This thread is for you.
Posters-there are no rules. Change the name you normally use if you like. Say whatever you like with no fear of judgment or correction. Say what you want, in any way that you choose. This is our own little no spin zone.
For those who choose to reply to posts, let love rule. No correction allowed here. If you must puke your venom at someone, jump over here and address me. I won’t delete it, so the whole world will be able to behold it’s glory forever. OK, that was over the top. Actually a few thousand people a day for as long as this blog remains.
If I see a hint of “get over it”, or “it’s your fault” in this category, I’ll delete your comment. In Christian love, of course.
Posters, remember what the great theologian William Wallace (played by Mel Gibson) said.
FREEDOM!
June 11th, 2008 at 9:14 am
“Posters, remember what the great theologian William Wallace (played by Mel Gibson) said.
FREEDOM!”
Jim,
WHAT??? Quoting the movie “Braveheart”??? Sheeeesh! Although it IS a good line… and very appropriate!
June 11th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Hey all,
This is my first comment here - so great to find another blog dedicated to seeing broken lives restored! Really really grateful for your effort and your time to do this.
I did post my whole un-edited testimony over on “SGM Survivors” so I won’t re-hash the whole thing. I thought maybe I would use the “Wednesday - Your Story” opportunity to say where I am now. I’m living in a city 100 miles north of Bristol in the UK where I went to the SGM church, and the SGM influence still feels so heavy over my life - because my family go to the church.
They not only go to the church but my family are the sort who make the church their life, their priority and the leaders are advocates before God in their eyes. So I’ve recently been sent a sermon from Covenant Life Church to listen to on “Bitterness” by Grant someone or other - I’m sure it’s a hint that I should be just “getting over it”.
What happened in short to those who don’t know me at all, is that I went to the SGM church in Bristol for 2 years and was “disfellowshipped” from the church. The reason? I became very depressed and began damaging myself because I was struggling with my sexuality and didn’t feel I deserved to be in church.
I was stupid enough to go to the leaders and to tell them my entire story unedited. The leaders imposed 4 “ultimatums” on me that I MUST conform to or they would refuse to help me, and worse things would happen. Those ultimatums involved moving back to my parents home and essentially being under “house-arrest”, as well as cutting off all non-Christian friends.
I may have been depressed and desperate but I knew these ultimatums had absolutely nothing of God about them and everything of human control and authoritarianism. I went back to the leaders and told them I wouldn’t be obeying these “ultimatums”. To say they were shocked was an understatement.
I got yelled at in my face by the care group leader who was there to “support” the senior pastor. (I wasn’t offered the chance to have anyone there to support me). The senior pastor then told me if I walked out the door, I would be “disfellowshipped” and would be “handed over to Satan”. Church members would be told to avoid me and I was banned from all church meetings. Also they would write to every church in Bristol telling them of my “sins”.
(Let me state for the record - I was NOT living in sexual immorality, and made no confession that I was. The senior pastor just “suspected” I was living in sin and admitted he had no proof).
So here I am 3 years later, and I made an attempt to reconcile this issue (pretty much following the Peacemaker suggestions).
My younger sisters were getting baptised at the SGM church and so I emailed the older senior pastor to ask permission for me to go. He emailed back and said I could come, but felt a meeting would be appropriate to “restore a situation that was God-glorifying”.
I emailed back and said I was happy to come to a meeting, but that I would be bringing a pastor friend of mine to support me. I also made the point that while I would ask forgiveness for any bitter feelings I held against them, I wouldn’t be asking forgiveness for what they felt I did - as I still felt I had done nothing wrong. I was surprised to hear nothing more from the SGM pastor - and haven’t to this day.
So I guess my story is that I still feel in no man’s land. My family feel I should email again and ask permission again for some meeting to restore a “God-glorifying” situation - but I still haven’t received a response to my previous email! And of course, I am receiving sermons from Covenant Life Church - the mother ship - about sorting out my bitterness!!
Enuf said … thanks again for this forum!
June 11th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Okay, this isn’t really my story… Jim already shared our personal experience with SGC Titusvile, so I won’t repeat it. (Many of you are jumping for joy right now! You don’t have to read another long post!)
BUT… I do have to share this…
What I watched my husband go through during that time in our lives was very difficult. Knowing there were “problems” that weren’t being dealt with, much less acknowledged, by Tim… well, let me just say it was not easy to sit back and watch it unfold. His obvious lack of care and concern for the issues Jim was bringing to him was bizarre, to say the least.
This is a guy that Jim looked upon as a brother (family, as well as a brother in the Lord), and to see his lackadaisical demeanor towards the matters that were so obviously important to Jim was just unreal. I mean, when someone comes to you and pours out their heart to you, voicing not only personal concerns, but doctrinal error and concern for the road you are walking down as well, do you just blow them off? I hope not.
And Tim’s wife, Kim, who I thought was a very good friend of mine, started calling my other friends wanting to know if I had “spoken poorly of her or the church”. I THOUGHT we were friends… I felt as though she were a member of my family. So why didn’t she call ME and ask me whether I was talking smack? That’s what I would have done… confronted the alleged perpetrator, especially if she was a friend. That’s not what happened.
Methinks the reason it happened that way was more of an underlying factor of wanting to besmirch mine and Jim’s reputation with others, and to ensure that others would think poorly of us.
And then the subtle shunning started. First, it was just Tim and Kim, and the associate pastor and his wife that were acting “weird” around us. Then it spread to the care group leaders and their wives… then the “wanna be leaders”, and so forth and so on. But Jim was told repeatedly that this was not the case, that we weren’t being shunned, that it just was not happening. (Apparently, it was just our imagination. Ummm… yeah.) But it was happening. You can say one thing and do another, happens a lot. If they were angry with us for any perceived gossip and slander that was taking place from mine and Jim’s mouths (which didn’t happen), why not talk to us as friends and fellow Christians? Ask us instead of assuming it was true? And why did they turn their backs on us, becoming incommunicado, instead of giving us a chance to defend ourselves?
My opinion, humbly, of course, is either they were cowardly and afraid to confront us (which I don’t believe to be true), or they had an underlying reason for doing what they did… to get us out of their church and damage our relationships within SGC Titusville. So that we wouldn’t take folks with us and start a new church. Which was never a desire of ours… we were too burnt out by that time to even think about doing something like that, but, also, we didn’t feel that it would be the right thing to do.
Other people have shared similar stories of their experiences at their old SGM churches. Same stuff, different day, only the names are different. I have come to the conclusion that this is modus operandi in SGM churches. It’s too coincidental that the same tactics and techniques used on us have been used on many others in other SGM churches all over the country. Coincidental? I think not. I think it is a widespread and customary maneuver on SGM’s part to “get rid of the perceived problem people within their ranks.” Questioning leadership is not tolerated, even if the questions are valid. That gets you the reputation of being problematic… therefore you must go. Is this biblical? I think not. Is this form of shunning biblical? I think not. Is the non-confrontation from the leadership biblical? I think not. Is the subtle form of the gossip and slander smear campaign the leadership waged against us biblical? I think not.
There needs to be reform in SGM and it’s churches. These things need to change. Not for us… we’ve already been there and done that. It’s for those involved in SGM or thinking of becoming a part of an SGM church.
This is the reality… these things could happen to you. I pray not, but I didn’t think it would ever happen to us, or the hundreds of folks out there, either.
But it did. And it will continue to happen until SGM changes their unbiblical methods.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Did I say you wouldn’t have to read another long post? Okay, I was on a roll and got “just a smidge” out of control. Couldn’t stop myself…
June 11th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Jim and Carole,
Do you think these guys (the pastors) are taught this in the Pastor’s College? Are there any that did not go through the Pastor’s College (sometimes denom’s let you transfer your ordination in)?
I wonder about Tim. On his bio, he’s lived in Titusville for 15 years, but just graduated from the PC in 2000. Since he graduated in 1990 with his undergrad, I am guessing that he pastored before SG (perhaps at that same church in Titusville). Was he that way then? If he was not, then it would seem that he definately got it from the PC.
June 11th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Carole,
One of the things that did the most damage in my own life at SGM was the way the leaders caused me to doubt my own abilities to hear God, or understand a situation. For you and Jim to be shunned and yet be told your were imagining it is weird but a tool of control that I saw in our SGM churches. Good thing you were strong enough in the Lord to see the falseness in what they were saying to you. It took me quite a number of years to finally understand that I HAD seen what I’d seen. I was in PDI/SGM since the young age of 18, and knew no other church. I was truly indoctrinated (though it happened slowly, over time). One day I was in a church that loved Jesus and His people. Several decades later, I was in a church that I didn’t recognize anymore. Yes, it happened that slowly.
I feel for the kids who grow up only knowing SGM, who have no idea they have little freedom in Christ, if any. For those kids, some of whom are now young adults, this site could be an open door to their prison cells. Their emergence into grace-filled lives might happen because of something someone says on this blog. If even one young person is set free to follow Jesus in the grace He bestows, without the bonds of legalism, then sgmrefuge would have truly lived up to its name! So, press on, speaking the truth in love, praying that others will hear and see!
June 11th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Donn,
I know of one pastor, albeit not a senior, that never had to go to the PC.
June 11th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I started an online journal of my journey out of my former SGM church and how difficult it has been for me. I left my SGM church “cold turkey” almost three months ago now after miraculously finding the SGMsurvivors blog online and God opening my eyes.
I am struggling this week. PLease pray for me! When there is more time and strength, I will share my story more. It is all very recent though, and my church was adopted into SGM and was not a church plant. It was adopted in during my time there. I had no idea what I was getting into, as many others can testify.
June 11th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Concerned,
I’ve been praying for you! And will keep praying. Did you get my email?
June 11th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Concerned,
Did you get my email? I sent it yesterday. We’re here for you, girl.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I’m praying too, Concerned.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Hi Donn,
I’ll have to answer your question with a non-answer. I don’t know if this is something that is taught in pastor’s college… there is no syllabus available to the “public” that I can find, anyway. But even if there were, I don’t think we would find “Shunning 101″ or “Heavy-Handed Control and Other Manipulative Tactics” listed on it.
As far as Tim’s history as a pastor… Jim wrote about that in one of his posts telling our story. He was a youth pastor when we met him, then started a church that he was sr. pastor of, which was adopted by SGM, and he subsequently went to pastor’s college.
Although, I don’t know what is taught there, I do know that SGM has leadership conferences and the like for further learning opportunities for their pastors.
I also know that when Tim ran into a “problem”, he always sought advice from the elders above him… giving me reason to think that the advice given him by them was what he walked out. This information increases my belief that these unbiblical practices are taught (and learned)by SGM leadership.
I’m sure Jim will want to add his input later, but I hope I filled in at least some of the info you were seeking!
Grace,
Carole
June 11th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Donn,
I’ve answered many of your questions in my posts. I know that it’s long reading, but only 3 posts.
Regarding the PC-some pastors need to go and some don’t, based on the evaluation of other SGM pastors.
I think it would be very helpful if these pastors and “apostles” actually involved the members of any given candidates current or former church.
These guys are really so above it all, they have no need for input from the “sheep”.
I’ll never understand this mindset, and actions such as these totally cancel out all talk about humility, and makes the well practiced humble demeanor these guys all share a little hard to swallow.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Hi Concerned, (I was wondering about you…)
I know EXACTLY how you are feeling!… and it’s definitely not “fun!” Please know that there are many of us who are carrying you in our hearts during this difficult time of adjustment, and are lifting you up in prayer. But, even more, God is holding you in the palm of His mighty hand!… and there is no better place to be!
He is with you, He will never leave you. Trust Him and follow Him, He will not lead you astray! Keep us posted on how you’re doing… and you can always email me anytime at SGMRefugeATgmailDOTcom.
Hey Canary,
SGM thinking is a long, subtle process. You are “there” before you even realize where “there” is. And I agree with you regarding the SGM young adults… I hope that they find the freedom in the Lord that is there for them. I’ve said it before, but I will say it again… if even one person is helped by this site and those who post here, it will be worth it! Thanks for posting… I always get excited when I look in the “recent posts” section and see anew one from you! Keep ‘em coming!
And Hi Ellie!
And I can’t forget to say “hi!” to my dear, sweet friend Gracie! I can’t tell you guys how much this dear lady has impacted my life! She befriended me and ministered to me, she counselled me and encouraged me, she was quick to lovingly confront and correct me. The amount of time she spent writing me emails is, in itself, amazing! She is a very wise woman who loves God deeply and loves God’s people passionately. I am very blessed, indeed, to have her as my friend! I love you, dear Gracie!
June 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Dan,
Welcome!
I read your story on the SGMSurvivors site a while ago, and it touched my heart and affected me deeply. It has evoked the same response in my heart today as I sat and read it again. Thanks for sharing it here. Keep us posted on your journey… and, it was said in a previous post… man will (and does!) fail us, but God never does!
Praying for you,
Carole
June 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Yesterday I was ready to give a long version of my experiences in PDI/SGM. Today, I feel that I should come at it from a different angle, one that is very personal. Deep breath. Okay, here I go.
When I met my ex-Pastor and his wife, I was very young, only eighteen. I was also a new believer. I came from a broken family. I was raised under a form of legalism, where outward appearance was very important. I was, unknowingly, a prime candidate for the type of practice that became prevalant in “church” - namely, a little grace mixed with alot of rules and expectations. The very night I was baptized and walking in waves of love from the Lord, a brother told me not to get use to those feelings. It was now time for the hard work to begin. I came crashing down from the great heights of communion with God. So, church wasn’t going to be any different from the way I grew up. Well, at least it was familiar. I’d fit right in.
The Pastor and wife that I met began a church in someone’s basement. This was back in the late 70’s when non-denominations were a new thing. The leaders and members were young. With youth comes exhuberance and pride. Somehow, the zeal for God kept our prideful moments in check. We were committed to living a New Testament life, building a community of belivers who would reach out to the lost. Our focus soon drifted from Jesus to building His church. We were eventually adopted by a group known at the time as PDI (later became SGM), led by a very enthusiastic Christian man, Larry Tomzcak. This was around 1983, I think. Everything changed after that.
An “Apostle” was invited to take charge of our little church. The two Elders, men we loved and trusted, were asked to step down. They soon left. Care groups were reorganized. Our Pastor had to step down temporarily, to be proven by this Apostle, who took over everything. A church split followed, as well as church discipline of a few people who did not submit to the new “authority”.
I was married the following year, and my husband and I began our family. A very lonely, dry time followed. It was as though I had been put off into a dessert. My prideful, youthful days were disappearing under the reality of giving myself to my family. It was good for me, yet very lonely.
Over the years, our church began to change. Our Pastor was re-established. Teaching became more about doctrine than Jesus. Grace was preached for the first time, but hardly mentioned again. We were definitely under church rule. A hierarchy was established. Leaders became exclusive. My family moved into a neighborhood next to my husband’s good friend from college and his family. They were in leadership. Before our move, they told us that living near them didn’t mean we could be their best friends, as they had relationships to invest in with leadership. This wasn’t to be the last time we heard this sort of thing.
The Pastor’s time was spent more and more on people being molded for entrance into leadership. Our leaders became a part of a hierarchy where, if you needed a Pastor’s help, you had to go through your CG leader first. Pastors became more isolated from the little guys. They were busy investing their time in the people whom they felt were called to leadership. These people were the ones who showed the most submission, had their family life (at least on the surface) in order, and were tried and tested in loyalty to the upper leaders. Somehow, this made me believe that the only way God would truly be pleased with my husband and myself was if we became CG leaders some day. This meant man-pleasing, which I was very good at, due to my upbringing. There was also fear that we not step outside of the “umbrella of protection” established by our church. If only I had known then that this was mere superstition, as were some of the other practices in church.
Eventually, my husband was asked to lead a care group, although he was warned that a chance was being taken on him. I now realize that it wasn’t a matter of whether he was mature enough in Christ, as much as how loyal he was to leadership - this was the chance being taken. Funny, after we began leading a homegroup, it wasn’t like I imagined. There were people who needed care, but my love was just too small. I didn’t know how to support my husband.
Then, the Lord spoke to my husband about becoming part of a new churchplant down south. When he mentioned it to me, I was horrified. Leave our church, our friends? I had never been anywhere else. These were our people. I hardly new anyone going on the church plant. I had no faith for this.
We went to a conference put together for PDI churches. During worhsip one night, I told the Lord I’d be willing to follow my husband anywhere. The Lord suddenly filled me with faith to go on the church plant. It was complete. I never looked back. So amazing.
Well, our Pastor was agaisnt us moving. He made it clear that he had plans for us. We told him that we had to obey God’s word to us. He was not supportive, but did not try to stand in our way. We left without a church goodbye. The only people who saw us off were a few friends. We had been a part of this group for over ten years, yet left quietly, as though we no longer existed to the Pastor and his wife.
In our new home, we planted ourselves as quickly as possible. I was very insecure in my new environment. Pressure to perform became more overwhelming. Inside of myself, I could hear my heart crying out for something, but for what I did not know. I tried my hardest to meet the expectations placed on women in the church. With five young children under nine, I could never catch up on laundry, cleaning, or serving my husband. Then there were multiple “opportunities” to serve the church. We were actually signed up for different areas of service, such as children’s ministry, without being asked. Life was going in full motion, but I just kept getting much sadder, heavier, and more fearful than ever.
These are some things that I saw: PDI leaders moved from what seemed to be true humility in the Lord into a pride in their knowledge of doctrine. I saw them stop the Holy Spirit from moving amongst the people on several occassions. I saw more emphasis placed on obeying leaders rather than on walking in your own faith. Leaders became more distant. Women who had once been joyful began to look burdened. Their eyes began to show a sort of desperation. I felt that same thing all the time. Surely this isn’t all there was to knowing the Lord? Follow doctrine, tell your sins at care group, bake brownies for some function, be at every meeting (or you felt guilty), feeling guilty because you couldn’t keep up with everything expected of you…at one point our pastor even preached that we should have no junk drawers. Can you imagine a mother of five worrying about her junk drawers? I couldn’t even get the mountain of laundry done!
Now for confession: I do not blame all my dependency on leaders on the church. My heart was also to blame. I wanted a king to rule me, a man to walk my walk of faith. My ego was involved. I wanted to be the best of the best in my Christian walk. I wanted to be like the “holy men” who led us, because then I would be acceptable to God. This wrong thinking enabled my slavery to the rules of men. My need to please these leaders kept me in service to a false gospel. I won’t speak for my husband. This was my failing, completely and utterly mine.
I began to hunger for more of God. I wanted an authentic experience with Him. Church was not enough anymore. I had to have Jesus! My heart began moaning for Him, in the grip of fear and desperation. I could no longer keep up with the SGM machine. I was always falling short. I wanted out.
Now I’m going to share an experience I don’t speak of often. If you are a cessationist, you probably want to skip this part. One morning, as I was on my knees in my room, praying desperately for more of Jesus, I had a deep experience. Suddenly, it felt like Jesus was in the room with me. He was sitting on His throne, looking down at me with great sympathy but a mighty sternness. If I could have fallen through the floor, I would have. I could tell that He knew what was in my heart. I was Pharasee, a legalist, a person without the knowledge of grace. I began to cry and tremble. I don’t know how long we sat together. For days after, I walked around saying, “Who can stand before God?” I was totally undone. I was made to look into God’s cup of wrath, yet not made to drink. This was my Isaiah experience. Truly, who can stand before God?
This went on for about a week. One night, I was watching a “Matthew” video. I got to the end, where the actor playing Jesus looks straight into the camera and smiles a beautiful, complete smile of love and acceptance. Tears streamed down my face as I rewound over and over to see that smile. The Lord had looked at me sternly, shown me His cup of wrath, kept me from drinking of it, then smiled at me with total acceptance and love. My heart overflowed with joy. I was forgiven. Jesus paid the price. I would never suffer God’s wrath!
I have to go now to a doctor’s appt. I will finish this story later tonight or tomorrow.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Dan,
Thank you so much for posting. I’m reluctant to comment when people tell their stories-Carole is so much better at it.
Let me just say that I’m deeply affected, and so grateful to God for your faithfulness, and His faithfulness to you!
June 11th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
P.S. God didn’t put me into a “dessert” but into a “desert”. Just thought I’d clarify…I have images of myself swimming in chocolate and whip cream!
June 11th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Hey Canary!
What a story! It doesn’t surprise me, but that doesn’t make it any less heart wrenching. Can’t wait to hear the rest!
OH!… thanks for clarifying the “dessert” statement… I WAS wondering about the “dessert” you had been put off into.
I was thinking something chocolate-y… didn’t sound too bad to me! 
(Seriously, I knew what you meant… the old typing fingers sometimes do that to me, too!)
June 11th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Thanks Jim and Carole so much for your kind words! It’s so stupid isn’t it, there’s still a part of me that hits “Publish” and then is almost too scared to come back and look to see what is said, just in case its’s “SGM-like”!!
Sue, thanks so much also for your wonderful lovely comments. Again - it meant so much. I will definately consider that idea of asking my pastor-friend Pete to contact them direct. That would be interesting to see what happens and how they respond to him!
I must admit the temptation is to follow the testimony of that young guy - how my heart goes out to him! My non-Christian friends are so accepting and so loving and cannot understand the tension and the trauma and why I carry on fighting. It’s so sad to look within the church and just see defeat and cold celibacy and misery. There’s no hope, optimism, talk of a loving Father who gives strength to triumph!
Thanks again everyone so much!!
June 11th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Carole,
Thanks for your encourgement. For some reason, posting what I did took alot out of me. I think I’ll wait until later to finish. I’m still not quite comfortable getting “vulnerable” with others. There were too many times where vulnerability at SGM was very costly. Thanks for giving us all a safe place to post.
I think I’ll go eat some chocolate…hee-hee
Sue,
Have you ever posted under a different name, or are you new? Good advice that you gave Dan. I, too, wondered if he was able to get help from loving Christians. His situation is a little tougher than some of ours, because he still has family involved in SGM. What a lot of pressure that must be!
Is the Matthew actor doing the book of John right now? Wow, I want to know when that comes out. He was so able to capture the joy that is in Jesus. Before that, the only Jesus you ever saw in movies was somber and mystic. Bruce M. made Jesus into a real man, someone we could understand and relate to. To see Jesus full of laughter and joy truly changed my heart.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Dan,
Hugs to you from across the pond. You have to believe that none of us are going to respond to your posts with anything but love and understanding. We want to help you find truth in Jesus, and we will not condemn you. Let me ask you this: if it was 2000 years ago when Jesus visited the earth, would he have found you hanging out with the Pharasees and Sadducees, or with the tax collectors and prostitutes? The first group might seem more religious and noble, but they rejected and slandered our Lord. The second group became disciples, apostles, and martyrs. They were received by Jesus even before they repented and changed. They took the gospel to the nations. Which group do you relate to more? I suspect the latter. Alot of us who left SGM do. We know our flaws, our sins, our unworthiness, yet we know we’ve been received by Christ. He is in the process of making us like Himself. Leave the Pharasees behind, Dan. Unless God opens their eyes, they will never understand. Be devoted to Jesus, allow Him to change you into the man of God you are suppose to be. You can go back to your friends and be a light. Who knows how many of them have only heard a false gospel? You can bring them the truth, as God changes you. I hope I haven’t stepped out of bounds by saying these things to you. I am by no means a counselor or therapist or pastor. But I feel an intensity about what you’re going through. Devote yourself to Jesus alone, become like Him by the power of His Holy Spirit. Then, everything else will fall into place as it was meant to.
Okay, now I’m going to shut up and go eat my chocolate.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
In a ‘nut shell’ conversion mid 70″s .. Heavily influenced by Derek Prince,and some of the spiritual gift teaching God was giving the church through the charismatic episcopal movement in the pacific northwest at the time. Then jumped in pretty heavily through non- denominational/pentecostal churches and the shepherding movement. Then Earl Paulk influences, then Word of Faith with Haggin and Copeland,Hicky,Price,then more shepherding with some AG influences and ministry application some Wilkerson and Teen Challenge and Calvary Chapel.
Augh…so I wander into a SG after attending a PCA for a few years and see quickly what I had left prior in all those other places exhibiting itself in a SG and knew right away that there was abuse going on.
I have had some difficulty trying to explain this. It’s not the charismatic gifting excesses that is the problem because SG doesn’t exercise those gifts like I have seen in my previous churches but what they do share is the ‘moses model’,apostolic covering/ shepherding stuff that is wrong. Another HUGE problem is SG’s patriarchy which is nowhere to be found in New Testament teaching,this they share with PCA though.
That’s why my initial comment when you started this blog that these abuses go FAR beyond just SG. It is rampant in most charismatic congregations that I have been to and it stems from the “Florida 5″. It is still infiltrating the church and it is a HUGE ERROR,that and the fact that true apostolic authority no longer exists today. Gifting “yes”,position/office
“no.”
Seriously brainwashing is what is happening. People are being discipled wrong right from the start and there are serious ‘cracks’ in the foundation.
My ideal church would be the following:
1. Cal-minian
2. Genuine encouragement and exercising of spiritual gifting with HEALTHY oversight.
3. EGALITARIAN leadership in churches and marraiges.
4. Strong mercy ministrys with more emphasis from John Perkins and christian community development applications.
5. Ditch the pulpit driven ministry only. EVERYONE has something to share. Oversight by elders NOT pastor(s)
6. Freedom to move around and work with other churches and ministries and not be told your in rebellion.
7. Lastly psych evals of church leadership and accountability to the congregation of the direction the church is heading.
8 Lastly if it is to be pulpit driven then not to expect or put pressure on a pastor to stay in the position longer than 7 years if he does not desire
Hope I didn’t freak anybody out to badly. But that is my story and it’s real. And painful,alot of it. But I still love Jesus and am glad I got out of alot of it. Sad thing now is I struggle where to go. It’s like I know too much now.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
One more thing. Dan I am sorry for your pain. Another thing SG shares with all of my other screwed up cult like churches is the lack of education in both theology and counseling from people who have no business being in alot of the positions they are in.You were given BAD direction.. There are other ministries that deal specifically with some of your past history. I would try there. God bless you though for your attempts at still trying to break bread with SG ‘christians’.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Carole,
Thank you for your very kind words. I love you too!
Canary,
I totally understand that posting your story took a lot out of you. I can easily relate to the scenario you went through with PDI and the areas where the Lord showed you to repent. Our stories are very similar. I had not realized that before. Thank you for your willingness, not only to expose the PDI/SGM errors you experienced, but also to be transparent with your own shortcomings in the whole process. Humility is a lovely quality.
Dan,
There is something very precious about you. Grace to you as you “carry on fighting.” You are in our prayers.
Sonya,
Wow, you have seen it all! I’m glad you still love Jesus. I can relate to the struggle to find a church and the seen-too-much, know-too-much feeling. Still trying to “land” somewhere myself.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Hi Everyone!
Our power has been out all afternoon (for 6 hours… SIX!.. in Florida… in June… I realized I am so spoiled with my electronic everything! But especially my AC and my internet access. Can you say much conviction was taking place today?… amid the grumbling and complaining, of course! ;-)) The power was just restored moments ago… YAY! So we are back in business.
(I must admit that as soon as the electricity came on, Jim and I both ran… yes, literally RAN for our computers! Is there any hope for us?!?!) 
Dan… Thanks for coming back!
This truly is a safe place and besides, you are “family.”
Canary… I know how emotionally draining telling your story can be. It brings back so many memories. But, I have to say (having “known you through your posts for a while now), it’s very evident that God has brought you a long, long way! But take your time, as long as you want. We’ve settled in and we’re gonna be here for a while!
Sonya… Thanks for sharing your story and your thoughts. The shepherding movement is alive and well, using different terminology, of course. But as they say… “A rose is a rose…” Looking forward to hearing more from you!
In Him
Carole
June 11th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Carole,
FL in June with no air conditioning - yuck. Here in the mountains of CO it is a cool 50 something. I don’t think summer wants to start!
Sonya,
Interesting take on the Shepherding movement. Why is it we so easily give up our freedom in Christ to follow men/women who claim to speak for God? That question could start a whole, new topic!
June 12th, 2008 at 12:36 am
{{{{{{{{{{{Dan}}}}}}}}}}}
Love you, sweetie!!
{{{{{{Canary}}}}}}}}}}
Thanks for sharing, Sonya and Sue!
Carole and Jim, glad you got your power back!! Stay cool!
June 12th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I’m going to finish up what I started yesterday. Thanks to all of you for listening. Though it is hard to speak of, I want others out there under authoritarian church rule to see how different their lives can be when they recover their freedom in Christ.
After my Isaiah-like experience, I began to hunger for the Lord. I read alot of Andrew Murray books. My bible became fresher to me. My friend, who was going through a similar experience, would call me and we’d talk for long periods of time. We were fellowshipping in a way I hadn’t really known before.
For a period of about two months, I began missing church meetings due to sick children. My husband began to notice that I was growing in grace. When I’d go to a meeting, I would stumble into the old fears and expectations. He began to see that I did better spiritually when I was away from SGM. That began to puzzle and intrigue him.
A time of refreshing came to our church. Sundays would find men, women, and children going to the front of the theatre where we met, praying and weeping. My husband and oldest son were among those. Though they both found it difficult to speak of what was happening to them, my husband and son experienced definite heart changes because the Holy Spirit touched them. They, too, began to want more of Jesus.
All too soon, the SP stopped the times of refreshing. When asked, our CG leader said the SP decided that it wasn’t the direction he wanted our church to go in. The Holy Spirit’s moving amongst us was no longer welcome. Now, understand that there were no abuses that I could see, just sincere people being touched by God. Still, it was not what the SP wanted to happen.
At the same time, women were going off to have their own CG meetings, and men to theirs. The first few times our little group of women met, we bonded through prayer, confession, and love. There was such beauty in the way the Lord was bringing us together. Suddenly, the freedom we experienced was taken away. We were given lists of sins to talk about at the meetings. No longer was the Holy Spirit free to move. We were put into a strangle hold. My friend and I labored over the cg questions, trying to answer honestly, but it felt so forced. It just wasn’t real. My husband became involved as he saw how stressed out I would become over going to a women’s meeting. He saw that the grace I was newly walking in was being squashed by the forced sin-digging. Our whole church was becoming like this. Every meeting was about our sin. The freedom, the love of God, the hope began to drain away. We heard hardly anything about Jesus. The focus was more and more on doctrine and the cross, our sin nature, etc. Our souls were so hungry for more of Jesus. It became apparent that there was a real problem.
We and two other couples met with the leadership. We truly loved and respected one of these men, whom we’d known for years. Imagine our surprise and dismay to find that he was defensive, impatient, and even angry because we had questions about why he stopped the Holy Spirit from moving in our church. I looked at these leaders and realized that they had no love for us. You could tell that they’d been through these kind of meetings before. They had an agenda. It turned out to be, follow their vision for the church, or go somewhere else. I knew suddenly that I was free of these false shepherds. They had no real interest in my soul, only my obedience to them. My husband felt the same way.
Of course, the SP would disagree with our point of view. We know what we saw and heard that night. It caused us to flee this church like the hounds of hell were on our heels. If we had remained, we would have lost our focus on Christ. We would have sold Him out for doctrine, church building, and sin-digging. I’m sorry, but that sort of focus just doesn’t satisfy the hungry soul.
During the years after we left, we became part of a small house church of other ex-sgmers. For three or four years, we helped each other heal. Two of the men were saved and baptized. So were some of our children. I did enter into a time of depression as the Lord re-educated me. There was so much about Him that I did not know, so many misperceptions. He was faithful to walk me through, partly because of the grace that my husband constantly showed me. It was as though all my plate spinning ceased to exist. The plates fell to the floor and shattered. The house was never clean, the laundry never finished, meals were sparce…I just couldn’t funtion. I questioned everything I’d been taught. Yet still, my husband patiently encouraged me, releasing me from all expectations. Through his actions, I learned the truth about God’s abundant grace. Eventually, I was able to serve my family again.
I also learned, during more difficult times, about God’s goodness. During one of my more fearful moments, I heard the Lord ask, “Don’t you believe in My goodness?” After 20 years of faithful attendance and involvement in an SGM church, I looked up at the sky with a frown and answered the Lord. “I don’t know what that means, Lord. I don’t understand.”
So He proceeded to show me. I went through a serious health crisis that continued for about five months. During the hospital trips, Dr.’s visits, and testing, I saw the Lord meet my needs at every turn. When I was afraid, He got to the hospital before me. He put angels called nurses into my life at just the right moments. When I had to have an MRI, and was terrified of being enclosed in the machine, the Lord gave me courage. I laid down on the bed, and it was rolled into the MRI machine. The minute I got inside, the Lord was already there. He communed with me during the 25 minutes of my isolation. He spoke of me becoming like a butterfly leaving its cocoon. He made special promises to me that I still hold close to my heart.
After surgery and weeks of recovery, I began to see how the Lord had changed me. I could now say to Him, “Yes, Lord. I do believe in your goodness.”
In 2006, my husband and I, along with our five kids and multiple animals, relocated to the mountains of CO. We are beginning to know the body of Christ in this little community, though we have not committed to one church alone. We know that we are waiting for something that the Lord wants to give. I continue to walk in grace. I have learned how to love. When I fall short of love, I know where to go to get a re-filling. I trust in God’s goodness, now. I walk in the freedom that the Lord has given me, yet I do not desire to sin. I have found that the more love the Lord stirs in me for Him, the less I want to hurt Him by doing wrong. It is grace that keeps me, not passion for doctrine or unquestioning obedience to a group of leaders.
When my husband pointed me to the SGMSurvivor’s blog, I was dismayed, alarmed, and yet comforted by the many similar stories being told about the controlling spirit of SGM. Somehow, after eleven years of being away from them, I had come to hope that things had changed for the better. It seems they have changed for the worse. I am so sorry to hear that. If the leaders won’t listen after the mountain of times their wrong behavior has been addressed, then maybe the people will. It is foolish to blindly follow a group or a man without any faith of your own. It is a travesty to relinquish your freedom in Christ. He shed His blood to give you that! My husband has said that, one day, we will all stand alone before the Lord. We won’t have our pastor, our cg leader, or our accountablity partner beside us. We will stand or fall based on our own faith. Before we can be a church, we must be our own, individual temples where Christ is revered. The bride that Jesus is returning for will not be a blind follower of men and traditions. He is looking for the bride who has filled her lamp with oil, is waiting expectantly, keeping fully awake until her Bridegroom comes. That is the sort of church I want to be a part of.
Sorry for the length of this post. I have to admit that it is nice to be finished. It’s not easy to go back and stir up old memories like these. However, if anyone receives ears to hear and eyes to see because of reading this, then it’s worth the effort. God’s favor and spiritual blessing be with you all.
June 12th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Sue,
In reference to post #32, you’ve hit it on the head. You could write a book!
June 12th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
No. I want nothing to do with emergent. It’s repackaged liberal protestanism with new age and aspects of catholicism thrown in.
sorry for the harshness. I attend a reformed church for now that is not spirit filled.I will stay there for now.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Regarding emergent/emerging, Mark Driscol does a good job (from his perspective) outlining the 4 lanes of the emerging church. he would define “emergent” as the liberal, 4th lane, and speaks from experience, as he used to be affiliated with the current leaders. You won’t agree with everything he says, but it is an accurate overview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58fgkfS6E-0
June 12th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Sue said:
“It’s so Old Covenant to be focused on sin and really what SG teaches is the spirit of anti-Christ.”
It took me a while to understand this. No wonder I always felt so overwhelmed and discouraged. NOBODY can keep the whole law perfectly. The law was given to show our need for a Savior. Christ fulfilled the law within our hearts. We are no longer under law, but under grace. Paul wrote: “For I through the Law have myself died to the Law and all the Law’s demands upon me, so that I may live to and for God” Gal. 2:19.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Hi All!
Canary, Thank you so much for sharing the rest of your story! I know how painful it is to re-visit these hurtful times in our lives… I truly do appreciate your courage to post it here, and that you feel comfortable and safe enough here to open up your heart and your life to us. Thank you!
BUT!… How encouraging is the rest of your story!!!
How faithful God has been and how gracious, kind and loving He shows Himself when we are “allowed” to hear His sweet, still voice for ourselves, without a mediator (meaning SGM). THAT’S the part of your story that I will read again and again! How great is GOD!!!
June 12th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Canary…
“We are no longer under law, but under grace.”
Amen, Sister!!
June 12th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
“….So today after examining my heart for any trace of self-righteousness, any hint of moral superiority in my soul, I have prayed that God would use these circumstances to obtain the attention of Sovereign Grace Ministries, I pray that God would strategically provide individuals to care for these men at this time and share the gospel ….
(http://www.sovereigngraceministries.com/Blog/post/Reflections-on-Super-Bowl-XLII.aspx)
Yuk… All right, never mind. I thought those words were sanctimonious the first time I read them, and since I was never good at imitating El Premo doctrinal Mover and Shaker C. J. Mahaney, all those years ago I won’t start now.
But it does seem like there should be some grand spiritual divine intro to the start of every story. These stories on this blog are grave tidings. They are solemn and sobering testimonies. And I know why we think it important to hope for great and virtuous things: repentance, reform, revelation.
However, in my mind, some broader appeal to divine virtue is useless. SGM will not see any pronouncement of pure motive sufficient to what folk on this blog are saying. By default they believe ANY criticism of their methods and practice are a moral failing on the part of the critic AT BEST! At worst they believe the critic to be in divine sedition.
So I will dispense with the pretense. My comments about SGM and its leadership are what they are: a scathing criticism of Spiritual Tyranny.
The hardest part of talking about PDI/CLC/SGM experience is it is an EVENT that takes place around some of the most personal stuff. By EVENT I mean a long standing progression of interaction. There is never a single moment, one deciding action where the victim can point and say: “yup, right there, that is the bad thing I’m talking about.”
The abuse and tyranny occurs largely in private about things most folk would like to keep private. To get the conflict you need the details—often embarrassing details. While most people find the details of their life interesting, everybody else finds them tedious or scandalous. So how do you tell a story that has lots of UGLY, lots of NECESSARY, but oh so boring details?
Told well or poorly what follows is my attempt.
(Queue Violin music)
I came to the then PDI/CLC a mess: an intemperate, impatient, seriously depressed, 25 year old with a catastrophically flawed marriage, and a life that just wasn’t working. I did what everyone does when they are in pain. I went to find help.
Forgive me for mixing pronouns but the story proceeds for a bit as a WE (Think wife and me) initial efforts at help were pretty good. Bob Hoover—then pastor within CLC—was even handed in his frank commentary of my failings and my wife’s at the same time being very compassionate. (I know Bob, you don’t like it when I give you credit. I know they frown in your direction when I speak well of you. Heheh… I won’t tell them of our secret meeting if you don’t.)
For reasons of internal CLC organization we were given over to robin boysvert It got ugly from there. SGM leaders enter all counseling sessions with some hard and fast assumptions. There is not enough space to ferret out each in this post, but robin went down the list of assumptions and tried attaching them to me and my motives and just missed. When I pointed out he was off base, he began with the “don’t you trust us?” “If you don’t why are you here?” line. And when that didn’t cow me he tried to run over me with Theology. And he never expected me to talk that language at all, let alone with detail. And then I got the classic dismissal: “John you are proud. John you are arrogant.”
(rising crescendo)
If I was hurt before, this was flatly crushing. In another place and another time, I probably would have blown it off. Indeed, I’d suffered plenty of criticism from quarters that most folk could not dream by the time I was 25. But at that point in life I’d hit my limits.
I heard the appeals from the pulpit to emulate the Ken Sande book: come redress grievances. So I took it at face value. I wrote CJ a letter and told him of my experience.
If I thought robin was impatient with dissent … (snort)
OK… see you need details don’t you.
CJ began with telling me he and robin had talked. CJ had the very same assumptions about me and his approach to counseling was strikingly similar. I didn’t agree with robins assessment much, so I certainly didn’t agree with El Premo doctrinal mover and shaker. When I didn’t immediately accept his take on my attempt at reconciliation, he trotted out the: “don’t you trust us?” “If you don’t, why are you here?” litany. And then he tried the Theology stuff, but only briefly. And then when it didn’t cow me, I got the “John you are proud. John you are arrogant.”
Hummm… if you don’t see the pattern emerging just yet, don’t feel bad. I didn’t either. But I did get a free copy of the Ken Sande book: a little better than a stuffed bear I suppose.
Anyway, did WE (me AND wife) walk out the door? Did we toss our indignant hands in the air because we’d not been told what our itching ears wanted to hear? Nope. See, the other part of the SGM dynamic is they do Christian stuff really well. They do the industry of Church REALY well. And CJ is stone cold funny and when he’s not trying so hard he has great social commentary. And they give you every opportunity to believe they are the only game in town; and aren’t you oh so fortunate to have found such a thing. Isn’t it a privilege? Aren’t PDI/CLC leader’s men of such great character. Isn’t it better that they value true spiritual things. Isn’t it a wonder: God led you HERE!
The SGM spiritual elitism is soooo very infectious: it is a heady tonic. (Drink deep at your own risk)
Six or seven years past in my time at CLC/PDI. In the beginning I drank deep of the CJ mojo juice. (I know, they think I never really tried to fit in, but that would be them wrong about me … AGAIN.) The details of those seven years would be the boring parts. I discuss the length and breadth of this dynamic in my book Blight in the Vineyard: Getting Free of the Myths and Tyrannies of Sovereign Grace Ministries. (It is in post-production now I am working diligently to get it in paperback form.) But the pattern above proved to be set in stone.
(theme song from Star Wars: Darth Vader entrance)
What is the pattern?
First, SGM leaders kibitz amongst themselves about counseling sessions. Have a conversation with ANYBODY in leadership and the whole bunch will know most of the issue.
SGM leaders approach all conversations with entrenched expectations. They expect everyone to emulate the PDI/CLC/SGM Method and Manner.
Disagree with their pastoral assessment. They try to manipulate: “don’t you trust us?”
When that doesn’t pause your objections they trot out the Reformed Theology primer. And oh dear lord, do not even hint that you believe their doctrine is wrong (particularly if you are a mere woman). They are so sure they got all the right answers that you can not possibly have been as thorough as they. CJ has been given a greater measure after all.
And if that doesn’t make you nice and compliant, and supplicating, and solicitous, and subservient—opps a servant, they accuse you of character failing—pride and arrogance.
And if none of that works…. They just nod toward the door and say “maybe you should start your own church.”
It is my experience they LOVE the Matthew 18 ethic as long as YOU are reconciling to THEM.
Every conflict I had at PDI/CLC followed this progression. CJ, robin boysvert, John Loftness, Ken Moresco and a half a dozen bit players. Every one. And every conflict I observed followed that same path.
Coincidence? Read the rest of these stories and you tell me…
Since I can’t emulate CJ worth a hoot here is what I pray: God, have these men live and not die. Open the eyes of their understanding to the gospel of the Anointed one and His Anointing: that removes burdens and destroys yokes, and sets at liberty them who are captive…. but hey God, could you wait a while… they give me so much to write about: spiritualtyranny.com!
June 12th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
John,
I’m a fan. I love reading what you write, no matter what your topic of choice may be. Thank you for posting!
Ok- I have 2 issues:
1)I’m holding on to hope for reform.
2) Your post was far too brief.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Hey John!
I agree with Jim!
And your insights are right on the money… Thanks for posting, and we are looking forward to more (MUCH more :-)) from you!
June 12th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
John said:
“And oh dear lord, do not even hint that you believe their doctrine is wrong (particularly if you are a mere woman).”
John,
You hit that one on the head. I didn’t realize how condescending these men could be towards us women until after we left. Then, memories of tongue-in-cheek remarks, ways of looking at us, and even ignoring things we said came flooding back. Oh, that’s why they looked at me like that! Oh, that’s why I felt like I was just patted on the head and told to “shoo”. I find it sort of funny, now. Let them try that today on this woman and (respectfully) I’d give them an ear full. But don’t get me started.
Carole,
You are so sweet. God is good and God is love. And I “feel” the love on this blog. Wish we lived closer to each other!
Jim,
I, too, hope for reform in SGM. This might seem nieve, but I have never believed that my ex-leaders meant to harm anyone. I think they are blind to their actions. Their knowledge puffs them up. Their passion for doctrine has replaced their passion for Jesus. If the Lord could change Saul to Paul, He can change anyone. So we keep hoping.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Canary,
I wouldn’t mess with ya!
I wish we lived closer, too! Wouldn’t it be nice to visit over coffee with the others? A friend of mine (Gracie) and I have expressed this same sentiment… and also how cool it is of God to knit hearts together over the internet! Who would have thunk… but OH! how thankful I am that He is doing just that!! I appreciate you all so much!
June 12th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Carole,
Gracie and I email back and forth. She’s a gem. Do you guys know each other, are you in the same town?
June 12th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
She is a gem!!
She has reached out to me and impacted my life so much with her wisdom and her grace. (Her “name” is very appropriate, doncha think?!?)
No we don’t live near each other… I wish we did, though!… I would LOVE to visit with all of you in person. THAT would be so fun!! (Email is better than nothing, though.)
How are you doing, post-story writing? I’ve been thinking about you today… it’s tough to re-live the SGM days and actually write it out. You are a champ in my book!
June 13th, 2008 at 7:30 am
Hello to all,
I am a first time poster on this site, I have posted quite a bit on the other blog. I am jumping on the bandwagon here, wasn’t planning to, but I really sense the love and genuine care and concern going on here, and I feel like I am in a much better place than I was at the start of the other blog and thought it would be a good thing to share a bit of my journey. Jim and Carole, you are bold and I appreciate the truth you share and the way you are pursuing love and honest care on this blog. It is very refreshing!! Many blessings to you both! I will be back to share my story later! Grace to you all!
June 13th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Lydia! Welcome!
Thank you for your kind words… we DO have a passion for God and His people, especially those who have been hurt by SGM churches. We’ve been there. We know how it feels. And we know that it is biblically wrong. For Jim and I, it would have been wrong to sit back and not speak out against the unbiblical teachings of this movement. There are too many people lying around, broken and wounded, and we just couldn’t turn our backs and go on, selfishly, with our own lives, unaffected by that.
Having said that, we have absolutely no expectations from anyone here to post anything they don’t want to, or feel led by God to post. It truly is a safe place. No pressure!
SGMSurvivors is a great site! Kris and Guy have been an agent of God in my life to help bring me to the place I’m at now. I will be forever thankful to them for their courage to start their blog and to give us (ex-SGMer’s) a forum to speak about our experiences and to find each other. I hold them near and dear to my heart.
Looking forward to hearing more from you! I hope you will find this to be a place of refuge, hope, and love!
Carole (AKA I Survived SGM on the SGMSurvivors site… just thought I’d throw that in, as some of you have been quite surprised to find out that I am one and the same… don’t know if that helps or hurts… LOL!)
June 13th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Thanks Carole, (I mean I survived SGM)
I am grateful for you and for Guy and Kris! This is no easy thing you all have taken on, but I am sure you will be empowered by God’s grace to go forward as He leads you!! I feel no pressure whatsoever to post, but like you feel compelled to share because I too cannot sit back and support what SGM is doing to many lives! I long to see them be set free and the leaders to truly see the extent of damage being done and repent and start preaching the pure Gospel of Grace boldly and truly!!!!!!!! They are not doing that currently. Like Canary said it’s a bit of grace and lot “to do’s”. Anyway, when I get time I will share my brief story!!! Much Grace, and many blessings to all who read here!!
June 13th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Lydia,
Jim and I have much hope for SGM, too! They have many good things going for them, but have taken it to an extreme level, which God never intended, and, in a lot of their teachings, have totally stepped out of “biblicalness” (is that even a word???) and are living an abusive, cultish lifestyle and expecting their members to adopt it and live it.
But I continue to hope and pray for reform within the ranks of SGM leadership… after all, God is a very, very big God!… He saved me and changed me… He can change SGM, too!
I can’t wait to hear more from you… and to get to know you better and better as we build this little “community” here.
Grace and Peace,
Carole
June 13th, 2008 at 10:48 am
What alarms me of late about SGM is that, when I post my story (soon, I hope) you will see that it took place twenty years ago. Canary’s exit from SGM was 11 years ago. Jim and Carole’s exit was 2 years ago. And Concerned left three months ago. These four stories are just a small sampling of the numerous stories told on the survivors blog that span two decades or more. It is alarming how similar my story is to everyone else’s and that the same abuses have continued for so long. Some of the things Canary’s pastors said to her are EXACTLY the same things we were told, though we were in different parts of the country with different pastors at the helm.
This confirms again what I have long suspected. The authoritarian structure, the emphasis on sin, the tactics regarding how to deal with “problem” members MUST be taught from above. As I have said before (somewhere?), when we disagreed and confronted our PDI leader, there was a system already set in place to very quickly “deal” with us.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Gracie,
EXACTLY!
This is why we must bring this into the light of the public square.
If this was just a “Jim & Tim” issue, I’d handle that in a much different way.
What we talk about here are clearly SGM distinctives.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Gracie, Canary, Ellie - thanks for your prayers, didn’t get all the emails though!
Canary has my private email if you guys want it. Things going better and then they fall apart. The enemy is really trying to discourage me, then one minute I have crazy thoughts of returning, then God speaks and says RUN! It’s been strange. But He is keeping me focused on himself. Leaving an SGM church is the hardest thing I have ever done spiritually. Amazing how even our leaving is testimony to how jacked up the methodology of these churches are. To cause such a reaction in us emotionally and spiritually, it’s been a wild ride.
June 13th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Carole asked Canary:
“How are you doing, post-sto