hard to find a new job with better income and benefits, but there has been nothing so far. As I went to my “Abba Father” I believe He comforted me that this is His will for me at this season. I also believe that God is using circumstances in many lives to bring the “Body of Christ” together to bear one another’s burdens. It is truly humbling for me to be so open with my life, but if this brings glory to my Savior and Lord, than by all means Lord have your way. I will keep pressing on doing what I know to do, but ultimately I am trusting and resting in Him.
Thanks for your prayers Brothers and Sister,
Love, (Sylvia) Esther
What a wonderful story! So many of us are learning to depend on the Lord to sustain us day by day with our finances. Amazing things happen when we trust our Father. Keep sharing, because your faith is so encouraging! Canary
Esther,
Thank you again for sharing. Your attitude and accounts of the goodness of God inspire me to look at my own struggles in a different light. Yes, God is getting the glory through your testimony.
Canary and Ellie,
So nice to see you here, my dear friends.
Dear Brothers and Sisters:
I have a praise report!!! The other day I shared with you all that my car’s transmission went out. The cost of the repair is $1,665.00. I asked you to pray for me. Here is God’s answer. Some friends are sending me a check for $1,000 towards the repair. My sister-in-law is sending $300. And my dear father who is in his late 70′s wants to help out as much as he can too. God is providing and I am so very grateful to Him. I must share this testimony of His faithfulness to my children and me. Do I hear a shout out there!!!!!!!! PRAISE THE LORD, PRAISE THE LORD, LET THE EARTH HEAR YOUR VOICE! PRAISE THE LORD, PRAISE THE LORD, LET THE PEOPLE REJOICE! OH COME TO THE FATHER THROUGH JESUS THE SON! AND GIVE HIM THE GLORY GREAT THINGS HE HAS DONE!!!!!!
Back at the home front there are also many things to be thankful for. My 14 year old son who began having seizures in 2004 and was diagnosed with epilepsy has been released by the neurologist as being seizure free! He is weaning off his medication as I speak. By Monday of next week he will be completely weaned off of all medication. This is an amazing answer to prayer for him and for our family. We thank the Lord for healing in his body.
Also, this same son was struggling greatly with anger and hurt towards his father. He wasn’t willing to even see him or speak to him. Over the past 8 months I have continued to talk to him and pray for him that he would begin to understand forgiveness. I know that only after understanding our own need of love and forgiveness extended to us by God can we begin to truly forgive others. On Father’s Day I scheduled a time for my kids and their dad and I to meet for lunch at a local restaurant to celebrate. My youngest son was not wanting to go at first, but as the day approached he agreed to go. We ended up having to give my husband a ride back to where he lives. While on the drive my son sat in the back seat while his dad was in the front passenger seat. Spontaneously my son said, “Dad, I love you!” and his dad answered back, “I love you too son.” That was all, but it was the most profound moment!!!! IT WAS HUGE!!!!
My son was taking a step towards forgiveness and how freeing it is. I have released my son that forgiving his dad does not mean he has to trust him yet. Trust must be earned. So while forgiveness is possible, I know reconciliation will have to come through true repentence and trust being restored. And that we hope will come one day!!!!
My 22 year old daughter met with her dad for lunch today!! She told me that the Lord has been impressing on her that she needs to pursue her relationship with her dad. Their time together brought some tears, but also gave her time to speak truth to her dad. I am so proud of her for taking these steps of faith and for being courageous.
My family is experiencing healing!!! Please continue to pray for us. I desire to have wisdom as I continue to walk through my circumstances. My greatest desire has always been and will always be “to please and glorify the Lord!” Thank you for walking with me.
I am glad to hear of God’s provision for your family and for the beginning of healing with your children and their father. I also thank God for the physical healing of your son.
To all,
Please pray for work for my husband. We need to see God powerfully act on our behalf. Things are getting down to the wire for us.
Sylvia…thank you so much for opening your heart to share the chronicle of what God is doing in your family. It really is a wonderful thing to see how he is caring for you. It gives such hope and encouragement to us all.
Inc. Praying for you and your family.
Lord we ask, would you please provide in a miraculous way?
….to Him Who, by the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]– 21To Him be glory in the church… Gal 3:20 + AMP
Hi Brother and Sisters:
Just want to update you on my car. It is now completely repaired. It has a rebuilt transmission, new radiator, new front tire, new rear brakes, and passed inspection today. I am so happy. I picked it up this afternoon just in time for the work week coming up. Most of the money has come in for all of these repairs. It is truly amazing to watch God provide. Thank you for your prayers. I will keep you updated!!!
To My Dear Brothers and Sisters “The Body of Christ”:
This is my prayer for each of you today! And may each of you enjoy the presence of our wonderful God!!!!!
PSALM 20:1-8 (AMPLIFIED BIBLE)
20:1 “MAY THE Lord answer you in the day of trouble! May the name of the God of Jacob set you up on high [and defend you]; Ps 20:2 Send you help from the sanctuary and support, refresh, and strengthen you from Zion; Ps 20:3 Remember all your offerings and accept your burnt sacrifice. lah [pause, and think of that]! Ps 20:4 May He grant you according to your heart’s desire and fulfill all your plans. Ps 20:5 We will [shout in] triumph at your salvation and victory, and in the name of our God we will set up our banners. May the Lord fulfill all your petitions. Ps 20:6 Now I know that the Lord saves His anointed; He will answer him from His holy heaven with the saving strength of His right hand. Ps 20:7 Some trust in and boast of chariots and some of horses, but we will trust in and boast of the name of the Lord our God. Ps 20:8 They are bowed down and fallen, but we are risen and stand upright.”
Enjoying the presence of Jesus Christ my Savior, Abba Father, and the Holy Spirit my comforter is the greatest joy of my life.
Ps 21:6 For You make him to be blessed and a blessing forever; You make him exceedingly glad with the joy of Your presence. [Gen. 12:2.]
Dear Defender:
Unfortunately I have dial-up and I can’t listen to Youtube or any video type downloads. I also have a very strong filter on my computer, too and it won’t let us go to Youtube either. Is there anyway to at least post the words? I enjoy the words of songs these days as well as the tunes. Thanks for thinking of me today and for desiring to share encouragement in many ways even through song.
Alright Sylvia, this is making me nutz.
I have been all over the net and find just about every song Tommy Walker has recorded with the exception of this one; “We Will Remember”.
I have misplaced our CD of this recording (I convert all our CD’s to mp3 and archive the CD’s, usually.)
So with a little more time, I will have to play the song and “take dictation” and get back with you. (I’m slow.)
But this is worth it.
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
And we will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
You’re our Creator, our Life Sustainer,
Deliverer, our Comfort, our Joy.
Throughout the ages, You’ve been our shelter,
our peace in the midst of the storm.
With signs and wonders, you’ve shown your power,
With precious blood, you’ve showed us your grace,
You’ve been our helper, our liberator,
the giver of life with no end.
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
When we walk through life darkest valley,
We will look back at all you have done,
AND WE WILL SHOUT!
“OUR GOD IS GOOD, AND HE IS THE FAITHFUL ONE!”
HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH!
To the One from whom all blessings flow!
HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH!
To the One whose glory has been shown!
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
I still Remember, the day you saved me,
the day I heard you call out my name,
You said you loved me, would never leave me,
AND I’VE NEVER BEEN THE SAME!
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
The following words especially express my heart cry to God:
You’re our Creator, our Life Sustainer,
Deliverer, our Comfort, our Joy.
Throughout the ages, You’ve been our shelter,
our peace in the midst of the storm.
With signs and wonders, you’ve shown your power,
With precious blood, you’ve showed us your grace,
You’ve been our helper, our liberator,
the giver of life with no end.
When we walk through life darkest valley,
We will look back at all you have done,
AND WE WILL SHOUT!
“OUR GOD IS GOOD, AND HE IS THE FAITHFUL ONE!”
WE WILL REMEMBER!!!!!!!!
Thank you so much for sharing this song with all of us. I love songs that express my gratitude to the Lord for His amazing FAITHFULNESS!!!!
“I love songs that express my gratitude to the Lord for His amazing FAITHFULNESS!!!!”
THAT, is what worship is.
Ya know, when we joined PDI back in the early 90′s, we greatly enjoyed the worship music that focused on the “joy of our salvation”.
Over the years we noticed that it slowly changed to something more like the “misery of our sin.”
I do feel sorry at times for people who hang their heads low under the weight of their sin, when they should be rejoicing in their GREAT REDEEMER.
Ya know, when we joined PDI back in the early 90’s, we greatly enjoyed the worship music that focused on the “joy of our salvation”.
Over the years we noticed that it slowly changed to something more like the “misery of our sin.”
What are you grateful to God for?
I am so grateful for His faithfulness to me. I am grateful for his protection. I am grateful for Jesus my Savior and that He calls me friend. I am grateful for Abba Father that He calls me His daughter. I am grateful for the Holy Spirit my
“Helper” and my “Comforter” who illuminates the eyes of my heart that I might know the hope that he has called me to in Christ Jesus and the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints of which each of us are who have received Christ.
What would you ask of Him?
I would ask that God would continue to heal my family. This past Sunday at the church where I now attend we were encouraged to come prepared to intercede for any “prodigal sons” in our families. The pastor pointed out a very important thought: Jesus, our perfect and blameless Savior has had many “prodigal sons.” He encouraged those of us who have children who are wayward to exchange “guilt”
for “grace.” For if our perfect Heavenly Father has had “prodigal sons” and our perfect blameless Savior had “prodigal sons” (think of Judas who sold Christ for 30 pieces of silver) than we must not be shocked when we as Christian parents, who love our children dearly, who have taught them the truth with all of our heart, find our very own children straying from the truth. I went to the alter Sunday evening where we were encouraged to write on paper that was provided the names of our “prodigal sons” (whether it be within our own family, friends, neighbors). We prayed over these and later they were put in a box up on the platform where they will remain for the month of August for the church to continue to intercede for. You can be assured there were many tears flowing that night. Many of us have prayed for
years for our loved ones. I cried out to God for my husband and my own sons. As I spread the papers on the alter, I could only think of King Hezekiah in Isaiah 37, as he spread out the letter before God that he had received from the enemy who taunted him that His God would not come through for His people. But, King Hezekiah cried out to God for His mercy and for deliverance for His people. God heard King Hezekiah’s prayer and not long afterwards brought victory. As I spread these papers on the alter Sunday night, I cried out to God to bring victory. My prayer is for mercy for my husband and my sons. I left those papers there on the alter that night just as in so many ways I have laid my husband and my sons before God and left them there in His hands.
My Prayer: “Dear Abba Father, please have mercy on my wayward husband and sons.
Please draw them to yourself by your Holy Spirit and illuminate the eyes of their hearts to the hope that is in Jesus Christ. Save them I pray. Amen!”
Please remember INC and her family in your prayers. She and her family are going through a major readjustment. Pray for rest, peace, and a smoothing of their way. Thanks!:)
Just wanted to make use of the “prayer” request column to ask for prayer – it’s looking increasingly likely that I’m going to be meeting the SGM UK leaders in the near future to discuss my experience with them, and I’m feeling sick with worry about it.
I know it’s crazy, I’ve got nothing to lose, but it was such a dark time after leaving that church. I truly felt like they had cast me to Satan and fully expected to die. I felt so sick that I had trusted them and confided secrets I haven’t even told my family and they turned round and called me all the names under the sun.
The idea of seeing them again doesn’t make me feel good – but I know that this meeting is important for moving on past this. So I’d so value prayer from you guys – true friends! And I will of course keep you updated and let you know what happens.
Thanks so much – each and everyone of you (even the current SGM-ites) are special people!
1) Recognize it is possible that this meeting may not help you move on
2) Consider taking a friend along with you
The dark time you experienced after leaving (and probably while you were part of SG) can melt in the light of the glorious Gospel; that is my prayer for you!
Dan,
I second FSGP’s advice. And I would add that you should meet at a “nuetral” spot. Go to a coffee house or restaurant rather than at the church. And take a level headed solid Christian friend with you.
Thanks SO much for loving advice and prayer It gives me such courage!
FSGP – thanks so much, I had decided on taking a friend (putting Matthew 18 into practice … “two or three witnesses”) I do hear you about the meeting maybe not helping.
Cala – The comment on neutral spot is excellent, I will definately ask for this! I think it was the idea of having to go into those offices full of “approved” books … yuck!
God bless you Dan. Keep us posted!
Agreed on all suggestions so far. Perhaps your current pastor would join you?
(if you have one) Or older mentor?
A neutral, public place is CRITICAL!
(And if you could record it I would)
Also, when we had such a critical meeting we asked friends to intercede for us ON the location where we were, during the meeting. It was hugely comforting and helpful, I believe. If God would provide such friends able to do this I highly recommend it.
Finally, a non-local friend was praying with us, and for us, during that meeting, and she reminded me about the Armor that we have (Ephesians 6:10-20);
The belt of Truth = Jesus is the way, the Truth and the Life
The breastplate of Righteousness = Jesus is our righteousness
The shoes of the Gospel = Jesus, author of the Gospel & our Shalom
The shielf of faith extinguishes satan’s darts = Jesus, the name above every other name
The helmet of Salvation = only in Jesus
The Sword of the Spirit = Jesus, the Word
With this armor, you can pray, in the name of Jesus!
The Whole Armor of God 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.
Praying for you, Dan.
I agree with the suggestions presented and am glad you are going to heed them.
May I suggest one more thing? If the people you are meeting with try to turn the conversation around to get off the topic of your agenda items, I suggest you state (as many times as necessary), “I’d like to discuss that with you, but right now I would like to continue discussing these things. Perhaps we can make an appointment at a later date to discuss those matters.” Then it would be up to you to meet again (or not) as you wish. The idea is to not allow them to refocus the meeting or avoid talking about what you need to discuss.
I agree with Remnant. Even suggesting an agenda may save you some heartache.
I was scheduled to meet with 2 leaders from my xSGc. I proposed having an agenda and setting some time frames. The senior pastor said the meeting would be short because they just wanted to thank me for my service (and I heard a voice saying “Red Alert!”). When I checked on the other leader he said the meeting could go on for hours as there were many issues to resolve. This all came months after I had resigned from leadership and a month or so after I resigned from membership. The meeting never occurred.
Remnant
SGM Leaders turn the tables and try to put back the focus on members or regular members? No way. LOL
That was very good addtional advice.
For one case I know of, the SGM Leader said I wonder if your wife has a problem with bitterness (or something along those lines). Her husband responsded I am sure she has a problem like all people do with this but lets get back to the issue at hand.
I thought that was a good way to handle this.
Thanks so much again for the continued advice and support, believe me I truly am taking note of each and every comment! It’s so wonderful feeling like I am not going alone but have an amazing group of people behind me! Essential when particularly I am going to this meeting knowing that my family and parents would be firmly on the side of SGM.
I’ll add my prayers as well but isn’t it a sad observation that the whole armor of God is needed to defend Dan against a likely assault that will be carried out by brothers in Christ?
I wanted to thank you all so so much for your prayers – so far I dare to hope they have worked! I have had a very gracious email from the SGM apostley person agreeing to a meeting and sounding promising.
Sadly though – my nephew is getting dedicated near the end of the month at the SGM flagship church (for the UK) in Wales, and so of course that has prompted the inevitable scenario – I’ve got to go, but not having been disfellowshipped before (!!) I have had to go through the humiliation of writing and asking permission to attend.
I don’t know – maybe disfellowshipping only applies to the sole SGM church you are booted out of. But knowing SGM – who knows?! Disfellowhipping is a word that only the Jehovah’s Witnesses use that I know of, and someone kicked out from there can’t attend any other Kingdom Halls. I guess the same is true of SGM – although if I turned up to Covenant Life Church in Maryland, I wonder if I could sneak past the stewards?!
But seriously, I would so so value on-going prayers – that the apostle man will agree to let me know go for the sake of my family and it will be okay. And will keep updated with news of the meeting as it goes!
I will pray that you can go to your own nephew’s dedication. At CLC, the disfellowshipped can attend any public meeting, but not members-only meeTings (like care group or family meetings etc). GE attended for two years before being re-fellowshipped in the fall.
I backtracked, read your story, and was horrified. Do you currently attend a church and have a pastor? That would be a good person to take along to your meeting. The key is for you and any one with you to be prepared to challenge their approach to your situation. You mentioned that your family is involved in SGM, will any of them back you up? Finally, Do Not be intimidated. Regardless of what you may or may not have done, you did not deserve the treatment you recieved.
Dan, I agree with MM – it shows that you love your family, with all the effort you are making. I pray that the Lord will go before you, to make the way smooth.
Dan
I sure hope that the leadership in England humbly reconsiders what they did to you. It sure doesn’t look like they considered what their actions did to you including the strain it put on your family relationship. Leaders should not so cavalierly use what they did to you as they appear to have done.
Sadly but ironically what these leaders did could have set you up for sin vs helping keep you from sin. When one is estranged from his family it can make it harder to resist temptation etc.
Thus these leaders should have really given more thought to what they did before doing it IMO.
I never thought I would be able to see good coming out of my whole SGM experience but I can honestly say that “meeting” all you amazing people has done me so much good. I’ve laughed and cried and learnt from each and every one of you and I am so grateful for your love, care and advice. The worst experience of my life was immediately after feeling like I must be the evil, wrong one because who else has been cast out of a church? Then meeting this community of people and realising that actually we are NOT in the wrong – our only crime was to believe the best in our leaders maybe (and part of me still wants to).
So thank you all so much!
Greg – thanks, yes I am going to take my pastor along – he has walked through all this with me for years, a man I knew even before SGM. My family won’t stand with me – my parents are SGM-through and through.
So glad you have your pastor to go along, who knows all the facts because he has history with you. It breaks my heart that your parents won’t stand with you. Where is the love of Jesus, who did not come to judge the world but to save it? I hope they will be moved by your example of God’s love. It can happen!
Thanks Jim! I didn’t realize I should click on the word “here” to read the testimonies. Got it! Looks like I have a lot of reading to do…
I have just started reading Dan’s story and haven’t gotten past his comment explaining that a Covenant Life Church (CLC) pastor named “Grant” sent Dan a sermon on “bitterness”. Just who is this “Grant” fellow?
I’m assuming that ya’ll know Grant Layman’s connection to the Mahaneys. For those who don’t, here’s some important info I found at the CLC website:
“Grant Layman grew up in Sarasota, Fla., and was raised by “God-fearing parents who modeled the Christian life and love for the local church,” he recounts. Grant says he can remember “having an awareness of God’s claim on his life and a desire to serve him at an early age.”
Grant accepted an invitation in 1980 at age 19 to move to the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C., to live with his sister, Carolyn, and her husband, C.J. Mahaney. C.J. was then the senior pastor of Gathering of Believers, the precursor to what is now Covenant Life Church. Grant says the personal care and training he received by living in C.J. and Carolyn’s home for five years was invaluable preparation for ministry.”
Dan,
just so you know, I’m here thinking of & praying for ya! I’m SO glad you are taking your pastor with you…remember “wise as serpents…” Take your time, don’t say much, and don’t be quick to agree to anything. Remember, SGM words have different definitions than they do in the real world.
Today in Atlanta we have snow. Real snow. I’m looking out my kitchen window at the oak and maple trees with snow perched precariously on every branch and twig. The sun is up and its light is reflecting off the snow, like glitter spread on every surface. There is no wind and it stopped snowing hours ago, but the temperature is slowly rising and the melting snow is gently falling from the trees and overhead wires, making it appear to be snowing all over again.
My father had major surgery two weeks ago, my mother is currently in the hospital and may have to go to a nursing home, both of my grown children have some serious issues going on at the moment, and overall it has been a rough season for us. I wonder sometimes what else is going to happen. But this morning, as I sit here gazing at this stunning, peaceful scene, I realize that I worship the God of peace. And somehow there is peace.
There have been other dark seasons like this in my life, when my faith was tested. One of them was the aftermath of our PDI experience. I can easily remember and relate to Been There’s one line comment above. All I can say, Been There, is that those of us who post here have been where you are as well. Know that we are praying for you. I pray that the God of peace will be with you, helping you sort everything out and bringing rest and healing to your life. We are here if you need anything.
What a beautiful testament to God’s peace. I’m praying for your family today. Snow in Atlanta – how’s that for global warming???!!!
Been There,
Gracie is right. We have “been there”. My prayers are for you, today. The Lord is the Great I Am. He is Love. His heart is for you. There is a way through. Don’t loose hope! We are so glad you posted.
How do you go back and grasp your original salvation and delight in God, when what you have been taught is “God’s only church” has flushed you? I can’t remember the joy of my salvation anymore.
“Been There” – - we’ve ALL known the heartbreak you are feeling of being “flushed” but while it sounds trite, I say Go BACK to…your FIRST LOVE!
Rekindle the JOY of your salvation! And….in my opinion the best place to do that is the Psalms! instead of hearing a message about your sinfulness spend time with your Risen Lord, and hear what He thinks of you, and why He died for you!
I just searched the “joy of my salvation” and look what came up: (Psalms 16:8-11 NKJV) I have set the LORD always before me; Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved. {9} Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices; My flesh also will rest in hope. {10} For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. {11} You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore http://www.seekgod.org/bible/joyofsalvation.html
If you prefer, open up your Bible! Start with Psalm 51, then go to Psalm 139, to see how much God cares about YOU – and how He made you in your mother’s womb.
Of course you are sad because some of God’s precious saints have rejected you. But GOD will never ever reject you! (See Romans 8)
Bottom line, dear saint, is that the ONLY place to go is BACK to Jesus, our Lord, our Comfort, and our Joy.
Praying for you tonight— That you will know and feel the Lord, the Redeemer …gently pick you up…and that words from the scriptures that have been special and life-giving to you in your life, will come up in your spirit and minister life and healing to you…that you will remember the truth of singing “Jesus loves me, this I know—for the Bible tells me so”…because God SO LOVED ‘Been There’ and ‘Pam’, that He gave His Son as a ransom for YOU……..and when you received Him,you stood up as the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus—You are Gods temple and Gods Spirit lives in YOU (I Cor 3:16).
Gods Truth is greater and more powerful than the heart-squeezing leaven of the pharisees–You are delivered from their hands —we in our family rejoice over this fact in our own lives and we rejoice with you—delivered from bondage of SGM and into His glorious Light anew…….day by day…step by step………..
Canary,I’m not too sure. I just can’t seem to be able to verbalize how I feel. When I try out a church or sit in a conversation about anything spiritual I just want to leave. I’m almost numb or something like that. I feel like all organized religion is not appealing to me at all right now. I know we shouldn’t be ruled by feelings but I’m so confused about this whole ordeal. After being brainwashed, I don’t trust anything. As I read here at Refuge and also Survivors, it brings up memories of what went on at my sgc. I guess I’m still processing. It’s just taking so long.
I was so numb at one point (this was at least two years after leaving pdi, after the elation at being set free had worn off some), that I could not read my bible or worship or attend any church. I was so disillusioned with organized religion. I didn’t know who I could ever trust again. The depression and confusion nearly wiped me out. But it didn’t. Do you know why? Because the love of our wonderful, Living God wouldn’t allow it. He kept me, even during the darkest moments when I wondered if I would ever feel anything again, let alone joy. Guess what? I got through it. I know joy like never before. I know His love in a way pdi/sgm could never show me because they couldn’t see anything but my sin. Glory, glory to Jesus!
Here is the key: all the Lord asks of us is that we believe. He will do the rest. It is faith that pleases Him, not obeying leaders, keeping your house clean, confessing sin at care group, making it to every meeting…faith pleases God. All you have to do is believe.
Believe what, you might ask? Well, we start at the beginning. First, we believe that He IS. He is the great I AM. Then, we believe that He is LOVE. His love will never fail you, even if you cannot feel it or see it around you. He loves you undeniably, tenaciously, fiercely.
Then, finally, because He loves you, He will NOT FAIL YOU, NOT EVER. Believe this. Be like a child who deals only with the simple truths. Let Jesus’ Spirit take over. Simply believe. He will do the rest, I promise.
As Hebrews speaks of, there is a sabbath rest for every believer. Jesus said that, when we come to Him, we will find rest for our souls. Resting in Him must come before we can ever find the joy. I am sure that you hunger for that rest. Cease striving. Let it all go. Put all your concerns, questions, and confusion into His really big hands. Rest. Believe. Go back to the place where it was all so simple.
We are all here to support you through this. God’s amazing grace be with you as you go back to the simple truth -that if you believe in Jesus and confess His name, you will be saved.
I was demolished by the slander of an arrogant CGL to the pastors and was “removed” from participation a long, long time ago. In a process to get to the bottom of things that took years, I think the pastors realized what happened to me was unjust. They have spent years trying to put me back together again and I love them for it. But, I’ve been unable to put myself together. Now, they have given up and I am on my own. Still a shambles.
During the time I was “out” I cried out to God and repented of my idol of wanting to be a part of the dearest place on earth. I worked hard at letting go and accepting for reasons I didn’t understand…that God didn’t want me in the dearest place on earth. Now, I feel unworthy of sitting at His table. I feel rejected by God. I’m on the outside looking in. It affects me to this day.
I am in today and welcome to be there. But, my heart feels estranged from God. I feel like I am intruding. I feel guilty for wanting to partake in spiritual things…like I’m party crashing. I feel beaten and I don’t know how to become whole again.
My question would be, why would sgm leadership be able to fix things when their very polity is what led to the injustice which happened to you? Has that polity changed? If not, how could they possibly be able to bring healing to you?
It might be time for you to receive some “outside” counsel. From what you say, this has gone on for years. Many of us struggled with our own understanding of God’s grace because sgm focused so much on sin, sin, sin. Does that go on where you are at? If so, it would explain why you feel like you are so unworthy to enter into the Lord’s presence.
Maybe it is time to look outside of sgm for the solution. Please pray over this. God does not want you to stay in a place of condemnation. No, No, No! His heart is for you to understand that His love is great, beyond measure. Read Waters above post again. It is so full of truth!
Please don’t be content with the status quo. There are many wonderful Christian counselors in other organizations who might be able to make sense of what you have been through. If, as you say, your pastors have given up on you, it is possible that they were never qualified to help you in the first place.
Canary, Sorry I didn’t post last night. When I got up this morning and saw what you wrote, it gave me hope. It made me cry. Thank you so much! I think I’m trying to hurry the grieving process along because it is painful. I feel guilty that I’m not going to church . I feel guilty my 2 left at home don’t want to go either. Bethany has a wonderful blog about her journey through this. She’s even got a new site on facebook called Storm the Church. My son just doesn’t ask to go and if we visit a church, he’ll go. Mainly because he’s compliant. You don’t know how much your words meant to me this morning. It even caused my husband to open up about his pain in this process. But you gave me hope.
Keep praying!
Pam,
it’ll be ok. Over 2 years after leaving sgm, I am finally getting to the place where I *sometimes* want to go to church. And this is at the church that I went to shortly after I became a Christian and was baptized, The pastor knows about the error going on at the sgm church. I can talk to him, and he and the other pastor believe in the priesthood of believers (even women!) and they believe that the Holy Spirit can speak to me more than they can!!
But I still test everything and think about everything and don’t take everything at face value. I remember feeling like you do. Just cling to Jesus. You don’t have to go to church right now. Let Him lead you when the time is right. He is faithful.
“been there” – run away, there is no life where you are, that’s why you feel like you do. It may take time, but the Holy Spirit will lead you to the place of refreshing. You are not getting the living water that you need where you are now, you are dry and thirsty. Only you have been thirsty for so long and haven’t had water for so long, that you have given up like a listless starving child in Africa. Jesus wants to guide you to safety and to start to gently hold you and let life giving spoonfuls of cool water trickle in your parched mouth down your throat. Let Him help you.
Your daughter, Bethany, has a very sweet spirit. Having family around you to work through the stuggles is invaluable. My two oldest have found a place down where they live. It is their first big step forward in finding a place to fellowship. They were old enough when we left pdi to be effected. The cool thing is that they have learned through the years to hunger for Jesus, to look for the truth. All of my family has, except my youngest daughter, on who’s behalf I seek the Lord constantly. So don’t worry about your kids. Pray for them. Let the Lord build His own relationship with their hearts. It is amazing to watch. Just look at Bethany!
I’m praying for you and your family, Pam. Like Ellie said, It’ll be okay!
I love when this happens. I just received this small encouragement from David Wilkerson’s Ministry. It couldn’t be more timely. http://www.worldchallenge.org/en/node/7472
Thank you Defended and Waters for the direction and Canary and others for the encouragement and support. I will pursue the scripture Defended gave me. That was very helpful.
Does anyone know of any sort of Christian counseling within the vicinity of the mother church?
Canary, Ellie, Defended— I love reading all your encouragement coming forth and the scriptures you highlighted—Gods Word truly is like water for our wounds……….
Been There….as you dive into those scriptures,expect Gods light of truth to begin to remove the veil and bring definition and clarity to where you are at right now……
Someone here must know of solid Christian counselors in your area. I do not, though one
resource to help you locate some might be the Focus on the Family ministries website.
Pam and Been There……….Breathe in the breath of God and spirit of life…exhale religious deceptions and cords………..and KNOW, because you are sons and daughters of the Most High God…God WILL “show you the path of life; In His Presence IS fullness of joy…”
(PS 16:11)……..day by day…….step by step………on His lighted path………
Been There & Pam,
We do understand where you are, we been there too. (Still there to some degree.)
In my experience, only the Holy Spirit can bring the comfort, healing, and return to you, the Joy of Your Salvation.
So, as you enjoy the scriptures, we will pray that God reveals Himself to you in a new way, as only He can do. (Ps 119:18)
When your anxious thoughts multiply within you, His consolations will delight your soul. (PS 94:19) (He does so for me, EVERY TIME.)
-Defender
Defender and Waters and all who have been encouraging,
Thank you so much. I don’t feel so all alone. I also have a question. Have you heard the new sgm term for churches? ” Gospel Centers” What’s up with that?
Canary, thanks for sharing that post by David Wilkerson. We are attending his son’s church in Colorado Springs and finding it very refreshing.
Pam, Been There, I’m praying for you. There is life after SGM – one filled with grace, mercy, hope, love, fruitfulness, and everything you once desired and believed in.
What is the name of the church? I have always admired D. Wilkerson’s deep faith. I did not know his son had a church in the area.
Been There,
Like Waters suggested, Focus on the Family would be a good place to start searching for a counselor. A friend of mine, whose story I am not free to tell (believe me, it is a horrific sgm leaving), went to a Baptist counselor and is doing very well today. All you need is someone who will listen without judging, give you good insights, and help you back on your feet again, to stand in grace. Check some of the churches in your area who are not related to sgm, and who walk in freedom. They may have counselors available.
I know this might seem like a daunting task, but as you take your first steps in finding help, the Lord will be right there to lead you. He desires you to find your joy in Him. He is FOR you!
Been There, I’m in the neighborhood of the mothership myself. I actually found my EAP to be a good place to get some emergency (and free) counseling. The church I attend right now has a brochure in the lobby for Christian counselors–and when I called a while back they got back to me pretty quickly. I could get you the phone number if you like.
It’s been a while, and I am wondering how things are going. Were you able to attend the baby dedication, Have you and your pastor met with the SGM “apostley person”?
Dear friends,
Would you please pray for my sweet mother. She has many health issues and has taken a bad turn. Currently she is in ICU with a 50/50 chance of survival. Thanks for your prayers.
Gracie
Hi Canary,
Glad to hear you found a church to go to on Easter. Not there yet. Still feeling a little lost and vacillating back and forth about what’s been truth and what’s sgm-ese. I’m hanging in there just not ready to step out there and commit to any organized church. Keeping in touch with a sweet friend who is also a refugee from sgm. She’s a real encourager and helps me not feel so alone.
Oh Pam, it is so discouraging to feel that way, I am sure. Please know that you are doing nothing wrong by taking your time. You may not feel that way, but I know I felt lots of condemnation for it and had people tell me how wrong I was. I knew I needed to hear God and not others so I’m glad I waited for His leading and not the advice of others.
Good words, Stunned. Pam, it is so good that you have a friend to walk with you during this time. Jesus is with you too, even if you can’t feel Him. His Spirit is going to show you what is true, and what stuff to throw away. Rest in Him.
Thanks, guys.
I’m also feeling a little blah because I’ve been in bed with the stomach bug. How long can this thing last? I’m not a very patient patient.
My dear brothers and sisters,
I can’t express how thankful I am for your concern and prayers. My mother is battling on. The doctor who admitted her to the hospital Tuesday saw her again today. He was pleased with her improvement. She’s not out of the woods yet, but she is beating the odds. Those were his exact words.
We are currently building an addition on our house so that my mom and dad can come to live with us. Our hope is to have some happy years together with them.
Thanks be to God and to each of you. Your prayers and support mean everything.
Gracie
Gracie— Praising God with you and your family…..will continue to pray for your mom.
And that you will see your hope come to pass to enjoy your parents within the new addition to your home. *** Gods peace and enduring strength to you all***
So happy for you Gracie! Having been there taking care of my mom, remember to rest, take time for yourself so you can be ready for the stress. I loved the time I spent with my mom but did not realize how essential it is to take breaks. Spending time at the hospital and eating on the run and being upbeat for those we care for is very draining. Still praying!
Hello all. I have yet another good report of the kindness of our Lord. Today my mother is coming off of the feeding tube and the respirator. She is awake, alert, responsive, and getting downright ornery! Isn’t it wonderful!
Thank you again for your prayers and encouragement. Not only has the Lord given my mother more time with us, but there have even been some “come to Jesus” moments in the hearts of those in our family, as you can imagine. The result? Reconciliation and healing in some relationships within my family. For those who remember my comments awhile back regarding family members missing at our Christmas table, well… some will be back this year. Not all, but some. And we are REJOICING!
So my friends, I don’t know many of your faces and only a few of your names, but nonetheless, you are all dear to me. Thank you.
Gracie——– So very thankful to hear your mom is making progress towards healing—Praise God!! And how wonderful to hear the news of your family—praying the Lord Himself, our Redeemer, will continue to knit family members hearts together and bring healing and restoration and joy as you all walk in His light…God is so so faithful…..
We are both under it physically, but specially spiritually. I’m at my end with SGM as I have tried to remain hopeful for positive signs of change. Because I don’t fell the brunt of many heavy-handed shepherding tactics, I get lulled into thinking everything’s okay, and then I become aware of brethren who are NOT okay, and it weighs on me and struggle with this quandary all over again. I need refreshing, and freedom in Christ. I want wifey and I to feel that nature of being new creations in Him.
I write and beg and plead for change, always measuring what elements are personal wants and trying to come to terms with when I see glaring contradictions in our practices when seen in the light of scripture. All I can see in the natural is more sandbagging until nuisances like me go away. I have a lot of family in SGM, I want to stay with them and pretend all of the issues aren’t there.
But my conscience on matters is eating me alive. It’s never at peace unless it has a pure, unfiltered Jesus.
If I may be so bold as to request just prayers in your responses,if you do respond, and avoid any ”You need to…” statements. My wife and I are up to our gills in the you-need-tos. We’re up to our gills in performance-based faith (instigated largely by ourselves but worsened when we fear retribution on speaking our mind), up to our gills in everything, it seems. Apologies if this is a selfish request on the you-need-to comments.
We are weary, and just want Christ. Pray for us, and it is appreciated.
Praying for you to be washed in the Lovingkindness and Mercy of God.
May the Holy Spirit comfort you and reveal His renewing of your spirit and minds.
And most of all may you both experience His peace.
Love you Brother
~D
PK and PD…….so effected by your prayer request…….praying,interceeding,battling for you both………Father,hold these weary warriors in Your arms while the saints interceede on their behalf……..our love to you both……..
While praying for you yesterday, I had a sense of gratefulness for the inspiration you have been to us all. Just wanted you to know that you’ve meant a lot to the folks on the Refuge, giving us wisdom and balance. Now it is our turn to be a strength for you and your wife! Will continue to pray for you both this week…
I’m impressed with what I do know of the grace that you have shown in working through this issue. I want to encourage you that the spritual desires you have are genuine and from the Lord. I am proaying He wil fullfill them for you and your wife in His way and His timing.
Oh, PK, on another page I just left you a “you need to”. I’m so sorry. I hadn’t read here first and had no idea exactly what you were going through. Please forgive me.
PK, how bout a “thank you” instead of a “you need to.” You have definitely impacted this family, whom you don’t know, with your stand. Our lives were changed in significant ways because of your obedience to seek the Truth and we are grateful for you.
…And I’m praying rest for you and your wife in Jesus, and know He will be pleased to give it. Blessings
PK and PD, Hugs and love to you both! It’s a long road out but it can be done. I know it’s hard for you because of the family situation and the long standing relationships. It was very hard for us when we left because our best friends (and children’s best friends) abandoned us. You have a harder decision because of the family issue. Our God is a God of miracles. I will be praying for you both and for the power of God to be at work in your lives and the lives of your family!
Greg: Thank you. What a compliment and what an encouragement!
Ellie: Thank you!
Stunned: No worries whatsoever. There are days I put chips (like the no-you-need-to chip) on my shoulder when I shouldn’t. Your prayers are appreciated. Once again, no worries.
Hope…I am speechless at that compliment. Not sure what to say but “you’re welcome,” and “thank YOU,” for your prayers.
Well, dear friends, I must inform you that after a lovely Mother’s Day with my family, my sweet mother took a turn for the worse and peacefully passed from this world into the arms of Jesus. I am so very grateful and so very saddened at the same time. As you know, the last few weeks with her have brought changes in our family, chances to make amends and begin again. I will be forever thankful to the Lord for those redemptive opportunities. But, the addition we’ve almost completed will have one less occupant, and I grieve for my loss and my dad’s. She was one of my best friends and I love her so dearly.
The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
Oh Gracie, Lifting up you and your family in prayer..and that underneath you all,the Comfort of the Fathers everlasting Arms will uphold you all……..and may our Savior Redeemer continuously knit the hearts of your family together in His unfailing love……
I could just cry. My heart is broken for you. I know how much you will miss your Mom. How wonderful that you spent one more Mother’s Day with her. My friend, I know that she is in the most wonderful place with our Lord, but that doesn’t remove the grief you feel. I pray that God’s comfort and strength will be upon you and your family.
Sono Harris has only a few weeks to live. They found colon cancer that has spread to her liver and other areas. Let’s put aside the differences and pray for her and her family.
Oh, dear Gracie, I’m so so sorry for your loss and for your father and family. What a wonderful blessing to be able to say that your mother was your friend. It must be an awful loss. I am praying for you all.
Just wanted to stop in to thank each of you for your sympathy and prayers during these last two weeks. Our family is hurting still, but the Lord is faithful and is seeing us through. Your remarks here and sincere expressions of sorrow for us have touched my heart.
Thank you,
Gracie
I am thankful to God for these verses, which seem to sum up what’s going on with PD and me now (pray that Protestant Dame [PD] and I graft this into ourselves, and get it into our bloodstream):
Do not call to mind the former things,
Or ponder things of the past.
Behold, I will do something new,
Now it will spring forth;
Will you not be aware of it?
I will even make a roadway in the wilderness,
Rivers in the desert.
The beasts of the field will glorify Me,
The jackals and the ostriches,
Because I have given waters in the wilderness
And rivers in the desert,
To give drink to My chosen people.
The people whom I formed for Myself
Will declare My praise. (Isaiah 43:18-21, NASB)
And now for the praise part (this comes from both PD and me):
The LORD is my shepherd,
I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside quiet waters.
He restores my soul;
He guides me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil, for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
You have anointed my head with oil;
My cup overflows.
Surely goodness and lovingkindness will follow me all the days of my life,
And I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever. (Psalm 23, NASB)
Please pray for me. I have a meeting this week with a man who attended the SG church I did. He has been gone for about 2 years and has gone to some trouble to track me down. He wants to talk about what happened.
These meetings take a huge toll on me. For those of you who have been there or are there, you know what I mean.
Former… definitely not a “fun time”, but hopefully God will use this time to bring clarity and answers to this man. You are doing a very good thing! Praying for you now and this week…
Former SG Pastor,
Praying, God restores what the locusts have eaten, in this man, and in yourself.
May your time together be full of the Love of God.
His will be done.
Defender
FSGP, it’s a privilege to join you arm in arm, asking for Abba’s love to flow unobstructedly as you share your heart to this man that has come back into your life.
Hey there. I don’t know if you are worried for the reasons I think you might be, but if you are, I hope what I am about to say is an encouragement.
After reading on here and at sgmsurvivors, I discovered how things went behind the scenes at SGM. Things us “regular people” like me knew nothing about- like reporting homegroup attendance to the pastors or behind the scenes discussions about things people shared in homegroup that they thought were between them and the few people they chose to share with. I found out other things from the ex-leaders on here and most of them were things that I considered to be bad and lacking a great deal of integrity and love.
I felt many things. Betrayal was one of them. Anger. Righteous anger. Self-righteous anger. Hurt. Relief (now some of the crazy making finally made sense.) A myriad of emotions. I got quite upset with some of the ex leaders that post here. I was stunned by some of the behind the scenes stuff that amounted to (in my opinion) selling another out for the sake of being a “better” sheep, but a sheep none the less. (Sheep being used in a negative connotation.) I was enraged when I realized that many of us on here had lowered their own standards, integrity and morals in order to look good in the eyes of the SGM leadership. I’m not talking about the “ugly” kind of sin like sleeping around and taking drugs. I’m talking about the uglier kinds of sin like not speaking 100% truth that would protect their fellow church members from harm. Not standing up for those in their care, no matter the circumstances.
I got good and angry and good and ugly with a few people here. I didn’t name any names, I was just stunned with some of what was coming out. I was reeling. I couldn’t believe that the people I had loved and supported would betray my confidences like that and that this was common practice in many of the SGM churches. Again, no one here by name. I can’t even remember what I said and I didn’t say it to anyone specifically. More like a general, “Wait, you all mean to tell me that you participated in this crap and were able to sleep at night?! So it was people like you who hurt me when I didn’t even know it and you all supposedly had the integrity to be homegroup leaders when it turns out the homegroup leaders were often the ass kissers who lacked the freaking integrity to stand up and became more like Saul’s who were at best standing by and watching the coats of the dudes throwing the rocks and approving of this bs?!” But I don’t remember specifics of what I said.
But you know what I DO remember? I remember the love.
I remember the care.
Here I was hurting and bleeding all over the people I was angry with. They weren’t even the ones who had specifically done it to me. But they CARED. They LOVED me. Jim and Carole and the whole lot of them- they loved me. They didn’t defend themselves one iota, though they may have had every right to. They said they were sorry when not one of them were even the ones who had hurt me. But they still said they were sorry that they hadn’t taken better, more gentle care for those who were in their paths. Their love turned my anger into tears. Deep gashes that were oozing from my side were being slathered with the balm of the love of God and true repentance of the saints. Not a single one of them had ever hurt me individually, but they were repenting of their own insensitivities in the times they could have been more vocal on the behalf of others. (Please correct me if I’m misrepresenting ya’ll here. I don’t mean to.)
They LISTENED to me, when I was striking out in an anguishing gutteral cry. It felt as if they sat beside me and cried with me instead of judging me for hurting. Instead of trying to explain to me WHY I shouldN’T be hurting. Instead of defending themselves or justifying themselves. They let themselves get past their own pain and they saw my pain. And they let themselves love this angry, hurting woman. They were beautiful.
And it has made such a difference.
I don’t know if I could have ever trusted any of them again had they responded differently.
I don’t think I could have ever come by here but to point my finger and yell at them that they were just as bad as the system they were calling for change in. But they weren’t. Because they had seen error and they were genuinely, truly sorry for any little or big part they played in it. (Again, guys, if i am misrepresenting you, please speak up.)
They did much to bring me healing that day/week.
And I am grateful to each of them that spoke up and addressed me. And I am grateful to each of them that kept quite and didn’t start hurling rocks back at me.
They were beautiful.
And I am grateful.
I pray that if you find yourself in that situation when you meet with this person, you will have as much grace and care and love with him as the people here have had with me.
And if that’s not the scenario that will play out when you meet, if it’s on more of those cases where he’s coming to tell you how much you suck for leaving SGM, in that case, man, I’m sorry you’ll have to go through that again. That stinks. I’ll be praying you don’t slug him. (If you’re tempted in the same way I am. )
Hope it goes well and let us know how it went for you.
Stunned-I had no idea. What I think I was doing was reminding myself to love the jerkyest SGM’r, because I was one. Now I’m just a jerky blogger
I think that I was also trying to repent to those at my ex sgc, who aren’t particularly interested in hearing from me. I’m the one who is now stunned. I still don’t understand this blog.
Your words will keep us open for a while ( I have no idea how long). I’ve been praying (again) this week about shutting down. I even found the u2 song I’d use to say goodbye.
Jim, let me save you some time in prayer. The answer is no. No, it is NOT time to shut down this blog. God told me so. (OK, so He didn’t tell me, but there is much great work happening here. I for one am blessed by it and don’t think it’s time to shut down.)
I’m glad my rambling confession of my sin and hurt had some good fruit. I guess you just don’t know how powerful your words and this blog can be. (Yes, you were one of the ones whose words were gracious and loving- I can’t believe you didn’t see what you and the others did- I thought it would have been so abudantly clear to everyone but I get that it wasn’t.)
So to sum things up, no Honey-chile/Friend/Brother, no, my vote is please don’t shut this puppy down.
PS. I’m guessing it’s a lot more stressful to run than many of us think. Is there anything we can do to make it easier on you and Carole?
Missus Former ain’t doing so great post-SG, spiritually. More of a delayed reaction compared to this writer. She recently talked about how she can’t listen to the old SG music; it evokes too many memories of things gone bad. Has little desire to darken a church door.
Oh maaaan. Prayers, for sure, for Mrs. Former.
And theres lots of us girls here who would be glad to just nod, knowingly, or encourage her if she was wanting some. The truth of the matter is that there IS a sad deprogramming and decompression needed by all of us in my less-than-humble opinion.
The music thing is completely understandable. I kind of vascillate there myself somewhat. When I hear Chris L’s voice singing “how high and how wide” is God’s love for us on “Chosen Treasure” I celebrate that truth yet grieve for how that is NOT the nature of the worship songs we heard as we were leaving. “Grace upon Grace” ? yeah, no.
anyway, I want to invite Mrs. Former to email anytime, or just know that she is being lifted up in caring prayers.
She’ll be ok, she’s just shedding some of the old stuff. As long as she has time to spend with Jesus without pressure, the Holy Spirit will guide her into where He wants her.
There’s lots of good worship music out there to listen to, and if that’s even too much right now, God can use other kind of music to draw her to Himself – classical, celtic, folk, etc. Spending time in nature and community & cultural activities helps, too.
Just trust the Holy Spirit and let HIM guide her, no pressure is best.
The Missus is not alone. If it weren’t for the Holy Spirit, I’d still be curled up in a fetal position under the covers on Sunday mornings. He promised never to leave or forsake us. For a while, He just curled up there with me and held me in His everlasting arms as my heart and mind went numb. I wanted nothing to do with church or the music I’d once loved. After a time, He took me by the hand and led me, blindfolded, to places I’d never dreamed of.
When it comes to music, fabulous stuff was written way before SGM, outside of SGM, and will continue. Listen to good stuff, wherever it comes from, whichever genre it represents, if it ministers to you. If it doesn’t — change the station!
FSGP-I will pray for the missus. I too, did not want to listen to music (worship) or go to a fellowship anywhere. it was months before i was even willing to visit other fellowships. It has been over a year and i am still suffering from the side effects of leaving. It is not as bad as it was when i first left but still feel marked. There are men and women who love the Lord who will help her heal from all that has happened, but for me it was the Word and the Holy Spirit restored to pre-emminence in my life that helped me to start walking down the road to wholeness. Have faith in Jesus!! He brought her out to be the woman he always intended!!!!
FSGP
I am right there with your wife and so is my daughter. I wish there was a place we could all meet face to face and support each other. This site and Canary’s site help alot but I still can’t bring myself to listen to many songs not just SGM. I hope I’m not scaring you. I’ve been gone about 18 months and it’s still hard. I just got invited by a friend to go to her church’s women’s retreat. I was touched that she thought of me but that is the last thing I want to do at this point. I feel like my goldens do when they go to the vet. I feel so “unspiritual” yet wanting to feel “spiritual’. I’ll be praying for your wife. As a side note, my daughter was told at a Celebration in Indiana, Pa. through a prophetic word that “she was seen as a beautiful flower in a desert. That she would stand out and be a mighty influence.” I don’t think the person saying this thought my daughter would be in the position she is now (out of sgm). She’s using that prophecy on her blog. I have to be honest and say I’m not sure how I feel about prophesy but it’s almost amusing to see how she’s using it to tell the truth about sgm.
Oh, man, that still happens to me but it has grown less painful.
If she wants to email to talk with someone, I am available (just let me know she’s Mrs. FSGP or some sort of notice so it doesn’t find its was into my junk mailbox.) db604406@wcupa.edu
Square Peg, your “fetal position” is how I felt but it took about two years to set in. I guess the first few years were exciting because of the new found freedom.
FSGP, what is happening to your wife is to be expected. Love and grace plus the Holy Spirit will get her through. I still don’t understand what true worship means, or maybe I find more of that in the quiet. The Lord is going to be faithful to turn this experience into good for Mrs. Former. It just takes time. All us ladies are here if she wants to talk. I’ll be praying especially for her this week!
Because you both were involved in leadership, Mrs. Former might struggle more because she was in more deeply. Wonder if Mrs. Irv can help? Irv was a former pastor as well. Maybe there are more specific problems that they would both understand better. I am so grateful that my husband and I were only within the deeper “circle” for a short time – the damage too our lives would have been much greater if we had stayed. Those of you who saw more might need a different sort of counsel than those of us who knew instinctively that something was wrong but couldn’t prove anything. Just a thought. God bless!
FSGP,
I remember how my personal worship was shut down after our PDI experience, and I vividly remember the day I realized He had brought me through and I could worship freely again. Praying for your dear wife.
Mrs FSGP – Mrs. Irv would be glad to visit but she is probably not as gracious as I am. She (unfortunately sometimes) always tells the truth. Let us know how we can stand with you of if you would like make contact with Mrs. Irv. We do feel your pain but also the excitement for you because there is life and life abundantly after SGM / PDI.
Video Skype is outstanding. I work with my partners in different parts of the world on a daily basis. And it is cheap —- well like it is free — better than cheap.
I know that after we left (after being involved for 16 or so years) it took awhile to be able to, much less want to, worship. Go to church? No way! But in time (and each one of us has a different time table) I was able to start worshiping God again. It was through drawing closer to Him on a personal basis and immersing myself in His Word that He was able to heal me and bring me to a place of worship. It was a new and deeper worship than before. Now I was motivated to worship Him for who He was and what He had done for me–not because the music or the band or worship team. I could let myself go and immerse myself in Him. I could worship the One who made me and loved me more than any one else–no matter what I had done or said.
Give her time, encourage her, love her. God will finish the good work He has begun in her.
I recommend she listen to whatever music that touches her. I love Celtic music, it stirs me deep in my soul. But, I am part Irish!
What is most interesting in all the SGM stories is this identical thread, especially among us sisters: realize abuses at SGM, get up the courage to leave SGM, curl up in fetal position on Sunday mornings, viscerally react to SGM music, fear leadership in other worshiping bodies.
This is more important than many realize. To have that sort of emotional reaction? Just not the norm in your typical “just not the church for me” church-leaving.
When we visited SGM churches, (I’m an apostate Mormon, Smith-family, high cult-radar settings), the hair on my neck stood up. The music seemed too designed to me, too intent on taking me somewhere emotionally. (I prefer very contemporary music, old hymns, so it wasn’t the style–rabbit trail: have y’all investigated Indelible Grace music?).
We are told to gather together for worship. Church offices are described in the Word. However we interpret that is fine.
But look what happens to many post-SGM. Gathering together, trusting elders, worshiping with music becomes terrifying.
SGM supporters, open your eyes. WHO IS GIVING THE CUP OF WATER, AND WHO IS CAUSING THE LITTLE ONES TO SIN???
Mark 9:40 ff: I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward. And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.
I see a dripping ladle in the hands of many on this site. But I’m sensing a millstone approaching for some pastors. What have you done to cause the beloved of Jesus to be so hurt and afraid of his own people?
Traveling Girl, your comment made me think of this…
I have a dear, dear friend that I love to worship with whenever I get the chance. He’s an older gentlemen, not “showy” at all, very humble and quiet in spirit; but it’s OBVIOUS he is in total communion with the Lord and in a state of worship. (Of course, worship is more than just song, but I’m referencing song.)
He worships with his eyes closed – always – never an exception; even when it’s a new song and he doesn’t know the words – he will just listen. I mentioned that I observed that particular trait about him one time and he looked at me amused. He told me that if he looked at the worship team he would actually be distracted from the Lord and caught up in all that was taking place on stage.
Funny, we now call it a stage…we used to call it a “choir loft.” I grew up in a church with a choir in a choir loft. I never remember being distracted by the choir – they were all dressed alike in choir robes, singing beautifully (and spirited), holding their little black binders of music sheets.
I love my current church, and the ”praise and worship team,” but I do find myself being distracted. I know there’s a difference between ”corporate” worship and personal worship, but somehow corporate worship seemed more focused when the “worship team” wasn’t ”front and center”, on a ”stage”, in a kind of ”performance” mode.
(Btw, I’m NOT anti-contemporary Christian music. I have a CD case full of it in my car. However I do love the old hymns, as well.)
FSGP…I don’t want to say much because It will quickly expose who I m. But the many days I spent worshipping you your and you fa., where some of sweetest to these days. She had a very abvious Lord for God that many “gleaned” from her as well as me. I wept, as you wept when you guys sat in the back of the church to “worship” Can you just tell Sue thie one thing? She will never live long enough to talk to all the believe all the people who dearly and respected her.She had a kind warm spirit that was only surpassed by her Ferverant Love for the Lord. I love her miss her so much, as do thousands of other Ladies. So do not listen to what the enemy may speak to you this week, but Prepare you and eyes to be filled with the sweet truthfullness of His Heart toward. You are so dearly loved my Sis.
FSGP said, “Missus Former ain’t doing so great post-SG, spiritually. More of a delayed reaction compared to this writer. She recently talked about how she can’t listen to the old SG music; it evokes too many memories of things gone bad. Has little desire to darken a church door.”
Former, please pass on to her that I STILL can’t listen to the music, 9 years after I left. I doubt I EVER will be able to. As far as darkening church doors, there is plenty of darkness in churches. No need for her to add to it. No, seriously, it took me over 5 years to be able to start attending a church regularly. I spent a lot of time doubting that it was God who was leading me to stay away. I was SURE that it was somehow my disobedience, rebellion or sin. Now I look back and can say with 100% surety that it WAS God that kept me away. He wanted me all to himself for that time. Was the best thing that could have happened. Best. Hand’s down.
There is a small book that was used (just a bit) in that time period. Good Girls Don’t Change the World. One sentence has stuck with me for years and God used it to minister to me over and over again. Just a suggestion if she is ever looking for something to read.
Give her lots of your love and remind yourself and her that it is NOT all about the local church but about God loving you and you loving Him.
Stunned said: He wanted me all to himself for that time.
Ya know isn’t that the truth every day? He really wants us for Himself! Stunned, you are so sensitive to the Holy Spirit, so compassionate in your posts. You are wonderfully encouraging.
I pray Mrs. Former is as blessed and encouraged as I am, in reading of your process of deliverance and liberty.
Lol. go ahead and weep. You are precious!
But ya know, that’s the thing. I think we can really forget -and I think SG.M likes to suppress it as much as possible – that ALL that really matters is Jesus. That’s ALL that really matters!! And He is worthy to have us to Himself for a season! Think how much work – ministry, comfort, care – you needed to get put back together after all the SG Damage?!
Who said “love God and do as you please” ??? Isn’t that the truth?!
I mean, loving God is all that matters! Who doesn’t try as hard as they can to please, and honor the One we love the most? And shoot, we even need God’s help to do that!
No leader, no caregroup, no event, no person or anything should ever try or succeed in coming between me and my Jesus. And it took me a long time to even see how I had let it happen, not to mention seeing how much I needed Him back on His throne and needed him to help me jump out of the pot (as in the frog in the pot).
Rough and gruff? I’ve always thought of you as a great big, tender hearted teddy bear. I bet your wife would back me on this one.
Both of you are so very encouraging. After a couple of decades of being told things by my ex, things that I now recognize as his tools of manipulation (things like, ‘You make really bad first impressions’) and things by my beloved church (again, things that fit into their own agenda instead of into truth) I am having to learn to re-see myself through (hopefully) the eyes of truth. So thank you. I think we could all use people who show us the truth in a kind, loving way.
PD, me and my mother and the whole fam need your prayers, this a.m. We lost my aunt very early this morning…while her passing his a blessing in many ways (the pain of the mortal coil is gone), it’s still incredibly adverse on my mother, who was close to her sister.
oh PK, & PD – thanks be to God our Father that He is so near and tender with the broken hearted and grieving. Praying for your family that you can celebrate life, yet grieve with freedom and love.
PK and Family,
I’m so sorry. It is so hard for those who have to stay behind when a loved one get’s to go home early, even when we are able to see it rightly.
“The term is over: the holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning.”
And as He spoke, He no longer looked to them like a lion; but the things that began to happen after that were so great and beautiful that I cannot write them. And for us this is the end of all the stories, and we can most truly say that they all lived happily ever after. But for them it was only the beginning of the real story. All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and the title page: now at least they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before.” c.s. lewis
Praying! I lost my best friend, my Mom this year. It really is hard on those left behind. But it’s only for a time till we see them again. I like to think they are free from these earthly bodies and are without the pain endured here on earth.
PD and PK — Receive our warm condolences on her passing. She was such a dear lady and suffered so many years they can’t be counted. Please relay our love to all your family and especially your mom and your uncle.
Generally, the praise part off prayer and praise is directed Heavenward but I just want to thank God for PK and PD. They are doing a fantastic job of moderating this board and I am sure that entails more work than the rest of us know.
You are both gracious, intelligent, and discerning and I want to acknowledge and honor those things.
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It has been a long time since I ‘ve read anything on this site; I recall when I first found Refuge; Our Lord in his comapssion led me here to show me truth; the ugly truth about SGM. It was hard and painful; but I am free at last. Thank God Almighty I’m free at last. I am no longer “needin hope” for I have HOPE, in Jesus Christ my Lord. He loves me, adores me and calls me his own.
I formally left my SGM church this year. I am settled in a church and taking my time getting aquainted with people.
I feel a freedom in worship, in my devotional time, in prayer, in listening to the pastor on sunday mornings. I get up on Sunday mornings and look forward to going. A year ago I wouldn’t have thought that possible. All things are possible with God. For those who are new here or if you’re a frequent visitor…there is HOPE in abundance.
Thanks to this site…don’t ever stop being here…what you do is important, it helped me to find courage to leave and to move on. Yes, it is without relationships that were important to me; but I found something more, The Lord is my friend I shall not want; He has led me to this quiet place…” My hope and prayer is that all who enter here will find the Saviour who loves, the Friend who never leaves…look upward, he’s waiting to heal your hurts and give you HOPE.
God Bless.
I HAVE HOPE!
To my friend, and brother or sister in Jesus Christ, who was “needin Hope”:
God bless you!! I haven’t been on the Refuge in a while myself. But you and your JOY and your precious freedom in Christ have me rejoicing for you and with you.
Jesus knows where you need to take it one step at a time and HE is willing to lead you, and walk alongside you. He is faithful and True, and has brought you into the fields of green pastures, where His yolk is easy and His burden is light! Hallelujah, you have entered, once again, into the joy of your salvation! Isn’t it grand?!
God is good – all the time. And its wonderful to remember that and enjoy His Goodness and mercy, all our days!
YOU are such a blessing!! The sound of liberty in your ‘voice’ is so wonderful— we are ever so excited and thankful to see you walking forward, your hand securely enclosed in the One who rejoices over you!!
Thankyou, so much, for sharing your new-found joy and security in the love of Jesus
With much love to you, — Waters and Family
Dear Hope-filled,
Thanks for stopping by and letting us know how you are doing!! It is so encouraging to hear! I’m so happy to hear that you know what a FRIEND you have in JESUS!!
It was good to read the words of familiar bretheren and I rejoice in the Lord that you were refreshed! I am so excited to share all that the Lord is doing since my departure from SGM.
One of the most blessed things about the new church my family and I attend; while it promotes small groups there are several studies going on at the same time! It’s really cool…Imagine that…leadership not dictating and everyone having to study the same thing. How refreshing that was for us!!
Again, just another way in which we feel and are experiencing first hand FREEDOM! Oh what joy and relief!
Recently, I needed to miss being in small group because of a family situation where serving my family meant that I would miss my Friday night group; the response from the leaders of the group was…and I quote…”I understand completely” WOW! No lectures, no guilt trip, just compassion and love.
For those who may be shell shocked, hurting and feeling like you will never, ever find another place to worship, there are many wonderful churches out there. With caring and HUMBLE leaders. When I see our pastor enter the pulpit, I have to smile…I know I will hear the Word and be blessed, challenged and uplifted…that is worth searching for my brothers and sisters. It truly is…
Looking forward to Sunday service and thankful for the liberty and healing I have found in Christ Jesus!
In His Love I rest
I have HOPE
In the near future I will be meeting with family that still are involved with SG. There is a sense of foreboding even as I write this. One family member attends an SG church sporadically, around 10-12 times a year. Another family member (along with spouse and children) are deeply entrenched in SG. My departure from SG has coincided with great distance in relationships that once were close with this latter relative.
The SGer once pronounced (predicted? “prophesized”?) that I would return to a pastoral staff position in SG because that was where I had greatest fulfillment. Not bloody likely! I spent about 5-10 minutes in a terse, concise explanation of why I left SG, the pastoral abuse, staff malfeasance, “apostolic” biblical illiteracy and overall incompetence … and that was that. The family member chose (and choses) to believe the SG lie (and sacrifice a relationship of over 4 decades, one that I greatly cherished).
I am very sorry to hear of yet another loss of a relationship. SGM is a sect that brings division to the Body, not unity. It is so hard to loose a friendship that has lasted so long, especially within family. To quote a cliche, “I feel your pain.” Tweey hugs from a sympathetic Canary
Former, I have such a soft spot in my heart for you and your family, especially you and your wife. I’m so sorry for how your offering and your gift have been trampled on by a crappy, crummy system, and the people who inhabit it.
I pray that if you do find God’s pleasure in it, that you could someday be healed from the scars and wounds enough to minister and pastor <u>elsewhere</u> but as you say, not blood likely inside the sg walls! Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we’re free at last!
As for the family members who choose such bondage? Who can figure that one?!
The visit has come and gone. The adult SGMers treated me pretty much as expected. I was one of 2 or 3 dozen people at the gathering and recieived the prorated amount of attention, 2 or 3 sentences worth. This was vastly different from the fellowship and camaraderie we shared in the SG days. But at least it was not confrontationall.
A SG alpha male was asked to bless the meal which he interpreted as a call to “open in prayer”. The influence of CJ was maifest in the parrotted and hackneyed cliiches. I refused to close my eyes because it wasn’t prayer, it was preaching with your eyes closed. I caught one of the alpha’s young’uns with open eyes, repeatedly. I’m sure that later he bore testimony of how far I have slipped.
The after party was most interesting. The SGers had managed to irritate a good many of the revelers. First, the CJ-ites arrived waaaaay late, as in hours. This sin was compounded because they never confessed it. Next, one of the young’uns pompously and self-righteously took it upon his/herself to correct the converstations occurring among the true adults and elderly.He/she particularly nettled a woman who was 50+ years senior to the young’un. Oh well, out to the mouth of babes. Finally, some of the revelers sported body art (tattoos, piercings, and such). These outward manifestations were noted and declared aloud by the Sinfree SGers as sure signs of pagan damnation. “Why yes, we DO attend a Sovereign GRACE church … why do you ask?”
All told, I emerged unscathed and giddy that I was out of the shadow of Sov Gr Miseries.
They never said good bye, I never noticed they left,
Former SG Pastor
FSGP, part relief, part what the heck?! Sad to see SGMers still living out the same testimony to unbelievers that they always have. I absolutely cringe when I think of how many people outside of SGM that I offended while I was in SGM. ouch.
Me too, Stunned. I sure do repent of my own arrogance and insensitivity for those times.
FSGP, I’m glad you made it out unscathed. I hope your dear wife fared okay. I remember shortly after we were “counseled” to leave our PDI church with part of my family still very active and entrenched there, I too had to attend an important family gathering. The wound was so fresh, the distance from my loved ones so real, the cloud of confusion so thick, it was excruciating. But at the same time, the Lord gave me the assurance that we were not crazy, that something was definitely amiss within PDI, that we had been badly and unscripturally handled. He assured me that He would sort it out in my spirit in time (and He has!), but in the meantime He quite sweetly comforted me that day with the reminder that He understood my feelings of rejection, of feeling despised and even feared by my former church family, because He had been there Himself. He gave me a Scripture in Hebrews. “Let us go to Him, OUTSIDE the camp, bearing the disgrace He bore…” Never before had I felt so OUTSIDE the camp, so disgraced. I literally repeated that passage to myself dozens and dozens of times that day just to make it through. His sweet presence and assurance that I was still His despite loud but unspoken messages to the contrary accompanied me that day. That’s a very vivid memory even to this day, more than 20 years later.
Had opportunity years later to attend another important family event. That time I went with far greater understanding of what had happened to us (though this was still before the blogs were started) and far greater healing from the Lord. It was fantastic! The same atmosphere prevailed, the same judgment was available to be received, but I was FREE! It did not touch me! There in the midst of it, I was able to function completely normally, greet old acquaintences, and not care if they were judging or wondering about my spiritual status. That’s when I knew, I KNEW, I was healed. I was almost giddy with the joy of it! I worshipped God right then and there! Another memory I will never forget.
More years passed and now all of my family members are safely out of SGM, not without much pain and cost, but out nonetheless. I guess I say all that to say, there is an end to the pain, the grief, the disillusionment, … the spiritual attacks wrought because of SGM. Praying this for your famly and especially your dear wife.
Thank you for sharing that. I’m still deep in the midst of such pain with family members who are part of a “christian movement” just as wrong and hurtful as SGM. God knew I needed to hear your words. Thanks again, sweet sister.
FSGP,
I think of you and your wife often and pray for you…glad to hear you “emerged unscathed and giddy.”
Aw, Kindred. It blesses me greatly to know I said something to encourage you! Good to see you! I had been missing you for awhile over at Survivors. Glad to see you’re back at it. I will pray for your dear family. These things are so hard to bear when we have such a limited time on earth to enjoy one another. Redeem, Lord! Love you, sis.
For 2012 may we all rejoice that Christ Jesus lives in us — and that He came, to set the captives free— Even when His own have been taken captive by the posionous leaven He warned us about. The leaven, the law, and the law-driven Pharisees who ensnare Gods people. Lord, may many many of your people be set free from the leaven that is Sovereign Grace Ministries………..
Lyrics to the song “All HE says I am” by Cody Carnes:
He whispers in my ear— tells me that I’m fearless;
He shares a melody— tells me to repeat it
And it makes me whole — it reminds my soul–
I am all He says I am!
I am all He says I am… I am all He says I am
And He says I am His own.
I was blinded by scales upon my eyes,
He came like a light and burned up all the lies–
Oh, He set me free— He reminded me,
I am all He says I am
Chains are broken — Scales are on the floor;
Truth is spoken— I’m no orphan anymore, no orphan anymore
I am loved—- I am new again
And I am completely free — I’m no slave to sin!
And I’m a saint
I am Righteousness!
And I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
Oh, I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I am all….He says I am
I am all He says I am…
And He says I am His own
I know of pastors who have informed their care group leaders of this site and the uncensored site. I don’t know how they prefaced them but I do pray that God will use these two sited to reveal truth and bring repentance beginning with the leaders. I pray for courage and boldness for those who bring concerns to their leaders. For the leaders, I pray for humility and a softness to receive what they hear and that they sincerely care for those who bring their concerns. I pray that unity in the church will be achieved and that more people will be drawn closer to Jesus. May God receive all of the glory.
Beauty from Ashes,
Thank you for posting. Welcome!
Your prayer is our prayer as well.
Carole and I join with you in praying to this end.
Grace and Peace,
Jim
Hi Beauty from Ashes. I like your “name”!
Jim and Carole,
Is it okay to post personal prayer requests here, unrelated to PDI/SGM?
Gracie,
Absolutely!
That would actually be my preference, although this is a “no rules” section, so my preference should carry no weight here.
I said all that to say-yes! Please!
Jim
I am very thankful.
That’s all. I’ll pray for people with needs.
Okay, everyone. I have a prayer requests. My daughter, 22, is having some health issues that the doctor cannot get to the bottom of. She has had what they thought was a bleeding ulcer and all manner of digestion problems. After having done an endoscopy and a gall bladder ultrasound with the results being completely normal, the doctor is on a watch and see mode for now. Meanwhile, my daughter has terrible, unexplained pain on a fairly regular basis. We need wisdom from God on what to do next.
I can’t tell you what it means to me to be able to put this request out there to folks I know will pray. Thank you so much.
Dear, Sweet Gracie!
Jim and I are praying here!
Keep us posted, okay?
Love you,
Carole
I pray the doctor will have good discernment and is able to give your daughter an accurate diagnosis quickly.
I also pray she is relieved of her pain, well, to the extent she can and still get a good diagnosis.
I pray for you, that you would have peace in this situation.
Gracie,
I’m lifting your daughter up!
Thank you all so much.
Hey all!
Gracie,
That’s good news!
praying for your daughter Gracie –
so, what do we think is actually told to their cgl and pastors about these sites? I am thinking it is only a manner of time before my former pastor becomes aware of my blog where I posted all his emails to me! Are we labeled as “under discipline?, slanderous, etc.
Concerned-seems like a lot to me, being less than 3 weeks old.
From Monday to Friday at midnight-11648 page views and 3090 unique visitors.
Concerned,
Tylee,
Click on her name (Concerned) at the top of her comment…
I tried to e-mail you Carole, and I wasn’t sure if you were getting my off-line attemps.
Thank you for the further instruction.
Could you guys please pray for my friend “Sally” who is still in the SGM church I recently left? I went over to her house tonight and we had a four hour talk about the Lord, our walks, SGM, the church, all kinds of stuff. It was VERY obiovus the Lord has been busy with her heart – which is a praise – but she said her husband (who is a considering PC next year) made a comment recently about her “not becoming anti-Sovereign Grace” – she said she wasn’t sure why he said this.
I asked if anyone had talked to her about our friendship, because when
You got it, Concerned!
A praise report!! Some time ago I asked you guys for prayer for my friends who are still in the SGM church I left – my close friend’s husband was planning to go to Pastor’s College next year…he went to the Worship Conference at the “Mother Church” this past weekend. While he was gone I spent some time with my friend, “Sally” and we prayed that this weekend the Lord would give her husband direction – to close the door to SGM PC (if that was His will), and to give some sort of direction for his calling.
I’ve been very concerned for this young man and his wife…I love them dearly..and oculd see the legalism building and them falling deeper into bondage. well, she told me today that he came back from the conference saying he doesn’t think he is supposed to be a Sovereign Grace pastor, but he still feels called to pastor, but won’t be going to PC next year.
PRAISE GOD!!!! Thanks for your prayers! Please continue to remember them and ask the Lord to reveal, redeem, and restore “the years the locusts have taken” since being at SGM. They are not planning to leave the church that I know of, although the wife is praying for the Lord’s leading whatever that may be. Seems He is opening her eyes and she is hungering for Him, which is causing her to think of “other things” non-SGM. But they have a long hard battle ahead of them..
To God be the Glory..great things He has done!!
concerned,
From your comment a bit above about pastors finding out about these blogs…
My pastors are already aware of them and have seen them.
I’m curious, what are your first thoughts in them knowing and seeing what is written here? You said something about them seeing the emails you’d posted… does that scare you? Does that make you feel bad for posting them? Or maybe the opposite?
Pennylane, what is the response from the pastor’s when they hear of the blogs? My guess would be similar to the Wizard of Oz when he was exposed: “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!”
It used to put me in a panic when I thought about what my pastors would think, or what they may be saying about me. But I pressed on, posting the emails. If you read my blog you’ll see a real fear manifest at one point when my pastor emailed me out of the blue several weeks after I left. I thought I was going to die of fear! The Lord used it to show me I still had fear of man, and needed to cultivate a fear of HIM. When we fear GOd, what can man do to us?
I am of course not saying I would do anything not prompted by love for others. I don’t have an agenda for vengeance or exposing. The Lord does that. But thorugh my words I pray others will be set free. All I can do is speak the truth, give my testimony, and pray the Lord works.
I don’t feel bad or fearful anymore for posting anything. It is the truth. And the truth sets us free.
It’s funny-I can only assume, and Penny can help us out here, that the pastors are telling the sheep to ignore the blogs to remain unsullied.
The funny part is, the pastors are reading.
I’d love to post the google search terms that people are using to see if we’re talking about them.
…go for it, Jim.
I think everyone in SGM should take a test. A test to see if you are in bondage. If, after taking the test you find you are, then get free! (and some may be able to do this and not leave their churches, who knows) But at least have the courage to take the test, what do you have to lose except the chains that bind you? At least you’ll now one way or another if you are or not.
So to you guys who are still in an SGM church: The test would be to abstain from any and all Sovereign Grace Ministries activities for one month. No care group, no Sunday meetings, no fellowship with others from the SGM church. No reading blogs from SGM people. Fast from all things Sovereign Grace for one month. Be willing to sacrifice what they call ”dearest place on earth” for the real dearest place on earth: being in the presence of your Father. No books from other authors, just read the Word of God. No sovereign grace pastor’s sermons, or SGM music. Just the Lord and you. Only fellowship with people who don’t go to your church. Just try it and see what happens.
If you find yourself in a panic because you are afraid you will fall away, or are worried what others would think of you if you did these things, then that is your first sign you are in bondage. No need to go further. In other words, if you aren’t willing to fast from all things SGM then ask yourself why? My guess is you’ll find you are in bondage from the start and that is why you are unwilling.
Hey everyone,
My brother (Jordan) is going under the knife this afternoon: a few months ago the tendon on his right bicep detached from… well… wherever it connects around his shoulder. He’s since been dealing with a lot of pain as doctors tried to tell him it was no big deal, but he got an MRI a few days ago and now they’re performing surgery this afternoon.
This has been quite an ordeal for him, especially dealing with “authorities” who wouldn’t listen to his insistence that this was a serious problem (anyone here able to relate to that?).
So, I just want to ask y’all to please pray that the surgery will go smoothly and that his recovery will be quick and complete.
Praying Travis! Wow, that must be so painful, I sure pray that God will use the doctors to heal him totally!
I’ll be praying too, Travis.
Travis-thanks for sharing, and thank you to those who have committed to pray.
Count me in.
Since I no longer have categories, I’ll make this thread a top of page link this weekend.
I’d love to see more of this!
Concerned,
Good idea and even better than “No SGM” for a month, I’d recommend periodically going to a different church for a month – something different from what I am accustomed to. I think it would be useful exercise for any believer. There are several benefits:
1) Get to see how God works in different setting and by various means
2) I am often tempted to become attached to certain ideas, preferences, and unwritten rules over time – it’s human nature. Having my sacred cows slaughtered on a regular basis encourages humility, wisdom, and reliance on God
3) Make new friends
4) Hear a different perspective on the same topics you’ve been hearing about for years
5) Build confidence in your relationship with God as you see Him work in your life in any context
One of the issues at SGM that became increasingly problematic for me was the isolation from most of the body of Christ. SGM will not work with anyone they do not agree with within a very narrow set of criteria. When I got involved in missions, I encountered a completely different culture of collaboration and cooperation. Also, I’ve switched churches twice in 25 years, and I’m contemplating a third move now. Each time I have had to relearn how to do ministry and how to view church polity.
I’m not recommending becoming butterflies, going here and there without committed friendships and working relationships, just that I need to get out more often, and that it is very health to do so.
Which brings me to pastoral care. SGM has always justified its small world as “protecting the sheep”, but who are they protecting? Paul said to the Corinthians, “You have many guardians but few fathers.” As a father, I want my son to be confident in any situation, so I intentionally expose him different a and sometimes challenging experiences. I’m always there to spot him if he falls, but I love it when he conquers a new challenge and beams, “Wow, that was cool Dad!”
I’m not just bashing SGM, but asking wider question. Do we need to re-thing the nature of pastoral care? As leaders, are we tempted to simply guard people like hired nannies and make sure they behave, or are we fathering spiritual children? I know I have been guilty of the former, but would prefer to do the later.
Finally, I’ve been listening to Bible on CD, and I’m in Corinthians right now. Even though Paul gave quite a few specific command and rebukes, the whole tone of his discourse is a loving and affectionate appeal, knowing the risk that they could choose to respond or not respond. Fortunately they did for the most part. I’ve not found much of the father type of apostleship in US churches. Does anyone get what I am saying?
Jim, if you would rather move this repose to “The fruit of good pastoring, that would be ok. Sorry if I got off topic.
Off topic is never a problem here, Greg.
If you want to repost in another thread, I’ll delete this one, if you like.
Any news from Travis on how his brother is doing?
Oh yeah, good point: an updated might be appreciated.
My brother’s surgery was postponed from Thursday to (last) Friday, and afterward the doctor told my sister-in-law (bro was still conked out) that it went better than he had anticipated! Little brother called me on their way back home to say thanks for the prayers, and while he’s looking at a 6-week recovery period, he’s already back at work.
So there’s my praise for the week! (See, it was all intentional…)
Thanks Travis!
How cool is that?
That’s really good news, Travis. Thank the Lord!
Hi Folks:
I am really under it right now, and simply need the joy of the Lord. Protracted health issues aside, after reading the posts regarding a former SGM pastor of mine, I feel my hand is being forced to reveal my identity. I keep vascillating whether or not to reveal it, as sharing even mundane details of my story will definitely reveal it to some here, and I fear the revelation will have rippling effect in the SGM church I now attend.
I may be blowing all of this out of proportion, but as you can see, FEAR has become a part of my vocabulary in new way… I’m just not able to endure all of this, and need your prayers. The ice is breaking.
…pk
PK-you are in our prayers.
Again, if you ever want to talk (I keep all offline conversations completely private) send me a note with your number and the best time to call.
sgmrefuge@gmail.com
Oh PK, I’ll pray for you!
{{{{{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}}}}}}} <——hugs
PK-SGM reads this blog. Consider carefully.
PK,
I have been reading your posts both here and on the survivors blog. From my own experience in PDI, I remember the fear you are feeling quite well. Be assured we are praying for you.
PK,
May God fill you with His peace and make clear His path… may He remove the fear from your mind and heart.
Father, I ask that You accomplish these things, that You would speak to PK and guide and direct him in this matter. May Your voice be the One Voice that overrides all others. Comfort PK, grant him Your peace and Your unrelenting joy… shower him with Your presence, lead him in Your way. In the precious Name of Your Son, Amen.
Thank you all for your prayers. I will consider carefully, Jim, and keep my trap shut for now. I’m thinking the wisest course of action is to allow the Holy Spirit governance of my emotions, as He is the great Comforter and is wisest of all.
It is my hope that if we at SGM indeed read these blogs, that there is a sobering up taking place right now rather than a Rat Squad behavior of getting ready to bust people.
I used to be proud of “Reformed in Essence with Charismatic Distinctives,” but this has left way too many loopholes to wiggle around both branches of theology.
Again, I earnestly believe the two can be reconciled, but the attempt to do so at SGM has been vague, to say the least… almost as if there is a deliberate plodding so that an “anything goes” style of leadership has become cancerous and is now eating itself from the outside-in; an implosion, if you will. No wonder conspiracy theories are constantly flying! We haven’t developed a detailed confessional, and we treat our theology like a salad bar. Who knows what’s on the plate today? What fad will start now? Who will get shifted to make room for Current Superstar or Current Relative in the leadership position? I fear for my own church in wake after wake of this sloppy mess! This is like discovering a body in shallow grave behind someone’s barn, only for the cops to show up and find thousands of graves covering the entire acreage.
I am so heavy in heart and so filled with repulsion, I can’t breathe. I was frantically trying to pull out roots of bitterness, some I didn’t even know were there. This morning I gave up and pled with God for Him and Him alone to do the root pulling, because running on my own strength in trying to comprehend all of this is simply madness.
Dear God, let me not charge You in any of this…
Dear Jesus, intervene and save us. Lord, protect my marriage in all of this. Holy Spirit, come!
…pk
PK-I was where you’re at 3 years ago.
I was bitter for around 18 months-and one day, it was gone!
Our God is rich in mercy! You have and will receive more grace.
I promise.
PK, peace will come in fits and starts, but it will come. It just won’t come at your bidding. Please remember God isn’t surprised by what you’re discovering, and wishes to cover you with his wings of protection. When I was coming out of SGM, I learned more than ever before, to run into Christ like a fortress and let him be identity and my protection. May you experience this same revelation and its peaceful result.
You wrote “…we treat our theology like a salad bar. Who knows what’s on the plate today? ” This has been going on since the beginning of PDI/SGM. If you had proposed full-bore Reformed theology in 1983, you would’ve been kicked out, just as quickly as someone today who might ask why the gospel isn’t preached “with signs and wonders following.”
Mahaney used to say, “Constant change is here to stay.” His reason for that was to get everyone used to continuing changes in leadership, home-group arrangements, etc. The real meaning went far deeper, as we now understand: everything was in a state of flux, with the exception of leadership being in 100% control, and able to change direction without accountability.
Beloved:
I was reviewing all of these prayers and was very overwhelmed with gratitude all over again.
Thanks again, everyone for your prayers, and please know I am still praying for you.
I have a job offer (there will be a few months before it starts) that seems fairly ideal for accomodating my health issues, so I am praising God this morning. He’s still worthy of my praise in what I percieve as valleys, but this morning is special as a crack of dawn seems to be breaking through (not so much financially as it is spiritually).
I still have a heavy heart for my church and SGM in general, as I pray for reform, even if it comes in sputtering at different levels.
God used the situation with my former pastor’s (forced) resignation/reassignment/whatever to increase my reliance on Him, and not fall victim to the aftershocks of cults of personality I so vehemently preach against on this blog. God is faithful!
I pray this day is a blessing for everyone here…
…pk
pk,
yayyyyyyyyyyy about the job offer!!!
That is wonderful news, PK!
I wanted to offer a praise report as well. Many of you read earlier about my daughter with digestive issues. She has been through tests and prescriptions with no help. Over the last few weeks, she has been using some over the counter medicines that her doctor recommended, plus some goodies from the health food store. For the first time in quite a while, she is eating and processing food normally. She still has some stomach sensitivities, but there is distinct improvement.
Thank the Lord!
And thank you for your prayers!
Gracie,
Thanks for the update!
God is good!
Hey Everyone,
I haven’t posted in a while. Some of the drive-by guys were just a bit too much for me, so I’ve been taking a break.
If you think of it, please say a little prayer for me. I’ve been out of SG for a while, but I’m really dealing with some overwhelming feelings of confusion and fear. I know it was the right thing to do (leaving), but it’s still so hard when most of my friends and family are still there.
Thanks so much =)
love,
Summer
Hi Summer, good to see you again!!
I just prayed for you – I know how very hard it is to leave. Those conflicting feelings are hard to deal with sometimes! It does get better though after awhile.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Hey Summer,
I was actually thinking about you today, wondering where you have been. I think it is pretty normal for these emotions to come in waves. I’ll be praying for you!
Summer,
Ditto on what Gracie said! You’ll get through it, especially if you grab hold of Jesus and keep focused on Him. We’re here for you!
Sweet Summer… (that should be the name of a song!)
Praying for you here!
Gracie! I was told by a VERY reliable source that today is a special day!
Happy Birthday, Dear Gracie!!!
May God continue to pour His amazing grace into your life in the coming year(s)!
I love you! (and owe you an email… life is kinda crazy right now, and I’ve been hit and miss around The Refuge… mostly miss… but I can’t wait to get back to having our “coffee chats”!)
Aw, thanks Carole. I am intrigued as to your source. If it is who I think, I’m THRILLED to hear she is in contact with you!
Love you, my friend.
Oh, I see. I just went over to the survivors blog and discovered my sister’s message! Isn’t she sweet? (Even if she outed me on my birthday – at least she didn’t say how old!)
Thank you, ladies, for all of your sweet encouragement and prayers =) Some of those “waves” are really like tsunamis from time to time….
And Happy Birthday, Gracie! Hope you are having a wonderful celebration =)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, GRACIE!
Happy Birthday from me, too, Gracie!
Thanks everyone for your prayers regarding my health!
I have a new prayer request/praise report:
Praise report: I joined a bible study within the church.
Prayer for: It ain’t authorized, but nobody has made a stink yet.
It’s an open forum, not led by anyone per se… and it’s good.
Thanks all,
…pk
Hello Beloved:
I have been sidelined by recent illness and personal matters (a perfect storm of sorts)… apologies for the MIA status (Jim I have emailed you with the details).
I covet everyone’s prayers and promise to post later today or tomorrow.
…pk
PK,
You are in my thoughts, today. During the difficult times, we get to see the Lord as our Comforter. It is precious to know Him like that. I hope you sense His presence in a special way this week.
Praying for you, PK. I hope things turn around soon.
PT-
Been praying for you-figured your absence was due to illness or otherwise.
Peace-MM
PK,
Sorry for your current trials. Praying as well.
Hello all,
I would really appreciate your prayers right now as I feel as if I’m fighting a battle, with myself, with God and with fellow Christians around me. My eyes are really being opened to the problems caused by the church I’ve grown up in and how it has affected me and others around me in negative ways and it’s caused turmoil and angst in my soul as I wrestle every day with what to do and when to act. I’ve silently started looking for other churches in the area, but haven’t gotten the chance to visit one yet. What makes this all the more hard is God seems so far away during this time, I find myself asking, is this really the best time to leave my church and find another one? But then I argue with myself that maybe a different church, a more grace-filled church would allow me to get closer to God. My Christian friends have been little help as they are all distracted with their own lives, leaving me feeling more alone than ever. I’m really at a loss of what to do other than pray, which doesn’t seem like its helping much either.
dear saints, please intercede for me before our Father for peace and discernment, and more importantly for me to feel his presence beside me, holding my hand and guiding me.
Eponine, <<<<<<<<HUGS>>>>>>>>> Go in peace, my sister.
Eponine-
I will pray that God shows you the way thru this time of hurt and decision. May God’s love guide and protect you.
peace-mm
Dear Eponine,
I understand how you feel, many of us here do, for we remember those feelings well from our own experiences. I will pray for you too, my dear little sister.
Eponine,
You are in my prayers! I definately understand how you are feeling as I have just left my church. I have spent my whole life there (I am 20 years old) and have never know anything else. I can relate to those questons you have, as I’ve been considering that for the past year, and even now still wonder if I made the right choice. God has been good though and provided me with friends who I’ve been able to talk to and walk this out with. If you ever want to talk please feel free to email me at notw.forsaken@gmail.com
Beth
epi-
you wrote: But then I argue with myself that maybe a different church, a more grace-filled church would allow me to get closer to God.
Can I just encourage you, beloved, that all you need to get closer to God you already have? It is your relationship to Him through the finished work of Christ - HE is our HIgh Priest – we need no one else to speak for us, to teach us, intercede for us, or be our confessor, this is not the role of the Church, it is the role of Christ that the church has usurped.
Psalm 16 comes to mind, one verse in particular verse 11: “You will make known to me the path of life;In Your presence is fullness of joy; In Your right hand there are pleasures forever.”
SGM (and many other churches and denominations) make you think you can’t be close to God without them, or you can’t have real joy apart from the Body – but both are a lie. Read God’s Word, and find rest, peace, joy, passion, purpose, satisfaction, accountability, and guidance into all truth in the Person of Jesus Christ.
He won’t let you down. Just look to Him! I’m praying for you – Juli
E,
You have my prayers as well. I pray you make this transition into a grace-based walk.
And has anyone heard from PK lately, I’m remembering to pray for him as well.
I was out of the loop here for a while, apparently when PK went MIA..can someone tell me why he isn’t around anymore? Is he sick? Did the SGM leadership figure out who he was and approach him? What’s going on with him?
Thank you all for your prayers and support during this confusing time. I’m glad to know prayers are being lifted up to the Father from his people.
Thanks!
Juli, thanks for the reminder that all I really need is God. This can be so hard to remember, especially when God seems so far away. I tend to tell myself that I must be doing something wrong to make him not want to be near, or that the teaching at church is too dry or that i need to make a list of things to do to get closer to him. But that is legalistic. Our God isn’t a God of rules and steps to follow, he is a God who loves us unconditionally.
I’m so grateful for a few friends who have grown up in the same church and still understand what I’m talking about! Stuck, thanks for the invitation to talk to you… I may take you up on that.
PK,
I hope you are doing alright, we miss you around here!
PK has some health issues (the details of which I do not completely know,)
I know he is struggling.
I miss him and his contribution to this discussion. I find his writing to be challenging and helpful. I hope he gets strong and healthy enough to return to this forum.
Could you guys please pray about an “unspoken” request? I can’t give details just yet, but please pray that the Lord would reveal the hearts of the leadership at my former SGM church to the people there. There are many from my former church that read my blog, and likely this one and survivors as well, but they aren’t talking about it to anyone that I know of, including me..but they are reading. Please pray that the Lord would not allow those who desire to seek Him more to be trapped, deceived, or manipulated by leadership right now. Because everything in me says that there is an increasing spirit of control there, and my brothers and sisters are in grave danger. Please pray the Lord would work, and be gracious to them. I don’t mean to sound “charismatic” with my terminology, but I am being honest when I say I discern a spirit at work that mocks the Spirit of God, and is working secretly setting snares for the people..and it makes me want to cry.
I’ll pray, Juli.
thanks Gracie. I spent a good time in prayer today with the Lord..He calmed my fears. Things will play out here as He wills – I trust Him, even if it is difficult to watch others go through..but you can’t rescue people or make them see what you do – you only end up angry or fearful, like I was..so I am just committing them to prayer and keeping quiet
Hey all I was wondering if you could be praying for my former church? With everything that has gone on over the last two weeks I felt God asking me to step out and I did. God has already done much and I am anticipating that He will continue to do more. Anyway I think something is going to happen tomorrow so if you could just pray that God will continue to be moving among His sheep it would be appreciated.
Juli I will be praying!
You bet.
I’ll pray too, Notw
Thanks Gracie and DB! I know God’s in control and that He hasn’t given me a spirit of fear (I am not afraid of man and He’s carried me through) but I am still slightly anxious because I have heard rumor of what is going to be talked about. Apparently they are going to talk about the letter I sent.
Juli said, “..but you can’t rescue people or make them see what you do – you only end up angry or fearful, like I was..so I am just committing them to prayer and keeping quiet”
Juli, I have been so upset, so many times in my life by wishing, wishing o so hard, that people could see what I think is so obvious, that they could have the joy and relationship with Jesus. If I could, I’d like to share a little story about this. When I was about 5 or 6, I found out that this one little boy in my class (the biggest kid in the class, actually), didn’t believe God existed let alone know that he was loved by this amazing god. I was shaken. How could he make it through his day, his life, without knowing God was there to walk beside him and love him. I spoke with my mom about, ssssooooo upset. I didn’t know what to do. I had tried to speak to the boy, but he couldn’t see what i was telling him. I was crying to my mom. I was confused. How could ___________ not know what seemed so obvious, the most vital thing on earth? That he was LOVED by God himself! I was begging my mom, or God, or someone to help me understand. And my mom said this to me. “People can not see, until God gives them the eyes to see. They just can’t.” It was partly vexxing and partly comforting. I couldn’t make ____________ see that God loved him. I couldn’t convince him. And i couldn’t expect him to see. It was God who gave sight to the blind man. And it was God who would give this boys eyes to see that God loved him. All I could do was be God’s instrument, but no matter how hard someone tried to see, no matter how hard I tried to convince them, it was GOD who gave sight as He saw fit. I think I wore myself out that day until I was finally able to give it to God, knowing that He could carry that burden better than I. To this day, remembering that sometimes gives me comfort. It sometimes vexes me. I still cry, “Why God? Why can’t you just show them/me/us/everyone…?!” But finally, I always remember that they can’t see until He gives them sight to see. And it makes me release the burden to Him, a little bit more easily.
notw. wow, they’ll be discussing your letter. how scary/exciting/wonderful/stomach knotting! I pray His words shine through whatever you wrote. I pray His spirit says what He wants them to hear. And I pray He gives them eyes to see Him and Him alone through it all. (Like when the FBI wants to figure out what a fake dollar bill is, they don’t study all the fakes. They study the original. That way when something is not right, they can spot it. I pray we all become like that. Know HIM so well, so intimately, that anything that is not Him glares like a … it’s late, glares like whatever something that glares really well glares. Please let us know how it goes if you find out.
Peace,
Stunned
Stunned,
Amen! That is how I have been praying all day. I will let you know if I hear anything.
Notw, are they having a family meeting or what?
“Know HIM so well, so intimately, that anything that is not Him glares like a … it’s late, glares like whatever something that glares really well glares.”
Stunned, you’re a trip, rofl!!!!!
yeah, ellie, i’m a literary genius. (Oh, if only you could see me roll my eyes at myself. one more writing class coming up on thursday. please pray for me. for some odd reason the academics don’t quite….ahhh, appreciate my style.)
notw, I will pray as well – I guess I am out of the loop didn’t know about a letter you sent. Where did you explain all this?
Well, days of revelation are close ahead for my former SGM church as well – some important ”events” also coming up soon – things are popping, that’s for sure.
I’m soo glad I am gone…but my heart continues to break for those deceived and in the spiritual trap still…
Ellie, they were planning on speaking about this at the cg I used to attend. Apparently they switched plans as to what they are talking about but I am sure that they will get around to it soon. I heard that the pastor who was going to speak got sick.
Juli, this was my first post mentioning anything about the letter. I sent it last week and have since had many conversations. I was vague in what I wrote and basically mentioned the fact that something was going down in SGM. I felt that as a friend (even though God will be the one to open their eyes) I had a responsibility to at least warn them. I think I scared the pastors because they never knew me to be one to speak out.
notw, I have a smile across my face, reading what you wrote. I almost feel sorry for these guys. (almost.)
NOtw, wow, God has given you boldness. How long since you left your SGM church?
Do you still talk to friends who are in SGM? Are you or have you been shunned?
The last service I went to was the Christmas eve one so like a month I guess.
Yes, I still (or at least did before this e-mail) talked to many of my friends but I am not expecting much interaction now. Relations were good because at that point they saw me as doing the “right thing” in how I left compared to how my parents left. I am guessing that the shunning will start now but am ok with that…I already weigh the cost of my e-mail. I’ll have to see how the next couple of weeks go but I believe a few people may still keep in touch.
so your parents left before you did? Was there any talk to you about them being deceived or in sin or something?
Well, from my own experience, I left peacefully and quietly, and I was still shunned, told I was deceived, and I did “everything right”. Sometimes the system is so flawed that your actions have no impact on such things. So I started a blog – figured, “what have I got to lose?”
So now people shun me “publicly” (as opposed to a private shunning if that makes sense) and feel justified because of my blog. Thing is, they shunned me BEFORE the blog, but seem to forget that detail.
They think it is OK for them to treat me the way they do because now, because of my blog,I am in sin.
Oh well. Don’t want friends like that anyway, more loyal to the church than Christ. I want friends sold out to Jesus, not enough time really for me to fart around with lukewarm believers…double-minded disciples…whatever you want to call them, shunning is wrong. ANd I hope you don’t experience it! But I have a feeling you will..
Yeah my parents left in October. They didn’t specifically say anything like they are in sin, but basically they let me know, that I was honoring God in how I spoke to the pastors about my issues first. My father sent an e-mail sharing why they left and that got them all upset.
I feel that same way when it comes to the what have I got to lose. God’s taken me through a lot, and much of the last two years, I have been alone in the sense of not really having friends. This isn’t a new thing and I considered what it would be like to lose the relationships that I do care about (that are real) and still feet it was worth it. If this is the worst persecution I will face then it is a very small price to pay.
Hi Juli
I’m NOTW’s mom. When we left it came as a shock to everyone. My husband basically was frustrated with the patronizing counsel given him when he would approach the pastors. So he nailed his thesis to the email door. We had been warned about the “meetings” that would insue so he refused to meet with them. My daughter,being 20 and a member, was given our blessing to “go for it” so to speak. I am easily intimitated by the pastors and would NEVER have been able to do what she’s done. At 58, my brain just doesn’t think as fast to be able to withstand the onslaught of doublespeak. So the pastors feel we were wrong in how we left and my daughter did it the “biblical” way.
the biblical way? i guess i missed that chapter and verse in sunday school. which book can one find it in, pray tell?
Must be in Grudem’s redone Systematic Theology that only SGM uses.
While I’ve admired your daughter for the brief time I’ve “met” her here, I don’t get why your style of leaving violated the Bible.
And if we’re going to talk about Biblical separations, I sure don’t regard Covenant Fullofit’s methodology of dismembering my family and me as anything even close enough to cast a shadow upon Biblical.
DB–I love your use of ‘dismemberment.’ LOL.
SGM lurkers: question for you.
Do you understand that your membership is in the CHURCH, not SGM. You are free to leave your SGM body anytime, and come worship with any other gathering of the CHURCH–you have no allegiance to your particular church.
There is no reason to have any fear to leave your particular gathering of the CHURCH. If you have fear, it is from the ENEMY, not from the Holy Spirit.
Dwell on that idea, please, and try to refute it from Scripture. God is not the author of fear.
Stop being such weenies. Man up.
RT,
When they see the word church in Scripture, they think >local church>my SGC
Don’t forget what Brent said here referring to Crossway: “Christ died in order that there would be a church right here and right now.”
That’s REALLY limited atonement.
Jim – limited atonement! lol
I wrote an “Ode to Sovereign Grace” some months back, I think I will share it again here, cause you reminded me of it with the implications SGM makes that they are the “elect of the elect” if there was such a thing!
This is an ode to sovereign grace
forgive me as I hide my face
from all the abuse contained therein
and press on, the prize to win.
You see, this group is quite content
with the apostles they have sent
to oversee the struggling flock
battered sheep, so the boat won’t rock
Let me explain what you will hear
if you happen to visit a church that is near:
“your heart is wicked, you’re totally depraved”
it makes one wonder how can we be saved?
Never forget you’re chosen and elect
never mind your life is a spiritual wreck
You see God’s sovereign, don’t you know?
No need to worry as your children grow.
Because you’re saved, they probably are too,
so it doesn’t really matter what you do.
But you better homeschool, and have control
this shows their names are on the Roll.
Ladies, always modest you must be
dressed demure and practically.
But with your husband when no one’s looking,
better dress like you’re going hookin’.
Praise your leaders, often and well
if you hear gossip, always tell!
Buy their books, no matter the cost
don’t spend your money to reach the lost!
As for your music, it better be approved
or else you really won’t be moved.
Don’t mind if it’s all about sin that indwells
it’s to keep you humble, and “humble” sells.
You should attend all church functions and meetings
so you can share what you’ve been needing.
But once you ask, needs are only met
until your loyalties are set.
Then you must start to serve the others-
pastors first, then sisters and brothers.
Ladies make meals, men cut grass
if you complain, you’re out on your ______
We don’t like discernment, boldness or spunk
If you’ve got advice, we’ll think it’s junk.
You say you hear the voice of the Lord?
Have you’ve been playing with a Ouija board?
Because you’re too depraved to know if it’s true
better let us “speak some truth” into you.
Then your decisions will be pleasing and right
don’t mind if you’re Bible is out of sight.
You can’t know anyway, remember your heart?
You really need us to remind you of that part.
It’s wicked and sinful and you’re spiritually dead
apart from the grace that we’ve already said..
comes only to those who are chosen and elect,
and so many happen to be in our sect!
So just sit down here and settle right in..
Cause you need us as long as you’re still in your sin.
“Don’t forget what Brent said here referring to Crossway: “Christ died in order that there would be a church right here and right now.”
WHAT?!
No.
Huh?
uhn-ah
No.
How?
Wait.
No way.
Did he really?!?!
No.
(that was me being incredulous that a “minister of the gospel” can so dilute and distort the very word of God, especially the death of our saviour.)
Juli,
Your poem is rockin’. Someone should put music to it!
I wondered if others here would pray for me. I have recently found that I have a bad, herniated disc. I am unable to care for my family the way that I usually do. It is a little disheartening and I need patience! Thanks!
Love, love, love the poem, Juli!!
Canary, praying for you…
notw… Wow! That was a very courageous thing to do… I have no doubt that God will work through your obedience to Him and your love for His people!
Praying for you… keep us posted,okay?
Carole,
Sure will…my guess is that next tues is when it will go down.
Juli,
My favorite verse is this one:
Ladies, always modest you must be
dressed demure and practically.
But with your husband when no one’s looking,
better dress like you’re going hookin’.
Heh heh.
Notw,
You and Anxious have been on my heart. God bless you for your courage and boldness. We will be praying for your voice to be heard and for Truth to penetrate, especially on Tuesday.
Canary,
It’s good to hear from you, though I’m sorry to hear about your back. I’ll be sure to pray for you and your family. Wish we lived closer, I’d come over and help you.
Aw, thanks Gracie. I wish we lived closer so we could hang out together!
I found this site through SGM survivors. I shared some of my story there at comment #397 on the SGM Seeks thread.
Please pray for our family. Soon after we left our church last summer, our finances were drastically affected by the market woes. This was such a blow as we were still reeling from the former church situation.
Please pray for my husband’s current simultaneous efforts to build a business as he also searches for a job. Other stresses have also included my health.
I would truly appreciate prayers. This has been such a hard, hard season for us. I long for His comfort and to know the reality of His abiding and loving presence.
At some point perhaps I will share some more of my story here.
Thank you for this blog.
Dear INC,
You are definitely in our prayers, dear one!
May He give you much grace, much peace, much love and comfort, and may you and your husband hear His Voice and feel His guiding Hand as you walk through this difficult season.
Dear INC,
Welcome to the refuge! I hear the weariness you must be feeling in your post. To have the added stress of the economy and job loss on top of SGM decompression is a lot to deal with. And then health issues as well. You know, there have been several folks here who have had health issues arise or worsen as they faced the task of exiting SGM. I will pray for strength for the journey and for the Lord to lavish more of His love, peace and comfort on you and your dear family.
Carole,
I was writing as you were posting. Didn’t mean to copy part of your prayer!
Gracie… “where two or more are gathered”… just like-minded prayer for a dear sister!
Carole & Gracie,
Thank you so for your prayers. I have really needed a refuge right now.
I wanted to let you know that we have been sending out resumes.
My husband did talk with a recruiter this evening. The original position my husband applied for online was not a match because of some very specific parameters the company wanted. The recruiter emailed him last week and my husband sent back an email on Friday. Tonight the recruiter did call and tell my husband he liked what he saw in the resume and he will let him know if a better match comes up. It was encouraging to actually get a call rather than no response or just an email.
This afternoon my husband also told me that he really thinks that he is going to have to concentrate on just finding a job. This was sad for him as he’d so hoped the business would work out. However, the clarity will help with time and concentration.
Thanks for your continuing prayers.
Since this blog is a community, I’ll ignore my reticence and post a request here. As many of you know, part of God’s plan for me to get beyond SGM is to get back into mission work. I’ve had a long term desire to minister to Persian-speaking peoples (Iranians, Tajiks, Afgans, etc). The good news is that my church hired a missions pastor and a staff of three to organize missions work. We have a goal of sending several hundred people on short term missions trips this year. I applied to go to Iran for prayer walking. Unfortunately our church’s trip was cancelled due to lack of interest. Only one other person applied (doesn’t everyone want to go to Iran right now!?). The pastor forwarded my application to a para church org that organizes these trips and encouraged me to work with them. (Note for SGMers: I can mobilize and raise support even if my trip is not church sponsored.)
So, I may need to recruit a team or go with a team from another church. Please pray that God would open a door for effective ministry in Iran this summer. Thanks!
Greg,
Thank you for sharing here.
Carole and I are praying.
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Verse 10 would be my prayer
Mine as well, Stein.
How do we get there?
Dearest Stein,
You say that this is your prayer: 10 “Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
I would like to add that this most likely is the prayer and desire of most if not all on this blog. I would like to refer to Eph. 6:18, 19, 20 ”Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perserverance and supplication for all the saints – and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.”
When a counterfeit gospel is being preached as it has been within SGM churches resulting in the saints being abused and led astray among other things, then we are to speak boldly, proclaiming the true Gospel. We are to be perfectly joined together in the same mind and same judgment which is the mind and judgment of Jesus Christ, not the mind of men who are creating their own doctrines for their own purposes. Peace and unity at all costs and without truth are not peace and unity. We are to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.” (Eph. 5:11) and we are to speak boldly the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Greg,
Prayers for you. Farsi-speaking people are pretty challenging to reach for the Gospel.
Thanks DB,
Actually, some of the fastest growing churches in the Muslim world are in Iran, albeit underground. The more difficult task is to get American churches to do anything to help them.
Just say no to —Kool aid
So now that SGC Chesapeake has changed their stance doctrinally on a number of issues, are you still accusing them of preaching a counterfeit gospel. Be careful about making such a broad judgment. What part of their gospel do you think is counterfeit? Not all SGM churches are even preaching the exact same doctrine on every issue, as they may differ slightly.
This might be a good thread to stick to the topic. I think debate is healthy. I’m not sure it’s healthy on a prayer and praise thread.
Greg,
How exciting to get back to your mission work! Just this last week, a missionary from Indonesia spoke at church. In February, he is scheduled to share how to approach Muslims with the gospel. Apparently, they have seen quite a bit of good fruit from their ministry there. I’m excited to hear him!
Will be delighted to pray for your summer opportunity to line up. Blessings!
Jim, I’m sorry. You are definitely right. I started that debate but will take it to another thread.
No worries
Greg,
Put on your seat belt and brace yourself, you are going to have a really exciting ride! What a burden to have on your heart. I can’t imagine going to Iran under any conditions.
Let us know when you find a group with whom to associate so we can all pray for you while you’re abroad.
When I get discouraged about life these days, I have only to contrast it to last year and praise God for growth, for change, for help and healing.
Last year, when Jake and I fought on the way to school, he wound up at the Crisis Center, then at Children’s Hospital’s ER, and then at the Psych Institute of Washington.
This year, when Jake and I fought on the way to school, he walked home 10 miles–an unexcused absence but an effective coping strategy–one Jake uses often.
Last year, after leaving PIW, my sonshine was living with my mom–and everyone was angry.
This year, my sonshine lives at home–and while anger lingers, it does not live here.
Last year, I could only cry and rage in extreme duress. I felt helpless and hopeless.
This year, I set limits and enforce boundaries better — and I am learning to tell the truth about how I feel and what I think. Becca is a good role model for this.
Last year, we were fighting MCPS to reinstate Jake’s special education coding–to the point we had to retain our own psychologist for testing and a lawyer to make MCPS do the right thing.
This year, Jake has his accommodations, including a resource period and a quiet place to take exams.
Last year, I only knew I couldn’t stay at Covenant Life Church another minute.
This year, I have found a home at the Episcopal Church of the Ascension: the rector Randy looks me in the eye and talks to me as one thinking adult to another, the assistant rector Jessica has been so good to my kids, and while getting to know folks has been slow, it’s been real. I get to be a reader at the 5:00 service; Becca likes the Sunday School and was a shepherd in the pageant; and Jake comes to church with me occasionally and is trying the youth group.
Further, I have two safe places to work through my grief and anger with Sovereign Grace Ministries: www.sgmsurvivors.com and http://www.sgmrefuge.com These sites have provided a forum for so many to process some of the distinctives NOT mentioned in the official websites/marketing information: the way the churches “shoot the wounded” rather than tending to them, the corrosive effects of sin-sniffing and authoritarian control, and the blinding loyalty to brand and to leaders.
Acme,
What a beautiful testimony to the Lord. I re-read your story over at survivors. Remember at the end of it you posted this Scripture,
“And yet, I feel confident in this, I will see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.”
Another translation:
“What, What would have become of me had I not believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living?”
I have always loved that Psalm. It has gotten me through some rough spots. So glad to see He is bringing you through as well.
Acme, praise the Lord for HIs continued grace towards you – it encourages me as well, thank you for sharing..so glad you are in a better place in all areas of your life. Amazing when we seek first the Kingdom of God and His rightousness (not our own through our churches!) everything else is added unto us! I am beginning to experience this as well in my own life..
Acme!…
God is sooooo gracious, isn’t He? I’m rejoicing with you in His continued goodness to you and your kids!
acme, praise God, sister! awesome. thanks for sharing.
Canary,
I decided to update here. If you scroll up a few comments you’ll see my request for prayer regarding work for my husband. Well, many resumes, letters and calls later he is still looking. Last week he found that one company he’d been talking with since February has been bought by another and he will have to go back to square one with the new people. He continues to have several irons in the fire, and we are waiting to hear from a couple of places. This has been very discouraging and stressful. I struggle with fears about the future.
Another thing that has happened is that last Sunday afternoon my father died. He was an angry, abusive guy. He did express regret to me through my husband a couple of years ago, and I wrote a letter but my mother never expressed what he or they thought (even then his illness made her his main communicator). There was a lot of pain there from many years. I’ve been exhausted this week.
There are a couple of new positions I need to help my husband with as far as resumes and letters go, but it’s been hard to get going on them. He is worn down also with this.
All this has happened before I ever had a chance to really recover from my dreadful church experience. February was about the best month for me. I was hopeful I was learning to trust God and that He cared. The long slog since early March things has been hard. It’s been so tough for me to trust that God has not forgotten me. I know my relationship with my father compounded with the church situation has deeply affected me.
I have one friend who meets to pray with me, usually once a week. Another friend stops by as she can-usually once a week for her as well. (She drives around town with her work and this brings her close to our home). These two women have been lifelines for me. One of them goes to the church we have been attending. I am grateful they’re in my life.
The pastor has been faithful to pray for us and sincerely wants to know how we are doing when we see him. However, we have not felt welcomed to become a part of people’s lives (except for my one friend and her husband). Sometimes I wonder if people realize that we are brothers and sisters in Christ and that when your extended family does not believe, then you really need the body of Christ. It’s one reason why a site like Refuge fill a need that the local church neglects.
Sidney’s and doulos’ words on the Laodicean church were very helpful to me the other day. They really made sense of some things we’ve seen.
I also appreciate your prayers and those of Gracie’s. I am sure that the answer to those prayers is the reason that today was better for me.
Inc,
My sympathy for the loss you suffered. Even though your relationship with your father was a struggle, you must feel pain over his death. I am so sorry.
I know the experience of fearing for the future. We are all living through extraodinary times. Even the Jimmy Carter years weren’t this bad (except for the gas lines – those were horrible). The comfort here is that the whole nation is suffering, and it isn’t a failure on your part or your husband’s. It isn’t God punishing you for leaving SGM, or for struggling in your faith. Maybe I didn’t need to tell you that, but I wanted to make sure you understood.
I”m writing your name on an index card to put on my kitchen window. I will be praying for your husband to find work, until he does. It is good that you have two friends who can be a life line for you. That is the Lord’s caring for you.
I have always been struck by the fact that the Proverbs 31 woman could “smile at the future”. How did she do that, when the future is always so uncertain? She must have learned to live in the day, to stay in that one day, and to trust God for just 24 hours at a time.
I read an article once on what the writer called “future tripping”. God was already speaking to me about how I take on the future, instead of staying in the day. If I can find the link, and Jim approves, I’ll post it on the “moving on” thread.
Worry comes when we think about the past, or wonder about the future. In our worries, the Lord seems to disappear from the picture. That is when we know that our thoughts are not His thoughts. Stay in the day. You have grace for this one day. Tomorrow, you will have grace for that day. Yesterday is gone. You have grace for today.
Look for the Lord to speak in this day. He does this in many ways – through a verse, through a song or a friend, in nature…He speaks all the time, but we don’t always know to listen and look for Him.
You are in a very challenging place in your life. These few ideas are only a life preserver to get your head above water. God’s heart is so for you. He is so good and kind. We ex-SGMers didn’t always know that, and didn’t hear a lot about this in church teachings. Focusing on sin does not nourish the soul. Only Jesus can. Drink of His living water, in the day that you are in. I really want to hug you! I am so, so happy that you have two good friends who support you.
Thank you so much for being vulnerable enough to share on the Refuge. There are some reading who are too afraid to post because they hurt so much. Your own experience might help them, as you walk through it. Blessings, Inc. Many, many blessings to you and yours.
Also, if you want to take this private, Jim can send you my email address. I will be praying, I promise!
INC, I will be praying as well. He has not left you….I often think back on days past and realize that despite the trials, confusion, pain, etc…and only then did I realize that at no point did I ever truly think God had left me. My vision had changed, or I was in bondage, or I was acting in unbelief, or whatever….but never had He left me. It took years for me to be able to look back only in the sense of seeing God’s presence. When He feels far away today, and I wonder if He will show up tomorrow..I do think of yesterday. When He was there. And I have faith again for today, as Canary said.
blessings and peace to you sister…Juli
Canary & Juli,
Thank you for your loving words. Thank you for taking the thought and time to write. Your replies represent the ministry of Refuge, not only to me, but to others.
Canary, you said: Maybe I didn’t need to tell you that, but I wanted to make sure you understood. I do need to hear those words again, because even though I know them in my head, Satan whispers the opposite when I am at low ebb.
The pastor at the church we’ve attended in the context of talking about my fears also mentioned to me the Proverbs 31 woman who “smiles at the future”. That is so amazing to me. I’d also be interested in the article about “future tripping.”
Thank you both for your continuing prayers.
With love and gratitude to both of you, my sisters in Christ, INC.
INC–Proverbs 31 is so marvelous, my daughter and I were just talking about it today in the context of the ‘woman has to be under the covering of a man’ nonsense.
We are covered under the precious and invaluable Blood of Christ. We laugh at the future, like our Proverbs 31 sis.
Blessings to you, beloved child of the Father!
Inc…
In regards to the Prob.31 woman, there is so much we can glean from this passage in reference to our relationship with our Lord! SHE had her own business! SHE owned property! SHE bought and sold, (along with the men I am sure) AND with her own money! SHE commanded her household and ran it. SHE was recognized for her wisdom, etc. AND the most important declaration of the passage, at least for me; SHE FEARED G-D, not her husband.
What a wonderful heritage you/we, as women have. This is how HE sees us. We have value, worth, and much to offer HIM. HE trusts us to do well and bring glory to HIM..! HE gives us wisdom for all, not just other women. HE gives us knowledge and intelligence to support our household (it is okay to work outside of the home!). HE equips us with discernment to use/give this wisdom. HE causes us to be given respect. HE has a purpose for us on this earth and uses US to bring glory to HIM and joy to others.
Hang in there Inc. YOU are this woman! Now is the time to rest and let others stand in the gap and pray for you. Be patient, let HIM love you and bring you to that place that you can declare and believe all this for yourself…HE delights over you.. Will be praying.
MiMi
Reformed Teacher & MiMi,
Thank you for taking the time to write words of encouragement to me. I am so appreciative and need to be reminded again of the Lord’s love for me. Thank you also for your prayers.
Hey Mimi, That was very uplifting!
Inc, I put the link for the “future tripping” article over at “moving on”. Have a look. I can’t remember if I told you this…
Thanks, Canary!
Hi Everyone:
This is Esther of Chesapeake. I have a prayer request. My job
has now been reduced to 20 hours a week at the school where I work. I was struggling financially to make it even when my job was full-time . This
is truly a test of faith for me. Many of my dear friends have been helping along
the way financially this past 7 months since my husband left my children
and me. I have sent out between 40 and 50 resumes in the past few
weeks to find a new position. I felt that I must “cast my bread upon
the water so that after many days it would come back to me.” I haven’t
heard anything back from any of them so far. It is truly difficult to not
become discouraged. I spoke with a temp to hire agency today, and
she enlightened me on the fact that I am a 51 year old woman who is
returning to the work force after 20 years at home - home schooling my
children, and I am competing against a market of many who do the same
thing I can do and who are younger and have no break in their work
history. This was truly discouraging to hear. But, in my heart I know that
God is greater than statistics, but I still find myself struggling with doubts.
Will God really bless me “Esther” with an amazing job that will provide
for my children and me? It is hard to believe that sometimes. Today,
I found myself weeping before God and sharing my heart, my sadness,
and my doubts. I know He hears my cries for help. I believe the words
that the temp agency spoke to me are a reality, but God doesn’t want
me to believe that my life is controlled by these things. I believe God wants to be glorified in us and through us, so I am sharing this burden with each of you,
“The Body of Christ” asking for your prayers and for your faith to go up with
mine. Somehow that is so important here. He doesn’t want us to walk
alone. We are the ”Body” and we need each other. I also found myself
discouraged today because I made a bookkeeping error in my checking account. It sent it snowballing into a mess. I certainly didn’t need a mess. I went into the bank this afternoon to ask for their help and mercy. I have been banking with them for years. They know me by my first name. The bank employee made a remark that went in my heart like a knife. It was a belittling remark, and I left in tears. I called her when I got home and told her how badly she made me feel. She apologized. She
said she wasn’t thinking about my situation. She was so sorry. I told her she has been a long time friend and that is why I came to her. We were reconciled. We don’t know what the bank manager will decide as far as charges, but I do know that I obeyed the Lord by going in and ”asking” and I also obeyed by calling back and humbly sharing my heart with the worker. We have been restored. I guess I am sharing this to let you know that there are still spiritual battles going on in my life. I ask for your prayers. I am trusting the Lord that He will continue to lead me into green pastures where I will be able to find rest. So I totally understand the pain of my dear sister, “Inc.” We will stand together in faith, and watch God act on our behalf and for Him to be glorified in powerful ways in the days ahead. And by the
way, “It is Okay for us to cry and express our doubts to God.” He understands our
frame, and it won’t stop Him from acting on our behalf. Praise the Lord!!!!
Love, Esther (Sylvia)
Sylvia,
Carole and I are praying. Many others are as well-those who read and never post.
Esther/Sylvia,
You have been on my heart—I will be praying and warring and praying…and will call you. In the meantime with all of my strength I pray that all your needs will be continuously met, over and abundantly…that Gods covenant of care,provision and restoration will manifest upon your household….that the King of Glory, Jesus, the Lord Strong and Mighty will come in—and open the door of employment for you…Praying Gods Peace for you and your children…….much love
Sylvia,
I agree with what Waters so eloquently said. The Lord does not forget you or your children. Never, never, never! I’m sending up pleas to heaven that provision will be hurried to you.
Esther…………….
Here’s a quiz just for you………
The Lord is……..
A) our strong tower
B) our help in time of need
C) our protector
D) the grantor of the desires of our heart
E) all of the above
………..a check is in the mail to you from The Quizzler.
N.S.L.B.
For those of you who don’t know Esther/Sylvia’s story, here is a link to her story.
Esther/Sylvia,
I will be praying for you as well. May the Lord in His power and might deliver you. May we all see and rejoice in His provisions and salvation together! With love from your sister in Christ, INC
Esther, There is also a check in the mail from a Canary who doesn’t have much, but wishes to share what she has. Jim, can I send it through you, or will you email me Esther’s address? Thanks.
Esther (Sylvia),
I (we, Defended and myself) have an understanding for how you are feeling right now.
Our whole story on our current situation is long, but the short story is that we became rather presumptive in our rock solid understanding of God’s provision for us. Through a series of events beyond our control (read that God’s hand) I lost my job, crashed two vehicles (nope, three vehicles) ran up our debt in expectation of a return of what the locusts have eaten (we now know how that thinking can go.) Got a low paying job, filed bankruptcy, lost that job, lost our home to foreclosure, and have been looking for work for 16 months now.
Through it all, God has provided in such miraculous ways that we now are renting the dream home of our life! I am now working for my wife, (my Proverbs 31 woman by the way) in her little hobby business that used to get her extra grocery money that we discovered is capable of making more money than I ever made as a professional. It’s all God’s hand!
I can tell you of days like when a friend called and asked if we needed some eggs, (they have chickens,) and then came by with a month’s supply of groceries, and an envelope with one thousand dollars cash, saying “God told me to do this, hope it helps.” These, and more amazing things happened when we were crying out in our deepest despair, (only a few months ago.)
Yes, our Father does hear us, and you can expect Him to provide.
I don’t know why I am not employed (outside our home) while I have seen others loose their jobs and be reemployed after a few months, except that God has a “re-education plan” for me right now, and I would not exchange what He has done over the last few years for any amount of wealth in the world.
My dear sister, our Daddy, who clothes the lilies of the field, and takes note of each sparrow’s flight, will certainly see to your provision, to His glory.
I’m not saying, “cheer up” and trust God, I’m saying it’s okay to “cry out” to Him who hears us, and Loves us. I found it to be a great comfort in my deepest times of need.
I can cry out in despair, and KNOW that He does not get irritated with my petty requests. They are not petty to Him.
I just want you to know that in Him, there is hope, and the future is very good.
We will be praying for you too.
Defender
Defender
Your words made me teary. You DO understand what Esther is feeling. That will help her so much.
I love to hear how proud you are of your “Proverbs 31″ woman. God works in ways that are constantly surprising. Just think of all the time you and your wife get to spend with each other.
“Just think of all the time you and your wife get to spend with each other.”
Yes Canary,
That has not escaped me. Nor how much time I get with my kids right now as the first one will be leaving for college in 2010.
These are the good old days.
Ya know, after I review even the short version of His provision to us, I could just break into Worship right now!
Thank you Father! For your Lovingkindness and Mercy to us is greater than the Universe!
We bask in your provision, as we Worship You and enjoy YOU!
Amen.
COME LORD JESUS!
~D
Defender,
As we say in these here parts, “Yee-HA!”.
Dear Quizler,
I have a quiz for you…
True and undefiled Religion is…
1). Caring for widows and orphans
2). Blessing the brokenhearted
3). Giving to the least of these
4). Defending the weak
5). All of the above…
You make me feel safe in God, thanks..Charlie
Spamming my own blog.
Please see this post
Jim:
I am so humbled by this. I wrote on the blog yesterday because my burden was so heavy, and I knew I needed to humble myself and share with my brothers and sisters. I never dreamed though that you all would be led this way. This is truly unexpected or even dreamed of. God moves in surprising and totally unexpected ways. Thank you for your kindness to my children and I.
I want you to know that I do not have any problem with you sharing my story in any ways you desire. I see everything I have been through as God’s will for me. Even the suffering is an opportunity for Him to be glorified. But, I don’t seek to suffer. I comfort myself with the fact that the Word says in Hebrews 5:7-8, “In the days of
his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, ;with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.” This was Jesus, our perfect Savior, so I should expect no less for myself.
I am attaching my resume. Fred let me know what was happening. I was so surprised. I am totally willing to get my resume out there because as Ecclesiates 11:1 says, “Cast your bread upon the waters, for you will find it after many days.” and also Ecclesiates 11:6, “In the morning sow your seed, and at evening withhold not your hand, for you do not know which will prosper, this or that, or whether both alike will be good.” So I believe God is telling me that somehow with all that He is having me do, the provision is coming in the days ahead. I am having to learn to rest in that.
Thank you dear brother Jim and all of you brother and sisters for your kindness. I feel loved and cared for by the “Body of Christ” even with any difference any of us may have. Thank you for your desire to minister to the Body through this site.
As I continue to walk in faith, I will also couple my faith with works which involves working diligently as unto the Lord, and sending out resumes and responding to any ways the Lord inspires me. Who knows which will prosper?
Thanks for all your prayers.
Love, Esther
To All the Above Posters,
This is like the Hallellujah chorus—-in one accord, Gods people….SEE needs, HEAR needs, and respond with the heart of Jesus!!…….”Esther”/Sylvia, because of the genuine life of Christ in you—you are exemplifying true humility and the strength of fully believing and walking in faith. I hope SGM Gaithersberg is reading this so that they may witness what it is to be ENGAGED with the Brethren. We are watching,Sylvia, with great anticipation to see how the Father will glorify Himself more and more in your situation.
As Defender said above, this all makes ya just break out into worship…Remember the first stanza of the old hymn: …..
“Morning by morning, I wake up to find,
The power and comfort of Gods Hand in mine;
Season by season, I watch Him amazed,
In awe of the mysteries of His perfect ways…
All have need of—-His Hand will provide–
He’s always been faithful, to me….”
Ain’t Jesus good?
That’s the truth, Ellie!
Esther, Bravo! It is a privilege to help you and yours. Look at the joy we all gain by seeing God provide!!!
This is a Word the Lord gave me in June of 2007 for the Church. I share it now because I believe it is so fitting as I look on what God is doing in the Body of Christ. I never shared this with the Church publically, but I shared it with the pastors at Sovereign Grace Church of Chesapeake.
A Word for the Church
June 2007
I believe the Lord has a Word for the Church. In the book of Numbers, Chapter 32, the tribes of Reuben and Gad came to Moses and requested that they be allowed to remain in the land and not cross the Jordan with their brothers into the Promised Land, but instead be given this land for their possession. Numbers 32:6-7; “But Moses said to the people of Gad and to the people of Reuben, “Shall your brothers go to the war while you sit here? Why will you discourage the heart of the people of Israel from going over into the land that the Lord has given them?” Numbers 32:16-18, The Reubenites and Gadites came near to Moses and said, “We will build sheepfolds here for our livestock, and cities for our little ones, but we will take up arms, ready to go before the people of Israel, until we have brought them to their place. And our little ones shall live in the fortified cities because of the habitants of the land. We will not return to our homes until each of the people of Israel has gained his inheritance.”
Joshua 2:12-15, “Then Joshua called together the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and the half-tribe of Manasseh. He told them, Remember what Moses, the servant of the Lord, commanded you: The Lord your God is giving you a place of rest. He has given you this land. Your wives, children, and livestock may remain here in the land Moses assigned to you on the east side of the Jordan River. But your strong warriors, fully armed, must lead the other tribes across the Jordan to help them conquer their territory. Stay with them until the Lord gives them rest, as he has given you rest, and until they, too, possess the land the Lord your God is giving them. Only then may you return and settle here on the east side of the Jordan River in the land that Moses, the servant of the Lord, assigned to you.”
Jesus Christ left His place in glory, came down to earth, and laid down His life to do the will of His Father so that we might be delivered from our enemy – death, hell and the grave, and be brought to our eternal inheritance. For 33 years Jesus laid down His life to do the will of His Father.
In John 15:12-13, “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.” We are called to lay down our lives for our brothers.
Just as the men of valor from the Reubenites, Gadites, and half-tribe of Manasseh were called to leave their place of rest, their
promised inheritance, armed for war, and pass over before their brothers to help them until each of them possessed their promised inheritance, I believe the Lord is calling us to arm ourselves and stand firm with our brothers and sisters until they enter their place of rest.
Ephesians 6:13-18, “Take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To the end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints.”
God is pouring out His Holy Spirit filling us with power and preparing us to pass over before our brothers in Christ, ready to lay down our lives, “fighting the good fight of faith,” extinguishing every flaming dart of Satan, until each of us and our brothers has driven out our enemy the devil, and each of us safely takes possession of our promised inheritance in Christ.
Ephesians 1:11-14, “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been
predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
Ezekiel 36:22, “Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name.” Christ’s honor is at stake in our bodily lives.
Note: I believe we are seeing these Words fulfilled!!!! It is so exciting!!!
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Esther,
Thank you! I believe the word you have shared will help my family in making a serious decision. It cannot be all about ourselves. We, in faith, can help our brethren saints reach their “promised land”, too. Thanks for having the courage to share what has been on your heart.
Thankyou, Sylvia—This Word merits much study and prayer on my part…What a picture of we, the Body—called to fight FOR our brothers and sisters…laying down our lives (this points my heart and posture to seek to be emptied of self and any animosity towards the Brethren/SGM leadership that have deeply wounded my family)….and we are ever in battle—a spiritual battle, and thus the spiritual armor. The battles are for Truth (and the “Good News” is the fulfillment of Christs accomplished redemptive salvation)….Truth, Gods Truth, shatters darkness and deception and counterfeits…….as we are ‘battling’ for Truth at the harbor of refuge Jim and Carole have been assigned to provide… I believe we rally under the banner the Lord has raised up:—”Thou hast given a banner to those who fear Thee; that it may be displayed because of the Truth.” Psalm 60:4— For the sake of His HOLY Name (Ezekiel 36:22 referenced above.)
Hey all. Just getting caught up.
INC, so much encouragement has been directed your way by these dear folks that I feel all I can add is my prayers. Grace to you!
Sylvia, thank you for sharing that word and those Scriptures. Receiving a word like that helps us blow past all the accusations of gossip and slander that we so often hear and set our minds and hearts on the task ahead. It helps us keep our eyes on Him. Praying for you as well.
Hey Gracie!!
good to see you again!!!
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Today we had a special time of worship. The pastor had us sing,
“Great is thy faithfulness, Great is thy faithfulness.
Morning by Morning new mercies I see
All I have needed thy hand has provided
Great is thy Faithfulness, Oh Lord to Me.”
My heart swelled with gratitude to my Abba Daddy Father, wonderful loving Savior (my Spiritual Husband), and to Holy Spirit my blessed comforter and Helper. I also thank each of you my brothers and sisters who are blessing my children and I with your giving. A week ago, I was crying out to God feeling a sense of weariness in my
walk of faith, but now I sit here at my computer wanting so much to express my heart of thankfulness knowing that I lack the words to adequately express what I feel right now. I feel loved, cherished, and totally poured down on by my loving God. And each of you are an expression of His love to me. Thank you, Thank you!!!!
I am looking to the future knowing that somehow God has a plan that is unfolding.
I can’t wait to share with each of you my continued “Story of Hope.” Every chapter ever lived thus far has been saturated with God’s presence and love. My husband
once gave me a poem for ”Mother’s Day.” It was called, “The Quilt.” I cried when I read it. It truly expressed my concern that somehow my life had fallen so short of ever bringing glory to my Savior. I wanted so much to do something great for Him
because I love him so much. After I read this, it gave me a brand new understanding of what God values as glorifying. It gave me hope, and I trust it will you!!!
The Quilt
As I faced my Maker at the last Judgment, I knelt before the Lord along with the other souls. Before each of us laid our lives, like the squares of a quilt, in many piles. An angel sat before each of us sewing quilt squares together into tapestries that represented our lives. As my angel took each piece of cloth off the pile, I noticed how ragged and empty each of my squares was. They were filled with giant holes.
Each square was labeled with a part of my life that had been difficult, the challenges and temptations I was faced with in everyday life. I saw hardships that I had endured, which were the largest holes of all. I glanced around me. No one else had such squares. Other than a tiny hole here and there, the other tapestries were filled with rich color and bright hues of worldly fortune. I gazed upon my own life and was disheartened. My angel was sewing the ragged pieces of cloth together, threadbare and empty. Finally, the time came when each life was to be displayed, held up to the light. . . the scrutiny of truth. The others arose, each in turn, holding up their tapestries. So filled their lives had been! My angel looked upon me, and nodded for me to arise. My gaze dropped to the ground in shame. I hadn’t had all the earthly fortunes. I had had love in my life, and laughter. But there had also been trials of illness and death, and false accusations that took from me my world as I knew it. I had to start over many times. I often struggled with the temptation to quit, only to somehow muster the strength to pick up and begin again. I had spent many nights on my knees in prayer, asking for help and guidance in my life. I had often been held up to ridicule, which I endured painfully; each time offering it up to the Father in hopes that I would not melt within my skin beneath the critical gaze of those who unfairly judged me. And now, I had to face the truth. My life was what it was, and I had to accept it for what it had been. I arose and slowly lifted the combined squares of my life to the light. An awe-filled gasp filled the air. I gazed around at the others who stared at me with eyes wide. Then, I looked upon the tapestry before me. Light flooded the many holes, creating an image. The face of Christ. Our Lord then stood before me, with warmth and love in His eyes. He said, “Every time you gave over your life to Me, it became My life, My hardships, and My struggles. Each point of light in your life is when you stepped aside and let Me shine through, until there was more of Me than there was of you.” May all our quilts be threadbare and worn, allowing Christ to shine through.
Hi Ellie! Great to see you too and thanks for the hugs! Love those Ellie hugs. Hope everything is good in your part of the world. Hey, by the way, we disconnected our home phone to save money. I have often hoped you didn’t try calling it only to find it was no longer there. That would not be cool.
Esther,
Thank you for sharing The Quilt. It is always good to be reminded and encouraged that the way God measures success is not the same as the world’s. I hope that the “quilt” of my life will reflect the glory of God in some way.
Hi Everyone:
Just wanted to check in as some of you requested! Thank you to so
many of you who have been sending help to my children and I. I am
so grateful. My current boss and his wife spoke to me today and they are planning to increase my hours from the current 20 hours a week until I can find another job. They are trying to help as well. I have many resumes out there right now, and I am believing the Lord will open a door in His perfect timing. Thank you for your prayers. I am very, very grateful.
Love,
Esther (Sylvia)
Hi Sylvia!!
God is so amazingly kind, isn’t He? Rejoicing with you for His goodness…
(BTW… I just sent you an email…)
Sylvia,
Thank you for the Quilt story; wow!
We are continuing to pray for God’s provision for you & your family and rejoicing at this new development!. He always takes care of His children, and sends them the help they need — at exactly the moment they need it.
In His grace,
P.D.
protestantdame @ gmail-dot-com
Esther,
Once again, your post makes me turn my eyes to Jesus. Thank you.
I’m rejoicing to hear how the Lord is providing. Keep the updates coming, as they inspire us all during these difficult times…
I don’t want this issue to get lost in the mix. Please see Sylvia’s latest post above.
The PO Box is open for 90 days.
Read the original post here.
Please pray about this.
I would appreciate prayer & possibly recommendations of any churches in the East Valley of Phoenix, Arizona. We are in the 85282 Zip code.
I am familiar with SGC in Gilbert & have tried to push myself to commit for a while. But just don’t have the confidence that we could ever fully belong, even several separate member friends have agreed I probably wouldn’t due to a significant lack of other single moms.
I’m a divorced mom & take seriously the teaching & authority that I would place my children under and have been searching, praying, asking advice for years without finding. I’ve briefly read a few of these forums for several months. Love the SGC worship, community spirit, and most of the doctrines espoused, at times hoping I could overlook the problems out of desperation to try to belong somewhere, anywhere. I was reading parts of “Shepherding a Child’s Heart” this weekend craving another mom friend to discuss it with and of course crying out to the Lord for His answer.
I came back tonight researching SCG Gilbert – there’s so much wisdom & discernment that I have read here. I am especially desperate to ask, if you left & found somewhere the Lord might lead us to try, I would so appreciate the counsel.
I would rather not publicly post an email address, but will, if that would be preferable.
Thanks!
P.S. Is there an inner-city plant being planned?
Searching Mommy,
I’ve never lived in Arizona, but I will pray you find friends and a church. I did want to let you know that up in the right sidebar under Links, Jim has a link to Phoenix Preacher’s blog. Maybe he knows of a church in your area.
May the Lord bless you and keep you!
Hi Everyone:
I want to give an update on my situaton as I promised many of you. Recently Jim opened the P. O. Box for others to send financial support to my children and me. I have to say it has been so wonderful to receive cards and letters from many of you with encouraging words. I have received from 10 people to date. I have been able to keep all of my bills paid for the month and even started the beginnings of a savings account. I am so blessed by all of your kindness towards me. It makes me cry!!!! I also want to ask for your prayers. Recently I have been walking through more healing in my heart. I think it may have shown in one of my latest postings on another area of the blog. I hope you will bear with me if I ever come across unkind. I have grieved this week to think that I may have caused any harm to anyone on this blog or anywhere else because of something I might say in a harsh way. I know what it is like to be hurt so I do not want to hurt anyone else. Please forgive me if I have contributed in any way to anyone’s hurt through any words that I have ever spoken. My desire is for truth but that truth must be girded up by “love.” I so appreciate everyone for your love for me. I sense it each time anyone writes to me. The Lord spoke to my heart recently that He was healing me, but that it would be “little by little.” He is gracious, tender, and patient with us. I am thankful for that!!! Today my boss and I talked about my job. He has graciously decided to keep me full-time for the summer. He also told me not to ever worry about my job with them. We will watch together and see what God unfolds in the days ahead. I have continued to send out resumes. I haven’t had any opportunities for interviews, but I sense the Lord does not want me to be concerned about that. It is truly out of my control, and the fact is, I do not know what God’s plans are for me. He obviously wants me to stay put at this time. That isn’t a problem because I love where I am working and the people that I have the opportunity to work with. They are a blessing to me. Again, thank you to each of you who have sent financial support to my children and I. I know the Lord is blessed to see His “Body” walking together in ”love.” I pray that the Lord will bless each of you and your families, and may He pour down a blessing that you cannot contain in the days ahead.
Love, Sylvia (Esther)
Oh, Sylvia, I am so happy and blessed to hear this. It is so truly wonderful to have your report of the Body walking together in love. Just so truly wonderful. The blessing of His love seen in His people is such a reassurance to my heart of the reality of Jesus Christ and of the love of the Father for each of us, His dear children. (John 17:20-23).
Esther,
Thank you for revealing more of the Lord’s tender mercies to you. It is truly inspiring.:)
Sylvia, I wanted to write a bit more about why your post was such a blessing to me.
One of the hardest things for me (and I know for many of you!) was going through such a lack of love in my prior church situation–that’s the whole heart of the matter, isn’t it? I was left with such doubts about the transforming power of Jesus and God’s love for me. Hearing of the real love of other believers so encourages my trust and faith.
I have my own praise and prayer request.
Yesterday afternoon we found two jobs for which my husband is very qualified. We sent off letters and resumes today. This is so hopeful to us. We were praying so yesterday morning for something to break that day.
We would appreciate your prayers for him and that he would find favor here if it is the Lord’s will and that the Lord will sustain us in hope.
I thank our God so much for your love and prayers. I thank Him for His tender mercies.
A couple of days ago, I read and pondered some quotes–one from D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones on the grace of our salvation and a similar one from Steve Brown. They were very healing and freeing.
Yesterday I had a blessed time of sharing and prayer with a friend. Last night I was looking at the openings of the NT letters and it was a blessing to see the grace, mercy and peace given to us from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. This was topped with reading of the response to Esther (Sylvia).
Later I looked again at Jude’s opening of his letter which was especially meaningful to me: “Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ: May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.” (NASU) It was so good to read that I am beloved in God the Father. Thank you for your prayers.
INC,
That’s wonderful about the job possibilities! Still praying…
It is amazing how the beginnings of these letters you mention are so uplifting in themselves.
“Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ: May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.” (NASU)
Simply beautiful. When we got a letter from our pastor encouraging us to go to that year’s celebration, it opened like this:
Dear Friend,
I trust this note finds you successfully identifying, confessing and turning from sin to the praise of His glorious grace!
Notice any difference? This is a direct quote from the letter, as my husband still has it on file. Jude makes us realize how precious we are to Jesus. My ex-pastor’s words just reminded me to keep my eyes focused on me and my sin.
Canary, yes, I notice the difference!
My husband just got an email saying one position was put on hold yesterday and his credentials for the other were not what the company is looking for. This is confusing because he is super-qualified according to both job descriptions. He has left a voice mail to ask what they did want that he doesn’t have. He is going to try to speak to a person about it! Please pray this is cleared up and that he will be considered!
INC, You bet!
Dear INC,
Thank you for your kind words and suggestion. I went to the website & posted a prayer request there. I will contact him personally later on.
As limited as I can get online, I appreciate reading the answers to prayer here & the encouragement going on. It helps me not give up
. The Lord led me to Psalm 25 last night & graciously reminded me that putting my hope in Him is a choice & an action. Maybe He wants to heal the hurts & fill up the loneliness first, then maybe He will show me fellowship.
Thank you again,
SearchingMommy
SearchingMommy,
You’re welcome. May the Lord bless you and soon lead you to the right fellowship.
We have spent a very strange afternoon with emails and phone calls with a couple of professional placement services. One we did not like and the other, well, we are not yet sure what is going on. The second seem as if they know what they’re doing, but my husband has had to really push in regard to some things. He won out in one item while there is some reluctance about the second. Obviously, with the weekend here it’s all on hold now until next week. The Lord has helped me not to be downhearted, but we continue to desire your prayers!
INC,
If at all possible, try to have a restful weekend. Still lifting you up!
Hi Everyone:
Here is a quick update! I shared recently that I have been able to put a side some of the money I have received from many of you and start a small savings account. I also received a call from a friend yesterday who wanted to help me out as well. Later yesterday evening I decided to go by an auto repair shop owned by a Christian family whose child attends the school where I work. I needed them to check my door panel which was coming off. While they were at it, I asked if they would check my radiator. It has been sputtering sometimes and also I smelled coolant. They informed me that I had a real problem. The hose running to the radiator had completely broken off. I had lost all of the coolant and a lot of water. That was sad news because the radiator was just a year old on May 27th (now passed the warrenty period). At first I felt so disappointed, but the more I thought about it, I realized that I had so much to rejoice about. The Lord knew this was coming and I have enough money saved to cover the repair. Isn’t God so faithful. I appreciate each of you who have been walking through this season with me - what a testimony of “The Body of Christ!!!” And what a testimony of God’s faithfulness!!! Tonight I go to bed very peaceful because I see my “Abba Father” has everything under control (even the unexpected things).
Love, Sylvia (Esther)
Sylvia,
That is beyond wonderful! Thanks be to God!!!
Hi Everyone:
I was looking at the beginning of this thread and it asks the question, “What are you grateful for?” I have to start with that in mind. I am grateful today that the Lord continues to provide for all my needs faithfully!!! To Him be the glory for ever and ever!!!! I am grateful for His kindness and mercies to me every day. Every morning His mercies are new!!!
I am writing today to share a prayer request, but also to share a testimony within the prayer request. Recently my car broke down because it needed a new radiator. I was able to replace it with the help of many of you who have continued to provide generously to me through the UPS Store P. O. Box. This past Saturday my daughter and I were going to work on two cleanings jobs for my landlord. We had just finished the first one and I decided to go back past where we live because I had googled the directions from my house for both jobs. We had just left the interstate and were on the main road past our house. Suddenly there was an unusual sound in the front of the car and I lost complete control moving forward. I only had gas power, but no driving power. Soon I found myself coasting from 50 mph down to nothing. I was partly off the main road and partly in a turn lane. Very soon a young man in his truck came directly in front of me and stopped. He jumped out and asked what the problem was. I explained. Soon another man stopped beside me and also got out. Between the two of them they pushed us off the main road safely. I was so very grateful that I wasn’t still on the interstate when this happened. I am also grateful that I was within 10 minutes walking distance from my house. I told my daughter as we were walking, “Isn’t Jesus the most wonderful husband in the world. He knew what was coming and he provided everything we needed.” I am so grateful today to be able to glorify my wonderful Savior and faithful Father. I am grateful that I wasn’t on the interstate, that I was near home, and that there were others to help push us to safety. I love you Jesus!!! Also, my sister-in-law was calling as I walked through the door from walking home. She hasn’t called in several months. She told me that she felt such a heavy burden to check on me. When I told her the story, she told me imediately that she would speak to her husband to see if they can help out financially. I was blown away. I hadn’t hardly thought through anything, and God is already on the move on my behalf. I must say that the more I walk through my circumstances the more I see a vivid understanding of the power of Christ manifested through the “Body of Christ.” As I worship Him for His faithfulness, I also thank Him for the ”Body of Christ” that each of you are to me. God bless each of you.
My prayer request is: The car needs a new transmission (rebuilt). The cost is $1,665.00 confirmed today by a wonderful Godly mechanic who God has brought into our lives. We have talked it over and believe that the car is worth fixing because it has a rebuilt engine, new radiator, new water pump, new brakes, and the previous owners kept up on so many things with it. We believe that there are not too many big repair jobs left on it for a while. It makes sense to stick with what you know instead of starting over with another used vehicle that might need major repairs in the near future.
One more thing, over the past couple of weeks I was feeling rather down about my circumstances as far as my inability to be independent. I have tried so hard to find a new job with better income and benefits, but there has been nothing so far. As I went to my “Abba Father” I believe He comforted me that this is His will for me at this season. I also believe that God is using circumstances in many lives to bring the “Body of Christ” together to bear one another’s burdens. It is truly humbling for me to be so open with my life, but if this brings glory to my Savior and Lord, than by all means Lord have your way. I will keep pressing on doing what I know to do, but ultimately I am trusting and resting in Him.
Thanks for your prayers Brothers and Sister,
Love, (Sylvia) Esther
Esther,
What a wonderful story! So many of us are learning to depend on the Lord to sustain us day by day with our finances. Amazing things happen when we trust our Father. Keep sharing, because your faith is so encouraging!
Canary
Wow, E/S!!!!!
That is aMAZing!!!!
Especially the part where your SIL was calling as you walked in the door!!!
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ hugs }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Praying for you!!!
:]
Esther,
Thank you again for sharing. Your attitude and accounts of the goodness of God inspire me to look at my own struggles in a different light. Yes, God is getting the glory through your testimony.
Canary and Ellie,
So nice to see you here, my dear friends.
Esther/Sylvia,
You always inspire to “look up”…our redemption is continously drawing near to us! Love to your household……..
Gracie,
It is good to hear from you too, sweetie-pie. Hope your summer is going well. Mine is extremely busy.
Ellie, I owe you a phone call, but my computer is down, which has your number in it. Call me when you can!
Good to see you, too, Gracie!!! :*
I’ll try to give you a call soon, Canary!
Dear Brothers and Sisters:
I have a praise report!!! The other day I shared with you all that my car’s transmission went out. The cost of the repair is $1,665.00. I asked you to pray for me. Here is God’s answer. Some friends are sending me a check for $1,000 towards the repair. My sister-in-law is sending $300. And my dear father who is in his late 70′s wants to help out as much as he can too. God is providing and I am so very grateful to Him. I must share this testimony of His faithfulness to my children and me. Do I hear a shout out there!!!!!!!! PRAISE THE LORD, PRAISE THE LORD, LET THE EARTH HEAR YOUR VOICE! PRAISE THE LORD, PRAISE THE LORD, LET THE PEOPLE REJOICE! OH COME TO THE FATHER THROUGH JESUS THE SON! AND GIVE HIM THE GLORY GREAT THINGS HE HAS DONE!!!!!!
Back at the home front there are also many things to be thankful for. My 14 year old son who began having seizures in 2004 and was diagnosed with epilepsy has been released by the neurologist as being seizure free! He is weaning off his medication as I speak. By Monday of next week he will be completely weaned off of all medication. This is an amazing answer to prayer for him and for our family. We thank the Lord for healing in his body.
Also, this same son was struggling greatly with anger and hurt towards his father. He wasn’t willing to even see him or speak to him. Over the past 8 months I have continued to talk to him and pray for him that he would begin to understand forgiveness. I know that only after understanding our own need of love and forgiveness extended to us by God can we begin to truly forgive others. On Father’s Day I scheduled a time for my kids and their dad and I to meet for lunch at a local restaurant to celebrate. My youngest son was not wanting to go at first, but as the day approached he agreed to go. We ended up having to give my husband a ride back to where he lives. While on the drive my son sat in the back seat while his dad was in the front passenger seat. Spontaneously my son said, “Dad, I love you!” and his dad answered back, “I love you too son.” That was all, but it was the most profound moment!!!! IT WAS HUGE!!!!
My son was taking a step towards forgiveness and how freeing it is. I have released my son that forgiving his dad does not mean he has to trust him yet. Trust must be earned. So while forgiveness is possible, I know reconciliation will have to come through true repentence and trust being restored. And that we hope will come one day!!!!
My 22 year old daughter met with her dad for lunch today!! She told me that the Lord has been impressing on her that she needs to pursue her relationship with her dad. Their time together brought some tears, but also gave her time to speak truth to her dad. I am so proud of her for taking these steps of faith and for being courageous.
My family is experiencing healing!!! Please continue to pray for us. I desire to have wisdom as I continue to walk through my circumstances. My greatest desire has always been and will always be “to please and glorify the Lord!” Thank you for walking with me.
Love,
Sylvia (Esther)
Sylvia,
How wonderful to hear of these happenings in your life! It brings such joy when we see the Holy Spirit moving on our behalf. The Lord is good!
And that song you quoted… man, does that ever take me back. Ha ha!
Sylvia,
I am glad to hear of God’s provision for your family and for the beginning of healing with your children and their father. I also thank God for the physical healing of your son.
To all,
Please pray for work for my husband. We need to see God powerfully act on our behalf. Things are getting down to the wire for us.
Sylvia…thank you so much for opening your heart to share the chronicle of what God is doing in your family. It really is a wonderful thing to see how he is caring for you. It gives such hope and encouragement to us all.
Inc. Praying for you and your family.
Lord we ask, would you please provide in a miraculous way?
….to Him Who, by the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]– 21To Him be glory in the church… Gal 3:20 + AMP
Sylvia,
That is so wonderful!
INC,
Still praying. The answer will come, dear peep.
Hi Brother and Sisters:
Just want to update you on my car. It is now completely repaired. It has a rebuilt transmission, new radiator, new front tire, new rear brakes, and passed inspection today. I am so happy. I picked it up this afternoon just in time for the work week coming up. Most of the money has come in for all of these repairs. It is truly amazing to watch God provide. Thank you for your prayers. I will keep you updated!!!
Love, Sylvia (Esther)
To My Dear Brothers and Sisters “The Body of Christ”:
This is my prayer for each of you today! And may each of you enjoy the presence of our wonderful God!!!!!
PSALM 20:1-8 (AMPLIFIED BIBLE)
20:1 “MAY THE Lord answer you in the day of trouble! May the name of the God of Jacob set you up on high [and defend you]; Ps 20:2 Send you help from the sanctuary and support, refresh, and strengthen you from Zion; Ps 20:3 Remember all your offerings and accept your burnt sacrifice. lah [pause, and think of that]! Ps 20:4 May He grant you according to your heart’s desire and fulfill all your plans. Ps 20:5 We will [shout in] triumph at your salvation and victory, and in the name of our God we will set up our banners. May the Lord fulfill all your petitions. Ps 20:6 Now I know that the Lord saves His anointed; He will answer him from His holy heaven with the saving strength of His right hand. Ps 20:7 Some trust in and boast of chariots and some of horses, but we will trust in and boast of the name of the Lord our God. Ps 20:8 They are bowed down and fallen, but we are risen and stand upright.”
Enjoying the presence of Jesus Christ my Savior, Abba Father, and the Holy Spirit my comforter is the greatest joy of my life.
Ps 21:6
For You make him to be blessed and a blessing forever; You make him exceedingly glad with the joy of Your presence. [Gen. 12:2.]
God bless each of you today and your families.
Love, Sylvia (Esther)
Sylvia & All,
We have this CD, and enjoy worshiping Him with this music, but this one song is special to us these days.
Found it on Youtube so I could share it with y’all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoqV2ucPsaI
Enjoy!
Defender
Dear Defender:
Unfortunately I have dial-up and I can’t listen to Youtube or any video type downloads. I also have a very strong filter on my computer, too and it won’t let us go to Youtube either. Is there anyway to at least post the words? I enjoy the words of songs these days as well as the tunes. Thanks for thinking of me today and for desiring to share encouragement in many ways even through song.
Have a blessed weekend!!!
Sylvia (Esther)
Alright Sylvia, this is making me nutz.
I have been all over the net and find just about every song Tommy Walker has recorded with the exception of this one; “We Will Remember”.
I have misplaced our CD of this recording (I convert all our CD’s to mp3 and archive the CD’s, usually.)
So with a little more time, I will have to play the song and “take dictation” and get back with you. (I’m slow.)
But this is worth it.
Stay tuned…….
Defender
Okay, I guess I a little quicker than I thought,
here it is.
We Will Remember
Preformed live by Tommy Walker
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
And we will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
You’re our Creator, our Life Sustainer,
Deliverer, our Comfort, our Joy.
Throughout the ages, You’ve been our shelter,
our peace in the midst of the storm.
With signs and wonders, you’ve shown your power,
With precious blood, you’ve showed us your grace,
You’ve been our helper, our liberator,
the giver of life with no end.
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
When we walk through life darkest valley,
We will look back at all you have done,
AND WE WILL SHOUT!
“OUR GOD IS GOOD, AND HE IS THE FAITHFUL ONE!”
HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH!
To the One from whom all blessings flow!
HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH!
To the One whose glory has been shown!
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
I still Remember, the day you saved me,
the day I heard you call out my name,
You said you loved me, would never leave me,
AND I’VE NEVER BEEN THE SAME!
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
We will remember
We will remember
We will remember, the works of your hands
We will stop, and give You praise,
For Great is Thy faithfulness.
(My keyboard is wet with tears.)
~D
Defender:
Wow! These words are powerfully true.
The following words especially express my heart cry to God:
You’re our Creator, our Life Sustainer,
Deliverer, our Comfort, our Joy.
Throughout the ages, You’ve been our shelter,
our peace in the midst of the storm.
With signs and wonders, you’ve shown your power,
With precious blood, you’ve showed us your grace,
You’ve been our helper, our liberator,
the giver of life with no end.
When we walk through life darkest valley,
We will look back at all you have done,
AND WE WILL SHOUT!
“OUR GOD IS GOOD, AND HE IS THE FAITHFUL ONE!”
WE WILL REMEMBER!!!!!!!!
Thank you so much for sharing this song with all of us. I love songs that express my gratitude to the Lord for His amazing FAITHFULNESS!!!!
God bless you,
Sylvia (Esther)
“I love songs that express my gratitude to the Lord for His amazing FAITHFULNESS!!!!”
THAT, is what worship is.
Ya know, when we joined PDI back in the early 90′s, we greatly enjoyed the worship music that focused on the “joy of our salvation”.
Over the years we noticed that it slowly changed to something more like the “misery of our sin.”
I do feel sorry at times for people who hang their heads low under the weight of their sin, when they should be rejoicing in their GREAT REDEEMER.
Great is our Redeemer!
~D
Ya know, when we joined PDI back in the early 90’s, we greatly enjoyed the worship music that focused on the “joy of our salvation”.
Over the years we noticed that it slowly changed to something more like the “misery of our sin.”
Exactly!!! I used to love the worship!!!
Hi Everyone:
What are you grateful to God for?
I am so grateful for His faithfulness to me. I am grateful for his protection. I am grateful for Jesus my Savior and that He calls me friend. I am grateful for Abba Father that He calls me His daughter. I am grateful for the Holy Spirit my
“Helper” and my “Comforter” who illuminates the eyes of my heart that I might know the hope that he has called me to in Christ Jesus and the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints of which each of us are who have received Christ.
What would you ask of Him?
I would ask that God would continue to heal my family. This past Sunday at the church where I now attend we were encouraged to come prepared to intercede for any “prodigal sons” in our families. The pastor pointed out a very important thought: Jesus, our perfect and blameless Savior has had many “prodigal sons.” He encouraged those of us who have children who are wayward to exchange “guilt”
for “grace.” For if our perfect Heavenly Father has had “prodigal sons” and our perfect blameless Savior had “prodigal sons” (think of Judas who sold Christ for 30 pieces of silver) than we must not be shocked when we as Christian parents, who love our children dearly, who have taught them the truth with all of our heart, find our very own children straying from the truth. I went to the alter Sunday evening where we were encouraged to write on paper that was provided the names of our “prodigal sons” (whether it be within our own family, friends, neighbors). We prayed over these and later they were put in a box up on the platform where they will remain for the month of August for the church to continue to intercede for. You can be assured there were many tears flowing that night. Many of us have prayed for
years for our loved ones. I cried out to God for my husband and my own sons. As I spread the papers on the alter, I could only think of King Hezekiah in Isaiah 37, as he spread out the letter before God that he had received from the enemy who taunted him that His God would not come through for His people. But, King Hezekiah cried out to God for His mercy and for deliverance for His people. God heard King Hezekiah’s prayer and not long afterwards brought victory. As I spread these papers on the alter Sunday night, I cried out to God to bring victory. My prayer is for mercy for my husband and my sons. I left those papers there on the alter that night just as in so many ways I have laid my husband and my sons before God and left them there in His hands.
My Prayer: “Dear Abba Father, please have mercy on my wayward husband and sons.
Please draw them to yourself by your Holy Spirit and illuminate the eyes of their hearts to the hope that is in Jesus Christ. Save them I pray. Amen!”
Please remember INC and her family in your prayers. She and her family are going through a major readjustment. Pray for rest, peace, and a smoothing of their way. Thanks!:)
Hi all!
Just wanted to make use of the “prayer” request column to ask for prayer – it’s looking increasingly likely that I’m going to be meeting the SGM UK leaders in the near future to discuss my experience with them, and I’m feeling sick with worry about it.
I know it’s crazy, I’ve got nothing to lose, but it was such a dark time after leaving that church. I truly felt like they had cast me to Satan and fully expected to die. I felt so sick that I had trusted them and confided secrets I haven’t even told my family and they turned round and called me all the names under the sun.
The idea of seeing them again doesn’t make me feel good – but I know that this meeting is important for moving on past this. So I’d so value prayer from you guys – true friends! And I will of course keep you updated and let you know what happens.
Thanks so much – each and everyone of you (even the current SGM-ites) are special people!
Dan:
I have begun praying for you on this.
Two thoughts:
1) Recognize it is possible that this meeting may not help you move on
2) Consider taking a friend along with you
The dark time you experienced after leaving (and probably while you were part of SG) can melt in the light of the glorious Gospel; that is my prayer for you!
With brotherly love,
Former SG Pastor
Dan,
I second FSGP’s advice. And I would add that you should meet at a “nuetral” spot. Go to a coffee house or restaurant rather than at the church. And take a level headed solid Christian friend with you.
Praying, Dan! Good advice from FSGP and Cala.
Dan,
Echoing FSGP and Calas “advice”…………and we’re praying for you………..
Guys (all!)
Thanks SO much for loving advice and prayer
It gives me such courage!
FSGP – thanks so much, I had decided on taking a friend (putting Matthew 18 into practice … “two or three witnesses”)
I do hear you about the meeting maybe not helping.
Cala – The comment on neutral spot is excellent, I will definately ask for this! I think it was the idea of having to go into those offices full of “approved” books … yuck!
Thanks again!
x
Go for it, Dan! You have nothing to loose, and a whole lot to say. Praying for you!
God bless you Dan. Keep us posted!
Agreed on all suggestions so far. Perhaps your current pastor would join you?
(if you have one) Or older mentor?
A neutral, public place is CRITICAL!
(And if you could record it I would)
Also, when we had such a critical meeting we asked friends to intercede for us ON the location where we were, during the meeting. It was hugely comforting and helpful, I believe. If God would provide such friends able to do this I highly recommend it.
Finally, a non-local friend was praying with us, and for us, during that meeting, and she reminded me about the Armor that we have (Ephesians 6:10-20);
The belt of Truth = Jesus is the way, the Truth and the Life
The breastplate of Righteousness = Jesus is our righteousness
The shoes of the Gospel = Jesus, author of the Gospel & our Shalom
The shielf of faith extinguishes satan’s darts = Jesus, the name above every other name
The helmet of Salvation = only in Jesus
The Sword of the Spirit = Jesus, the Word
With this armor, you can pray, in the name of Jesus!
The Whole Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.
Dan
I also am praying that this goes well. Tne neutral meeting site sure is a good idea.
Dan-
You’re a brave soul…I’ll be praying for peace and for the truth, spoken in love, to roll gently from your lips.
MM
Praying for you, Dan.
I agree with the suggestions presented and am glad you are going to heed them.
May I suggest one more thing? If the people you are meeting with try to turn the conversation around to get off the topic of your agenda items, I suggest you state (as many times as necessary), “I’d like to discuss that with you, but right now I would like to continue discussing these things. Perhaps we can make an appointment at a later date to discuss those matters.” Then it would be up to you to meet again (or not) as you wish. The idea is to not allow them to refocus the meeting or avoid talking about what you need to discuss.
I agree with Remnant. Even suggesting an agenda may save you some heartache.
I was scheduled to meet with 2 leaders from my xSGc. I proposed having an agenda and setting some time frames. The senior pastor said the meeting would be short because they just wanted to thank me for my service (and I heard a voice saying “Red Alert!”). When I checked on the other leader he said the meeting could go on for hours as there were many issues to resolve. This all came months after I had resigned from leadership and a month or so after I resigned from membership. The meeting never occurred.
Your mileage may vary,
Former SG Pastor
Remnant
LOL
SGM Leaders turn the tables and try to put back the focus on members or regular members? No way.
That was very good addtional advice.
For one case I know of, the SGM Leader said I wonder if your wife has a problem with bitterness (or something along those lines). Her husband responsded I am sure she has a problem like all people do with this but lets get back to the issue at hand.
I thought that was a good way to handle this.
Guys and gals,
Thanks so much again for the continued advice and support, believe me I truly am taking note of each and every comment! It’s so wonderful feeling like I am not going alone but have an amazing group of people behind me! Essential when particularly I am going to this meeting knowing that my family and parents would be firmly on the side of SGM.
Agenda – noted and essential I think!
D
I’ll add my prayers as well but isn’t it a sad observation that the whole armor of God is needed to defend Dan against a likely assault that will be carried out by brothers in Christ?
But I am a bitter wife so disregard my comments.
Hey all,
I wanted to thank you all so so much for your prayers – so far I dare to hope they have worked! I have had a very gracious email from the SGM apostley person agreeing to a meeting and sounding promising.
Sadly though – my nephew is getting dedicated near the end of the month at the SGM flagship church (for the UK) in Wales, and so of course that has prompted the inevitable scenario – I’ve got to go, but not having been disfellowshipped before (!!) I have had to go through the humiliation of writing and asking permission to attend.
I don’t know – maybe disfellowshipping only applies to the sole SGM church you are booted out of. But knowing SGM – who knows?! Disfellowhipping is a word that only the Jehovah’s Witnesses use that I know of, and someone kicked out from there can’t attend any other Kingdom Halls. I guess the same is true of SGM – although if I turned up to Covenant Life Church in Maryland, I wonder if I could sneak past the stewards?!
But seriously, I would so so value on-going prayers – that the apostle man will agree to let me know go for the sake of my family and it will be okay. And will keep updated with news of the meeting as it goes!
Thanks so much guys – you are all wonderful!
Dan
I will pray that you can go to your own nephew’s dedication. At CLC, the disfellowshipped can attend any public meeting, but not members-only meeTings (like care group or family meetings etc). GE attended for two years before being re-fellowshipped in the fall.
Dan,
I backtracked, read your story, and was horrified. Do you currently attend a church and have a pastor? That would be a good person to take along to your meeting. The key is for you and any one with you to be prepared to challenge their approach to your situation. You mentioned that your family is involved in SGM, will any of them back you up? Finally, Do Not be intimidated. Regardless of what you may or may not have done, you did not deserve the treatment you recieved.
Dan-
Will pray that it goes well….your a good soul to keep up the effort with your family.
peace-mm
Dan, I agree with MM – it shows that you love your family, with all the effort you are making. I pray that the Lord will go before you, to make the way smooth.
Dan
I sure hope that the leadership in England humbly reconsiders what they did to you. It sure doesn’t look like they considered what their actions did to you including the strain it put on your family relationship. Leaders should not so cavalierly use what they did to you as they appear to have done.
Sadly but ironically what these leaders did could have set you up for sin vs helping keep you from sin. When one is estranged from his family it can make it harder to resist temptation etc.
Thus these leaders should have really given more thought to what they did before doing it IMO.
I never thought I would be able to see good coming out of my whole SGM experience but I can honestly say that “meeting” all you amazing people has done me so much good. I’ve laughed and cried and learnt from each and every one of you and I am so grateful for your love, care and advice. The worst experience of my life was immediately after feeling like I must be the evil, wrong one because who else has been cast out of a church? Then meeting this community of people and realising that actually we are NOT in the wrong – our only crime was to believe the best in our leaders maybe (and part of me still wants to).
So thank you all so much!
Greg – thanks, yes I am going to take my pastor along – he has walked through all this with me for years, a man I knew even before SGM. My family won’t stand with me – my parents are SGM-through and through.
Dan,
So glad you have your pastor to go along, who knows all the facts because he has history with you. It breaks my heart that your parents won’t stand with you. Where is the love of Jesus, who did not come to judge the world but to save it?
I hope they will be moved by your example of God’s love. It can happen!
Dan,
I’ll be praying about your situation. I’d love to read your story. Could you post a direct link?
God bless you.
Wanda-Dan’s story is the first entry on the “your story” tab on the top of the page.
Dan-you know this, but I want to say publicly how much I admire you.
Thanks Jim! I didn’t realize I should click on the word “here” to read the testimonies. Got it! Looks like I have a lot of reading to do…
I have just started reading Dan’s story and haven’t gotten past his comment explaining that a Covenant Life Church (CLC) pastor named “Grant” sent Dan a sermon on “bitterness”. Just who is this “Grant” fellow?
I’m assuming that ya’ll know Grant Layman’s connection to the Mahaneys. For those who don’t, here’s some important info I found at the CLC website:
http://www.covlife.org/about/pastors/grant_layman
“Grant Layman grew up in Sarasota, Fla., and was raised by “God-fearing parents who modeled the Christian life and love for the local church,” he recounts. Grant says he can remember “having an awareness of God’s claim on his life and a desire to serve him at an early age.”
Grant accepted an invitation in 1980 at age 19 to move to the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C., to live with his sister, Carolyn, and her husband, C.J. Mahaney. C.J. was then the senior pastor of Gathering of Believers, the precursor to what is now Covenant Life Church. Grant says the personal care and training he received by living in C.J. and Carolyn’s home for five years was invaluable preparation for ministry.”
Back to Dan’s story…
Dan,
just so you know, I’m here thinking of & praying for ya! I’m SO glad you are taking your pastor with you…remember “wise as serpents…” Take your time, don’t say much, and don’t be quick to agree to anything. Remember, SGM words have different definitions than they do in the real world.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Dan }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
I can’t put my life back together.
Today in Atlanta we have snow. Real snow. I’m looking out my kitchen window at the oak and maple trees with snow perched precariously on every branch and twig. The sun is up and its light is reflecting off the snow, like glitter spread on every surface. There is no wind and it stopped snowing hours ago, but the temperature is slowly rising and the melting snow is gently falling from the trees and overhead wires, making it appear to be snowing all over again.
My father had major surgery two weeks ago, my mother is currently in the hospital and may have to go to a nursing home, both of my grown children have some serious issues going on at the moment, and overall it has been a rough season for us. I wonder sometimes what else is going to happen. But this morning, as I sit here gazing at this stunning, peaceful scene, I realize that I worship the God of peace. And somehow there is peace.
There have been other dark seasons like this in my life, when my faith was tested. One of them was the aftermath of our PDI experience. I can easily remember and relate to Been There’s one line comment above. All I can say, Been There, is that those of us who post here have been where you are as well. Know that we are praying for you. I pray that the God of peace will be with you, helping you sort everything out and bringing rest and healing to your life. We are here if you need anything.
Gracie,
What a beautiful testament to God’s peace. I’m praying for your family today. Snow in Atlanta – how’s that for global warming???!!!
Been There,
Gracie is right. We have “been there”. My prayers are for you, today. The Lord is the Great I Am. He is Love. His heart is for you. There is a way through. Don’t loose hope! We are so glad you posted.
How do you go back and grasp your original salvation and delight in God, when what you have been taught is “God’s only church” has flushed you? I can’t remember the joy of my salvation anymore.
Been There,
It would be helpful to know if you are in sgm, or have left an sgm church, and the reasons for leaving. Can you tell us?
“Been There” – - we’ve ALL known the heartbreak you are feeling of being “flushed” but while it sounds trite, I say Go BACK to…your FIRST LOVE!
Rekindle the JOY of your salvation! And….in my opinion the best place to do that is the Psalms! instead of hearing a message about your sinfulness spend time with your Risen Lord, and hear what He thinks of you, and why He died for you!
I just searched the “joy of my salvation” and look what came up:
(Psalms 16:8-11 NKJV) I have set the LORD always before me; Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved. {9} Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices; My flesh also will rest in hope. {10} For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. {11} You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore http://www.seekgod.org/bible/joyofsalvation.html
And here’s another Child of God with a blog of encouragement:
http://your-dailyword.blogspot.....ation.html
If you prefer, open up your Bible! Start with Psalm 51, then go to Psalm 139, to see how much God cares about YOU – and how He made you in your mother’s womb.
Of course you are sad because some of God’s precious saints have rejected you. But GOD will never ever reject you! (See Romans 8)
Bottom line, dear saint, is that the ONLY place to go is BACK to Jesus, our Lord, our Comfort, and our Joy.
Been There- Me Too. : (
Aw, I think a couple of posters need some big hugs. Been There, Pam, there is reason to hope. How can we help you both?
Been There and Pam,
Praying for you tonight— That you will know and feel the Lord, the Redeemer …gently pick you up…and that words from the scriptures that have been special and life-giving to you in your life, will come up in your spirit and minister life and healing to you…that you will remember the truth of singing “Jesus loves me, this I know—for the Bible tells me so”…because God SO LOVED ‘Been There’ and ‘Pam’, that He gave His Son as a ransom for YOU……..and when you received Him,you stood up as the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus—You are Gods temple and Gods Spirit lives in YOU (I Cor 3:16).
Gods Truth is greater and more powerful than the heart-squeezing leaven of the pharisees–You are delivered from their hands —we in our family rejoice over this fact in our own lives and we rejoice with you—delivered from bondage of SGM and into His glorious Light anew…….day by day…step by step………..
Canary,I’m not too sure. I just can’t seem to be able to verbalize how I feel. When I try out a church or sit in a conversation about anything spiritual I just want to leave. I’m almost numb or something like that. I feel like all organized religion is not appealing to me at all right now. I know we shouldn’t be ruled by feelings but I’m so confused about this whole ordeal. After being brainwashed, I don’t trust anything. As I read here at Refuge and also Survivors, it brings up memories of what went on at my sgc. I guess I’m still processing. It’s just taking so long.
Pam (and Been There, if you are still reading),
I was so numb at one point (this was at least two years after leaving pdi, after the elation at being set free had worn off some), that I could not read my bible or worship or attend any church. I was so disillusioned with organized religion. I didn’t know who I could ever trust again. The depression and confusion nearly wiped me out. But it didn’t. Do you know why? Because the love of our wonderful, Living God wouldn’t allow it. He kept me, even during the darkest moments when I wondered if I would ever feel anything again, let alone joy. Guess what? I got through it. I know joy like never before. I know His love in a way pdi/sgm could never show me because they couldn’t see anything but my sin. Glory, glory to Jesus!
Here is the key: all the Lord asks of us is that we believe. He will do the rest. It is faith that pleases Him, not obeying leaders, keeping your house clean, confessing sin at care group, making it to every meeting…faith pleases God. All you have to do is believe.
Believe what, you might ask? Well, we start at the beginning. First, we believe that He IS. He is the great I AM. Then, we believe that He is LOVE. His love will never fail you, even if you cannot feel it or see it around you. He loves you undeniably, tenaciously, fiercely.
Then, finally, because He loves you, He will NOT FAIL YOU, NOT EVER. Believe this. Be like a child who deals only with the simple truths. Let Jesus’ Spirit take over. Simply believe. He will do the rest, I promise.
As Hebrews speaks of, there is a sabbath rest for every believer. Jesus said that, when we come to Him, we will find rest for our souls. Resting in Him must come before we can ever find the joy. I am sure that you hunger for that rest. Cease striving. Let it all go. Put all your concerns, questions, and confusion into His really big hands. Rest. Believe. Go back to the place where it was all so simple.
We are all here to support you through this. God’s amazing grace be with you as you go back to the simple truth -that if you believe in Jesus and confess His name, you will be saved.
I was demolished by the slander of an arrogant CGL to the pastors and was “removed” from participation a long, long time ago. In a process to get to the bottom of things that took years, I think the pastors realized what happened to me was unjust. They have spent years trying to put me back together again and I love them for it. But, I’ve been unable to put myself together. Now, they have given up and I am on my own. Still a shambles.
During the time I was “out” I cried out to God and repented of my idol of wanting to be a part of the dearest place on earth. I worked hard at letting go and accepting for reasons I didn’t understand…that God didn’t want me in the dearest place on earth. Now, I feel unworthy of sitting at His table. I feel rejected by God. I’m on the outside looking in. It affects me to this day.
I am in today and welcome to be there. But, my heart feels estranged from God. I feel like I am intruding. I feel guilty for wanting to partake in spiritual things…like I’m party crashing. I feel beaten and I don’t know how to become whole again.
Waters, so beautifully said!
Been There,
My question would be, why would sgm leadership be able to fix things when their very polity is what led to the injustice which happened to you? Has that polity changed? If not, how could they possibly be able to bring healing to you?
It might be time for you to receive some “outside” counsel. From what you say, this has gone on for years. Many of us struggled with our own understanding of God’s grace because sgm focused so much on sin, sin, sin. Does that go on where you are at? If so, it would explain why you feel like you are so unworthy to enter into the Lord’s presence.
Maybe it is time to look outside of sgm for the solution. Please pray over this. God does not want you to stay in a place of condemnation. No, No, No! His heart is for you to understand that His love is great, beyond measure. Read Waters above post again. It is so full of truth!
Please don’t be content with the status quo. There are many wonderful Christian counselors in other organizations who might be able to make sense of what you have been through. If, as you say, your pastors have given up on you, it is possible that they were never qualified to help you in the first place.
Praying for you!
Canary, Sorry I didn’t post last night. When I got up this morning and saw what you wrote, it gave me hope. It made me cry. Thank you so much! I think I’m trying to hurry the grieving process along because it is painful. I feel guilty that I’m not going to church . I feel guilty my 2 left at home don’t want to go either. Bethany has a wonderful blog about her journey through this. She’s even got a new site on facebook called Storm the Church. My son just doesn’t ask to go and if we visit a church, he’ll go. Mainly because he’s compliant. You don’t know how much your words meant to me this morning. It even caused my husband to open up about his pain in this process. But you gave me hope.
Keep praying!
Pam,
it’ll be ok. Over 2 years after leaving sgm, I am finally getting to the place where I *sometimes* want to go to church. And this is at the church that I went to shortly after I became a Christian and was baptized, The pastor knows about the error going on at the sgm church. I can talk to him, and he and the other pastor believe in the priesthood of believers (even women!) and they believe that the Holy Spirit can speak to me more than they can!!
But I still test everything and think about everything and don’t take everything at face value. I remember feeling like you do. Just cling to Jesus. You don’t have to go to church right now. Let Him lead you when the time is right. He is faithful.
“been there” – run away, there is no life where you are, that’s why you feel like you do. It may take time, but the Holy Spirit will lead you to the place of refreshing. You are not getting the living water that you need where you are now, you are dry and thirsty. Only you have been thirsty for so long and haven’t had water for so long, that you have given up like a listless starving child in Africa. Jesus wants to guide you to safety and to start to gently hold you and let life giving spoonfuls of cool water trickle in your parched mouth down your throat. Let Him help you.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ hugs }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Pam,
Your daughter, Bethany, has a very sweet spirit. Having family around you to work through the stuggles is invaluable. My two oldest have found a place down where they live. It is their first big step forward in finding a place to fellowship. They were old enough when we left pdi to be effected. The cool thing is that they have learned through the years to hunger for Jesus, to look for the truth. All of my family has, except my youngest daughter, on who’s behalf I seek the Lord constantly. So don’t worry about your kids. Pray for them. Let the Lord build His own relationship with their hearts. It is amazing to watch. Just look at Bethany!
I’m praying for you and your family, Pam. Like Ellie said, It’ll be okay!
I love when this happens. I just received this small encouragement from David Wilkerson’s Ministry. It couldn’t be more timely.
http://www.worldchallenge.org/en/node/7472
Thank you Defended and Waters for the direction and Canary and others for the encouragement and support. I will pursue the scripture Defended gave me. That was very helpful.
Does anyone know of any sort of Christian counseling within the vicinity of the mother church?
Canary, Ellie, Defended— I love reading all your encouragement coming forth and the scriptures you highlighted—Gods Word truly is like water for our wounds……….
Been There….as you dive into those scriptures,expect Gods light of truth to begin to remove the veil and bring definition and clarity to where you are at right now……
Someone here must know of solid Christian counselors in your area. I do not, though one
resource to help you locate some might be the Focus on the Family ministries website.
Pam and Been There……….Breathe in the breath of God and spirit of life…exhale religious deceptions and cords………..and KNOW, because you are sons and daughters of the Most High God…God WILL “show you the path of life; In His Presence IS fullness of joy…”
(PS 16:11)……..day by day…….step by step………on His lighted path………
Been There & Pam,
We do understand where you are, we been there too. (Still there to some degree.)
In my experience, only the Holy Spirit can bring the comfort, healing, and return to you, the Joy of Your Salvation.
So, as you enjoy the scriptures, we will pray that God reveals Himself to you in a new way, as only He can do. (Ps 119:18)
When your anxious thoughts multiply within you, His consolations will delight your soul. (PS 94:19) (He does so for me, EVERY TIME.)
-Defender
Defender and Waters and all who have been encouraging,
Thank you so much. I don’t feel so all alone. I also have a question. Have you heard the new sgm term for churches? ” Gospel Centers” What’s up with that?
Canary, thanks for sharing that post by David Wilkerson. We are attending his son’s church in Colorado Springs and finding it very refreshing.
Pam, Been There, I’m praying for you. There is life after SGM – one filled with grace, mercy, hope, love, fruitfulness, and everything you once desired and believed in.
Greg,
What is the name of the church? I have always admired D. Wilkerson’s deep faith. I did not know his son had a church in the area.
Been There,
Like Waters suggested, Focus on the Family would be a good place to start searching for a counselor. A friend of mine, whose story I am not free to tell (believe me, it is a horrific sgm leaving), went to a Baptist counselor and is doing very well today. All you need is someone who will listen without judging, give you good insights, and help you back on your feet again, to stand in grace. Check some of the churches in your area who are not related to sgm, and who walk in freedom. They may have counselors available.
I know this might seem like a daunting task, but as you take your first steps in finding help, the Lord will be right there to lead you. He desires you to find your joy in Him. He is FOR you!
Canary,
The Springs Church (thespringschurch.com), pastored by Gary Wilkerson is less than 1 year old and already up to 800 folks.
Pam,
“Gospel Centers”?
Give me a break.
Furtherest thing from Good News that I’ve experienced.
:::::::::::::::::insert rolling eyes emoticon here :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Been There, I’m in the neighborhood of the mothership myself. I actually found my EAP to be a good place to get some emergency (and free) counseling. The church I attend right now has a brochure in the lobby for Christian counselors–and when I called a while back they got back to me pretty quickly. I could get you the phone number if you like.
Dan,
It’s been a while, and I am wondering how things are going. Were you able to attend the baby dedication, Have you and your pastor met with the SGM “apostley person”?
Blessings
Dear friends,
Would you please pray for my sweet mother. She has many health issues and has taken a bad turn. Currently she is in ICU with a 50/50 chance of survival. Thanks for your prayers.
Gracie
I’ll be praying, Gracie.
Gracie – Praying for your mom and you – FSGP
Praying Gracie
Praying now Gracie.
Praying Grace
Oh Gracie, of course we’ll pray. Big, big hugs!
Praying, Friend. Please let us know how she is.
Praying!
May God bless you AND your mom, Gracie. Prayers for all of you.
Hi Pam, it’s been a while since you’ve posted. I hope everything is going well for you and your family. Hugs!
Gracie, Praying for your mom tonight
Hi Canary,
Glad to hear you found a church to go to on Easter. Not there yet. Still feeling a little lost and vacillating back and forth about what’s been truth and what’s sgm-ese. I’m hanging in there just not ready to step out there and commit to any organized church. Keeping in touch with a sweet friend who is also a refugee from sgm. She’s a real encourager and helps me not feel so alone.
Oh Pam, it is so discouraging to feel that way, I am sure. Please know that you are doing nothing wrong by taking your time. You may not feel that way, but I know I felt lots of condemnation for it and had people tell me how wrong I was. I knew I needed to hear God and not others so I’m glad I waited for His leading and not the advice of others.
Good words, Stunned. Pam, it is so good that you have a friend to walk with you during this time. Jesus is with you too, even if you can’t feel Him. His Spirit is going to show you what is true, and what stuff to throw away. Rest in Him.
Thanks, guys.
I’m also feeling a little blah because I’ve been in bed with the stomach bug. How long can this thing last? I’m not a very patient patient.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Gracie }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Pam }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Thanks Ellie !
My dear brothers and sisters,
I can’t express how thankful I am for your concern and prayers. My mother is battling on. The doctor who admitted her to the hospital Tuesday saw her again today. He was pleased with her improvement. She’s not out of the woods yet, but she is beating the odds. Those were his exact words.
We are currently building an addition on our house so that my mom and dad can come to live with us. Our hope is to have some happy years together with them.
Thanks be to God and to each of you. Your prayers and support mean everything.
Gracie
Gracie— Praising God with you and your family…..will continue to pray for your mom.
And that you will see your hope come to pass to enjoy your parents within the new addition to your home. *** Gods peace and enduring strength to you all***
That *is* good news, Gracie!
I echo Waters’ comment.
It touched me to read where you’re adding an addition to your home for your parents. You’re a blessing to so many.
Wonderful news, Gracie. I’ll keep praying as well…
So happy for you Gracie! Having been there taking care of my mom, remember to rest, take time for yourself so you can be ready for the stress. I loved the time I spent with my mom but did not realize how essential it is to take breaks. Spending time at the hospital and eating on the run and being upbeat for those we care for is very draining. Still praying!
Thanks for the update Gracie.
We are still praying.
Hello all. I have yet another good report of the kindness of our Lord. Today my mother is coming off of the feeding tube and the respirator. She is awake, alert, responsive, and getting downright ornery! Isn’t it wonderful!
Thank you again for your prayers and encouragement. Not only has the Lord given my mother more time with us, but there have even been some “come to Jesus” moments in the hearts of those in our family, as you can imagine. The result? Reconciliation and healing in some relationships within my family. For those who remember my comments awhile back regarding family members missing at our Christmas table, well… some will be back this year. Not all, but some. And we are REJOICING!
So my friends, I don’t know many of your faces and only a few of your names, but nonetheless, you are all dear to me. Thank you.
Wonderful news, Gracie. I am also so happy to hear about the changes in your family situation. You must be walking on air.
Thanks, Canary. I am!
Gracie – That is great news! Thanks for sharing it.
Thanks for the update Gracie.
We are praising God with you.
Thanks for the great update!
Gracie!
Rejoicing with you, my friend!!… for your Mom and the family relationships! God is amazingly kind and good, isn’t He?!!
good news Gracie!
Gracie——– So very thankful to hear your mom is making progress towards healing—Praise God!! And how wonderful to hear the news of your family—praying the Lord Himself, our Redeemer, will continue to knit family members hearts together and bring healing and restoration and joy as you all walk in His light…God is so so faithful…..
Hello Beloved in Christ:
My wife and I need your prayers.
We are both under it physically, but specially spiritually. I’m at my end with SGM as I have tried to remain hopeful for positive signs of change. Because I don’t fell the brunt of many heavy-handed shepherding tactics, I get lulled into thinking everything’s okay, and then I become aware of brethren who are NOT okay, and it weighs on me and struggle with this quandary all over again. I need refreshing, and freedom in Christ. I want wifey and I to feel that nature of being new creations in Him.
I write and beg and plead for change, always measuring what elements are personal wants and trying to come to terms with when I see glaring contradictions in our practices when seen in the light of scripture. All I can see in the natural is more sandbagging until nuisances like me go away. I have a lot of family in SGM, I want to stay with them and pretend all of the issues aren’t there.
But my conscience on matters is eating me alive. It’s never at peace unless it has a pure, unfiltered Jesus.
If I may be so bold as to request just prayers in your responses,if you do respond, and avoid any ”You need to…” statements. My wife and I are up to our gills in the you-need-tos. We’re up to our gills in performance-based faith (instigated largely by ourselves but worsened when we fear retribution on speaking our mind), up to our gills in everything, it seems. Apologies if this is a selfish request on the you-need-to comments.
We are weary, and just want Christ. Pray for us, and it is appreciated.
Love all of you & am praying for you,
John & wifey
Praying…will continue…
PK!!!… You and PD are in our prayers (always, my friend!!) and in our hearts… praying for you even now…
Carole
PK-you need to…..
…just let us pray for you.
pk….will pray
We will be praying for you and your wife.
PK – interceding for you in this – FSGP
Thanks everyone.
–jw
Praying too, PK and wifey…
Praying for you to be washed in the Lovingkindness and Mercy of God.
May the Holy Spirit comfort you and reveal His renewing of your spirit and minds.
And most of all may you both experience His peace.
Love you Brother
~D
“I want wifey and I to feel that nature of being new creations in Him.”
PK. this is exactly what I will pray for you and PD.
Blessings,
Gracie
PK and PD…….so effected by your prayer request…….praying,interceeding,battling for you both………Father,hold these weary warriors in Your arms while the saints interceede on their behalf……..our love to you both……..
Canary, Defender, Gracie, Waters & everyone so far…
THANK YOU for those prayers. They are deeply felt and encouraging.
–jw
PK,
While praying for you yesterday, I had a sense of gratefulness for the inspiration you have been to us all. Just wanted you to know that you’ve meant a lot to the folks on the Refuge, giving us wisdom and balance. Now it is our turn to be a strength for you and your wife! Will continue to pray for you both this week…
PK,
I’m impressed with what I do know of the grace that you have shown in working through this issue. I want to encourage you that the spritual desires you have are genuine and from the Lord. I am proaying He wil fullfill them for you and your wife in His way and His timing.
Gracie,
just saw the post on your Mom today…yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!
Ornery is GOOD!!!
pk ~ praying, too.
Oh, PK, on another page I just left you a “you need to”. I’m so sorry. I hadn’t read here first and had no idea exactly what you were going through. Please forgive me.
Praying you are well and God’s love leads you.
PK, how bout a “thank you” instead of a “you need to.” You have definitely impacted this family, whom you don’t know, with your stand. Our lives were changed in significant ways because of your obedience to seek the Truth and we are grateful for you.
…And I’m praying rest for you and your wife in Jesus, and know He will be pleased to give it. Blessings
PK and PD, Hugs and love to you both! It’s a long road out but it can be done. I know it’s hard for you because of the family situation and the long standing relationships. It was very hard for us when we left because our best friends (and children’s best friends) abandoned us. You have a harder decision because of the family issue. Our God is a God of miracles. I will be praying for you both and for the power of God to be at work in your lives and the lives of your family!
Canary: Your prayers are felt! Thank you.
Greg: Thank you. What a compliment and what an encouragement!
Ellie: Thank you!
Stunned: No worries whatsoever. There are days I put chips (like the no-you-need-to chip) on my shoulder when I shouldn’t. Your prayers are appreciated. Once again, no worries.
Hope…I am speechless at that compliment. Not sure what to say but “you’re welcome,” and “thank YOU,” for your prayers.
Well, dear friends, I must inform you that after a lovely Mother’s Day with my family, my sweet mother took a turn for the worse and peacefully passed from this world into the arms of Jesus. I am so very grateful and so very saddened at the same time. As you know, the last few weeks with her have brought changes in our family, chances to make amends and begin again. I will be forever thankful to the Lord for those redemptive opportunities. But, the addition we’ve almost completed will have one less occupant, and I grieve for my loss and my dad’s. She was one of my best friends and I love her so dearly.
The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
Oh Gracie, Lifting up you and your family in prayer..and that underneath you all,the Comfort of the Fathers everlasting Arms will uphold you all……..and may our Savior Redeemer continuously knit the hearts of your family together in His unfailing love……
Please receive my condolences! May the Lord be with you and your family in this time of mourning.
Gracie,
I could just cry. My heart is broken for you. I know how much you will miss your Mom. How wonderful that you spent one more Mother’s Day with her. My friend, I know that she is in the most wonderful place with our Lord, but that doesn’t remove the grief you feel. I pray that God’s comfort and strength will be upon you and your family.
I’m so sorry, Gracie.
Gracie… I am so very sorry. Praying for you and your family… I love you, my friend!
Carole
Gracie,
Having recently lost my Mom, I know how hard this is. Praying for you.
Sono Harris has only a few weeks to live. They found colon cancer that has spread to her liver and other areas. Let’s put aside the differences and pray for her and her family.
Oh, dear Gracie, I’m so so sorry for your loss and for your father and family. What a wonderful blessing to be able to say that your mother was your friend. It must be an awful loss. I am praying for you all.
Pam, thank you for letting us know about what the Harris family is going through. How sad for them. We will be praying.
Could I ask who Sono Harris is?
Josh Harris’s Mother and Greg Harris’s wife
praying along side with them! Totally agreed.
Thanks, Pam.
Just wanted to stop in to thank each of you for your sympathy and prayers during these last two weeks. Our family is hurting still, but the Lord is faithful and is seeing us through. Your remarks here and sincere expressions of sorrow for us have touched my heart.
Thank you,
Gracie
Gracie,
I’m glad we could be here to pray for you. God’s strength and peace be with you. Love, Canary
Gracie,
Thinking of you today, and praying. (hugs)
The prayer part:
I am thankful to God for these verses, which seem to sum up what’s going on with PD and me now (pray that Protestant Dame [PD] and I graft this into ourselves, and get it into our bloodstream):
Do not call to mind the former things,
Or ponder things of the past.
Behold, I will do something new,
Now it will spring forth;
Will you not be aware of it?
I will even make a roadway in the wilderness,
Rivers in the desert.
The beasts of the field will glorify Me,
The jackals and the ostriches,
Because I have given waters in the wilderness
And rivers in the desert,
To give drink to My chosen people.
The people whom I formed for Myself
Will declare My praise. (Isaiah 43:18-21, NASB)
And now for the praise part (this comes from both PD and me):
The LORD is my shepherd,
I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside quiet waters.
He restores my soul;
He guides me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil, for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
You have anointed my head with oil;
My cup overflows.
Surely goodness and lovingkindness will follow me all the days of my life,
And I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever. (Psalm 23, NASB)
–pk
The 23rd psalm was my Mom’s favorite psalm that she knew by heart. We used it at her funeral in Nov. It was so comforting to all of us.
awwwwwwww Gracie {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
how you doing, sweetie?
Thanks, Ellie. An Ellie cyber hug is just what I needed today. I am doing okay. One day at a time. Jesus is among us.
Please pray for me. I have a meeting this week with a man who attended the SG church I did. He has been gone for about 2 years and has gone to some trouble to track me down. He wants to talk about what happened.
These meetings take a huge toll on me. For those of you who have been there or are there, you know what I mean.
TIA,
Former SG Pastor
God bless you, FSGP, for your willingness to meet with this fellow. Praying now…
Former… definitely not a “fun time”, but hopefully God will use this time to bring clarity and answers to this man. You are doing a very good thing!
Praying for you now and this week…
Former SG Pastor,
Praying, God restores what the locusts have eaten, in this man, and in yourself.
May your time together be full of the Love of God.
His will be done.
Defender
FSGP, it’s a privilege to join you arm in arm, asking for Abba’s love to flow unobstructedly as you share your heart to this man that has come back into your life.
FSGP,
Hey there. I don’t know if you are worried for the reasons I think you might be, but if you are, I hope what I am about to say is an encouragement.
After reading on here and at sgmsurvivors, I discovered how things went behind the scenes at SGM. Things us “regular people” like me knew nothing about- like reporting homegroup attendance to the pastors or behind the scenes discussions about things people shared in homegroup that they thought were between them and the few people they chose to share with. I found out other things from the ex-leaders on here and most of them were things that I considered to be bad and lacking a great deal of integrity and love.
I felt many things. Betrayal was one of them. Anger. Righteous anger. Self-righteous anger. Hurt. Relief (now some of the crazy making finally made sense.) A myriad of emotions. I got quite upset with some of the ex leaders that post here. I was stunned by some of the behind the scenes stuff that amounted to (in my opinion) selling another out for the sake of being a “better” sheep, but a sheep none the less. (Sheep being used in a negative connotation.) I was enraged when I realized that many of us on here had lowered their own standards, integrity and morals in order to look good in the eyes of the SGM leadership. I’m not talking about the “ugly” kind of sin like sleeping around and taking drugs. I’m talking about the uglier kinds of sin like not speaking 100% truth that would protect their fellow church members from harm. Not standing up for those in their care, no matter the circumstances.
I got good and angry and good and ugly with a few people here. I didn’t name any names, I was just stunned with some of what was coming out. I was reeling. I couldn’t believe that the people I had loved and supported would betray my confidences like that and that this was common practice in many of the SGM churches. Again, no one here by name. I can’t even remember what I said and I didn’t say it to anyone specifically. More like a general, “Wait, you all mean to tell me that you participated in this crap and were able to sleep at night?! So it was people like you who hurt me when I didn’t even know it and you all supposedly had the integrity to be homegroup leaders when it turns out the homegroup leaders were often the ass kissers who lacked the freaking integrity to stand up and became more like Saul’s who were at best standing by and watching the coats of the dudes throwing the rocks and approving of this bs?!” But I don’t remember specifics of what I said.
But you know what I DO remember? I remember the love.
I remember the care.
Here I was hurting and bleeding all over the people I was angry with. They weren’t even the ones who had specifically done it to me. But they CARED. They LOVED me. Jim and Carole and the whole lot of them- they loved me. They didn’t defend themselves one iota, though they may have had every right to. They said they were sorry when not one of them were even the ones who had hurt me. But they still said they were sorry that they hadn’t taken better, more gentle care for those who were in their paths. Their love turned my anger into tears. Deep gashes that were oozing from my side were being slathered with the balm of the love of God and true repentance of the saints. Not a single one of them had ever hurt me individually, but they were repenting of their own insensitivities in the times they could have been more vocal on the behalf of others. (Please correct me if I’m misrepresenting ya’ll here. I don’t mean to.)
They LISTENED to me, when I was striking out in an anguishing gutteral cry. It felt as if they sat beside me and cried with me instead of judging me for hurting. Instead of trying to explain to me WHY I shouldN’T be hurting. Instead of defending themselves or justifying themselves. They let themselves get past their own pain and they saw my pain. And they let themselves love this angry, hurting woman. They were beautiful.
And it has made such a difference.
I don’t know if I could have ever trusted any of them again had they responded differently.
I don’t think I could have ever come by here but to point my finger and yell at them that they were just as bad as the system they were calling for change in. But they weren’t. Because they had seen error and they were genuinely, truly sorry for any little or big part they played in it. (Again, guys, if i am misrepresenting you, please speak up.)
They did much to bring me healing that day/week.
And I am grateful to each of them that spoke up and addressed me. And I am grateful to each of them that kept quite and didn’t start hurling rocks back at me.
They were beautiful.
And I am grateful.
I pray that if you find yourself in that situation when you meet with this person, you will have as much grace and care and love with him as the people here have had with me.
And if that’s not the scenario that will play out when you meet, if it’s on more of those cases where he’s coming to tell you how much you suck for leaving SGM, in that case, man, I’m sorry you’ll have to go through that again. That stinks. I’ll be praying you don’t slug him. (If you’re tempted in the same way I am.
)
Hope it goes well and let us know how it went for you.
Stunned
FSGP,
Praying !
Even after all these years, if someone in leadership came to me with a contrite heart it would mean the world to me.
D.B., I second your above post.
Stunned, you are a wonderful person.
Ellie, I hope your summer is going well.
FSGP, looking forward to hearing it went better than you expected and didn’t leave you drained.
Pastor Former ;o) we’re with ya! Standing in prayer and waiting/hoping for a fruitful peaceful report, if you have one. Or whatever you wanna say.
Friends -
The meet-up went well – no ambushes! We had a lot of positive contact when we were both part of SGc and he is eager to reignite a relationship.
Surprised by God’s grace,
Former SG Pastor
Praise God!!
FSGP-awesome!
Stunned-I had no idea. What I think I was doing was reminding myself to love the jerkyest SGM’r, because I was one. Now I’m just a jerky blogger
I think that I was also trying to repent to those at my ex sgc, who aren’t particularly interested in hearing from me. I’m the one who is now stunned. I still don’t understand this blog.
Your words will keep us open for a while ( I have no idea how long). I’ve been praying (again) this week about shutting down. I even found the u2 song I’d use to say goodbye.
Stunned–I love you.
You are a gift.
FSGP,
I rejoice with you!!!!
Jim, let me save you some time in prayer. The answer is no. No, it is NOT time to shut down this blog. God told me so. (OK, so He didn’t tell me, but there is much great work happening here. I for one am blessed by it and don’t think it’s time to shut down.)
I’m glad my rambling confession of my sin and hurt had some good fruit. I guess you just don’t know how powerful your words and this blog can be. (Yes, you were one of the ones whose words were gracious and loving- I can’t believe you didn’t see what you and the others did- I thought it would have been so abudantly clear to everyone but I get that it wasn’t.)
So to sum things up, no Honey-chile/Friend/Brother, no, my vote is please don’t shut this puppy down.
PS. I’m guessing it’s a lot more stressful to run than many of us think. Is there anything we can do to make it easier on you and Carole?
Rejoicing with you, FSGP!
RT & Canary, thanks. Right back at ya, Chickies.
Stunned-you can try to talk PK into taking it off my hands
PK-ay… oh PKayyyy. Have you thought of taking on a blog lately?
Friends,
Missus Former ain’t doing so great post-SG, spiritually. More of a delayed reaction compared to this writer. She recently talked about how she can’t listen to the old SG music; it evokes too many memories of things gone bad. Has little desire to darken a church door.
Appreciating your prayers,
Former SG Pastor
Oh maaaan. Prayers, for sure, for Mrs. Former.
And theres lots of us girls here who would be glad to just nod, knowingly, or encourage her if she was wanting some. The truth of the matter is that there IS a sad deprogramming and decompression needed by all of us in my less-than-humble opinion.
The music thing is completely understandable. I kind of vascillate there myself somewhat. When I hear Chris L’s voice singing “how high and how wide” is God’s love for us on “Chosen Treasure” I celebrate that truth yet grieve for how that is NOT the nature of the worship songs we heard as we were leaving. “Grace upon Grace” ? yeah, no.
anyway, I want to invite Mrs. Former to email anytime, or just know that she is being lifted up in caring prayers.
She’ll be ok, she’s just shedding some of the old stuff. As long as she has time to spend with Jesus without pressure, the Holy Spirit will guide her into where He wants her.
There’s lots of good worship music out there to listen to, and if that’s even too much right now, God can use other kind of music to draw her to Himself – classical, celtic, folk, etc. Spending time in nature and community & cultural activities helps, too.
Just trust the Holy Spirit and let HIM guide her, no pressure is best.
Former, I think SGM affects a lot of people that way – I’ll be praying.
It might help for her to chat with Canary. Canary has a gift for ministering to women. Her contact info is listed on the blog.
Pastor Former,
The Missus is not alone. If it weren’t for the Holy Spirit, I’d still be curled up in a fetal position under the covers on Sunday mornings. He promised never to leave or forsake us. For a while, He just curled up there with me and held me in His everlasting arms as my heart and mind went numb. I wanted nothing to do with church or the music I’d once loved. After a time, He took me by the hand and led me, blindfolded, to places I’d never dreamed of.
When it comes to music, fabulous stuff was written way before SGM, outside of SGM, and will continue. Listen to good stuff, wherever it comes from, whichever genre it represents, if it ministers to you. If it doesn’t — change the station!
Y’all are in our prayers — and in His arms.
FSGP-I will pray for the missus. I too, did not want to listen to music (worship) or go to a fellowship anywhere. it was months before i was even willing to visit other fellowships. It has been over a year and i am still suffering from the side effects of leaving. It is not as bad as it was when i first left but still feel marked. There are men and women who love the Lord who will help her heal from all that has happened, but for me it was the Word and the Holy Spirit restored to pre-emminence in my life that helped me to start walking down the road to wholeness. Have faith in Jesus!! He brought her out to be the woman he always intended!!!!
FSGP
I am right there with your wife and so is my daughter. I wish there was a place we could all meet face to face and support each other. This site and Canary’s site help alot but I still can’t bring myself to listen to many songs not just SGM. I hope I’m not scaring you. I’ve been gone about 18 months and it’s still hard. I just got invited by a friend to go to her church’s women’s retreat. I was touched that she thought of me but that is the last thing I want to do at this point. I feel like my goldens do when they go to the vet. I feel so “unspiritual” yet wanting to feel “spiritual’. I’ll be praying for your wife. As a side note, my daughter was told at a Celebration in Indiana, Pa. through a prophetic word that “she was seen as a beautiful flower in a desert. That she would stand out and be a mighty influence.” I don’t think the person saying this thought my daughter would be in the position she is now (out of sgm). She’s using that prophecy on her blog. I have to be honest and say I’m not sure how I feel about prophesy but it’s almost amusing to see how she’s using it to tell the truth about sgm.
Oh, man, that still happens to me but it has grown less painful.
If she wants to email to talk with someone, I am available (just let me know she’s Mrs. FSGP or some sort of notice so it doesn’t find its was into my junk mailbox.) db604406@wcupa.edu
Square Peg, your “fetal position” is how I felt but it took about two years to set in. I guess the first few years were exciting because of the new found freedom.
FSGP, what is happening to your wife is to be expected. Love and grace plus the Holy Spirit will get her through. I still don’t understand what true worship means, or maybe I find more of that in the quiet. The Lord is going to be faithful to turn this experience into good for Mrs. Former. It just takes time. All us ladies are here if she wants to talk. I’ll be praying especially for her this week!
Because you both were involved in leadership, Mrs. Former might struggle more because she was in more deeply. Wonder if Mrs. Irv can help? Irv was a former pastor as well. Maybe there are more specific problems that they would both understand better. I am so grateful that my husband and I were only within the deeper “circle” for a short time – the damage too our lives would have been much greater if we had stayed. Those of you who saw more might need a different sort of counsel than those of us who knew instinctively that something was wrong but couldn’t prove anything. Just a thought. God bless!
Kindred,
Thanks for the compliment. You have been such a big help to others on this blog. Just wanted you to know that.
I wish there was a way that we could have a video “chat” with several people, that would be neat!
FSGP,
I remember how my personal worship was shut down after our PDI experience, and I vividly remember the day I realized He had brought me through and I could worship freely again. Praying for your dear wife.
Mrs FSGP – Mrs. Irv would be glad to visit but she is probably not as gracious as I am. She (unfortunately sometimes) always tells the truth. Let us know how we can stand with you of if you would like make contact with Mrs. Irv. We do feel your pain but also the excitement for you because there is life and life abundantly after SGM / PDI.
Video Skype is outstanding. I work with my partners in different parts of the world on a daily basis. And it is cheap —- well like it is free — better than cheap.
I know that after we left (after being involved for 16 or so years) it took awhile to be able to, much less want to, worship. Go to church? No way! But in time (and each one of us has a different time table) I was able to start worshiping God again. It was through drawing closer to Him on a personal basis and immersing myself in His Word that He was able to heal me and bring me to a place of worship. It was a new and deeper worship than before. Now I was motivated to worship Him for who He was and what He had done for me–not because the music or the band or worship team. I could let myself go and immerse myself in Him. I could worship the One who made me and loved me more than any one else–no matter what I had done or said.
Give her time, encourage her, love her. God will finish the good work He has begun in her.
I recommend she listen to whatever music that touches her. I love Celtic music, it stirs me deep in my soul. But, I am part Irish!
Friends–
What is most interesting in all the SGM stories is this identical thread, especially among us sisters: realize abuses at SGM, get up the courage to leave SGM, curl up in fetal position on Sunday mornings, viscerally react to SGM music, fear leadership in other worshiping bodies.
This is more important than many realize. To have that sort of emotional reaction? Just not the norm in your typical “just not the church for me” church-leaving.
When we visited SGM churches, (I’m an apostate Mormon, Smith-family, high cult-radar settings), the hair on my neck stood up. The music seemed too designed to me, too intent on taking me somewhere emotionally. (I prefer very contemporary music, old hymns, so it wasn’t the style–rabbit trail: have y’all investigated Indelible Grace music?).
We are told to gather together for worship. Church offices are described in the Word. However we interpret that is fine.
But look what happens to many post-SGM. Gathering together, trusting elders, worshiping with music becomes terrifying.
SGM supporters, open your eyes. WHO IS GIVING THE CUP OF WATER, AND WHO IS CAUSING THE LITTLE ONES TO SIN???
Mark 9:40 ff: I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward. And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.
I see a dripping ladle in the hands of many on this site. But I’m sensing a millstone approaching for some pastors. What have you done to cause the beloved of Jesus to be so hurt and afraid of his own people?
Shame. Shame.
Traveling Girl, your comment made me think of this…
I have a dear, dear friend that I love to worship with whenever I get the chance. He’s an older gentlemen, not “showy” at all, very humble and quiet in spirit; but it’s OBVIOUS he is in total communion with the Lord and in a state of worship. (Of course, worship is more than just song, but I’m referencing song.)
He worships with his eyes closed – always – never an exception; even when it’s a new song and he doesn’t know the words – he will just listen. I mentioned that I observed that particular trait about him one time and he looked at me amused. He told me that if he looked at the worship team he would actually be distracted from the Lord and caught up in all that was taking place on stage.
Funny, we now call it a stage…we used to call it a “choir loft.” I grew up in a church with a choir in a choir loft. I never remember being distracted by the choir – they were all dressed alike in choir robes, singing beautifully (and spirited), holding their little black binders of music sheets.
I love my current church, and the ”praise and worship team,” but I do find myself being distracted. I know there’s a difference between ”corporate” worship and personal worship, but somehow corporate worship seemed more focused when the “worship team” wasn’t ”front and center”, on a ”stage”, in a kind of ”performance” mode.
(Btw, I’m NOT anti-contemporary Christian music. I have a CD case full of it in my car. However I do love the old hymns, as well.)
RT…a BIG amen!!
FSGP…I don’t want to say much because It will quickly expose who I m. But the many days I spent worshipping you your and you fa., where some of sweetest to these days. She had a very abvious Lord for God that many “gleaned” from her as well as me. I wept, as you wept when you guys sat in the back of the church to “worship” Can you just tell Sue thie one thing? She will never live long enough to talk to all the believe all the people who dearly and respected her.She had a kind warm spirit that was only surpassed by her Ferverant Love for the Lord. I love her miss her so much, as do thousands of other Ladies. So do not listen to what the enemy may speak to you this week, but Prepare you and eyes to be filled with the sweet truthfullness of His Heart toward. You are so dearly loved my Sis.
Just posting to get new comments in my e-mail!
FSGP said, “Missus Former ain’t doing so great post-SG, spiritually. More of a delayed reaction compared to this writer. She recently talked about how she can’t listen to the old SG music; it evokes too many memories of things gone bad. Has little desire to darken a church door.”
Former, please pass on to her that I STILL can’t listen to the music, 9 years after I left. I doubt I EVER will be able to. As far as darkening church doors, there is plenty of darkness in churches. No need for her to add to it.
No, seriously, it took me over 5 years to be able to start attending a church regularly. I spent a lot of time doubting that it was God who was leading me to stay away. I was SURE that it was somehow my disobedience, rebellion or sin. Now I look back and can say with 100% surety that it WAS God that kept me away. He wanted me all to himself for that time. Was the best thing that could have happened. Best. Hand’s down.
There is a small book that was used (just a bit) in that time period. Good Girls Don’t Change the World. One sentence has stuck with me for years and God used it to minister to me over and over again. Just a suggestion if she is ever looking for something to read.
Give her lots of your love and remind yourself and her that it is NOT all about the local church but about God loving you and you loving Him.
Good words for Mrs. Former, Stunned. I’ll tweet to that!
Stunned said: He wanted me all to himself for that time.
Ya know isn’t that the truth every day? He really wants us for Himself! Stunned, you are so sensitive to the Holy Spirit, so compassionate in your posts. You are wonderfully encouraging.
I pray Mrs. Former is as blessed and encouraged as I am, in reading of your process of deliverance and liberty.
Um, ya’ll make me weep.
Lol. go ahead and weep. You are precious!
But ya know, that’s the thing. I think we can really forget -and I think SG.M likes to suppress it as much as possible – that ALL that really matters is Jesus. That’s ALL that really matters!! And He is worthy to have us to Himself for a season! Think how much work – ministry, comfort, care – you needed to get put back together after all the SG Damage?!
Who said “love God and do as you please” ??? Isn’t that the truth?!
I mean, loving God is all that matters! Who doesn’t try as hard as they can to please, and honor the One we love the most? And shoot, we even need God’s help to do that!
No leader, no caregroup, no event, no person or anything should ever try or succeed in coming between me and my Jesus. And it took me a long time to even see how I had let it happen, not to mention seeing how much I needed Him back on His throne and needed him to help me jump out of the pot (as in the frog in the pot).
Stunned,
Some of your posts have made old rough & gruff Defender wipe a tear.
So I guess that’s back at ya, eh?
;>}
Rough and gruff? I’ve always thought of you as a great big, tender hearted teddy bear. I bet your wife would back me on this one.
Both of you are so very encouraging. After a couple of decades of being told things by my ex, things that I now recognize as his tools of manipulation (things like, ‘You make really bad first impressions’) and things by my beloved church (again, things that fit into their own agenda instead of into truth) I am having to learn to re-see myself through (hopefully) the eyes of truth. So thank you. I think we could all use people who show us the truth in a kind, loving way.
Stunned
Hi folks:
PD, me and my mother and the whole fam need your prayers, this a.m. We lost my aunt very early this morning…while her passing his a blessing in many ways (the pain of the mortal coil is gone), it’s still incredibly adverse on my mother, who was close to her sister.
All prayers are appreciated.
–pk
oh PK, & PD – thanks be to God our Father that He is so near and tender with the broken hearted and grieving. Praying for your family that you can celebrate life, yet grieve with freedom and love.
Praying for comfort for and your family PK & PD.
PK and Family,
I’m so sorry. It is so hard for those who have to stay behind when a loved one get’s to go home early, even when we are able to see it rightly.
“The term is over: the holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning.”
And as He spoke, He no longer looked to them like a lion; but the things that began to happen after that were so great and beautiful that I cannot write them. And for us this is the end of all the stories, and we can most truly say that they all lived happily ever after. But for them it was only the beginning of the real story. All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and the title page: now at least they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before.” c.s. lewis
You are in my prayers.
Chuck
Add mine to the others <3
May our God the Giver of all comfort be with you and your family. You are in my prayers this evening.
ox
Praying! I lost my best friend, my Mom this year. It really is hard on those left behind. But it’s only for a time till we see them again. I like to think they are free from these earthly bodies and are without the pain endured here on earth.
PD and PK — Receive our warm condolences on her passing. She was such a dear lady and suffered so many years they can’t be counted. Please relay our love to all your family and especially your mom and your uncle.
I’m so sorry, y’all. Death is the enemy. Praise to our Saviour–death is vanquished!
But so much pain. I am sad for you.
PK and PD……..Praying the Lord will continue to enfold you and your family
in His everlasting Arms………
Generally, the praise part off prayer and praise is directed Heavenward but I just want to thank God for PK and PD. They are doing a fantastic job of moderating this board and I am sure that entails more work than the rest of us know.
You are both gracious, intelligent, and discerning and I want to acknowledge and honor those things.
Everyone:
Thank you for your prayers, kind words, and encouragement. I am appreciative more than words can say.
–pk
Will definitely be praying
Thank you, Azaziah!
–pk
PK and PD, warm hugs from a very sympathetic Canary…
PK and PD, I can’t read anything in this thread before RT’s post from yesterday. Is there anyway we can see what people are responding to?
Stunned
Hi Stunned:
If you look at the last comment on this page, beneath the comment (and before “Leave a Reply”) is a green text link labeled “<< Older Comments.” We’ve now paged the comments so they load up much faster.
–pk
Thank you, PK! I’ll go there now.
Oh PD and PK, please pass on to your mother that so many are praying for her. I’m so sorry for her and your loss.
Stunned
Sorry for your family’s loss, PD and PK. Your family will be in my prayers as well.
Thank you, Gracie.
Thank you, everybody.
–pk
PK and PD, I too am so sorry for your loss. I am praying for all of you!
Thank you, Fred.
–pk
It has been a long time since I ‘ve read anything on this site; I recall when I first found Refuge; Our Lord in his comapssion led me here to show me truth; the ugly truth about SGM. It was hard and painful; but I am free at last. Thank God Almighty I’m free at last. I am no longer “needin hope” for I have HOPE, in Jesus Christ my Lord. He loves me, adores me and calls me his own.
I formally left my SGM church this year. I am settled in a church and taking my time getting aquainted with people.
I feel a freedom in worship, in my devotional time, in prayer, in listening to the pastor on sunday mornings. I get up on Sunday mornings and look forward to going. A year ago I wouldn’t have thought that possible. All things are possible with God. For those who are new here or if you’re a frequent visitor…there is HOPE in abundance.
Thanks to this site…don’t ever stop being here…what you do is important, it helped me to find courage to leave and to move on. Yes, it is without relationships that were important to me; but I found something more, The Lord is my friend I shall not want; He has led me to this quiet place…” My hope and prayer is that all who enter here will find the Saviour who loves, the Friend who never leaves…look upward, he’s waiting to heal your hurts and give you HOPE.
God Bless.
I HAVE HOPE!
To my friend, and brother or sister in Jesus Christ, who was “needin Hope”:
God bless you!! I haven’t been on the Refuge in a while myself. But you and your JOY and your precious freedom in Christ have me rejoicing for you and with you.
Jesus knows where you need to take it one step at a time and HE is willing to lead you, and walk alongside you. He is faithful and True, and has brought you into the fields of green pastures, where His yolk is easy and His burden is light! Hallelujah, you have entered, once again, into the joy of your salvation! Isn’t it grand?!
God is good – all the time. And its wonderful to remember that and enjoy His Goodness and mercy, all our days!
thank you for sharing. You have lifted my heart.
Dear Hope-filled!,
YOU are such a blessing!! The sound of liberty in your ‘voice’ is so wonderful— we are ever so excited and thankful to see you walking forward, your hand securely enclosed in the One who rejoices over you!!
Thankyou, so much, for sharing your new-found joy and security in the love of Jesus
With much love to you, — Waters and Family
Hope-filled, so good to hear from you, and that you are doing well in the Lord. Ain’t freedom grand????
Dear Hope-filled,
Thanks for stopping by and letting us know how you are doing!! It is so encouraging to hear! I’m so happy to hear that you know what a FRIEND you have in JESUS!!
It was good to read the words of familiar bretheren and I rejoice in the Lord that you were refreshed! I am so excited to share all that the Lord is doing since my departure from SGM.
One of the most blessed things about the new church my family and I attend; while it promotes small groups there are several studies going on at the same time! It’s really cool…Imagine that…leadership not dictating and everyone having to study the same thing. How refreshing that was for us!!
Again, just another way in which we feel and are experiencing first hand FREEDOM! Oh what joy and relief!
Recently, I needed to miss being in small group because of a family situation where serving my family meant that I would miss my Friday night group; the response from the leaders of the group was…and I quote…”I understand completely” WOW! No lectures, no guilt trip, just compassion and love.
For those who may be shell shocked, hurting and feeling like you will never, ever find another place to worship, there are many wonderful churches out there. With caring and HUMBLE leaders. When I see our pastor enter the pulpit, I have to smile…I know I will hear the Word and be blessed, challenged and uplifted…that is worth searching for my brothers and sisters. It truly is…
Looking forward to Sunday service and thankful for the liberty and healing I have found in Christ Jesus!
In His Love I rest
I have HOPE
In the near future I will be meeting with family that still are involved with SG. There is a sense of foreboding even as I write this. One family member attends an SG church sporadically, around 10-12 times a year. Another family member (along with spouse and children) are deeply entrenched in SG. My departure from SG has coincided with great distance in relationships that once were close with this latter relative.
The SGer once pronounced (predicted? “prophesized”?) that I would return to a pastoral staff position in SG because that was where I had greatest fulfillment. Not bloody likely! I spent about 5-10 minutes in a terse, concise explanation of why I left SG, the pastoral abuse, staff malfeasance, “apostolic” biblical illiteracy and overall incompetence … and that was that. The family member chose (and choses) to believe the SG lie (and sacrifice a relationship of over 4 decades, one that I greatly cherished).
This pretty much blows.
Yep,
Former SG Pastor
FSGP,
I am very sorry to hear of yet another loss of a relationship. SGM is a sect that brings division to the Body, not unity. It is so hard to loose a friendship that has lasted so long, especially within family. To quote a cliche, “I feel your pain.” Tweey hugs from a sympathetic Canary
Pretty much? It blows.
Former, I have such a soft spot in my heart for you and your family, especially you and your wife. I’m so sorry for how your offering and your gift have been trampled on by a crappy, crummy system, and the people who inhabit it.
I pray that if you do find God’s pleasure in it, that you could someday be healed from the scars and wounds enough to minister and pastor <u>elsewhere</u> but as you say, not blood likely inside the sg walls! Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we’re free at last!
As for the family members who choose such bondage? Who can figure that one?!
Canary, Stunned, Defended – Thanks. I do appreciate you all. – FSGP
Update on my #22 -
The visit has come and gone. The adult SGMers treated me pretty much as expected. I was one of 2 or 3 dozen people at the gathering and recieived the prorated amount of attention, 2 or 3 sentences worth. This was vastly different from the fellowship and camaraderie we shared in the SG days. But at least it was not confrontationall.
A SG alpha male was asked to bless the meal which he interpreted as a call to “open in prayer”. The influence of CJ was maifest in the parrotted and hackneyed cliiches. I refused to close my eyes because it wasn’t prayer, it was preaching with your eyes closed. I caught one of the alpha’s young’uns with open eyes, repeatedly. I’m sure that later he bore testimony of how far I have slipped.
The after party was most interesting. The SGers had managed to irritate a good many of the revelers. First, the CJ-ites arrived waaaaay late, as in hours. This sin was compounded because they never confessed it. Next, one of the young’uns pompously and self-righteously took it upon his/herself to correct the converstations occurring among the true adults and elderly.He/she particularly nettled a woman who was 50+ years senior to the young’un. Oh well, out to the mouth of babes. Finally, some of the revelers sported body art (tattoos, piercings, and such). These outward manifestations were noted and declared aloud by the Sinfree SGers as sure signs of pagan damnation. “Why yes, we DO attend a Sovereign GRACE church … why do you ask?”
All told, I emerged unscathed and giddy that I was out of the shadow of Sov Gr Miseries.
They never said good bye, I never noticed they left,
Former SG Pastor
FSGP, part relief, part what the heck?! Sad to see SGMers still living out the same testimony to unbelievers that they always have. I absolutely cringe when I think of how many people outside of SGM that I offended while I was in SGM. ouch.
Me too, Stunned. I sure do repent of my own arrogance and insensitivity for those times.
FSGP, I’m glad you made it out unscathed. I hope your dear wife fared okay. I remember shortly after we were “counseled” to leave our PDI church with part of my family still very active and entrenched there, I too had to attend an important family gathering. The wound was so fresh, the distance from my loved ones so real, the cloud of confusion so thick, it was excruciating. But at the same time, the Lord gave me the assurance that we were not crazy, that something was definitely amiss within PDI, that we had been badly and unscripturally handled. He assured me that He would sort it out in my spirit in time (and He has!), but in the meantime He quite sweetly comforted me that day with the reminder that He understood my feelings of rejection, of feeling despised and even feared by my former church family, because He had been there Himself. He gave me a Scripture in Hebrews. “Let us go to Him, OUTSIDE the camp, bearing the disgrace He bore…” Never before had I felt so OUTSIDE the camp, so disgraced. I literally repeated that passage to myself dozens and dozens of times that day just to make it through. His sweet presence and assurance that I was still His despite loud but unspoken messages to the contrary accompanied me that day. That’s a very vivid memory even to this day, more than 20 years later.
Had opportunity years later to attend another important family event. That time I went with far greater understanding of what had happened to us (though this was still before the blogs were started) and far greater healing from the Lord. It was fantastic! The same atmosphere prevailed, the same judgment was available to be received, but I was FREE! It did not touch me! There in the midst of it, I was able to function completely normally, greet old acquaintences, and not care if they were judging or wondering about my spiritual status. That’s when I knew, I KNEW, I was healed. I was almost giddy with the joy of it! I worshipped God right then and there! Another memory I will never forget.
More years passed and now all of my family members are safely out of SGM, not without much pain and cost, but out nonetheless. I guess I say all that to say, there is an end to the pain, the grief, the disillusionment, … the spiritual attacks wrought because of SGM. Praying this for your famly and especially your dear wife.
Gracie, I still can’t believe some of the insanity of the very little of what you wrote about. I’d like to hear more of your story some day.
Gracie,
Thank you for sharing that. I’m still deep in the midst of such pain with family members who are part of a “christian movement” just as wrong and hurtful as SGM. God knew I needed to hear your words. Thanks again, sweet sister.
FSGP,
I think of you and your wife often and pray for you…glad to hear you “emerged unscathed and giddy.”
AKS, Gracie, Stunned -
As always, thanks! your comments and prayers mean a lot to me.
OUT even when I was IN,
Former SG Pastor
Aw, Kindred. It blesses me greatly to know I said something to encourage you! Good to see you! I had been missing you for awhile over at Survivors. Glad to see you’re back at it. I will pray for your dear family. These things are so hard to bear when we have such a limited time on earth to enjoy one another. Redeem, Lord! Love you, sis.
SGMRefugers,
For 2012 may we all rejoice that Christ Jesus lives in us — and that He came, to set the captives free— Even when His own have been taken captive by the posionous leaven He warned us about. The leaven, the law, and the law-driven Pharisees who ensnare Gods people. Lord, may many many of your people be set free from the leaven that is Sovereign Grace Ministries………..
Lyrics to the song “All HE says I am” by Cody Carnes:
He whispers in my ear— tells me that I’m fearless;
He shares a melody— tells me to repeat it
And it makes me whole — it reminds my soul–
I am all He says I am!
I am all He says I am… I am all He says I am
And He says I am His own.
I was blinded by scales upon my eyes,
He came like a light and burned up all the lies–
Oh, He set me free— He reminded me,
I am all He says I am
Chains are broken — Scales are on the floor;
Truth is spoken— I’m no orphan anymore, no orphan anymore
I am loved—- I am new again
And I am completely free — I’m no slave to sin!
And I’m a saint
I am Righteousness!
And I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
Oh, I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I’m alive!
I am all….He says I am
I am all He says I am…
And He says I am His own